Shamima Begum

Scaramanga said:
Absolutely not, she’s the Nazi not me. I care about innocent law abiding citizens. Not pure garbage. Leave her to rot in whatever hell hole she residing. I presume you won’t be offering her a room at your place ? No thought not.
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What's this obsession with having to offer board and lodging to anyone you express an opinion on.

I presume all the RWNJs are happy to have Tommy and his entourage move in?
 
southshorepool said:
I'm not sure you're going to like the replies Wiz.
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Oh I'm not so sure. Hopefully, justice will seem to be done with her. As for this Tommy chap, yep he seems to be an extreme right wing agitator whose aim is to cause social disharmony. Eventually he will come unstuck.
 
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What influence does anything expressed on here have on anything or anyone? Tommy, on the other hand, has a national profile and is working to divide the country.
 
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Wizaard said:
What influence does anything expressed on here have on anything or anyone? Tommy, on the other hand, has a national profile and is working to divide the country.
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Ah so you're of the opinion that people simply confine their opinions to this message board. Could of sworn I attended many protests against the Oystons.
 
There is no equivalence between a violent criminal racist with his far right hate policies and supporting social justice wanting policies that would be considered moderate in most of Europe. Give examples of extremist policies I support.
 
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20togo said:
Ah so you're of the opinion that people simply confine their opinions to this message board. Could of sworn I attended many protests against the Oystons.
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Again, not a national profile. Local issue as far as the rest of the country was concerned. The far right is a threat to the country. World of difference
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I fully understand your anger. However she was at the time of joining Islamic State - and still is - a child. Society rightly has different standards of judging children in the decisions they make.
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If she's now 20 how can you say she still is a child?
 
Wizaard said:
Again, not a national profile. Local issue as far as the rest of the country was concerned. The far right is a threat to the country. World of difference
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The far left is a threat to the country too. . I just suspect they are a bit more underhand about how they go about it. I'm sure you will agree we could do without both forms of extremism. Fortunately the general population will reject both.
 
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20togo said:
If she's now 20 how can you say she still is a child?
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She clearly isn't a child now. Child soldiers in Africa, six years old commit atrocities. When they turn 20 do they suddenly become responsible for actions as a child?
 
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Wizaard said:
What's this obsession with having to offer board and lodging to anyone you express an opinion on.

I presume all the RWNJs are happy to have Tommy and his entourage move in?
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I’m not advocating He be kept out of the hands of the authorities like you are with a terrorist. It’s a little different. And I’m not a RWNJ I just have different opinions than you. There’s a difference you know.
 
basilrobbie said:
I won't be offering her a room at yours, that's for sure. I have some compassion. 😀

I hold no brief for this wretched woman. But when she eventually gets the justice she deserves, I don't want there to be any scope for complaint that due process wasn't scrupulously followed, and the rule of law upheld. We are not only better than that, we should be seen to be.

I doubt you'll understand that, but some of us care about these things.
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Maybe you should practice what you preach ?
 
sounds like she'll be let back in, and we then run the risk of her committing an act of terrorism - which will then be classed as understandable as we were indirectly responsible for her baby dying.

At 15 you're responsible for your actions under UK law - she knew exactly what she was doing. Let her rot
 
Halifax71 said:
At 15 you're responsible for your actions under UK law - she knew exactly what she was doing. Let her rot
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What’s your view on a 15 year old girl getting groomed into sex working for an Asian sex gang? Would you say she knew what she was getting into?
 
Halifax71 said:
completely different
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We’ll have to disagree on that, I’m afraid.
Look, I’m as opposed to terrorism as the next man, it’s abhorrent, especially the ultra brutal methods that those bastards use. I’m torn when it comes to the death penalty for terrorists - my heart says hang them all, but my head remembers the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4.
Begum admits her part in Isis, so cut and dried in her guilt, but you can’t ignore her age at recruitment - she was groomed and trafficked. Does she pose a future risk? Yes, IMO. Do I want her back here? No, certainly not, I just don’t know what we can do legally.
 
