Very proud of The Government and NHS

catinstalbans said:
You won't accept reports from the UN, the World Bank, the US Department of the Treasury Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, as proof so the question has to be asked- just what proof would you accept?
Click to expand...

You haven’t provided any irrefutable proof for your slanderous claims about Boris Johnson and the Conservative Government pre, and currently - being directly responsible for 1000’s of deaths.

You claimed the above, I’m simply asking for you to prove your claims irrefutably.

I don’t think you can, and that’s why your posts are increasingly ignored as obsessively biased fake news ramblings.
 
Certitude said:
You haven’t provided any irrefutable proof for your slanderous claims about Boris Johnson and the Conservative Government pre, and currently - being directly responsible for 1000’s of deaths.

You claimed the above, I’m simply asking for you to prove your claims irrefutably.

I don’t think you can, and that’s why your posts are increasingly ignored as obsessively biased fake news ramblings.
Click to expand...
Are you still maintaining that your politics are middle of the road, neither left or right, 🤔
 
Certitude said:
What are the proven cases of “massive mismanagement” over Covid he’s been found guilty of?

There’s not even been an enquiry yet?

Humans do make mistakes, and I’m confident that Boris hasn’t intentionally made them to harm people.
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I never said he did anything intentionally. Not even that clown would do that. His government was slow off the mark. He totally mismanaged the Cummings fiasco. His decision to send large numbers of sick people in hospital to care homes resulted in many needless deaths. The decisions on arrivals from abroad should have been taken months and months before they were. Lockdown rules, especially the second one, were fuzzy in the extreme. People didn't understand them. He's a buffoon,a charlatan.

.
 
A report from imperial college stated that in the first wave 20,000 deaths could have been prevented had followed the SAGE advice and locked down a week earlier.
Boris Johnson again ignored SAGE requests in October for a circuit breaker lockdown while infections were relatively low but rising. Since then two lockdowns have been necessary and 50,000 more people have died.

On austerity


As part of Tory-Liberal coalition and later Tory government “reforms,” unprecedented numbers of social security claims were denied or terminated. Between March 2014 and February 2017, 119,590 deaths were recorded by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

The deceased had recently been “flowed off” Incapacity Benefit, Severe Disablement Allowance, and/or Employment Support Allowance. Many died as a direct result: Stress triggered fatal heart-attacks, strokes, and seizures; significant numbers of claimants with depression killed themselves; anxiety shortened the lives of terminally-ill people; and some starved to death. In the same period, life expectancy declined. Consider the following cases as a tiny sample of the broader toll:

After his social security was terminated, Mark Wood (44) of Oxfordshire was found dead, weighing five stone. Likewise, Errol Graham (57) died in his Nottingham flat with no gas or electricity, weighing four-and-a-half-stone.


Forty-nine-year-old James Oliver’s death in Hastings from chronic liver disease was accelerated by the stress caused by the DWP’s refusal to award social security. His brother, David Smith, says that James sank into despair: “He just downed more or less anything he could lay his hands on.” The death of Moira Drury (61) of Essex, who had cancer, was also hastened by the torment. Her daughter Nichole said: “She told me the day before she died that the stress of having her benefits removed contributed to her decline.”

The UN was so concerned that they published a report attacking the extreme poverty caused by government policies in 2019.
 
Wizaard said:
Dont be ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Wizaard said:
120,000 dead. And no one said intentionally.

Right from the off though, he ignored advice and we've ended up with tens of thousands dead more than were inevitable.
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Why is it ridiculous to ask you to prove your claims that “we’ve ended up with tens of thousands dead more than were inevitable”

I don’t think you can prove this.
I think it’s ridiculous for you to suggest something which you can’t prove to be anywhere near the truth.

Happy to wait for the enquiry, but you seem to have been judge, jury and executioner - Without providing even a modicum of evidence!
 
catinstalbans said:
A report from imperial college stated that in the first wave 20,000 deaths could have been prevented had followed the SAGE advice and locked down a week earlier.
Boris Johnson again ignored SAGE requests in October for a circuit breaker lockdown while infections were relatively low but rising. Since then two lockdowns have been necessary and 50,000 more people have died.

