SLO - Does he do a good job?

Phil_bfc deux said:
Yeah I get all that and I tend to agree with you about certain groups being represented

My point is more about what was said on the message from the SLO to Grimmy

That doesn't read well at all and the mentions of charters, SD and the nonsense around affiliations and memberships just looks to me like the club with backing from the SLO are moving down the path of only dealing with BST

If that's not the case then fair enough I will apologises to BST and the SLO once the club decides what it's going to do

The last thing we need is another BSA style closed shop

And to be frank i think its important enough for us to be able to discuss on an open forum without people getting all uppity about things
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I agree Phil. The last thing we need is another BSA style closed shop, and believe me, we're not heading there. Please don't forget that from my pov this was a private correspondence between Grimmy and myself. He'd asked for a meeting with the CEO and I was doing him the courtesy of explaining why it wasn't going to happen right now (or in the next few weeks). There was never a suggestion that it would never happen for MSG or any other fans group. My message was never intended to be shared publicly and frankly I don't think it's been helpful that it was.
 
SLO_BFC said:
I agree Phil. The last thing we need is another BSA style closed shop, and believe me, we're not heading there. Please don't forget that from my pov this was a private correspondence between Grimmy and myself. He'd asked for a meeting with the CEO and I was doing him the courtesy of explaining why it wasn't going to happen right now (or in the next few weeks). There was never a suggestion that it would never happen for MSG or any other fans group. My message was never intended to be shared publicly and frankly I don't think it's been helpful that it was.
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Ok thanks for the reply
 
SLO_BFC said:
I agree Phil. The last thing we need is another BSA style closed shop, and believe me, we're not heading there. Please don't forget that from my pov this was a private correspondence between Grimmy and myself. He'd asked for a meeting with the CEO and I was doing him the courtesy of explaining why it wasn't going to happen right now (or in the next few weeks). There was never a suggestion that it would never happen for MSG or any other fans group. My message was never intended to be shared publicly and frankly I don't think it's been helpful that it was.
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I really feel for Steve here - Sharing the message was a complete breach of confidentiality - but then again, was anyone surprised it happened?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I think you're reading way more into the statement than it says.... This is kind of typical of a reactionary response though, instead of trying to treat the communication with a calm and rational head.

For starters Julian is the Club CEO and I suspect the majority of us want him to be focused on his day job, rather than dealing with needy supporter groups. So It's not unreasonable that he might want to put the brakes on from an influx of requests for direct communication and work on a proper policy.

I'd imagine it became pretty apparent during the intro meeting with BST that the Club has a number of fans groups as well as exiled supporters and I'd imagine BST will have made it clear that the Structured Dialogue approach doesn't really cut it. I'd also imagine that the Senior Management Team will be aware that the communication across a range of levels has been problematic.

It's difficult to pre-judge what the Club policy might be and we're all pretty much guessing.... The best thing to do is to allow the Club time to formulate the policy, rather than criticising them for something we've just made up in our own heads.

And I agree we should be able to discuss it without getting uppity... We should also be able to afford people like Tim and Steve a bit of basic common decency and respect and not be throwing wild and completely unsubstantiated accusations or using emotive terms like Liar to describe an individual who is honourable and decent. Why aren't people standing up and calling these characters out?
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I'm not being reactionary at all, I'm merely reading the SLO message and commenting on it as it doesn't read at all well for the future of club to fans dialogue

The rest of your post is fair enough

I will await the next installment before I comment further
 
SLO_BFC said:
I wasn't "having a go". I was correcting some misinformation, the claim that "no further meetings will be held at all." My reply was::

It's not true that no further meetings with individual fans' groups will be held - just not in the short term, while the Club finalises work on its Fan Engagement Charter. There will likely be structured dialogue meetings and fans' forums scheduled in the coming months as well.

PS. I've also posted on TwitteX a guide for away fans going to Barnsley.
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That’s the first time this season you’ve posted an away day guide. Should be every away game and more pool focussed. How many we taking and what’s the pubs etc
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I'm not being reactionary at all, I'm merely reading the SLO message and commenting on it as it doesn't read at all well for the future of club to fans dialogue

The rest of your post is fair enough

I will await the next installment before I comment further
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I'm not saying you are being reactionary... Just that I think that the response to the message has been reactionary across Social Media. I mean come on... Is there really any need for some of the personal attacks on people's character? Is that really a reasonable or remotely acceptable way to behave?

Why do we need to view that message as 'not reading at all well for the future of club to fans dialogue'?

It seems to me that the opposite is true and the very fact that the Club are seeking to put in place measures and a policy to deal with communication (beyond the compulsory Structured Dialogue stuff) ought to be viewed as something extremely positive.

Let's just take the example above... where Ash confirms he's been invited to attend these meetings... And there will no doubt be other Travel Providers, Minor Groups etc.. etc.. I mean do you hand over the right to represent your opinion to the Club when you travel on a coach? It's ridiculous... I mean should Northern Rail be represented too because people get the train to away games? So it's obvious that the Club might engage in different level communication with Geoff's Mini Bus Crew than it might with BST.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm not saying you are being reactionary... Just that I think that the response to the message has been reactionary across Social Media. I mean come on... Is there really any need for some of the personal attacks on people's character? Is that really a reasonable or remotely acceptable way to behave?

