coppiceman
Well-known member
I did a bit of research. if anything, I've understated it. Certainly in terms of average wage bills I'm pretty close.
So ultimately the season ticket pricing policy
- Thread starter Phil_bfc deux
- Start date
I did a bit of research. if anything, I've understated it. Certainly in terms of average wage bills I'm pretty close.
td53
Well-known member
But tbe wider context of the club is
5 years of almost no new support
1 uninspiring season
1 inspiring season behind closed doors.
It's like people just refer to whether they can afford or not, without considering the broader context of the support that we've missed out on.
Get more people in the ground sell more pies, ale, shirts. Build demand, build an event. It maybe the going rate, but as we all know, we're in a town that doesn't earn at the going rate and that has been particularly battered economically.
Of course the club has struggled too, but so have the fan base.
P
Plumbs
Guest
A good innings but no-one has mentioned inflation busting pensions yet.
Until now.
Until now.
coppiceman
Well-known member
I think you are overlooking the quantum leap in budgets from L1 to the Championship. Iff we want to compete, we need far more revenue than we currently get, it's a simple as that.
The OP is consistent - he wants - actually demands - the highest possible standards on the field. He just doesn't want to pay his fair share towards getting it. He seems to want the owner to cover the bill - an owner he has sniped at fairly consistently ever since he took the club on.
Dave62
Well-known member
- £2.3m loss last season due to Covid
- We need to be more competitive with salaries to retain /recruit players
- £359 ( unless renewed at £339) same price as the previous regime several (10?) years ago
I can't recall cat a, B, c games at BR, so no idea how that will work out.
Potg seems a bit steep to me, but I haven't looked at other championship club prices to compare. At £15.60 per match with a £359 ST, I would say that £25 Potg would have been more realistic in terms of attracting higher crowds.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
12000 people paying 250 earns the club more than 8000 paying 350
And then there is the secondary spend ....
Basics ....
Wizaard
Well-known member
Are there a third more fans out there willing to pay £250?
I'm guessing the club might have done some research. Basics...
poolseasider
Well-known member
Not a chance we would have sold 12k even at 250 and one major flaw at that price it's so flaming cheap people can afford to miss loads of game the secondary spend then gets hit.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
I actually demand the highest possible standards i life, don't we all
And i certainly have paid towards the club
2 season tickets last season where i didn't go to a single match with them and 4 season tickets this season knowing i will only be able to attend probably a 3rd of the home games
As for the owner thats just bollux
You really need to stop making things up
coppiceman
Well-known member
Well there was that Survey that the OP reckons is to blame, for a start....
Don't recall Phil writing that he thought the owner should spend more, as a fan base compared to say Newcastle or Sunderland not many of us ask for the owners to fund things.
Years of conditioning from the Oystons hard to shake off!!
BFC_53
Well-known member
We have this debate every year and I get where people are coming from. But my view is and always has been that within reason, a successful football team will always bring in more fans than a cheaper price will. The reason is that to many people, it isn't that they can't afford it, it's that they don't prioritise it in their budget. Unless the team is doing well.
There are always different calculations put forward about maximising revenue etc. but they are mostly complete guesses because it's very difficult to know how many fans would attend at what prices, so it's pretty pointless speculation really.
One thing I will say is that I think the matchday prices should be released at the same time as season ticket prices to help fans make an informed decision, particularly ones that may not be able to attend every single game.
There are always different calculations put forward about maximising revenue etc. but they are mostly complete guesses because it's very difficult to know how many fans would attend at what prices, so it's pretty pointless speculation really.
One thing I will say is that I think the matchday prices should be released at the same time as season ticket prices to help fans make an informed decision, particularly ones that may not be able to attend every single game.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
Yeah the BST survey with the SLO banging the clubs drum
CalderwoodCritchleyWon’t
Well-known member
More absolute contrary bollocks from someone desperate to be proven right all the time.
