VAR yet again its hidious.

Simonized

Well-known member
City's 2nd and they really do need to get rid of this pile shit.............
Edited.
 
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Simonized

Well-known member
If you mean their 2nd it was the correct decision all round. The only people at fault were West Brom’s defenders for not playing to the whistle.
You can't blame them really as they are nearly all facing her when the flag goes up.
It's a natural reaction.
 

PNENIL

Well-known member
Don't get it? Var did it's job didn't it? Sian Massey got the call wrong which is very rare from her because she's excellent. The West Brom players stopped playing which is unforgivable. Totally their own fault.
 

Dollar Thief

Well-known member
The blame here is the dope's who stopped when the flag went up.

I was always told as a kid to play to the whistle.

I'd be embarrassed if I was a player and stopped because the flag went up.
 

JJpool

Well-known member
Hate var, ruins the moments of scoring and passion and stops the game way too long. Still gets some wrong anyway.

People called out for correct decisions but at what cost, most fans hate it who use it.
 

Realfish

Well-known member
Not excusing the Baggies players, but I thought that if the flag went up and the ref acknowledged the offside call, and blew his whistle as he did, that was it. The goal had to be disallowed. VAR should not haver been used.
The only way VAR could be enacted would be for the linesperson to have kept her flag down.
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
Not excusing the Baggies players, but I thought that if the flag went up and the ref acknowledged the offside call, and blew his whistle as he did, that was it. The goal had to be disallowed. VAR should not haver been used.
The only way VAR could be enacted would be for the linesperson to have kept her flag down.
Correct-both the ref and linesperson worked together and made a decision.

All VAR has done is take away some of the responsibility from the officials and taken refereeing into the stands/VAR centre,and the game is fast disappearing into something different.

People like Alan Shearer are to blame for this in demanding that video links were introduced to 'get the right decision' and it hasnt worked.
 

PoolBorn

Well-known member
Correct-both the ref and linesperson worked together and made a decision.

All VAR has done is take away some of the responsibility from the officials and taken refereeing into the stands/VAR centre,and the game is fast disappearing into something different.

People like Alan Shearer are to blame for this in demanding that video links were introduced to 'get the right decision' and it hasnt worked.
Wrong. The referee did not blow the whistle for offside, as confirmed by the commentators in the analysis at the time.
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
Wrong. The referee did not blow the whistle for offside, as confirmed by the commentators in the analysis at the time.
He did-watch the video again.He raised his arm too which indicates its an indirect free kick for offside and pointed across the line (of the offside)

He was overruled by the VAR who therefore took the decision away from him (and the liner) which for me undermines his authority.

Edit:double checked and what I'm saying is correct 0:46
 

PNENIL

Well-known member
People like Alan Shearer are to blame for this in demanding that video links were introduced to 'get the right decision' and it hasnt worked.
People like Alan Shearer? Why signal just him out for blame when nearly every manager in every after match interview banged on about video technology for ages and ages. They are the ones.
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
People like Alan Shearer? Why signal just him out for blame when nearly every manager in every after match interview banged on about video technology for ages and ages. They are the ones.
I agree (on the general point) but Shearer was the most vocal of pundits on this after a career of trying every trick in the book to gain an advantage, and in my view was a contributory factor into us getting VAR in the first place.

Has it improved the game? No-not one bit and at the FSA conference a vote was taken to curtail its effects.
 

BigHandsOliverKahn

Well-known member
I agree, it has been the TV companies and pundits wanting to impose their own over-inflated egos on the game, instead of just being observers, that has killed it as a spectacle. I think it has shown, we now understand and accept that human error is part of everyday life and should be part of football. Leave precision to things like computer systems.
 

PNENIL

Well-known member
I never wanted VAR and was opposed to the idea from the start because it would stop and start the game and spoil big goal moments. I still wish we could rewind the clock and go back but there's no chance of that now, the horse has bolted. All I wanted was goal line technology.
We will never go back now and the days of a pundit saying I think he was level so he must be onside are gone forever. So we have to make the best of it and look at the positives. Last night was a perfect example of people moaning for the sake of it because VAR was for the good last night and got it right. It gets most of it right , it's the disruption of the game and the joy spoiling I don't like but will have to get used to it. I did hope it would stop managers making excuses in after match interviews but some hope of that!
I'm off to check Shearers goal record against Leeds...he must have bagged a few to be the culprit here 😁
 

Rektseasider

Well-known member
He did-watch the video again.He raised his arm too which indicates its an indirect free kick for offside and pointed across the line (of the offside)

He was overruled by the VAR who therefore took the decision away from him (and the liner) which for me undermines his authority.