Why do we need to view that message as 'not reading at all well for the future of club to fans dialogue'?

It seems to me that the opposite is true and the very fact that the Club are seeking to put in place measures and a policy to deal with communication (beyond the compulsory Structured Dialogue stuff) ought to be viewed as something extremely positive.

Let's just take the example above... where Ash confirms he's been invited to attend these meetings... And there will no doubt be other Travel Providers, Minor Groups etc.. etc.. I mean do you hand over the right to represent your opinion to the Club when you travel on a coach? It's ridiculous... I mean should Northern Rail be represented too because people get the train to away games? So it's obvious that the Club might engage in different level communication with Geoff's Mini Bus Crew than it might with BST.
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I said I wasn't commenting again 🤣

The point from Ash just shows why it doesn't work inviting all and sundry as it waters down the crowd

Ash has admitted he's a BST member, no doubt Wizaard is as well from the Yorkshire lot as well as that nob from the TKs (not Koudo btw)

They 100% shouldn't be invited under their groups, if they want an invite it should come from the BST pool or you would end up just having a room full of BST bods

The MSG is different as they represent a younger more vocal crowd

Remember the avftt 9 when 6 were BSA members

Its ridiculous as is the fans forum and the way questions have to be sent in

I agree the whole thing needs a re think but not in terms of just dealing with one group because they have a different status
 
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Phil_bfc deux said:
I said I wasn't commenting again 🤣

The point from Ash just shows why it doesn't work inviting all and sundry as it waters down the crowd

Ash has admitted he's a BST member, no doubt Wizaard is as well from the Yorkshire lot as well as that nob from the TKs (not Koudo btw)

They 100% shouldn't be invited under their groups, if they want an invite it should come from BST or you would end up just having a room full of BST bods

The MSG is different as they represent a younger more vocal crowd

Remember the avftt 9 when 6 were BSA members

Its ridiculous
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Well that's a nice and convenient way to look at if you are the MSG, but probably not particularly convenient if you are the TK's...

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you by the way, but what is it exactly that differentiates the TK's and the MSG?

You say they 'represent' a more younger and vocal group and maybe they do, but on what basis? Is that representation that the leadership has just assumed? What is the process for establishing agreement on a range of topics .... Do members have a democratic vote or does the leadership wield unlimited powers of discretion, granted by the membership?... What is the membership and how do you become a member? Is membership open to anyone? Is a place on the leadership team open to anyone? Can someone be a Member of the MSG and BST at the same time?

The Club can't just make arbitrary decisions to treat one group differently to another, unless that group can clearly demonstrate why they are different, demonstrate a level of competence and responsibility etc.. and communication also needs to be a two way street... i.e. The Club may also want to seek help from the MSG or BST in dealing with fan related issues.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Well that's a nice and convenient way to look at if you are the MSG, but probably not particularly convenient if you are the TK's...

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you by the way, but what is it exactly that differentiates the TK's and the MSG?

You say they 'represent' a more younger and vocal group and maybe they do, but on what basis? Is that representation that the leadership has just assumed? What is the process for establishing agreement on a range of topics .... Do members have a democratic vote or does the leadership wield unlimited powers of discretion, granted by the membership?... What is the membership and how do you become a member? Is membership open to anyone? Is a place on the leadership team open to anyone? Can someone be a Member of the MSG and BST at the same time?

The Club can't just make arbitrary decisions to treat one group differently to another, unless that group can clearly demonstrate why they are different, demonstrate a level of competence and responsibility etc.. and communication also needs to be a two way street... i.e. The Club may also want to seek help from the MSG or BST in dealing with fan related issues.
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You are getting all wrapped in membership and constitution issues

Just because BST is a Trust under the FSA umbrella doesn't mean they are more worthy than a group like the MSG

I have no doubt the MSG represent more people, surely that should count for something

Anyway I'm busy now

I will leave it to you to try and make sense of it all and what's best for the entire Blackpool fanbase as we simple can't go back to the days of BSA and the old boys network
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
You getting all wrapped in membership and constitution issues

Just because BST is a Trust under the FSA umbrella doesn't mean they are more worthy than a group like the MSG

I have no doubt the MSG represent more people, surely that should count for something

Anyway I'm busy now

I will leave it to you to try and make sense of it all and what's best for the entire Blackpool fanbase as we simple can't go back to the days of BSA and the old boys network
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Of course I'm getting wrapped up in Membership and Constitution issues, because without that, the MSG are no different than any other individual or small group who pipes up and says they represent a load of other people.

The thing is you are not holding the MSG to the same standards that you expect from other groups that you have automatically decided are 'Not Worthy' just because you don't like them.

And of course a properly constituted and openly democratic organisation, that can demonstrate a subscribed membership, documented members meetings and actively seeks input from it's membership and the wider fanbase is going to be be looked upon differently than a loosely associated group with none of that....

I mean if I said to you right now.. "Prove to me who the MSG actually represent" how would you do it?