Johnno said:
We’ll have to disagree on that, I’m afraid.
Look, I’m as opposed to terrorism as the next man, it’s abhorrent, especially the ultra brutal methods that those bastards use. I’m torn when it comes to the death penalty for terrorists - my heart says hang them all, but my head remembers the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4.
Begum admits her part in Isis, so cut and dried in her guilt, but you can’t ignore her age at recruitment - she was groomed and trafficked. Does she pose a future risk? Yes, IMO. Do I want her back here? No, certainly not, I just don’t know what we can do legally.
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We need to follow the law. Charge and try her with whatever terrorism charges are appropriate. Sentence her according to the justice of the land and imprison her as befits her crimes. It is what civilised nations do.
 
catinstalbans said:
We need to follow the law. Charge and try her with whatever terrorism charges are appropriate. Sentence her according to the justice of the land and imprison her as befits her crimes. It is what civilised nations do.
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I should have finished with “other than what we are doing”.
 
Shandypants said:
She clearly isn't a child now. Child soldiers in Africa, six years old commit atrocities. When they turn 20 do they suddenly become responsible for actions as a child?
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But we are not in Africa are we? Discuss the topic. She was not six years old, she was nearly sixteen and clearly was capable of being very calculated in planning how she intended to cross countries in order to join ISIS.
She is responsible for her words as well as her actions. Her words have shown no remorse for her actions. She stated she didn't have a problem with people being beheaded. She made no contact with her family whilst she was away. If she wants to come back to this country, then let her do it under her own steam by paying for it herself. Then let her be charged with being a member of a terrorist organisation and let justice run it's course. And let her pay for her own court costs.
 
Johnno said:
We’ll have to disagree on that, I’m afraid.
Look, I’m as opposed to terrorism as the next man, it’s abhorrent, especially the ultra brutal methods that those bastards use. I’m torn when it comes to the death penalty for terrorists - my heart says hang them all, but my head remembers the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4.
Begum admits her part in Isis, so cut and dried in her guilt, but you can’t ignore her age at recruitment - she was groomed and trafficked. Does she pose a future risk? Yes, IMO. Do I want her back here? No, certainly not, I just don’t know what we can do legally.
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Whether she was groomed is up for debate but I certainly don't buy into your statement that she was "trafficked". She wasn't smuggled across borders hidden in the backs of lorries. She did it pretty openly as shown by all the video evidence.
 
"When she does return to the UK, Begum is likely to be arrested and questioned before being charged with terror-related offences, it emerged today"
 
20togo said:
Whether she was groomed is up for debate but I certainly don't buy into your statement that she was "trafficked". She wasn't smuggled across borders hidden in the backs of lorries. She did it pretty openly as shown by all the video evidence.
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I'll tell you what 20s. I'm glad you "don't do politics". There wouldn't be enough time in the day to read this board if you did....
 
20togo said:
Whether she was groomed is up for debate but I certainly don't buy into your statement that she was "trafficked". She wasn't smuggled across borders hidden in the backs of lorries. She did it pretty openly as shown by all the video evidence.
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Completely off topic but “trafficked” is an interesting word and I think most people would share your view of lorries and horrific incidents like the one in Essex a few months back.

However one of the allegations made by the lady (then a 17 year old girl) in the Epstein/Maxwell/ Prince Andrew saga was that she was “trafficked” to London. Presumably on a private jet or at least first class, sipping champagne along the way.

And obviously there was also the claim (proven in the case of Epstein) that she, and all the other victims, were groomed by sexual predators.

I suppose what I’m getting at is that we each have a particular image in mind when we use words like grooming and trafficking. Whereas other people might have different a different picture in their head.
 
20togo said:
Whether she was groomed is up for debate but I certainly don't buy into your statement that she was "trafficked". She wasn't smuggled across borders hidden in the backs of lorries. She did it pretty openly as shown by all the video evidence.
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Within the context of Child Criminal/Sexual Exploitation, trafficking just means moved with the assistance of an adult exploiter. That can be just as simple as being given a rail ticket or taxi fare.
Surely no one thinks that her and her mates organised the journey from the UK to a jihadi camp in Syria all by themselves?
 
I’m sorry she should never be allowed back in the UK, and the people in the legal system who think different should be removed from office, she betrayed the nation. Even at 15 she knows what is right and what is wrong, it also took her several years to decide she had made a mistake and say she want to come home, and to what to live of our benefits. She was big enough to leave the country on her own (ok with a couple of friends) she now has to live with her decisions.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
It must be a helluva coincidence if it's happened elsewhere but on this thread it was Basil Robbie who used that phrase.
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Yep, Scara it was Robbie. I looked it up because I had a post deleted because it was classed as personal abuse yet Robbies personal abuse of you was allowed to stand. .
No consistency in moderation, I'm afraid..
 
