Prince Harry

20togo said:
so why does he need to "flee the country" for security reasons if it's a just routine part of his daily life? He claims to want to live the quiet life yet what he is doing really only brings more attention on him!
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I think that’s quite complicated…

First of all he didn’t just leave the country for security reasons, there are other factors..

1. Security
2. Avoid the British Press
3. Take the heat out of the Meghan / Kate comparisons

It is more difficult for them to be off the radar in a small, densely populated country like the U.K… Much easier to do so in a large country like the US..

Secondly, I’m not sure they are looking for ‘the quiet life’… They’ve been pretty clear that they want to continue to work and in particular use their status to support the causes that are important to them.

Of course things didn’t exactly play out as planned. Instead of it calming down, his family have continued to leak to the press for their own benefit, instead of allowing the situation to calm down…. Ultimately that has resulted In Harry & Meghan kicking back and taking action to set the record straight.

Keep poking a bear and eventually you’re gonna get a mauling…
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I think that’s quite complicated…

First of all he didn’t just leave the country for security reasons, there are other factors..

1. Security
2. Avoid the British Press
3. Take the heat out of the Meghan / Kate comparisons

It is more difficult for them to be off the radar in a small, densely populated country like the U.K… Much easier to do so in a large country like the US..

Secondly, I’m not sure they are looking for ‘the quiet life’… They’ve been pretty clear that they want to continue to work and in particular use their status to support the causes that are important to them.

Of course things didn’t exactly play out as planned. Instead of it calming down, his family have continued to leak to the press for their own benefit, instead of allowing the situation to calm down…. Ultimately that has resulted In Harry & Meghan kicking back and taking action to set the record straight.

Keep poking a bear and eventually you’re gonna get a mauling…
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nope, don't buy into that country business one bit. You're making excuses.The interest in the Royals is massive in the US. And no doubt, their press and media can be just as scathing as ours. But hey no, California is their chosen place. Anything to do with Meghan and her profile over there perhaps. Keeping her relevant. But of course, leaks are only going one way.

And yep, you're right. Remind me, who is he bear?
 
20togo said:
nope, don't buy into that country business one bit. You're making excuses.The interest in the Royals is massive in the US. And no doubt, their press and media can be just as scathing as ours. But hey no, California is their chosen place. Anything to do with Meghan and her profile over there perhaps. Keeping her relevant. But of course, leaks are only going one way.

And yep, you're right. Remind me, who is he bear?
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You don’t buy into it ?

Harry was riding around California on an open top bus at one point 😉 It’s pretty evident from the Netflix series that they have been able to find some sanctuary… Though as he himself has said , they have had to keep on the move…

I think you also have to look at what might be a routine security threat and then the threat that was being generated (at the time) through the British Press whipping up the anti-Meghan sentiment.

From Meghan’s perspective the US is familiar territory. They are able to pursue their career and cause based goals over there…. The public are generally much more supportive of them etc…

I really don’t see the issue or the aggressive hatred that seems to emanate from people towards the couple.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You don’t buy into it ?

Harry was riding around California on an open top bus at one point 😉 It’s pretty evident from the Netflix series that they have been able to find some sanctuary… Though as he himself has said , they have had to keep on the move…

I think you also have to look at what might be a routine security threat and then the threat that was being generated (at the time) through the British Press whipping up the anti-Meghan sentiment.

From Meghan’s perspective the US is familiar territory. They are able to pursue their career and cause based goals over there…. The public are generally much more supportive of them etc…

I really don’t see the issue or the aggressive hatred that seems to emanate from people towards the couple.
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Jeez, it's not me that's being manipulated, it's you.
 
20togo said:
Jeez, it's not me that's being manipulated, it's you.
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Ah OK… Of course, because the British Press are renowned for their integrity 😂

If most people are really, really honest with themselves, then they’d acknowledge that they are coming at this from an initial prejudiced perspective…

That prejudice has been borne out a sustained campaign waged by the British Press.

The public are being led by the nose, told how to think, told how to react, groomed to buy the pantomime villain / racial, national, class & gender based stereotyping.

To my mind you can either see that or you can’t… I’m yet to see an argument on this thread that isn’t rested in that prejudice.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Ah OK… Of course, because the British Press are renowned for their integrity 😂

If most people are really, really honest with themselves, then they’d acknowledge that they are coming at this from an initial prejudiced perspective…

That prejudice has been borne out a sustained campaign waged by the British Press.

The public are being led by the nose, told how to think, told how to react, groomed to buy the pantomime villain / racial, national, class & gender based stereotyping.

To my mind you can either see that or you can’t… I’m yet to see an argument on this thread that isn’t rested in that prejudice.
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let's go round again. I think we've much covered the content of your last para. Numerous times.
 
