Secret cross party talks held about Brexit issues

TSSeasider said:
What do you have against British people; such sweeping insults.

We've a history of allotment holders producing a cash crop, don't worry about people growing and picking local produce.
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Seen interviews with growers in Lincolnshire and Essex saying they won't be sowing as many crops this year as last year they didn't have enough labour to pick them so wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds in rotting food. They tried to get Brits to pick and couldn't get the numbers. Some who turned up lasted only a few weeks.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
My girlfriend tried to buy something from our local Tesco's last night and was told Brexit was a major problem for them affecting their supply chains. Tesco have started putting expected delivery dates next to item descriptions in this store as the supply is unreliable. Peppers were mentioned as an example of food that they cannot get atm which was freely available before.
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Surprised a dullard like you has got a partner if all you can talk about is what you say fecking Tesco hasn’t got in stock. Other more well stocked supermarkets are available.😜🤣🇬🇧
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Seen interviews with growers in Lincolnshire and Essex saying they won't be sowing as many crops this year as last year they didn't have enough labour to pick them so wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds in rotting food. They tried to get Brits to pick and couldn't get the numbers. Some who turned up lasted only a few weeks.
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Pay the appropriate rate and people will work.

Sadly, we've had eastern Europeans living 10+ to a home, getting paid less than their time is worth, sending money back home, and artificially keeping wages (and inflation) low for 20 years - benefiting supermarket profits mostly.

A huge amount of the fiscal correction is taking place because the labour shortage is giving people a chance to negotiate what they are worth.

It would have been better to have inflation increases over the last 20 years, rather than 20 months; but that's not happened.

Meanwhile, I guarantee there will be far too much food produced and we won't run out.
 
Kurtan said:
Not according to British farmers

www.independent.co.uk

Brexit means fewer British products in supermarkets, farmers tell MPs

Exclusive: Kent farming giant reports 8% fall in harvest due to lack of seasonal pickers – saying it’s easier to import fruit
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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It's a very interesting article as it highlights how unintended side effects of Brexit come into play that voters clearly never could anticipate.

TSSeasider said:
Pay the appropriate rate and people will work.
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If only it were that simple. Would you then pay £5 for some British apples when some from Egypt (should they managed to get past the red tape) were sat next to them on the shelf at £1.75
 
Seems as if a U.K./EU deal on Northern Ireland may be imminent.

If it is will the Brexiters/DUP go into a “Brexit Betrayal” meltdown? Or will they try to spin it as a collapse and capitulation by the EU?

And will Johnson try to cause mischief again, undermining Sunak in the same way as he did May? Paving the way for his “Great Comeback”?

Could be an exciting few days.
 
First steps on a common sense road to reconciliation with the EU which will ultimately benefit the the economy, or the starting pistol for another Tory psychodrama over unhinged niche ideology?

Are the economic benefits of closer cooperation with the EU considerably greater than keeping a small part of his party onside?

Won`t please Johnson at all. Or the ERG. But nothing does really.

Good for GB patriots though, if an agreement is reached...
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
It's a very interesting article as it highlights how unintended side effects of Brexit come into play that voters clearly never could anticipate.


If only it were that simple. Would you then pay £5 for some British apples when some from Egypt (should they managed to get past the red tape) were sat next to them on the shelf at £1.75
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So you support exploitation? Vietnamese and Bangladeshi textile workers earning 35p/day etc?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Seems as if a U.K./EU deal on Northern Ireland may be imminent.

If it is will the Brexiters/DUP go into a “Brexit Betrayal” meltdown? Or will they try to spin it as a collapse and capitulation by the EU?

And will Johnson try to cause mischief again, undermining Sunak in the same way as he did May? Paving the way for his “Great Comeback”?

Could be an exciting few days.
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I hope not.

It's so unnecessary; just get on with governing.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
He won't do the research as the answer doesn't fit in with his one track agenda. Bell end indeed.
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"Morocco’s largest trading partner is the EU. Because Morocco’s trade with Europe has been so significant, an important development of the 1990s was negotiating a formal association with the EU, including an agreement to create, over time, a Euro-Mediterranean free trade zone."