Edit:double checked and what I'm saying is correct 0:46
I don’t agree Plumbs, he let play continue and develop so both Man City and WBA could attack and defend respectively. Once the ball had gone ‘dead’ he made his decision that the player was offside, as the play had been allowed to develop, both sides had been given the opportunity to play the situation. After the ball was dead and a decision made VAR was brought in to check the official’s decision, there was clear evidence that the lad was onside, WBA had been given the opportunity to defend the play by the Ref who has ultimate control of the game, the assistants are into there to guide him.

The liner was wrong, the Ref was correct, VAR was used correctly, the outcome was correct.

Having said all that the way the powers that be have executed VAR has been a shambles. There’s little excuse that it’s a new technology in the game, as more or less every other major sport in the world issues similar technology in their game. The PL should and still could take the best bits of its use in different sports and apply it to the PL.
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
I don’t agree Plumbs, he let play continue and develop so both Man City and WBA could attack and defend respectively. Once the ball had gone ‘dead’ he made his decision that the player was offside, as the play had been allowed to develop, both sides had been given the opportunity to play the situation. After the ball was dead and a decision made VAR was brought in to check the official’s decision, there was clear evidence that the lad was onside, WBA had been given the opportunity to defend the play by the Ref who has ultimate control of the game, the assistants are into there to guide him.

The liner was wrong, the Ref was correct, VAR was used correctly, the outcome was correct.

Having said all that the way the powers that be have executed VAR has been a shambles. There’s little excuse that it’s a new technology in the game, as more or less every other major sport in the world issues similar technology in their game. The PL should and still could take the best bits of its use in different sports and apply it to the PL.
Like you said-he made his decision-and in that respect that decision was the one made on the field. The laws say 'in the opinion of the referee' but that's been tainted now because of the VAR nonsense and undermines the officials.

There was no need to use VAR in this instance and the whole commotion has been caused by its use, and in my view the wrong decision was made by the use of VAR in this case.
 

Rektseasider

Well-known member
Like you said-he made his decision-and in that respect that decision was the one made on the field. The laws say 'in the opinion of the referee' but that's been tainted now because of the VAR nonsense and undermines the officials.

There was no need to use VAR in this instance and the whole commotion has been caused by its use, and in my view the wrong decision was made by the use of VAR in this case.
There’s a lot wrong with VAR I’ll grant you.

But isn’t the basic premise correct, and applies in this case that human error was corrected for the correct out come on the pitch, which wouldn’t have been possible without a VAR check.
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
There’s a lot wrong with VAR I’ll grant you.

But isn’t the basic premise correct, and applies in this case that human error was corrected for the correct out come on the pitch, which wouldn’t have been possible without a VAR check.
The basic premise is correct-absolutely- but the game of football has never been (or was indeed designed to be) slide rule precise getting every decision correct. Most experienced referees and players accept the spirit of the game, which allows a margin of error because so many decisions have to be made on the spot.

The TV audiences dont understand how football works and seem to want something akin to the NFL model, which simply panders to the sofa sitting clique who probably want a drinks breaks so they can nip to the fridge for another Bud.

The laws of the game have always upheld the authority of the officials and aside from some notable historical errors, its been ticking along nicely until TV knocked into its foundations.

As Brian Clough said it would all those years ago.
 

Rektseasider

Well-known member
The basic premise is correct-absolutely- but the game of football has never been (or was indeed designed to be) slide rule precise getting every decision correct. Most experienced referees and players accept the spirit of the game, which allows a margin of error because so many decisions have to be made on the spot.

The TV audiences dont understand how football works and seem to want something akin to the NFL model, which simply panders to the sofa sitting clique who probably want a drinks breaks so they can nip to the fridge for another Bud.

The laws of the game have always upheld the authority of the officials and aside from some notable historical errors, its been ticking along nicely until TV knocked into its foundations.

As Brian Clough said it would all those years ago.
I completely agree with what you’ve said there.

So was Blatter right all along in opposing this and wanting football with errors. I laughed at him at the time, but now having seen VAR for a few years and to your point it detracts from the game we had, far more than the points it adds to the game of the future.