20togo said:
right here we go.

your 1st quote. It's about how we word things. "take issue with him". I wouldn't say it like that. More that I disagree with how he's going about it. Call it splitting hairs if you want. I'd question if he is being genuine when he talks about reconciliation because for me and for the reasons I've mentioned numerous times before he's going about it the wrong way.

your 2nd quote. Well he's the first to do it, isn't he? Excluded or kept secret? Well I've pretty much offered my opinion on this enough times already. He's doing his dirty washing in public. For me, he's not interested in reconciliation at this point in time. It's all about attack, attack attack and he knows full well that he's distancing himself from his family even more. For what? Money. My previous points pretty much covers your third question.

your 3rd quote. Well his ire isn't aimed solely at the press is it? It's very much aimed at his family too and he's doing it through the press and the media. He's railed against it but as I've said and the Institution have said, for me it's a war he has no chance of winning. It's futile taking them on. But he's clearly not prepared to listen and he'll just end up digging the hole deeper and deeper. He's already been called out and rightly so for his attack on the press with regards to photographs taken and the timing of when he said they were taken. If he wants to try and take on the press in that manner, then the least he should be is honest about when they were taken. He's basically lied and has now been exposed as a liar for doing that. does beg the question what else has he lied about or even how much of a lot of what he saying is being exaggerated for effect. And the reasons for that are pretty obvious.

your 4th quote. Well firstly, I'm not sure I'm on board with your claim that you believe Harry isn't blameless. Your pretty stoic defence of him suggests otherwise. But whatever. I also won't buy into your claim that everyone criticising Harry is gullible as opposed to everyone that defends him 'gets it' Words to that effect anyway. And yes, your final point I can fully buy into. But we are not the monarchy, we're just little old AVFTT users aren't we Darren, and yes I'm Pete. So I'd suggest the distinction between the two is massive even if the principle is the same.

your 5th and final quote. Well firstly I'll mention that I deliberately put the word "dignified" in brackets as clearly some people will have the opinion that there is nothing dignified about it. I don't think it's a battle he is capable of winning and as I've said countless times before, the longer it drags out the less likely of any reconciliation for a significant length of time. And like I've said a reconciliation would be my main focus. If he, or you think it's a batle he can win and what your interpretation of winning is then that's to you? Is getting millions of dollars but ostracising himself from his family and pretty much everything that comes with that lifestyle a price worth paying? Maybe he thinks it is, yet somehow he still seems to think he's entitled to some of the trappings that go with it.

So to sum up, for me, if he wants to live this quiet lifestyle he claims he craves, then he needs to shut the fuck up. And the sooner the better. Chances of him doing that? Remote.
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He's never claimed he wants a quiet lifestyle. The press claimed that on his behalf, the very press that have intruded on his life. Its the latter he wants rid of.
 
Wizaard said:
He's never claimed he wants a quiet lifestyle. The press claimed that on his behalf, the very press that have intruded on his life. Its the latter he wants rid of.
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So what do he and his wife want then? It seems somewhat contradictory, If as you say he's never claimed he wants a quiet life, then he must want a life doing what he's doing. So which is it? He's a ** Royal for god sake, what don't you get that the press are always gonna intrude on his life! He seems to want it both ways. "Pease leave me alone" but hey I'll write a book and do as many interviews as you want. Just pay me the money, Meanwhile, hey Disney, Meghan is willing to play herself in the story of her life. The fee? 50 million dollars"
 
20togo said:
So what do he and his wife want then? It seems somewhat contradictory, If as you say he's never claimed he wants a life, then he must want a life doing what he's doing. So which is it? He's a ** Royal for god sake, what don't you get that the press are always gonna intrude on his life! He seems to want it both ways. "Pease leave me alone" but hey I'll write a book and do as many interviews as you want. Just pay me the money, Meanwhile, hey Disney, Meghan is willing to play herself in the story of her life. The fee? 50 million dollars"
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There's intrusion and there's forcing his mother's car off the road trying to get a picture.

He's never said 'Please leave me alone'. As you've been told numerous times in this thread and ignored.

He expects public interest but there's also times when he doesn't want a camera in his face. Seems reasonable to me.
 
20togo said:
So what do he and his wife want then? It seems somewhat contradictory, If as you say he's never claimed he wants a quiet life, then he must want a life doing what he's doing. So which is it? He's a ** Royal for god sake, what don't you get that the press are always gonna intrude on his life! He seems to want it both ways. "Pease leave me alone" but hey I'll write a book and do as many interviews as you want. Just pay me the money, Meanwhile, hey Disney, Meghan is willing to play herself in the story of her life. The fee? 50 million dollars"
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'He's a ** Royal...'
Is he though?
Does he resemble any other Royals?
Looks nothing like William, Charles etc.
DNA is needed.
 