Now that Britain is no longer a part of the EU and carries so little weight on its own, we come further down the pecking order when crop yields are lower in such countries. Another fantastic juicy Brexit bonus which is now a reality on shelves near you.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
"Morocco’s largest trading partner is the EU. Because Morocco’s trade with Europe has been so significant, an important development of the 1990s was negotiating a formal association with the EU, including an agreement to create, over time, a Euro-Mediterranean free trade zone."

Now that Britain is no longer a part of the EU and carries so little weight on its own, we come further down the pecking order when crop yields are lower in such countries. Another fantastic juicy Brexit bonus which is now a reality on shelves near you.
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A reality in your gloomy one track mind.
 
Shandypants said:
9

Play the ball not the man. His point seems reality
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It depends which report you read. It's difficult not to play the man in his case, such is his overwhelming negativity and one track agenda. So thanks for the advice, but as long as he continues that, I'll keep playing the man.
 
Just been in One Stop. The cashier says that Brexit has increased the sale of Melton Mowbray pork pies in that store 🙄
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
It depends which report you read. It's difficult not to play the man in his case, such is his overwhelming negativity and one track agenda. So thanks for the advice, but as long as he continues that, I'll keep playing the man.
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He's actually correct on this one. If you look at facts the whole thing is a disaster with zero benefits. I've no doubt you'll respond by saying it wasn't purely about trade but when it makes people poorer it will turn the poorest who tipped the vote.
 
TSSeasider said:
Pay the appropriate rate and people will work.

Sadly, we've had eastern Europeans living 10+ to a home, getting paid less than their time is worth, sending money back home, and artificially keeping wages (and inflation) low for 20 years - benefiting supermarket profits mostly.

A huge amount of the fiscal correction is taking place because the labour shortage is giving people a chance to negotiate what they are worth.

It would have been better to have inflation increases over the last 20 years, rather than 20 months; but that's not happened.

Meanwhile, I guarantee there will be far too much food produced and we won't run out.
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Yet Tories are saying we can't afford wage rises. Fiscal correction my arse. Race to the bottom.
 
Trammo said:
Achtung ! Achtung! German labour shortage of 1.74 million vacancies despite freedom of movement. So Remoaners how has that happened....?😜
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Covid and the restrictions on business meant millions of people, particularly from Eastern Europe couldn't earn any more, so they went home.
Because they are hard working talented people they found jobs in a place where they feel at home, literally.

My sister in law was a teacher in Germany she returned to Romania when the school shut. Wages have improved significantly in teaching in Romania since she left. Life was hard for her here. She now lives in the house she has owned for years close to her parents. Her son is learning what life in Romania is like, he's never lived there before. Her quality of life improved when she first came to Germany, it has improved further on returning home.

Its called getting on in life and it's what capable driven people do.

Does that answer your question.?
 
Foolweary said:
Covid and the restrictions on business meant millions of people, particularly from Eastern Europe couldn't earn any more, so they went home.
Because they are hard working talented people they found jobs in a place where they feel at home, literally.

My sister in law was a teacher in Germany she returned to Romania when the school shut. Wages have improved significantly in teaching in Romania since she left. Life was hard for her here. She now lives in the house she has owned for years close to her parents. Her son is learning what life in Romania is like, he's never lived there before. Her quality of life improved when she first came to Germany, it has improved further on returning home.

Its called getting on in life and it's what capable driven people do.

Does that answer your question.?
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I took a group from our youth club out to Baia Mare in Maramures back in 2016/7 on an exchange.

It was interesting hearing the concerns of local officials about the drain of talent and also driving through villages with massive houses being built and no-one living in them because they were earning their living abroad but preparing for their return.

Really interesting place.
 
Shandypants said:
He's actually correct on this one. If you look at facts the whole thing is a disaster with zero benefits. I've no doubt you'll respond by saying it wasn't purely about trade but when it makes people poorer it will turn the poorest who tipped the vote.
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I've made my reasons for voting leave clear on here and on numerous occasions. So I'm not about to go through all that again. And you're quite correct it wasn't all about trade and short term pain, which I've said all along.
There does appear to be a global shortage of tomatoes, not just here.
And the reason I'm so scornful of the German bloke is his constant whining and negativity, it's not just about something so unimportant as a shortage of tomatoes, it's the way he gleefully jumps on it, as he does on everything in an effort to criticise the UK.
A short term shortage of tomatoes is no big deal. If that's the sort of thing that we'll have to put up with for leaving the EU, then I'll happily accept that.
 
