Standard of Referees is getting/has got worse??

Bloodtangerine

Bloodtangerine

Well-known member
Seems to be a constant refrain on here.

on what objective evidence is that contention being based?

I think officials are pretty much the same as they’ve always been. It’s a tough job, they’re human, they will make mistakes as you and I do and as football players and Managers do. Typically 50% of “mistakes“ will harm a team and 50% will benefit a team.
 
Not denying it’s an awful job - and I often wonder why anyone’d want to do it.

On the other hand, and across all leagues, I do find of late there are perhaps those who’d like to raise their profile as individuals at the expense of the game they’re officiating.
 
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neyo said:
Absolutely. Had some terrible refs that have ruined games for us this season. Check this example from Saturday… One is a penalty, one isn’t… Eh?


I don’t know why it feels worse, but it sure feels that way.
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There's a big difference there though surely?

I mean one looks like the player purposefully dives and grabs the ball, the other looks like an uncontrolled slip.

It's also not entirely clear from the images above where exactly the ball touches the player....
 
Be interested to know whether there's a dearth of "applicants for the job" these days and therefore the pool and quality of referees is a lot lower than it used to be? Personally feel the quality is less than it used to be...every week there's at least a couple of major talking points. The best refs are the ones you never notice but these days they're more involved in the game than half our starting XI!
 
Schalke_FY4 said:
Be interested to know whether there's a dearth of "applicants for the job" these days and therefore the pool and quality of referees is a lot lower than it used to be? Personally feel the quality is less than it used to be...every week there's at least a couple of major talking points. The best refs are the ones you never notice but these days they're more involved in the game than half our starting XI!
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That’s a good point - what kinda money do these guys even receive?
 
neyo said:
I guess we have to agree to disagree there - to me, both players slip and impede the ball reaching the opponent for a likely shot and big chance.
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Yes... Looking at it from a neutral perspective, I think you're being biased there in all honesty. The referee is well placed for both and one is accidental and a player simply breaking his fall, the other is very obviously deliberate.

I'd be the same as you in the heat of the moment and if I'd been on the receiving end, but looking at it objectively I think the ref has made the right call.
 
I don't think that there is 'accidental' handball nowadays unless it diverts off another part of your body. Both penalties for me as the defender gains an advantage on each occasion.
 
Pace of the game and athleticism of the players now compared to that of the vast majority of the refs doesn’t help. Then factor in the buying fouls and decisions etc and it’s a pretty thankless job. How often do you leave a game saying ‘the ref had a great game’.

As has been discussed before, I enjoy the style and respect the ref has in rugby, wheee you hear them explain decisions. Easier game to ref to some degree, but the attitudes of players and supporters towards the referee probably helps them do the job better too.
 
OldTimer said:
I don't think that there is 'accidental' handball nowadays unless it diverts off another part of your body. Both penalties for me as the defender gains an advantage on each occasion.
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There's a specific rule in relation to handball and falling...

There will be no penalty if:

  • the ball touches a player's hand/arm immediately from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player.
  • the ball touches a player's hand/arm close to their body and has not made their silhouette unnaturally bigger.
  • a player is falling and the ball touches their hand/arm when it is between their body and the ground (but not extended to make the body bigger).
 
I thought last year it had got noticeably worse, and has continued to do so this. Just really poor refereeing, not letting the game flow and getting conned by cheating players. Agree with the 50% comment in the OP, and I certainly wouldn’t suggest that’s why we were relegated. But it’s starting to affect my enjoyment of the game
 
Bloodtangerine said:
Seems to be a constant refrain on here.

on what objective evidence is that contention being based?

I think officials are pretty much the same as they’ve always been. It’s a tough job, they’re human, they will make mistakes as you and I do and as football players and Managers do. Typically 50% of “mistakes“ will harm a team and 50% will benefit a team.
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We're not allowed to comment on refs. You told us the other night.
 
Bloodtangerine said:
Seems to be a constant refrain on here.

on what objective evidence is that contention being based?

I think officials are pretty much the same as they’ve always been. It’s a tough job, they’re human, they will make mistakes as you and I do and as football players and Managers do. Typically 50% of “mistakes“ will harm a team and 50% will benefit a team.
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I agree. I think we're just more attuned to outrage and we over analyse games. 40 years ago there were no phone ins, no nobhead bloggers or podcast bellends churning over games, no 24 hour sports media desperately scrambling for 'talking points' and no twitter amplifying it all. We also watched one or two games a week maximum and the coverage of those games was much less detailed. One or two camera angles.