On austerity


As part of Tory-Liberal coalition and later Tory government “reforms,” unprecedented numbers of social security claims were denied or terminated. Between March 2014 and February 2017, 119,590 deaths were recorded by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

The deceased had recently been “flowed off” Incapacity Benefit, Severe Disablement Allowance, and/or Employment Support Allowance. Many died as a direct result: Stress triggered fatal heart-attacks, strokes, and seizures; significant numbers of claimants with depression killed themselves; anxiety shortened the lives of terminally-ill people; and some starved to death. In the same period, life expectancy declined. Consider the following cases as a tiny sample of the broader toll:

After his social security was terminated, Mark Wood (44) of Oxfordshire was found dead, weighing five stone. Likewise, Errol Graham (57) died in his Nottingham flat with no gas or electricity, weighing four-and-a-half-stone.


Forty-nine-year-old James Oliver’s death in Hastings from chronic liver disease was accelerated by the stress caused by the DWP’s refusal to award social security. His brother, David Smith, says that James sank into despair: “He just downed more or less anything he could lay his hands on.” The death of Moira Drury (61) of Essex, who had cancer, was also hastened by the torment. Her daughter Nichole said: “She told me the day before she died that the stress of having her benefits removed contributed to her decline.”

The UN was so concerned that they published a report attacking the extreme poverty caused by government policies in 2019.
Click to expand...

All your opinion and supposition.

These don’t prove your outlandish claims.
 
gjr69 said:
Are you still maintaining that your politics are middle of the road, neither left or right, 🤔
Click to expand...

Yes. A mixture of left/right and I don’t consider myself attached to the extremes of either. I make my own opinions politically based on facts and balance predominantly.

Not everyone has to be extreme, or conform to a particular type.
 
Certitude said:
Yes. A mixture of left/right and I don’t consider myself attached to the extremes of either. I make my own opinions politically based on facts and balance predominantly.

Not everyone has to be extreme, or conform to a particular type.
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I totally agree. I'm not extreme either but usually you find yourself drawn to one side or the other. I am independent of thought but probably lean to the left, but not excited by the Labour party. Sometimes I read Peter Hitchens column in the Mail and agree with much of it, but I could never vote for a party that has Johnson, Gove and Rees-Mogg as dominant figures.
Yet some people see it like supporting your team, Red or Blue, not for me, or you it would seem.
 
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Brazil said:
I never said he did anything intentionally. Not even that clown would do that. His government was slow off the mark. He totally mismanaged the Cummings fiasco. His decision to send large numbers of sick people in hospital to care homes resulted in many needless deaths. The decisions on arrivals from abroad should have been taken months and months before they were. Lockdown rules, especially the second one, were fuzzy in the extreme. People didn't understand them. He's a buffoon,a charlatan.

.
Click to expand...

I agree mistakes have been made, but I just don’t subscribe to the witch hunt and exaggerated claims.

I prefer to look for balanced and unbiased opinion - and will challenge those which aren’t.
 
Brazil said:
I never said he did anything intentionally. Not even that clown would do that. His government was slow off the mark. He totally mismanaged the Cummings fiasco. His decision to send large numbers of sick people in hospital to care homes resulted in many needless deaths. The decisions on arrivals from abroad should have been taken months and months before they were. Lockdown rules, especially the second one, were fuzzy in the extreme. People didn't understand them. He's a buffoon,a charlatan.

.
Click to expand...
Ah, you use the word "intentionally" and that the PM didn't do anything intentionally to cause these deaths. There again, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that China INTENTIONALLY tried to cover the whole outbreak up for months. Just a thought, but perhaps if China had been honest in the first place then perhaps there would have been nowhere near the millions of deaths around the world that there have been. But posters like Cat are in denial about that. The poster who didn't wish Boris dead as he didn't believe in the death penalty.

So Johnsons honest but regrettable mistakes over Chinas intentional lies and deceit? Which "crime" is worse?
 
It’s taken them nearly a year into a pandemic to do something right but fair play to the government along with the wonderful NHS for the vaccine roll out.
 
PR3BFC said:
It’s taken them nearly a year into a pandemic to do something right but fair play to the government along with the wonderful NHS for the vaccine roll out.
Click to expand...

Dexamethasone?

Not only has the UK been at the forefront of the search for a vaccine, it's also led in the search for treatments.
 
20togo said:
Ah, you use the word "intentionally" and that the PM didn't do anything intentionally to cause these deaths. There again, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that China INTENTIONALLY tried to cover the whole outbreak up for months. Just a thought, but perhaps if China had been honest in the first place then perhaps there would have been nowhere near the millions of deaths around the world that there have been. But posters like Cat are in denial about that. The poster who didn't wish Boris dead as he didn't believe in the death penalty.

So Johnsons honest but regrettable mistakes over Chinas intentional lies and deceit? Which "crime" is worse?
Click to expand...
Don't let facts get in the way of your lies.

I've put this up before.