Forget COVID and the economic impact on many of us not to mention the obvious health concerns..
No... it’s because they were £50 more than the op though they should be??????
** horseshit
Forget COVID and the economic impact on many of us not to mention the obvious health concerns..
No... it’s because they were £50 more than the op though they should be??????
** horseshit
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
Yes, we've been here before and I always agree with you and folk always slate Phil.
Although I think the prices are fair and the numbers seem fine, I am like you - and I assume Phil - in that I'm always with getting as many supporters in the ground as possible with the same revenues, basically I'd say better to have 10,000 paying £200 than 5,000 paying £400.
I know it's not as simple as my above example and that the club will never know the perfect price but I don't think that was their aim.
To be fair, there are plenty who would be against - or should I say think that the club can price better - a get as many in as possible pricing strategy.
I know Wiz is not the brightest but he speaks of the failure of such a pricing strategy at both Bradford and Huddersfield and he'd have the local knowledge, no but seriously maybe clubs have decided that it just doesn't work.
If I had known we were going to that terrible categorising thing, and I had known the prices we were looking at, I probably would have bought a season ticket even though I will probably miss 10 home games.
td53
Well-known member
The quantum leap in budgets is leavened by £7mill+ in TV money. We also see the clubs salable assets rise considerably in value.
My basic maths estimates the extra prices work out at somewhere around 380k income IF all matchday tickets are sold every game .
That's not insignificant but it doesn't bridge tbe gap you describe. What bridges the gap in the longer term is growing the fanbase. Which, unfortunately is an investment. Just like a player is.
If we want football to be priced fairly,we can't just all accept 'the going rate' and then complain that no magic fairy came along to fix it for us.
I'm also not Phil. I do happen to agree with him here and I have consistently agreed with him on ticket prices since post boycott. What his posting style is like is irrelevant to the issue at hand. The access of football to the broadest range of people is more important to me than whether or not agreeing with Phil on the internet is in or out this week.
I have written to the club about this, I have posed a question via the SLO and have also written to BST in the past about some kind of credit scheme or similar. I've noted this week what Motherwell have done. If the prices are, what the prices are then we,as a fanbase need to look at how we can bridge gaps and make football accessible.
Maybe that's where we need to go next because however we talk about ourselves and the going rates and what level of football we're playing, Blackpool still has some of the most deprived areas in the country and covid has only made that more evident and to me, matchday ticket prices are really, really important when people are blocked from season tickets via credit issues etc.
If we want an east stand and we want to establish ourselves as a going concern, we need a base of more than 7.5k.
I'm not expecting Sadler to pay for my ticket and give me a free pie and sign Mpabbe. I'm suggesting that investment in ticket prices could be very important in building the fanbase.
It's that latter point that I think others overlook - i.e. that they as a dedicated Blackpool fan are happy to pay x or y. That's great, but we are only going to take the club so far between us.
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
Phil
I think you make good points and I'm generally in agreement with you on these matters but are you sure that the survey was a bad thing ?
Regardless of what anybody thought/thinks about the prices, the survey did enable communication between the supporters and the club.
Did the survey result in the club setting higher prices than they would have done ?
I'm not sure.
Simonized
Well-known member
Very very doubtful.
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
td53
Good points as always.
Just on Motherwell, did you mean the free season tickets for last years punters or the fund raising for the less fortunate supporters ?
Born_in_the_Fifties
Well-known member
Fans who are not happy with the match prices should drink one less pint of ale in the pub every fortnight.
That'll save 'em about a fiver, reduce their anxieties and improve their overall health at the same time.
td53
Well-known member
The fundraising from within the fanbase, done in coordination with the club. I know BST have bought some tickets to be used in a similar way but the scale of the Motherwell effort is much bigger.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
People are just being selfish, happy that they can afford a season ticket with a few thousand others
Its always been that way with their small club mentality and Oyston brainwashing
7500 season tickets is neither here nor there
Can't fund a club on that number and with the match day prices being so high we are basically hamstrung in terms of building the fan base or getting maximum attendances
I want us to be the best that we can be, i want a rocking Bloomfield Road with an increased home fanbase
Building up support that we have lost over the Oyston years
If we can't do it now we are Oyston free and in the Championship when can we do it
I don't really care what other clubs do .. they all get it wrong also
How many teams in the EFL sell out week in week out
You can count on one hand ...