Fortunately the standard of officiating is fairly high in the PL, with goal line tech in place I think there’s a strong argument to just end VAR all together.

The only thing it adds is marginal offsides or fouls in the build up to goals. I can live with the odd one of those going the wrong way to get back the flowing game and excitement of goals we had pre VAR.
 

phill

Well-known member
feel sorry for liverpool var has made so many wrong calls against them why wasnt var called to the non free kick against them with the dive from a utd player as usual?Man u are only second to spurs in the diving stakes yet no one is calling them out because they are very good at it but at the end of the day a dive is a dive no matter how good the quality of it.Because sala is rubbish at it he has been labelled and now doesnt gey free kicks he should .Rashford and kane are the biggest cheats in the prem but they are english say no more
 

20togo

Well-known member
feel sorry for liverpool var has made so many wrong calls against them why wasnt var called to the non free kick against them with the dive from a utd player as usual?Man u are only second to spurs in the diving stakes yet no one is calling them out because they are very good at it but at the end of the day a dive is a dive no matter how good the quality of it.Because sala is rubbish at it he has been labelled and now doesnt gey free kicks he should .Rashford and kane are the biggest cheats in the prem but they are english say no more
You've already posted all that crap before. Just another moaning scouser. who doesn't like England and United.
 

PNENIL

Well-known member
The TV audiences dont understand how football works and seem to want something akin to the NFL model, which simply panders to the sofa sitting clique who probably want a drinks breaks so they can nip to the fridge for another Bud.


There was no need to use VAR in this instance and the whole commotion has been caused by its use, and in my view the wrong decision was made by the use of VAR in this case.
So now we've got TV audiences( who get blamed for everything else so why not), the NFL and Alan Shearer all in your firing line?
How can anything be the wrong decision if it gets the right decision? I must be missing something because your an intelligent poster.
I've checked on big Al and the first thing that came up was Leeds were his favourite side to score against!
 

Shiggy

Well-known member
Considering that all season, the linesmen (or women) have been instructed to leave the flag down until the move has concluded to avoid that exact situation, last night was a shambles. Massey shouldn’t have raised her flag, but once she did the ref should’ve blown up. Can’t blame the players for yet more inconsistency and indecisiveness from officials
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
So now we've got TV audiences( who get blamed for everything else so why not), the NFL and Alan Shearer all in your firing line?
How can anything be the wrong decision if it gets the right decision? I must be missing something because your an intelligent poster.
I've checked on big Al and the first thing that came up was Leeds were his favourite side to score against!
There's different elements that are responsible for the different aspects of how the game is going, but on VAR as I've said (the bit you've missed-smiley) its becoming clear the right decisions arent being made. More to the point its,affecting the experience for match going fans as pointed out by Wolves fans at the FSA meet.

Folk have to decide what they want-a VAR game that's micro analysed to get every decision correct,or a warts and all traditional one where referees are allowed to referee the matches. I know which one I want as we head into a TV controlled abyss.
 

Bloodtangerine

Well-known member
He did-watch the video again.He raised his arm too which indicates its an indirect free kick for offside and pointed across the line (of the offside)

He was overruled by the VAR who therefore took the decision away from him (and the liner) which for me undermines his authority.

Edit:double checked and what I'm saying is correct 0:46
Ref doesn’t do anything until ball is in net.....he THEN blows for offside....that is as clear as day Plumbs.

I don’t like VAR but it’s in place and worked perfectly there.....Players should play to whistle. The fact that they don’t cost them BUT in reality didn't as they were gonna get stuffed regardless. I believe even Fat Sam didn’t complain about it
 

20togo

Well-known member
Considering that all season, the linesmen (or women) have been instructed to leave the flag down until the move has concluded to avoid that exact situation, last night was a shambles. Massey shouldn’t have raised her flag, but once she did the ref should’ve blown up. Can’t blame the players for yet more inconsistency and indecisiveness from officials
Yep spot on. In the case it's purely down to the official. She unfortunately got it wrong but she will know that and of course shouldn't be thrown to the wolves because of it. VAR official probably had no choice but to alert the ref. It would have been preferable to just let WBA have the free kick but inevitably it would have been picked up by all the tv companies and could have become a bigger furore than it is now.
 