Archived: WHO Timeline - COVID-19

31 Dec 2019China reported a cluster of cases of in Wuhan, Hubei Province. A novel coronavirus was eventually identified.1 January 2020WHO had set up the IMST (Incident Management Support Team) across the three levels of the organization: headquarters, regional headquarters and country level...
www.who.int www.who.int

Two weeks from first reports of a pneumonia like infection to the genetic sequence being publically shared.
Three weeks to confirm human to human transmission.

Not months so your statement is clearly a lie.
 
Certitude said:
Yes. A mixture of left/right and I don’t consider myself attached to the extremes of either. I make my own opinions politically based on facts and balance predominantly.

Not everyone has to be extreme, or conform to a particular type.
Click to expand...
I suggest you're a wind up. If not, you need help.

Theres no point in replying to you, so I'm out.
 
As soon as I saw Imperial College I decided to ignore. Look up the last foot and mouth epidemic.
Also there are “scientists “ at Imperial who don’t agree with each other.
 
catinstalbans said:
Don't let facts get in the way of your lies.

I've put this up before.

Archived: WHO Timeline - COVID-19

31 Dec 2019China reported a cluster of cases of in Wuhan, Hubei Province. A novel coronavirus was eventually identified.1 January 2020WHO had set up the IMST (Incident Management Support Team) across the three levels of the organization: headquarters, regional headquarters and country level...
www.who.int www.who.int

Two weeks from first reports of a pneumonia like infection to the genetic sequence being publically shared.
Three weeks to confirm human to human transmission.

Not months so your statement is clearly a lie.
Click to expand...
Nope you're lying Cat. I was proving to you back in March about Chinas lies. You really are nothing more than a hate filled political extremist. I've already proven your lies. Remember you conveniently forgetting your commie avatar?
 
catinstalbans said:
This is the WHO timeline.
It is not me making it up.
Unlike your statement.
Click to expand...
Yep, conveniently the first date on that time line is 31/12/19. Are you suggesting that's the date it virus was first known in China? There was a documentary on tv about a month ago which showed evidence of problems in Wuhan thru December. It showed evidence of China denying there was a problem. China lied to the WHO and you believed their lies and defended them. Not too long back I posted your quote of what you said back in March.

You're a hate filled political extremist Cat.
 
Unlike you, I have no need to turn to hate driven personal abuse.
Your statement is a lie. It was not months-at most you could go back a couple of extra weeks but they had no evidence at that time that they were dealing with a new virus.
The first confirmed death was January 9. I can go on pointing out your lies.
 
catinstalbans said:
Unlike you, I have no need to turn to hate driven personal abuse.
Your statement is a lie. It was not months-at most you could go back a couple of extra weeks but they had no evidence at that time that they were dealing with a new virus.
The first confirmed death was January 9. I can go on pointing out your lies.
Click to expand...
"The first confirmed death" The clue is in the word "confirmed". They were in denial, like you are. They were trying to cover it up. Like I said, there was a documentary on it over a month ago which showed events happening in Wuhan and hospitals receiving up to 1500 cases a day. It showed the Govt making speeches of denial.
 
20togo said:
"The first confirmed death" The clue is in the word "confirmed". They were in denial, like you are. They were trying to cover it up. Like I said, there was a documentary on it over a month ago which showed events happening in Wuhan and hospitals receiving up to 1500 cases a day. It showed the Govt making speeches of denial.
Click to expand...
20’s I see where you’re coming from so should the Government not stopped all flights from China and subsequently Italy especially the ski resorts ?
 
Old_Laytonian said:
20’s I see where you’re coming from so should the Government not stopped all flights from China and subsequently Italy especially the ski resorts ?
Click to expand...

For China they pretty much did at the end of January and the evidence suggests that there was little to no importation of the virus to the UK from there.

For Italy, I think there was a travel advisiory in place from 26 Feb for the affected regions that was later expanded to cover the whole country and then Spain.

Basically the government reacted as fast as they possibly could once they knew the virus was in a particular country, the only problem was by then it was too late.
 
catinstalbans said:
Okay, I'm on half term so I'll watch it in the next 24 hours and give a response.
Now are you going to do anything about your tendency to make abusive and personal comments?
Click to expand...
What's abusive about saying I believe you to be a political extremist? I've read enough of your posts to know they are hate-filled as well.
 
catinstalbans said:
As usual you cannot acknowledge that your behaviour towards other posters is not that which should be acceptable. It's not just me you throw abuse at either.
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Are you a political extremist? Yes. Your use of the communist avatar proved that.
Do you write hate filled comments against the Govt and the PM? Yes you do. If you think you don't then I'd like to know what your comment about not wishing Boris dead was as you didn't believe in the death penalty. That remark being made at a time when he was seriously ill in hospital suffering from Covid. A clearly and utterly reprehensible comment.
 
catinstalbans said:
Boris Johnson's negligence has killed thousands of people.
But let's forget this, forget the corruption,
Forget "taking it on the chin"
Forget the cowardice,
Forget the incompetence
Forget the lies he has told
All because he got one decision right and did not push delivering the vaccine out into the private sector.