I think possibly the above point that the game is faster is fair enough as does VAR and raised bar in terms of expectations that brings, but I think people's sense of outrage and need to express themselves relentlessly has a lot to do with it.
 
Sadly overall I have to say yes it has deteriorated. There are factors, like TDs examples - the over analysis of everything is a good one.

But that doesn't affect Div 3 games until after. We're 100% on the spot decisions, and the only gauge we have to how correct they are is the reaction of players, crowd, touchline etc. And even allowing for the obvious bias and the desire to sing you're not fit to referee, when you get reactions like Saturday then it's not looking good.

A question, does the absence of any technology mean that lower division refs, while meant to be trying to get up to top flight standard and above, actually mean they're better than the top ones. Assuming they get it right of course.

Personally I blame FIFA or uefa, whoever's fault it is that buggers around with rules every other year and takes away the element of a referee using common sense. Which most of them a while back were very good at.

It needs a panel of ex players creating to become refs, and the rules that have been tinkered to death putting back to back 20-30 years. And allowing a degree of physical contact wouldn't go amiss either.
 
neyo said:
That’s a good point - what kinda money do these guys even receive?
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According to the world wide web referees are on a retainer of about £38,000 to £42,000 with match fees of around £600 (£1150 in prem) . Refs in Spain get over £5000 a game!
 
The role of assistant referees is strange for me. They seem to do very little. Even for offside they now don’t flag immediately.

Surely they can be better utilised to assist the referee?
 
neyo said:
i think unless referees received ratings post match, it's hard to quantify. But i'd be up for something along those lines...
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I've tried to think this through a few times, and any kind of system which crowd-sources refereeing decisions is likely to be brigaded by groups of fans on the 'bad' end of a decision.

The alternative is that you, as a neutral, watch some decisions from a match you have no interest in, and then rate the ref -- but that just sounds boring if you don't have any skin in the game.

Difficult one to solve.
 
cside said:
I've tried to think this through a few times, and any kind of system which crowd-sources refereeing decisions is likely to be brigaded by groups of fans on the 'bad' end of a decision.

The alternative is that you, as a neutral, watch some decisions from a match you have no interest in, and then rate the ref -- but that just sounds boring if you don't have any skin in the game.

Difficult one to solve.
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Could there not be a panel, watching the game, or I dunno, 4th official or something? I agree, it'd ideally need to be centralised rather than fan led, but otherwise how do you separate the good from the bad? Moreover - how does a ref progress up the ladder? Do they get reviewed randomly or something? There must be some sort of way to be validated for some refs to make the prem and some stuff down the pyramid?
 
Haven’t seen many good ones for a couple of years but some are truly dreadful. They seem to think that they are what the crowd have paid to see and behave like jobsworth parking wardens.
 
I'd love to know what Blackpool fan Kyle Bell thinks of referee performance, he's a level 1 ref so should have a better understanding.
 
1. Players used to get away with all sorts so refs had to do less to keep a game flowing without controversy.

2. Every twunt has the means to make their views known.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
Pace of the game and athleticism of the players now compared to that of the vast majority of the refs doesn’t help. Then factor in the buying fouls and decisions etc and it’s a pretty thankless job. How often do you leave a game saying ‘the ref had a great game’.

As has been discussed before, I enjoy the style and respect the ref has in rugby, wheee you hear them explain decisions. Easier game to ref to some degree, but the attitudes of players and supporters towards the referee probably helps them do the job better too.
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The buying of fouls could be combated by allowing the game to carry on for 30 seconds.
If after that time the player is still down stop the game and get him checked out if he requires treatment so be it, if not then he's removed from the field of play (sin bin) for 5 minutes. The 4th official could keep an eye on said player incase it is a serious injury and inform referee immediately.
The times players go down and wave their hand in the air / hit the ground waiting for the magic sponge only to have a better recovery than Lazerus is embarrassing and their play acting could jeopardise a genuine injury being treated.
You can only cry wolf so many times.
 
Insider said:
So what does the referee that you know think about this?
Have you ever shared a controversial BFC decision with him for his view?
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I’ve never asked him that actual question but tbh I would treat that info as confidential of course as he’s a mate and I would not want to cause him any problems Insider
 
Like the standard of Cummings and Johnson the standard of refereeing in L 1 is appalling, not fit for purpose and certainly far from professionally competent
 
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