Seainsea

Well-known member
Considering that all season, the linesmen (or women) have been instructed to leave the flag down until the move has concluded to avoid that exact situation, last night was a shambles. Massey shouldn’t have raised her flag, but once she did the ref should’ve blown up. Can’t blame the players for yet more inconsistency and indecisiveness from officials
This is exactly the correct way it should have happened. As soon as the flag went up the referee should have blown his whistle, it should be instantaneous! I'm not 100% sure but isn't there a button on the flag that the assistant ref uses to indicate offside to the ref? So unless the ref is 100% convinced that the player was not offside it is the ref who got it wrong. Players have become conditioned to the fact that a raised flag means offside.

This where VAR is distorting the game, drawing cross-hairs from a defenders armpit is absurd. The whole point of a video assist technique is to catch clear and obvious errors, like the ball crossing the line (Lampards shot against Germany), a player scoring a goal with a blatant handball (Maradonna, Thierry Henry) or a player violently attacking another player to cause serious injury. VAR has gone way beyond this and the net effect is to make less attractive as a fluid game.
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
Ref doesn’t do anything until ball is in net.....he THEN blows for offside....that is as clear as day Plumbs
No because referees have always been instructed to wait a minute before blowing, and in this case he waited to see what the offence was and/or deciding if any player was interfering with play (as we used to say)
VAR clearly overruled the refs offside decision here and caused the furore, when once again the officials gave a decision in good faith as per the laws of the game.

Proper fans who understand the game can grasp this but the Dorito squads with their instant play back facility will never get it,indeed they often blame the family dog on silent but deadlies during the live game. They should bring VAR in for that!
 

Bloodtangerine

Well-known member
No because referees have always been instructed to wait a minute before blowing, and in this case he waited to see what the offence was and/or deciding if any player was interfering with play (as we used to say)
VAR clearly overruled the refs offside decision here and caused the furore, when once again the officials gave a decision in good faith as per the laws of the game.

Proper fans who understand the game can grasp this but the Dorito squads with their instant play back facility will never get it,indeed they often blame the family dog on silent but deadlies during the live game. They should bring VAR in for that!
He didn’t blow until after ball was in the net. That is a fact. Another fact is that VAR ruins the game
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
He didn’t blow until after ball was in the net. That is a fact. Another fact is that VAR ruins the game
They dont blow until the final phase has been completed*, but if you watch the replay you can see he points for an offside. At that point VAR intervenes via the head set but hey ho.

*at Old T when Whiskey Nose was there this involved him being consulted, adding on around 1 min injury time if Manure were winning and around 4 days if they were losing.Roy Keane was allowed to perpetually foul anyone and the goals at the Stretford** End were two feet higher 😄

**another part of Salford.
 

1950`spoolfan

Well-known member
What a lot of confusion and misinformation on here.

Firstly the lineswoman incorrectly flagged too soon ,before the phase of play was completed.

Secondly she flagged for offside when it was just onside.

Thirdly some WBA players paused when they should have played on until the whistle went.A simple principle that everyone who plays football learns from an early age.

The referee AFTER the move was completed and the ball was in the net then blew his whistle correctly disallowed the goal based on the lineswoman`s flag.Then VAR correctly checked and overruled the incorrect offside decision so a legitimate goal that would otherwise have been wrongly disallowed was correctly awarded.

Well done VAR.VAR is certainly sometimes controversial but credit where credit`s due, here unlike the lineswoman they got it dead right and I am all in favour of not disallowing perfectly good goals.If some WBA players chose to stop before the ref blew his whistle they have no-one to blame but themselves and don`t deserve any sympathy.

If of course the ref had incorrectly blown his whistle before the ball entered the net which he didn`t he certainly could not and would not have awarded a goal.
 
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Simonized

Well-known member
Watched Spurs v Liverpool just now and again another dodgy decision.
Liverpool have a goal disallowed for handball but he is clearly being fouled and then he handles it but the handball is punished which is the latter of the incidents.
Also, the pulling and pushing would influence the movement of his arm that leads to him touching it.
So its either a freekick to Liverpool or a goal because advantage would then come into it in my view.

 

Smethwick

Well-known member
Now, I thought the Liverpool handball was an example of VAR being dreadful - even when it's correct. I thought it was handball, the commentary team thought it was and yet it took ages for the VAR team to decide - and then send the ref to the screen. The delay was just insane. I hate it.
 

bleach51

Well-known member
They dont blow until the final phase has been completed*, but if you watch the replay you can see he points for an offside. At that point VAR intervenes via the head set but hey ho.