Wizaard said:
There's intrusion and there's forcing his mother's car off the road trying to get a picture.

He's never said 'Please leave me alone'. As you've been told numerous times in this thread and ignored.

He expects public interest but there's also times when he doesn't want a camera in his face. Seems reasonable to me.
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Is he going the right way about it? Clearly you think he is!
 
Davepick said:
'He's a ** Royal...'
Is he though?
Does he resemble any other Royals?
Looks nothing like William, Charles etc.
DNA is needed.
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I'm not gonna get into that one Dav. He's enough defenders on here on that particular story. I'll just say this. It's pretty obvious he's aware of all these allegations but says nothing and neither do the press. Maybe he should come out and thank them for that. 😉
 
Wizaard said:
What other option should he go down? If not TV interviews, putting across his perspective in a book? What do you suggest?

Telepathy?
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So he's courting publicity then. Amazing how many little incidents he's revealing. None of which were in the public domain before. Hey and guess what. None of them leaked either. But hey you're believing everything he says because of what? Yep, your agenda! Of course it's not in his nature to exaggerate for effect some of these stories! That would never cross his mind, would it!
 
Wizaard said:
There's intrusion and there's forcing his mother's car off the road trying to get a picture.

He's never said 'Please leave me alone'. As you've been told numerous times in this thread and ignored.

He expects public interest but there's also times when he doesn't want a camera in his face. Seems reasonable to me.
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Unfortunately having a camera in his face comes with the territory. That territory being publishing a book, tv interviews and netflix series.
If he didn't want the cameras, maybe he should have thought twice about all the publicity he's attracting.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Unfortunately having a camera in his face comes with the territory. That territory being publishing a book, tv interviews and netflix series.
If he didn't want the cameras, maybe he should have thought twice about all the publicity he's attracting.
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I think he had cameras in his face before he wrote the book. As did his mother. Even as she lay dying.

That’s the issue really.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I think he had cameras in his face before he wrote the book. As did his mother. Even as she lay dying.

That’s the issue really.
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Notwithstanding his (understandable) inability to get over his mums death which I think is at the bottom of everything. Poor fella is still trapped as a young lad whose mum was killed in a car accident - which he blames absolutely on the press - again understandable but the press would disagree and point out, her driver was pissed which makes you far more likely to crash under any circumstance - again it doesn't really matter so much, it colours his view.

The problem for some, is that he's insulting his family through the very press he despises - and is getting paid a fortune to do it.
But his story has inconsistencies which does him no favours. Allowing people to think the RF is racists, picking up an award for challenging a racist RF - then saying they aren't and he's never said it - is an awful look.

There's more; I just hope he actually thinks this is worth it and it enables him to grow up and lead a more wholesome life than the one where he's still grieving.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
It's just occurred to me how far I have come. The wife and I went down to London and queued half way through the night, finally getting in to Westminster Hall at around 4.0am, to see the Queen Mum. I think Queen Elizabeth was basically sound, although her style of parenting has lead to many of the issues we have seen today. I clearly remember seeing the film of her returning from a months long trip to Australia, and greeting the very small prince Charles with a handshake, shades of Charles not hugging Harry whilst telling him his mother was dead.

Diana was so different, useless to speculate, but if she and Charles had stayed together, maybe her warmth and empathy would have worn off on him. The Royals, if they are to survive, HAVE to change. They are out of touch, bordering on abuse to their in line heirs. The successful Royals in Europe have dispensed with many of the trappings and expected deference that the King and Heir seem to think is their due. I think the timing of this all is important. Inflation and Energy price rises have put much of the population under very real survival pressure. To read of £100M on a coronation, £5M on a new Gold carriage, what on earth do their advisors think they are playing at?

I started off entirely indifferent to Harry and Meghan, but the more I see the main attack dogs on social media, and the way what he actually wrote is quoted out of context, the more I feel sympathy for his narrative. I love my country, I love the British people for all our faults, but I fail to see why I should show any deference or sympathy for the Royals. They have brought it all on themselves by their behaviour.
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Good post and I agree with your position. For me as a socialist who believes in Liberal democracy - even Parliamentary democracy - the differential trappings of monarchy are outdated and should be abolished. The civil list should be heavily trimmed. I actually think that Charles wants to do this and, more than that, I would trust William to be a huge moderniser.

As for Sussex, I find his populist attacks on his family to be an ill-advised distraction. Whatever the future of our constitutional monarchy may be, I believe it needs the serious consideration that constitutional governance deserves. It should not be judged on the basis of this soap opera book.
 
TSSeasider said:
Notwithstanding his (understandable) inability to get over his mums death which I think is at the bottom of everything. Poor fella is still trapped as a young lad whose mum was killed in a car accident - which he blames absolutely on the press - again understandable but the press would disagree and point out, her driver was pissed which makes you far more likely to crash under any circumstance - again it doesn't really matter so much, it colours his view.