Steve has already said that he doesn't see us going back to the days of BSA.... And I'm not suggesting that we should.... I'm simply saying that you can't just arbitrarily give time to one group and deny time to another on the basis of whether or not you personally like that group or not.... As I see it each 'Group' needs to be able to demonstrate their credibility as a group...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Of course I'm getting wrapped up in Membership and Constitution issues, because without that, the MSG are no different than any other individual or small group who pipes up and says they represent a load of other people.

The thing is you are not holding the MSG to the same standards that you expect from other groups that you have automatically decided are 'Not Worthy' just because you don't like them.

And of course a properly constituted and openly democratic organisation, that can demonstrate a subscribed membership, documented members meetings and actively seeks input from it's membership and the wider fanbase is going to be be looked upon differently than a loosely associated group with none of that....

I mean if I said to you right now.. "Prove to me who the MSG actually represent" how would you do it?

Steve has already said that he doesn't see us going back to the days of BSA.... And I'm not suggesting that we should.... I'm simply saying that you can't just arbitrarily give time to one group and deny time to another on the basis of whether or not you personally like that group or not.... As I see it each 'Group' needs to be able to demonstrate their credibility as a group...
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You’ve just reminded me I’ve got to pay my subs and renew my BASIL membership. So they at least can confirm their membership and secure a place “at the top table” along with BST 👍

Edit to add: You make a very good point though. What’s the difference between a “supporters’ group” and a loose collection of like minded fans? At the very least I’d have thought a supporters group should be able to prove their membership. And personally I don’t think membership of a Facebook page would be enough to constitute a membership. Otherwise Avftt could argue it’s also a supporters group. And if that was the case who would be our spokesperson?
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So it's obvious that the Club might engage in different level communication with Geoff's Mini Bus Crew than it might with BST.
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Geoff's minibus crew probably attend more away games than the BST committee put together.
And are probably therefore more on the ball about many issues.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I said I wasn't commenting again 🤣

The point from Ash just shows why it doesn't work inviting all and sundry as it waters down the crowd

Ash has admitted he's a BST member, no doubt Wizaard is as well from the Yorkshire lot as well as that nob from the TKs (not Koudo btw)

They 100% shouldn't be invited under their groups, if they want an invite it should come from the BST pool or you would end up just having a room full of BST bods

The MSG is different as they represent a younger more vocal crowd

Remember the avftt 9 when 6 were BSA members

Its ridiculous as is the fans forum and the way questions have to be sent in

I agree the whole thing needs a re think but not in terms of just dealing with one group because they have a different status
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How old is 'younger more vocal crowd'?

Because from what I can see, it's run by fella's in their 40's? Not sure that's younger.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I said I wasn't commenting again 🤣

The point from Ash just shows why it doesn't work inviting all and sundry as it waters down the crowd

Ash has admitted he's a BST member, no doubt Wizaard is as well from the Yorkshire lot as well as that nob from the TKs (not Koudo btw)

They 100% shouldn't be invited under their groups, if they want an invite it should come from the BST pool or you would end up just having a room full of BST bods

The MSG is different as they represent a younger more vocal crowd

Remember the avftt 9 when 6 were BSA members

Its ridiculous as is the fans forum and the way questions have to be sent in

I agree the whole thing needs a re think but not in terms of just dealing with one group because they have a different status
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I can't make out whether I'm agreeing with you here or not. I've already posted that I believe that everyone should be a BST member and that, if people want to be members of Muckers, Knights etc then they should be able to be both and if, for example, Muckers members' want to block vote as that group then fine. As long as BST represents all fans, either as individuals or through their groups, then we would be the stronger for it.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
You’ve just reminded me I’ve got to pay my subs and renew my BASIL membership. So they at least can confirm their membership and secure a place “at the top table” along with BST 👍

Edit to add: You make a very good point though. What’s the difference between a “supporters’ group” and a loose collection of like minded fans? At the very least I’d have thought a supporters group should be able to prove their membership. And personally I don’t think membership of a Facebook page would be enough to constitute a membership. Otherwise Avftt could argue it’s also a supporters group. And if that was the case who would be our spokesperson?
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Paulco
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I can't make out whether I'm agreeing with you here or not. I've already posted that I believe that everyone should be a BST member and that, if people want to be members of Muckers, Knights etc then they should be able to be both and if, for example, Muckers members' want to block vote as that group then fine. As long as BST represents all fans, either as individuals or through their groups, then we would be the stronger for it.
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So I've confused you

That will do for me mate
 
Mexboroseasider said:
You’ve just reminded me I’ve got to pay my subs and renew my BASIL membership. So they at least can confirm their membership and secure a place “at the top table” along with BST 👍

Edit to add: You make a very good point though. What’s the difference between a “supporters’ group” and a loose collection of like minded fans? At the very least I’d have thought a supporters group should be able to prove their membership. And personally I don’t think membership of a Facebook page would be enough to constitute a membership. Otherwise Avftt could argue it’s also a supporters group. And if that was the case who would be our spokesperson?
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Not Mr Deux that's for sure.
 
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