TSSeasider said:
I took a group from our youth club out to Baia Mare in Maramures back in 2016/7 on an exchange.

It was interesting hearing the concerns of local officials about the drain of talent and also driving through villages with massive houses being built and no-one living in them because they were earning their living abroad but preparing for their return.

Really interesting place.
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At one time 17% of Romanians were living abroad, covid and a large increase in wages has resulted in many returning, it'd be interesting to see the figures now.
 
The fact is we have Brexit and have to make the best of it
It is also a fact that regardless of Brexit the UK economy has shrunk as a direct consequence of leaving the EU
Yes there was Covid but 6 years on and we're still seeing zero benefit of the daft referendum
Most Tories think this and most big businesses know it
The extreme wings of both parties were pro leaving ,think Reese Mogg ,J.Corbyn
 
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So, the man who signed up to the NI protocol in order to "Get Brexit done" in an oven-ready way (Johnson), who then threatened to unilaterally withdraw from it - and thus break an international treaty, because it wasn`t working satisfactorily - is now leading a potential rebellion against the man (Sunak) who wants to improve the situation by negotiating an agreement that will simplify and improve trading conditions for all concerned. Er, pretty much like Johnson wanted to do.

Surely Johnson should be applauding Sunak for this if he hated the N.I. protocol so much?

An unexpected Brexit Bonus is that Suella Braverman is threatening to resign over this affront to democracy. A win/win for Sunak and the country then.

Let`s hope, on behalf of all true patriots, that Sunak (with the help of Starmer if required) prevails...
 
Food rationing now at supermarkets. Asda and Morrisons

How come this isn't happening in EU countries who also source from the same countries? I thought leave voters told us we would hold all the power in trade negotiations and that the EU, with a market size of 550 million people didn't have more buying power than the UK's 60 million?
 
Did you actually read the article before you posted?
A few points from it below -

The shortages - which are affecting Ireland too - are largely the result of extreme weather in Spain and north Africa, where floods, snow and hail have affected harvests.

Unusually cold weather in southern Spain has affected the supply of some fresh produce, while in Morocco floods have affected yields and storms have led to ferries being delayed or cancelled.

'It's not Brexit'​

Anecdotal evidence suggests the UK has been bearing the brunt of the shortages, but problems have also been reported in Ireland.
Tesco Ireland said its stock levels were temporarily affected, while the locally-owned chain SuperValu has also reported problems.
Industry sources suggested the UK may be suffering because of lower domestic production and more complex supply chains, as well as a price-sensitive market. But they said Brexit was unlikely to be a factor.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Did you actually read the article before you posted?
A few points from it below -

The shortages - which are affecting Ireland too - are largely the result of extreme weather in Spain and north Africa, where floods, snow and hail have affected harvests.

Unusually cold weather in southern Spain has affected the supply of some fresh produce, while in Morocco floods have affected yields and storms have led to ferries being delayed or cancelled.

'It's not Brexit'​

Anecdotal evidence suggests the UK has been bearing the brunt of the shortages, but problems have also been reported in Ireland.
Tesco Ireland said its stock levels were temporarily affected, while the locally-owned chain SuperValu has also reported problems.
Industry sources suggested the UK may be suffering because of lower domestic production and more complex supply chains, as well as a price-sensitive market. But they said Brexit was unlikely to be a factor.
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What do you think "more complex supply chains" means if it is not Brexit?

I've searched several Irish news outlet websites and not seen a single article saying they have empty shelves. Search countless German ones with a variety of terms and nothing showing there either. The closest I got was that prices might increase due to lower stocks.

It definitely seems that some special to the UK is going on.
 
What part of ‘it’s not Brexit’ do you not understand?
Or rather don’t want to understand because it doesn’t fit your boring one track agenda
 
gjr69 said:
Maybe 1.74 million Germans in their 50s and 60s have taken early retirement and moved to Portugal, Spain, France, Italy or Greece. Who could blame them, we used to be able to do the same, we can definitely blame the loss of that freedom on Brexit.
Of course if you are a millionaire Brexiteer like Andrew Neill or Jim Ratcliffe you can still do it but for most of us that opportunity has now gone.
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With respect you’ve no real idea why there’s the Labour shortage. Therefore your ‘maybe’ they’ve gone to the beaches is virtually irrelevant.

