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Time Madine was rested?

WeststandRob

Well-known member
Last night he was not in the game....beaten to most headers and imo not Mobile enough. We have several lads out on loan Apter and Bange who would relish the chance.
 

Junior_BentsPlatformShoes

Well-known member
I think he must have stayed on to help the defence with corners. Goal Machine I think not.
I think Critchley definitely sees his defensive and physical duties as important as goal scoring - we don't have anyone else like him in the team against physically strong teams in this division, with there being quite a lot of them. I guess it means that he's going to need resting though.
 

basilexile

Well-known member
I think Critchley definitely sees his defensive and physical duties as important as goal scoring - we don't have anyone else like him in the team against physically strong teams in this division, with there being quite a lot of them. I guess it means that he's going to need resting though.
In games where we need the defensive cover we should play three at the back. Both Gabriel and James can support the midfield and attacking options. I just don't feel Madine is giving us enough at the end that matters. We need more goal threat on the pitch. All of course with the usual caveat that the manager knows best.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Played a Premier League team last night and people are trying to pull players apart.
Bowler on one thread and now Madine you lot need to get real.
Yep…. We’re always going to be at the very limit of our capabilities in a game like last night. What it showed up for me in particular was how well drilled the side is as a unit, despite some of the limitations of individual players.

We could have won the game, but equally so could West Brom….

We are potentially one or two players off being able to mount a real challenge in this league. January could be very interesting, particularly if we can stay in touch with the play off pack👍
 

Brett scores for fun

Well-known member
Big Gaz was on to rebut the threat from those big galoots last night and he did his job well.
To prevent those giants from having a single decent header on goal, despite long throws and high crosses, was work very well done, by him and all our defenders.
Gaz had one golden opportunity to lay it on a plate for Josh, but took the wrong option - that's life.
Aptor and Bange cannot yet replace the physical presence and guile of Gaz just yet, but hopefully their time will come.
We certainly need to start scoring more goals & that's a task for Critch and his coaching staff to sort out asap.
Josh's touch was off last nice but he and Keshie are still pour best threat against the opposition.
Bring on the Brummies
 

Potts Must Go

Well-known member
It was correct to play him last night against WBA. Remember he scored a very good goal against then in the FA Cup in January.

Pool your dead right

I've got a feeling he might have taken a knock last night, in the first half he rolled his ankle according to Ormerod in commentary and then seemed to be off the game a little bit after that for a while. Nearly scored a blinder just on HT though. Fine margins and all that. I thought we were brilliant last night and if their keeper hadn't made that save from Madine, or CJ's effort had gone in we could be talking about one of the best wins in recent times.

Jesus Christ, some posters on this sight even preferred staying at home last night because of parking difficulties. I give up as well
 
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1950`spoolfan

Well-known member
Yep I have posted elsewhere how disappointing Madine was going forward last night and the same was certainly true of Bowler whilst the defence was magnificent.

I don`t get the idea that on here we can`t identify the failings as well as praising the strengths of the team.Surely that`s what this site is for, to hear a range of opinions.
 

NewburyOne

Well-known member
West Brom are a very physical team, he battled well and held the ball up a few times, pity Bowler couldn't produce much with the service he was given. It's all positive though, Lavery will benefit massively from the start and it's great to see CJ back. Hopefully both Maxwell and Keogh will be available on Saturday for what looks like a big game against a Brum side struggling with injuries and suspensions after another red card last night.
 

Farm1924x

Well-known member
Second half looked off the pace. Big Gaz usually gives us plenty against big strong defenders but wasn’t his usual menacing self last night
 

poolseasider

Well-known member
Yep I have posted elsewhere how disappointing Madine was going forward last night and the same was certainly true of Bowler whilst the defence was magnificent.

I don`t get the idea that on here we can`t identify the failings as well as praising the strengths of the team.Surely that`s what this site is for, to hear a range of opinions.
Fine with that but you also have to take into consideration the quality of the opposition if we'd have been playing Barnsley for example and Madine/Bowler had been poor but we weren't.
West Brom are a yo-yo side who can keep the neclues of their side because of the PL money and until that dries up they will normally be better than most.
 

Stony Hill

Well-known member
His inclusion last night must have been influenced by the fact that they had some very big units on set pieces. Allardyce legacy. He played a full part with some nice touches and layoffs. Mind you, he should have put in Bowler instead of turning and shooting in the second half.
Not so sure on your first point, Wizz. And your second is correct but one of those things that happen - wise after the fact.
I’m reaching the point where I don’t want GM in the team. I’m preferring nippy strikers or the mobility and higher goal tally of Simms. And, not forgetting Jerry did better when Simms settled.
 