20togo said:
Yep, Scara it was Robbie. I looked it up because I had a post deleted because it was classed as personal abuse yet Robbies personal abuse of you was allowed to stand. .
No consistency in moderation, I'm afraid..
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Maybe I shouldn't have used that phrase, but Scara dishes it out to multiple posters every day. If you can't stand the heat, et. etc.

Anyway, I was making a serious point about intolerance of others. His answer to the bigotry and prejudice of others is to counter it with even more of his own. I'd have a bit more respect for you 20s if you addressed that, instead of bitching about moderators who I think cut you more slack than most.
 
Old_Laytonian said:
"When she does return to the UK, Begum is likely to be arrested and questioned before being charged with terror-related offences, it emerged today"
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And then us tax payers have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to keep her in jail with no doubt round the clock security!
 
basilrobbie said:
Maybe I shouldn't have used that phrase, but Scara dishes it out to multiple posters every day. If you can't stand the heat, et. etc.

Anyway, I was making a serious point about intolerance of others. His answer to the bigotry and prejudice of others is to counter it with even more of his own. I'd have a bit more respect for you 20s if you addressed that, instead of bitching about moderators who I think cut you more slack than most.
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What exactly do I dish out ? Im more than happy to debate on here but just because I don’t share the same views as the leftwaffe they instantly start with the standard nazi, bigot, racist comments. When that starts you leave me no choice.
 
basilrobbie said:
That might be quite cutting, if I had the slightest idea what you were on about. 😀
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Given your record of propriety, I found it rather amusing - if that's the right word - listening to you informing everybody of how important it is to doing things properly.

When you accused somebody of being a "little nazi" when it "came to the treating of people you don't like", I fell off my chair.
 
basilrobbie said:
Maybe I shouldn't have used that phrase, but Scara dishes it out to multiple posters every day. If you can't stand the heat, et. etc.

Anyway, I was making a serious point about intolerance of others. His answer to the bigotry and prejudice of others is to counter it with even more of his own. I'd have a bit more respect for you 20s if you addressed that, instead of bitching about moderators who I think cut you more slack than most.
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I agree with you about "the heat etc" That's always been my mantra. I also was simply pointing out to Scara that he was mistaken. As for bigotry and prejudice of others, well it's a two way street. I think we covered those points and others you mentioned in your private message to me to which I replied.
 
Your definition of poverty is very different to one ive seen around the world !
catinstalbans said:
As someone who is not an extremist, just someone with a social conscience I am glad we can agree about something. Dislike of Tory policies which deliberately drive people into poverty and victimize the poor and disabled is not extremism.
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SEASIDE2020 said:
Given your record of propriety, I found it rather amusing - if that's the right word - listening to you informing everybody of how important it is to doing things properly.

When you accused somebody of being a "little nazi" when it "came to the treating of people you don't like", I fell off my chair.
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That's much better, well done. 😀
 
maxnix said:
Your definition of poverty is very different to one ive seen around the world !
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The government(s) define poverty, and the number of people living in it, in the UK, is increasing.
Not saying other countries don’t have it worse btw.
 
Poverty is a relative term, and not just about economics either. We talk glibly about it in this country, but I'm not sure we have the faintest idea what it really can be.
 
Halifax71 said:
sounds like she'll be let back in, and we then run the risk of her committing an act of terrorism - which will then be classed as understandable as we were indirectly responsible for her baby dying.

At 15 you're responsible for your actions under UK law - she knew exactly what she was doing. Let her rot
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I think it’s fair to say the left leaning posters tend to have absolutely no concern for national security.
Any victims of rape or are attacked are just collateral damage and should keep their mouths shut for the good of “diversity”.
Ask Naz Shah
 
basilrobbie said:
Poverty is a relative term, and not just about economics either. We talk glibly about it in this country, but I'm not sure we have the faintest idea what it really can be.
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A good point but no need for me to say who brought the subject of poverty into the debate in his attempt to maliciously politically point score. whilst claiming he's not an extremist.
 
By definition of some on here she was too young and was vulnerable. Are We to assume then that young Greta Thunberg is just a silly little girl ? If so why is she telling the world what to do including politicians and there listening. So what is it ?
 
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