The problem for some, is that he's insulting his family through the very press he despises - and is getting paid a fortune to do it.
But his story has inconsistencies which does him no favours. Allowing people to think the RF is racists, picking up an award for challenging a racist RF - then saying they aren't and he's never said it - is an awful look.

There's more; I just hope he actually thinks this is worth it and it enables him to grow up and lead a more wholesome life than the one where he's still grieving.
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I see it as the press portraying him to be someone who is destroying the Royal Family, while they ignore the fact that his uncle is a paedophile and serial abuser, paying off his victims using public money.

Just who is the villain here?
 
TSSeasider said:
No, but they are only publishing his book; all his media rounds are with the mainstream press he despises.
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I could have missed some things but I haven't seen him do anything with the tabloid press.
 
Lala said:
Cringe.

Its like a very very very bad 50 shades of grey reading.

If people are seriously bored or daft enough to find a book with such content fascinating then maybe I live far too much of an interesting life after all.
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It’s not an excerpt from chapter 43 of the book as the picture suggests, but in context of the theme run through the book, this is a humorous take on how the traumatic event of his mother’s death and his mother generally, come to mind in the most random circumstances.

You can choose to view with cynical eyes as directed by those poking fun or you can choose to understand and relate….
 
Wizaard said:
I see it as the press portraying him to be someone who is destroying the Royal Family, while they ignore the fact that his uncle is a paedophile and serial abuser, paying off his victims using public money.

Just who is the villain here?
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But have they though, really.

Andrew hasn't got 'away' with it; it was the investigative media who showed the world what and who he was involved with, and Emily Maitliss, just allowed him to dig his own metaphorical grave.

The only times I see the word Prince Andrew it is proceeded by a variation of the word "disgraced" - rightly he's an outcast in his own family and has had zero opportunity to rehabilitate himself into public life as hard as he's tried.

Meanwhile; Harry has overshared his life, has been inconsistent with what he's said and has sold his side for a fortune - but his only story appears to be what's wrong with everyone else. It's not a good look, and to his family (not the rest of us) it is villainous.

I've met a number of people who have set up charities in memory of relatives who have died; and the one thing they have in common is that it stops them having to grieve, really grieve, the death of their loved one. Having worked in a hospice, having studied 'death and dying' in Uni (albeit 25 years ago) Harry has unresolved grief which really is dictating his behaviour now.

I've said it before, he needs out pity - his book is a cry for help really; he needs plenty of proper help to enable him to heal; until that he's going to continue to be eaten up by how and why his mum died.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Good post and I agree with your position. For me as a socialist who believes in Liberal democracy - even Parliamentary democracy - the differential trappings of monarchy are outdated and should be abolished. The civil list should be heavily trimmed. I actually think that Charles wants to do this and, more than that, I would trust William to be a huge moderniser.

As for Sussex, I find his populist attacks on his family to be an ill-advised distraction. Whatever the future of our constitutional monarchy may be, I believe it needs the serious consideration that constitutional governance deserves. It should not be judged on the basis of this soap opera book.
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It’s kind of missing the point of the book or the issues he’s raising. You keep going on about the ‘constitutional monarchy’ and a debate about their future, which is fine and dandy, but it’s not a subject Harry has raised send and nor is it the change he is trying to influence.

He’s aiming his sights at the Press primarily and the issues he raises impact anyone with Celebrity status or in whom their might be ‘so called’ public interest.

You seem to be off on a tangent, having lost the context of the conversation he is driving…. Perhaps that’s what the press intend ?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I don’t blow hot and cold, I said previously that I can relate to him and share some of his views. That doesn’t mean I like everything about him… I’m addressing some of his character flaws here, specifically as a father… Like everyone else he also has some qualities too.

When I say relevant, I mean up to date… representing attitudes and values that reflect a modern first world country.


I wouldn’t wish to comment on a section of the book that has been taken out of context then sensationalised by the Press for dramatic effect, without having understood the full context and read it for myself.

In principle, I don’t see him describing his personal experience during wartime as a particular issue. Plenty have done so before him…

The threat of a terrorism attack or of any nutter trying to harm him and his family is just a routine part of his daily life I would have thought.
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I have read an excerpt and it is actually a comment on the way they were trained to deal with killing. Which is why criticising it is actually criticising the way the Army trains its pilots
 
TSSeasider said:
I've not heard him distinguish between the 'tabloid' press and the 'press' but I've not listened or read that much of what he's been going on about.
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Well he has, so you were wrong. I wish people would educate themselves before coming out with strong opinions. Nothing worse than an idiot with conviction.
 
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