Its always been that way with their small club mentality and Oyston brainwashing
7500 season tickets is neither here nor there
Can't fund a club on that number and with the match day prices being so high we are basically hamstrung in terms of building the fan base or getting maximum attendances
I want us to be the best that we can be, i want a rocking Bloomfield Road with an increased home fanbase
Building up support that we have lost over the Oyston years
If we can't do it now we are Oyston free and in the Championship when can we do it
I don't really care what other clubs do .. they all get it wrong also
How many teams in the EFL sell out week in week out
You can count on one hand ...
Insider
Well-known member
Simple answer to that one is:
"No there aren't".
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
td53
Good points as I said and I agree with what you say but how do we/the club know the price that will result in the highest revenues ?
I appreciate that you don't have to be able to provide an answer for your the points that you make to be relevant but as I've already said above, Wiz knows his onions and he's not having a fill the ground up at a low price strategy.
Insider
Well-known member
Good point.
coppiceman
Well-known member
You behave as though you are the only one who ever forked out anything.
And you do talk the club down. Regularly.
bfcfan 1960
Well-known member
we wont sell 12,000 season tickets even at a reduced rate it just wouldnt happen at this moment in time.
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
Yes, I believe they had raised about £60k at some point last week and there were still folk coming forward offering to pay for a whole family etc, etc.
I was only going to mention that they are giving last years season ticket holders a free ticket this year but I'm not sure that would have been possible without the sale of David Turnbull, he got injured and although I think they ended up getting less than they had previously anticipated, he is doing really well and they are likely to get all the add ons, I don't know how much exactly but probably £3.5m - £4m.
I've shifted things a little there but yes what you say re the fundraising is what BST do.
poolseasider
Well-known member
Where on earth are you drinking this is Blackpool I can get 2 pints for fiver.Fans who are not happy with the match prices should drink one less pint of ale in the pub every fortnight.
That'll save 'em about a fiver, reduce their anxieties and improve their overall health at the same time.
coppiceman
Well-known member
td53
I think it is £4.5m, not £7m. But the average wage bill in the CC is around £30m, isn't it?
The real cost of being competitive in this Division is going to fall on the owner. We're arguing about how big our smallish slice of the cake is going to be. I think it should be considerably higher than it has been in the last couple of years to reflect promotion and the fact we want to stay up now we have made it there.
I think it is £4.5m, not £7m. But the average wage bill in the CC is around £30m, isn't it?
The real cost of being competitive in this Division is going to fall on the owner. We're arguing about how big our smallish slice of the cake is going to be. I think it should be considerably higher than it has been in the last couple of years to reflect promotion and the fact we want to stay up now we have made it there.
td53
Well-known member
We don't, but we also know that simply referencing the 'going rate' is flawed as Blackpool is not a town that earns at the 'going rate'
Bristol for example is cited above. It's a town with a hell of a lot more money (and people) in it, that draws on a much broader area as well.
Maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. It just doesn't feel right to me and as I said above, the potential sums gained aren't that big and thus the risk of capping matchday tickets or an 18-21 price or whatever are quite small and the potential rewards (in long term) are quite big.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
The simple answer is
You don't know ..
14k home fans for the first game back, 12k season ticket holders in the Prem season
3 x 30k Wembley attendances
The support is there its how the club taps into it, thats the challenge
Just doing the same old thing doesn't wash
Toastrack
Well-known member
No it isn't, it's pretty damn good.
Remember beating Yeovil and getting promoted to the second tier for the first time in 29 years?