*at Old T when Whiskey Nose was there this involved him being consulted, adding on around 1 min injury time if Manure were winning and around 4 days if they were losing.Roy Keane was allowed to perpetually foul anyone and the goals at the Stretford** End were two feet higher 😄

**another part of Salford.
Point of order ....there is absolutely no part of Old Trafford football ground that is in Salford.
....nor in Manchester for that matter😀.....the clue is in the title😉😉

on the subject of VAR ....not a fan but it is here to stay at the so called “elite“ level of football....glad we at Least don’t have it at our games.
 

20togo

Well-known member
Watched Spurs v Liverpool just now and again another dodgy decision.
Liverpool have a goal disallowed for handball but he is clearly being fouled and then he handles it but the handball is punished which is the latter of the incidents.
Also, the pulling and pushing would influence the movement of his arm that leads to him touching it.
So its either a freekick to Liverpool or a goal because advantage would then come into it in my view.

Not dodgy for me at all. It had to be disallowed. If the ref is gonna blow for a foul against Dier which he well could have done, then blow. But he didn't and that's the key. The ref didn't see it as a clear foul. So he has to allow play to go on . Liverpool score but there is a check for handball by Firmino and whether he was being fouled or not is now irrelevant. He then controls the ball with his arm and deliberate or not it brings the ball under control and they score from it. So it has to be disallowed.
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
What a lot of confusion and misinformation on here.
Agreed
Firstly the lineswoman incorrectly flagged too soon ,before the phase of play was completed.

Secondly she flagged for offside when it was just onside.

Thirdly some WBA players paused when they should have played on until the whistle went.A simple principle that everyone who plays football learns from an early age.

The referee AFTER the move was completed and the ball was in the net then blew his whistle correctly disallowed the goal based on the lineswoman`s flag.Then VAR correctly checked and overruled the incorrect offside decision so a legitimate goal that would otherwise have been wrongly disallowed was correctly awarded.

Well done VAR.VAR is certainly sometimes controversial but credit where credit`s due, here unlike the lineswoman they got it dead right and I am all in favour of not disallowing perfectly good goals.If some WBA players chose to stop before the ref blew his whistle they have no-one to blame but themselves and don`t deserve any sympathy.

If of course the ref had incorrectly blown his whistle before the ball entered the net which he didn`t he certainly could not and would not have awarded a goal.
Point of order ....there is absolutely no part of Old Trafford football ground that is in Salford.
....nor in Manchester for that matter😀.....the clue is in the title😉😉

on the subject of VAR ....not a fan but it is here to stay at the so called “elite“ level of football....glad we at Least don’t have it at our games.
Point of order. A professor of regional boundaries at Layton University has researched this and the original city of Salford included Old T. I think they bung the Council a few bob every now and then to keep it tickety boo.

He did ask about Miles Platting but he had no idea either 😁
 

1950`spoolfan

Well-known member
Strictly according to the application of VAR as it stands the decision was correct but it seems ridiculous that Firmino was clearly being manhandled and fouled by a Spurs player (possibly Dier) immediately before the hand ball occurred yet the ref under the VAR regulations could do nothing about that when clearly as the first foul was committed by the Spurs player the free kick should in the laws of natural justice have gone the other way.
 

Wizaard

Well-known member
Not dodgy for me at all. It had to be disallowed. If the ref is gonna blow for a foul against Dier which he well could have done, then blow. But he didn't and that's the key. The ref didn't see it as a clear foul. So he has to allow play to go on . Liverpool score but there is a check for handball by Firmino and whether he was being fouled or not is now irrelevant. He then controls the ball with his arm and deliberate or not it brings the ball under control and they score from it. So it has to be disallowed.
It had to be disallowed. It was against Spurs. Admit it 😂😂😉
 

Simonized

Well-known member
Not dodgy for me at all. It had to be disallowed. If the ref is gonna blow for a foul against Dier which he well could have done, then blow. But he didn't and that's the key. The ref didn't see it as a clear foul. So he has to allow play to go on . Liverpool score but there is a check for handball by Firmino and whether he was being fouled or not is now irrelevant. He then controls the ball with his arm and deliberate or not it brings the ball under control and they score from it. So it has to be disallowed.
But he didn't see the handball either so var should have taken the first offence into consideration first.
 

20togo

Well-known member
But he didn't see the handball either so var should have taken the first offence into consideration first.
but he didn't consider it foul but he did consider it handball. Or alternatively the foul wasn't clear and obvious but the handball was.
 
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