This is Ska

Well-known member
His inclusion last night must have been influenced by the fact that they had some very big units on set pieces. Allardyce legacy. He played a full part with some nice touches and layoffs. Mind you, he should have put in Bowler instead of turning and shooting in the second half.
Yep, that was one of 2 moments in the 2nd half where composure was needed in the box, the other being CJ who had a lot more time than he realised.
 

CGP1

Well-known member
I think by his own admission he was off the pace earlier, after such a long layoff. But as his match fitness had improved, so has his working their back lines.

Last night he scrapped great on the deck and got our width into play loads of times. Won a few headers as well.

The bit of Gaz that puzzles me is when he doesn't win them. Quite a lot of the time, he seems to start in the wrong position, at best off the shoulder of the defender, sometimes completely behind him. He's got no chance from there.

Ok maybe the defender's doing his job well and has won that battle. If it's a quick ball out he hasn't a chance to adjust. But if Maxi/Grim are clearing long then, unless we're trying to hit the width direct, then Gaz is the target and he has time to get in front.

And yes of course it's not always possible because they're doubled up on him either side, and all he can hope there is to suck them in which does great. I'm only meaning when he's 1-1.
 

Vince McLean

Well-known member
Some big ugly sides in this league - Stoke, Cardiff, WBA. Big Gaz in there to kick and elbow shit out of them. Get your revenge in first. Might be an idea to play Crazy Uncle Richard upfront in some of those game - he'll sort them out.
 

Stony Hill

Well-known member
Plenty of you want him in the team but I don’t.
Anybody got any data for goals scored with GM in the team and without? As a ratio, cos he’s started a lot more than he’s been left out.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I think by his own admission he was off the pace earlier, after such a long layoff. But as his match fitness had improved, so has his working their back lines.

Last night he scrapped great on the deck and got our width into play loads of times. Won a few headers as well.

The bit of Gaz that puzzles me is when he doesn't win them. Quite a lot of the time, he seems to start in the wrong position, at best off the shoulder of the defender, sometimes completely behind him. He's got no chance from there.

Ok maybe the defender's doing his job well and has won that battle. If it's a quick ball out he hasn't a chance to adjust. But if Maxi/Grim are clearing long then, unless we're trying to hit the width direct, then Gaz is the target and he has time to get in front.

And yes of course it's not always possible because they're doubled up on him either side, and all he can hope there is to suck them in which does great. I'm only meaning when he's 1-1.
nature of the game is that centre halves always win more of the long balls hit forward.
 

Mark_GT

Well-known member
nature of the game is that centre halves always win more of the long balls hit forward.
Plus it doesn't always necessarily matter. They're unlikely to produce a well directed defensive header with Madine at them. Far easier against our smaller albeit more nimble forwards. Then our midfield etc can pick up the loose ball and go from there. I think this is a big part of the plan, I just wish sometimes we'd be even more direct when we pick up those scraps. Often we then build slowly and then, I feel, lose a bit of momentum. But there I go again. Critch knows best.
 

20togo

Well-known member
Plus it doesn't always necessarily matter. They're unlikely to produce a well directed defensive header with Madine at them. Far easier against our smaller albeit more nimble forwards. Then our midfield etc can pick up the loose ball and go from there. I think this is a big part of the plan, I just wish sometimes we'd be even more direct when we pick up those scraps. Often we then build slowly and then, I feel, lose a bit of momentum. But there I go again. Critch knows best.
agree. the title of the post is "time Madine was rested". He was at Swansea or doesn't that count? The fact is Critch values him and the evidence is pretty clear from the teams he picks is that it's all about the squad and in the case of the forwards about rotation. Madine is a big asset to the squad.
 

The_Busted_Flush

Well-known member
Personally I really like his play.

His ball control is excellent. If he gets the ball we’ll at least end up with a throw in or a corner in the vast majority of cases. He wins lots of free kicks, mastered the art of forcing fouls upon him. He bullies centre backs and offers physicality up the pitch, something we lack. He’s also a good finisher.

Of course he is very slow, and often lacks fitness.

For me though, I think he’s integral to the players around him.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
The idea that Madine should be rested doesn't make sense. He's a member of the squad and has a role to play. I just noticed that the post above describes him as a good finisher, I think that's highly debatable! But against certain sides in certain games he does a job nobody else can do for us. I think we need to improve our attacking options but at the minute we only have Lavery Yates and Madine and Yates struggles as a lone striker. Madine occupies defenders.
 