The link - I think Hertford posted it a few days back - shows that in the 3 Championship seasons afterwards, the average crowd was just over 8,400.
Including the season we got promoted to the Prem.
So we've nearly matched 2007-10 on season tickets alone.
Yes, now that we've lost the Odious Owner, core demand may be higher.
But as others have said, this pandemic malarky & its economic effect will have deterred people.
IMO the season ticket pricing policy has been proven to be well judged.
England historical attendance and performance
european-football-statistics.co.uk
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
So a couple of hundred grand is a drop in the ocean and means fuck all
Hence why the long term gain of building our fanbase is far more important
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
Yes, that's fair enough.
There's a snobbery re cheaper prices but it does get folk in the ground and some who wouldn't otherwise be there are willing to attend because of the price - many of those who could afford to pay a higher price wouldn't be willing to do so but would happily jump at a lower price.
I think that getting people in the ground who wouldn't otherwise be there is a good thing but some are of the opinion that they are not supporters if they are only there because it is cheap.
I had first hand evidence of this when Koko did the £153 deal, a couple I know who wouldn't have been there but for the low price were criticised because they were, "Only there because of the price".
I'm chunnering again, yes we don't know the perfect price but you make good points.
Insider
Well-known member
I was going to say go back in history and prove me wrong but so much has changed in Blackpool over the many years that I've been going that would be unfair to both points of view.
Yes of course we drum up support for the big occasions just like "millions" of people became football fans last Sunday.
But they don't stay around and they certainly don't buy season tickets.
I can't give you any proof other than what I see with my own eyes.
I just have a different point of view to you but just like you I can't prove it so you'll just have to accept I'm right.
Born_in_the_Fifties
Well-known member
So if you aren't happy and you save a fiver, then you'll be double healthierWhere on earth are you drinking this is Blackpool I can get 2 pints for fiver.
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
The club have made season tickets prices very fair. They’ve made child’s prices even more affordable. They’re encouraging future generations and supporting parents to do so too.
By charging higher rates for match day tickets they can pull in money from the fans if other clubs. They can also bring in money from fans who ultimately jump on the back of any long term success.
It’s true that those higher match day tickets may hurt some Blackpool fans who can only afford to go to games on a game by game basis but it’s a balancing act the club has to perform and in my opinion has performed well.
We’d all like cheaper tickets and busier stadiums but the club needs to operate as a business and needs to limit losses whilst remaining on a stable financial footing. That comes before idealistic hopes for £250 season tickets and £20 match day tickets and capacity crowds. The fact is that isn’t going to happen.
By charging higher rates for match day tickets they can pull in money from the fans if other clubs. They can also bring in money from fans who ultimately jump on the back of any long term success.
It’s true that those higher match day tickets may hurt some Blackpool fans who can only afford to go to games on a game by game basis but it’s a balancing act the club has to perform and in my opinion has performed well.
We’d all like cheaper tickets and busier stadiums but the club needs to operate as a business and needs to limit losses whilst remaining on a stable financial footing. That comes before idealistic hopes for £250 season tickets and £20 match day tickets and capacity crowds. The fact is that isn’t going to happen.
td53
Well-known member
It's about 7m when you combine TV and solidarity payments.
I'm not arguing about how much it costs me. It's about the strategy to grow the fanbase.
JJpool
Well-known member
I think the club have put our a pricing structure that for Blackpool is at the max of what people can afford in normal times in the championship.
Blackpool is at the bottom of these wealth lists and that should be factored in, its not well off at all.
But we now have had a pandemic and lots losing jobs and struggling. The tourism sector hit very hard and Blackpool is probably the highest town for work in that sector.
So the pricing given that and Blackpools wealth seems excessive and not sure who decided it, but I think they have misread the situation a bit.
Saying that 7.5k sold and will be 8k with corporate.
Pay on the day can be 20 quid, or 24 for most the season which seems fair given it was 20 in league 1.