But let’s say they have gone to the beaches, are you saying you’d support workforce shortages of such as scale so people can instead go lie on a beach or sit around on a bar terrace? How is able-bodied 50 somethings leaving their home country to instead lounge around going to help this world?

You might not like Brexit but there’s a fair challenge here to those that blame Brexit alone for workforce shortages. Other European countries have such shortages. That’s not Brexit. But our shortages are? Strange eh?

This is a very strange phenomenon. Our lorry driver shortage was due to Brexit. But the world wide shortage of lorry drivers wasn’t. It’s getting spooky.
 
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RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
What part of ‘it’s not Brexit’ do you not understand?
Or rather don’t want to understand because it doesn’t fit your boring one track agenda
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The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain. I’m sure that phrase pre-dates Brexit, but some on here obviously believe Brexit has affected Spanish rainfall patterns.
 
Malced said:
With respect you’ve no real idea why there’s the Labour shortage. Therefore your ‘maybe’ they’ve gone to the beaches is virtually irrelevant.

But let’s say they have gone to the beaches, are you saying you’d support workforce shortages of such as scale so people can instead go lie on a beach or sit around on a bar terrace? How is able-bodied 50 somethings leaving their home country to instead lounge around going to help this world?

You might not like Brexit but there’s a fair challenge here to those that blame Brexit alone for workforce shortages. Other European countries have such shortages. That’s not Brexit. But our shortages are? Strange eh?

This is a very strange phenomenon. Our lorry driver shortage was due to Brexit. But the world wide shortage of lorry drivers wasn’t. It’s geng spooky.
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I've grafted for 40 years since I was the age of 14, for the last 15 years I've thought I might like to live somewhere near the Mediterranean and it was a possibility. Now it isn't. Not overly concerned about lorry drivers, nothing I can do about it. Not bothered about the sovereignty thing, not concerned about immigration, so brexit offered me nothing and took opportunities away.
I have absolutely no idea why the Germans have a labour shortage I was just responding to the post of a particularly narrow minded person who writes that they have.
It's that simple, I love the food, culture, and climate, billionaire brexiteers can still base themselves there but working class British citizens can't. I might have an insular view on this but my opinions and decisions reflect how things effect me and my family, seems like a good place to form your opinions. Certainly makes more sense to me than dancing to the tunes of Johnson, Farage, Rees Mogg and others.
 
gjr69 said:
I've grafted for 40 years since I was the age of 14, for the last 15 years I've thought I might like to live somewhere near the Mediterranean and it was a possibility. Now it isn't. Not overly concerned about lorry drivers, nothing I can do about it. Not bothered about the sovereignty thing, not concerned about immigration, so brexit offered me nothing and took opportunities away.
I have absolutely no idea why the Germans have a labour shortage I was just responding to the post of a particularly narrow minded person who writes that they have.
It's that simple, I love the food, culture, and climate, billionaire brexiteers can still base themselves there but working class British citizens can't. I might have an insular view on this but my opinions and decisions reflect how things effect me and my family, seems like a good place to form your opinions. Certainly makes more sense to me than dancing to the tunes of Johnson, Farage, Rees Mogg and others.
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That’s fair enough.
I’m not sure to what extent Brexit has made retiring abroad in Europe more difficult.
But I can see it from your perspective if that’s now not an option for you.
I would have thought there would be reciprocal arrangements in time, if not from day 1.
There was talk that students wouldn’t be able to come here and vice versa but that indeed is still happening.
My reason for posting was that some will blame Brexit for everything. I know it has its significant downsides but it’s wrong when others immediately cite Brexit whenever there’s an issue.
Especially when those issues are common to other countries within and/or outside of Europe.
I’m not pointing the finger at anyone specifically but there are folk ideologically opposed to Brexit who time and again jump on any adverse news story and blame Brexit - often unfairly. Yea Brexit maybe making some issues worse, or not helping, but some attribute Brexit to be the sole cause and close their eyes and ears to the same issues affecting other major economies.