P t Barnum

Well-known member
I Don't know what some expect out of our centre forward last night was a massive game against a giant centre half and they weren't taking any prisoners ,giving it out at every opportunity, it was a really good point and the longer it went on the tougher that went at em.thought James was excellent too
 

Lytham_fy8

Well-known member
Yep…. We’re always going to be at the very limit of our capabilities in a game like last night. What it showed up for me in particular was how well drilled the side is as a unit, despite some of the limitations of individual players.

We could have won the game, but equally so could West Brom….

We are potentially one or two players off being able to mount a real challenge in this league. January could be very interesting, particularly if we can stay in touch with the play off pack👍
I agree and I honestly think a couple of good loans could get us comfortably in the top six.
 

Grayth

Well-known member
I'm really thinking of doing an AVFTT 'Bad Take XI'.

TBC

Marv - TBC - TBC - TBC

Garbutt/James - TBC - TBC - Sterling

Bowler - Bange
Could start @ing people to, to credit them.
Marv there is interesting. But have you seen his pace? I think he could play LW.

Maxwell on the bench with Grimshaw starting as well. Stick Apter in as captain cos he'd relish it.
 

Chunkylad

Well-known member
Please let’s not be so naive here.

They played 3 big and mobile centre backs. If the ball went aerial to Gaz then two big CBs contested with him for the header. If it went wide then the wing back had dropped in and was doubled up by the CB too (why Bowler struggled)

Just like Marv and Hubby snuffed out Phillips and their wonder kid RF they did the same to us. Shayne for all his aggression, pace and willing couldn’t trouble them either. It’s probably why Critch left Jerry on the bench as he couldn’t see how it would alter the status quo.

Sometimes you have to accept that opposition teams do a good defensive job on us. We are always a better team with a target man in it particularly as we play the ball around the back and then launch quick.
Occasionally it suits 4-5-1 but the vast majority of games suit a target man and not a number 10 and quick 9 in our formation.

Gaz struggled, Bowler struggled, Lavery struggled. Only Keshi got the better of his man on the evening
 

TimperleyTangerine

Well-known member
If anything, Madine benefits from game time. We are going to see Critch rotate his strikers, based on the opposition and what he thinks will work best.

Personally I want to see Jerry given a long run of games with a strike partner, because he’s our most natural goal scorer. Obvious to say, but we do need to score more goals.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
We are always a better team with a target man in it particularly as we play the ball around the back and then launch quick.
Occasionally it suits 4-5-1 but the vast majority of games suit a target man and not a number 10 and quick 9 in our formation.

Gaz struggled, Bowler struggled, Lavery struggled. Only Keshi got the better of his man on the evening
Our best performances are not always with a target man. And ultimately we need a mobile player up front who can finish, in my opinion. Mitrovic, Solanke, Gyokeres, Piroe. Simms.

Re Rob Apter. He looks bloody talented to be fair. It'll be interesting to see how high he gets in the football pyramid, and how soon. And what position he ends up playing. I think he's in tier 7 at present and will be 19 in January. Needs to be playing higher than tier 7 next season.
 

ksteve

Well-known member
Please let’s not be so naive here.

They played 3 big and mobile centre backs. If the ball went aerial to Gaz then two big CBs contested with him for the header. If it went wide then the wing back had dropped in and was doubled up by the CB too (why Bowler struggled)

Just like Marv and Hubby snuffed out Phillips and their wonder kid RF they did the same to us. Shayne for all his aggression, pace and willing couldn’t trouble them either. It’s probably why Critch left Jerry on the bench as he couldn’t see how it would alter the status quo.

Sometimes you have to accept that opposition teams do a good defensive job on us. We are always a better team with a target man in it particularly as we play the ball around the back and then launch quick.
Occasionally it suits 4-5-1 but the vast majority of games suit a target man and not a number 10 and quick 9 in our formation.

Gaz struggled, Bowler struggled, Lavery struggled. Only Keshi got the better of his man on the evening
We seem to forget that we are playing against teams that are, in theory, better than us and we are coming across teams that will have excellent defenders like the other night. But lets not forget we are becoming a match for these teams and are equalling these "big" clubs. We came away with 1 point the other night but it could have been 3. Trust our manager!
 

voyeur

Well-known member
I think Critch has done a great job with Madine. Given him his mojo back. He enjoys playing again and he's putting the effort in. He used to look half arsed. And Critch is getting the most out of him. Fair play to both of them.
 

Bottle

Well-known member
Time Madine or Time Machine?

We don’t have anyone else with his stature I suppose, as ever the temptation with having “the big fella up front” is to throw the ball up toward him, unfortunately he has a habit of too often being behind the defender.

But he is good on the deck and does draw defenders toward him at corners/free kicks, can hold the ball up and he is capable of nicking a goal here and there, just wish it were a little more often!
 
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