Rangers friendly 20 quid though.... not sure whats going on but the strategy should be to fill the stadium not price it high, even though the cash could be the same.
But for eg if we have 10,000 home fans and 2500 away paying £10 that's 125,000.
Given 20 quid we may only get 5000 home fans and 2500 away. £150,000
The difference is probably made up in higher sales of merchandise and food and drink etc.
Not getting this higher price structure strategy....
Blackpool is at the bottom of these wealth lists and that should be factored in, its not well off at all.
But we now have had a pandemic and lots losing jobs and struggling. The tourism sector hit very hard and Blackpool is probably the highest town for work in that sector.
So the pricing given that and Blackpools wealth seems excessive and not sure who decided it, but I think they have misread the situation a bit.
Saying that 7.5k sold and will be 8k with corporate.
Pay on the day can be 20 quid, or 24 for most the season which seems fair given it was 20 in league 1.
Rangers friendly 20 quid though.... not sure whats going on but the strategy should be to fill the stadium not price it high, even though the cash could be the same.
But for eg if we have 10,000 home fans and 2500 away paying £10 that's 125,000.
Given 20 quid we may only get 5000 home fans and 2500 away. £150,000
The difference is probably made up in higher sales of merchandise and food and drink etc.
Not getting this higher price structure strategy....
I thought there might be a PAYG membership as a sort of next level down thing if you can't do a ST. Categorising games to try and charge away fans more too is alright until the away team reciprocates at their place. Fleece the nobbers first up and everyone will be having a jolly good laugh about it but there'll be moaning when they do it to us for the return game.
Have some concerns over the covid situation health-wise and with stadiums remaining open to capacity without limits being re-introduced anyway for now so play it by ear really.
In life in general you can't go wrong if you treat others as you want to be treated, maybe we should apply that to ticket prices as well, just because somebody supports one of the biggest clubs in the division or one of the smallest in the case of Preston the price at Blackpool should always be the same.
Wizaard
Well-known member
They're considering a membership scheme as a next level option.
But that is when we had 2 stands and the away end was a golf stand holding 1800 so we can't use those seasons as a comparison surely? I do agree that they have got their pricing structure right although I still think it should have been a wow price to get 10,000 ST holders in.
Wizaard
Well-known member
Rangers will get in the region of 5,000 tickets I would have thought, ie the whole of the East.
We'll probably sell something similar with a proportion of those being Gers infiltrators.
I'd be surprised if its not over 10,000. At £20 a go, it's a decent earner as well as a good test.
JJpool
Well-known member
Yes but its a friendly, im not liking the higher prices lower home fans attending, rather than reasonable price and more pool fans go.
For those which money is tight 20 quid for a friendly will probably say they won't bother, rather than the impulse buy price of a tenner say and dill the stadium.
We should be building the fanbase and the higher price route isn't the best way to do that.
For me either someone is a bit out of touch with the area or has chosen a poor strategy imo. Mansford?
P
Plumbs
Guest
Lots of options on memberships and also on indirect forms of income, one would be having a supporters bar midweek on a say monthly basis to raise money. Open to members and ST holders at an appropriate rate with two players and club staff in attendance, where for instance the Armfield Club could be utilised.
I'd also rebrand the Gold Bond and push that up a few notches and do things like bring a mate, and have a monster Christmas raffle.
Utilitising the fans groups at the structured dialogue meetings would be a key and making up the shortfalls (as discussed) would yield the monies lost.
I think the OP is onto something but it needs some proper planning and some genuine effort to find alternative ways to improve income. Isn't that what the SLO is for?
tangerinedreams
Well-known member
You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
Wiz
I'm not suggesting that they won't travel and that the ground won't be infiltrated but you do know that the "advice" is not to travel ?
They have been criticised for arranging the game and they are only allowed 2,000 - possibly less - at the home friendlies with Arsenal and Real Madrid so I can't see there being any official allocation.