It’s fair game to criticise Brexit for adverse impacts it’s caused, but it’s not fair to blame it for everything for opportunistic point scoring.

When people blame it for everything they undermine their own case, which could be a valid one in myriad aspects.
 
gjr69 said:
I've grafted for 40 years since I was the age of 14, for the last 15 years I've thought I might like to live somewhere near the Mediterranean and it was a possibility. Now it isn't. Not overly concerned about lorry drivers, nothing I can do about it. Not bothered about the sovereignty thing, not concerned about immigration, so brexit offered me nothing and took opportunities away.
I have absolutely no idea why the Germans have a labour shortage I was just responding to the post of a particularly narrow minded person who writes that they have.
It's that simple, I love the food, culture, and climate, billionaire brexiteers can still base themselves there but working class British citizens can't. I might have an insular view on this but my opinions and decisions reflect how things effect me and my family, seems like a good place to form your opinions. Certainly makes more sense to me than dancing to the tunes of Johnson, Farage, Rees Mogg and others.
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You can still retire to Europe but it is a bit more complicated, in fact you can retire to most countries in the world.

If you google ‘retirement visa’ and the country you are looking at you will get advice on how to do it.

It’s something I have studied in depth so if you have any questions just ask.

Ps. Brexit was a stupid idea that is never going to work - see my previous post earlier in this thread to explain why.
 
Malced said:
There was talk that students wouldn’t be able to come here and vice versa but that indeed is still happening.
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www.nature.com

UK universities report sharp post-Brexit drop in EU students

The 2021–22 academic year saw a 53% fall in the number of first-year EU students enrolling at British universities.
www.nature.com www.nature.com

EU student numbers have more than halved since Brexit. This has adversely affected the revenue streams of our university sector and yes it is entirely due to Brexit.
 
Malced said:
It’s fair game to criticise Brexit for adverse impacts it’s caused, but it’s not fair to blame it for everything for opportunistic point scoring.
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And another massive loss for our universities directly caused by Brexit;

eandt.theiet.org

UK scientists blocked from Horizon funding programme amid Brexit tensions

The European Union (EU) has confirmed it is holding back the UK's access to the £81bn 'Horizon Europe' programme as a response to Boris Johnson's plans to tear up the Northern Ireland protocol.
eandt.theiet.org eandt.theiet.org

These things are causing very real damage to our country and our economy. Of course we are going to mention them and blame the cause of them which is Brexit.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
And another massive loss for our universities directly caused by Brexit;

eandt.theiet.org

UK scientists blocked from Horizon funding programme amid Brexit tensions

The European Union (EU) has confirmed it is holding back the UK's access to the £81bn 'Horizon Europe' programme as a response to Boris Johnson's plans to tear up the Northern Ireland protocol.
eandt.theiet.org eandt.theiet.org

These things are causing very real damage to our country and our economy. Of course we are going to mention them and blame the cause of them which is Brexit.
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As I said, there's enough to go at which can rightly be attributed to Brexit. But there's a lot of other things that aren't primarily caused by Brexit - things which affect other countries. That's my point. We see Brexit unfairly blamed for everything on here and it does indeed undermine the case being made against Brexit.
 
Malced said:
As I said, there's enough to go at which can rightly be attributed to Brexit. But there's a lot of other things that aren't primarily caused by Brexit - things which affect other countries. That's my point. We see Brexit unfairly blamed for everything on here and it does indeed undermine the case being made against Brexit.
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Yes I accept that.
The current food shortages will have multiple causes (including weather conditions etc), but one of the factors in the current situation is that it is now harder to import and grow food in our country because of Brexit. Here is an article with a quote from the CEO of Sainsbury's that says exactly that;

www.independent.co.uk

Food shortages: Carrots, leeks and cabbages could run low of supermarkets in weeks

Growers also warn British-grown leek supplies could be exhausted by April
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

So the CEO of one of the biggest UK supermarket chains thinks that Brexit is a factor in the current situation. Is it really unfair for members of the public to blame Brexit for these food shortages when the CEO of a massive supermarket chain is saying the same thing?
 
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