The NHS is fantastic.
Boris Johnson needs to be accountable for the "social murder" of thousands of UK citizens. (Note to mods- this accusation is acceptable for the BMJ)
Click to expand...
What is that post if it's not a hate filled rant? And that's just one of hundreds and hundreds of posts that you've made. You've not put up that post for discussion have you? It's just a rant. Ask yourself this. Am I the only one who calls you out for your posts?
 
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I've said before- name one extremist policy that I support. I would proudly claim to be of the left but that is not an extremist position. To me that is the only moral choice possible. Many people have pointed this out to you time after time but you seem unable to change a mindset. Whether that is through ignorance or obduracy I have no idea, but again unlike you I am not going to accuse you of one or the other on here. Every statement about Boris Johnson can be backed up with evidence to support it, but deep down you know that.
 
Certitude said:
You seem to revel in making an awful lot of slanderous posts, which won’t appeal to the middle ground electorate and those with a fair minded and balanced mind.

So, who is your intended audience?

Please also confirm and prove which Conservative policies have caused thousands of people to die - as that’s some claim!
Click to expand...
😂don’t waste your time
 
Some very extreme views on the PM's role in the pandemic. I'm not clear why posters show such hatred towards him. I mean is he trying to kill people as catinstalbans implies? Just so I'm clear can anyone put these in order of culpability

1. Boris Johnson for making mistakes in applying rules to deal with the virus
2. The Chinese government for enabling the outbreak and not immediately letting the world know its extent or severity.
3. Anti-vaccers who intentionally put themselves in a position to spread the virus by failing to socially distance or wear masks
4. Infected people who spit at the police in an attempt to infect them
5. Muslim and Jewish leaders holding wedding receptions for dozens or hundreds of guests on the grounds that they are prayer meetings

I'm just struggling to understand why Boris is personally responsible for killing 70,000 people like cat says. Did he want them out of the way or something?
 
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catinstalbans said:
I've said before- name one extremist policy that I support. I would proudly claim to be of the left but that is not an extremist position. To me that is the only moral choice possible. Many people have pointed this out to you time after time but you seem unable to change a mindset. Whether that is through ignorance or obduracy I have no idea, but again unlike you I am not going to accuse you of one or the other on here. Every statement about Boris Johnson can be backed up with evidence to support it, but deep down you know that.
Click to expand...
As much as some-one can be extremely right wing one can also be extremely left wing. I've shown it to be true that you've used the Communist logo before so why shouldn't I consider that to be an extremist in much the same way you can accuse people of being right wing and racist? Perhaps you don't consider communism to be an extreme view. As I said above you don't write posts for discussion, you post rants and try to pass them off as statements. And it's not as if I'm the only one who sees you for what you are is it?
 
Tangojoe said:
Some very extreme views on the PM's role in the pandemic. I'm not clear why posters show such hatred towards him. I mean is he trying to kill people as catinstalbans implies? Just so I'm clear can anyone put these in order of culpability

1. Boris Johnson for making mistakes in applying rules to deal with the virus
2. The Chinese government for enabling the outbreak and not immediately letting the world know its extent or severity.
3. Anti-vaccers who intentionally put themselves in a position to spread the virus by failing to socially distance or wear masks
4. Infected people who spit at the police in an attempt to infect them

I'm just struggling to understand why Boris is personally responsible for killing 70,000 people like cat says. Did he want them out of the way or something?
Click to expand...
I haven't said he was trying to kill people. I have said that his negligence is culpable. Or maybe you prefer that it was his incompetence that caused thousands of deaths. The contractors that passed the cladding for Grenfell Tower did not mean to kill people, just that the consequence of their irresponsible actions caused lives to be lost. It is the same with Boris Johnson.
 
Tangojoe said:
Certitude: I’m very proud of the govt and NHS. We nailed the vaccine rollout

Wizaard: We were still in the EU when we put all our orders. That was the key moment that has got us off and running so quickly and not a consequence of Brexit.

Wizaard: It's nothing to do with Brexit though.

Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's negligence has killed thousands of people.

Catinstalbans: When have you mentioned the lies, corruption, negligence, cowardice and incompetence of this government over the last 12 months.

BHOK: People have rose tinted glasses in Britain and think we are the best at everything. Football should provide an indicator that we aren't quite as good as we believe.

Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's conservatives have done more to attack a free press in this country than any in living memory.

Catinstalbans: Remember thousands of people died because of Conservative policies long before the pandemic hit this country.

Every day is Groundhog Day on AVFTT 🥱

Someone has the nerve to say something positive and the pack of hyenas are on it in a flash
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Massively positive what a great achievement so far and if they keep going like this we'll all be vaccinated twice by September!!

I wasn't expecting to get my first jab until April, got a text today from my medical centre and I am booked in for this Thursday! Amazing!

I have actually booked 2 weeks away in the USA for Next Feb/March to New Orleans for Mardi Gras the Lafayette for Crawfish, Gumbo, Zydeco and Mangrove swamps. At last something to look forward to. Just need to wait for the flights to come out now. Airbnb booked and full refund cancellation up to 5 days prior to the holiday.

Oh and the great effort re the vaccinations is a feather in the cap for the Government and NHS but it's got fuck all to do with Brexit!!
 
Massive thanks to the NHS for all the hard work the employees have selflessly put in over this last year, going above and beyond their call of duty, despite 10 years of Government cuts! We’re forever in their debt! 👏
 
catinstalbans said:
I haven't said he was trying to kill people. I have said that his negligence is culpable. Or maybe you prefer that it was his incompetence that caused thousands of deaths. The contractors that passed the cladding for Grenfell Tower did not mean to kill people, just that the consequence of their irresponsible actions caused lives to be lost. It is the same with Boris Johnson.
Click to expand...

Ok.
You’ve stated quite clearly a couple of posts back you’re for the “left” of politics, and said it’s the only moral choice to make - So anyone with a different political persuasion to you is immoral?

Because that’s what you’ve implied, and it’s a very narrow minded sweeping generalisation.

And you wonder why extremists views such as yours, lead to you getting accused of being extreme!

Genuine question here - Do people like you honestly think you alter anyone’s opinion with your extremist rants on social media?
 
catinstalbans said:
So again, no policy you can actually put a name to. Just repetition of the same old same old.
Then again, that is what you do isn't it.
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To be honest your words here could be applied to the posts I’ve seen of yours.

Repetition of the same old, without any evidence to support.

It appears that’s what you do, isn’t it.
 
Certitude said:
Genuine question here - Do people like you honestly think you alter anyone’s opinion with your extremist rants on social media?
Click to expand...

Ever thought that some posters may not be trying to "alter anyone`s opinion", but simply using the forum to express themselves and their views?

I notice one of your earnest early posts proclaimed that "my appeal is to the floating voters, the silent majority".

It may be part of your agenda, but perhaps not everyone is looking for converts; sometimes just saying what you want to say is enough...
 
spudgun said:
Ever thought that some posters may not be trying to "alter anyone`s opinion", but simply using the forum to express themselves and their views?

I notice one of your earnest early posts proclaimed that "my appeal is to the floating voters, the silent majority".

It may be part of your agenda, but perhaps not everyone is looking for converts; sometimes just saying what you want to say is enough...
Click to expand...

​

Some people on this site are fanatics, that is a person who is zealously enthusiastic for a cause, and some are extremists, that is a person who holds extreme views, especially one who advocates such views. So when a person says Boris Johnson is responsible for 70,000 deaths and lambasts that person on a daily basis, that is extremism at its worst and frankly there is no place for that on social media.
 
Tangojoe said:
Some people on this site are fanatics, that is a person who is zealously enthusiastic for a cause, and some are extremists, that is a person who holds extreme views, especially one who advocates such views. So when a person says Boris Johnson is responsible for 70,000 deaths and lambasts that person on a daily basis, that is extremism at its worst and frankly there is no place for that on social media.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but quite clearly that wasn`t the point I was addressing.

Whether there is "no place for that on social media" is obviously up to the moderators in this case...
 
Certitude said:
No, you’re wrong.

The point and key moment was that we were able to put in our orders as a nation in our own right, as we weren’t in the EU’s joint procurement scheme, thanks to Brexit.

Add to this the EU’s well known childish behaviour over Northern Island and the attempts to slow the vaccine rollout.
Click to expand...

Yikes. You come across as a bit desperate. I don't blame you though. I hope there are enough 'straws' for us all to grasp onto over the next couple of years.
 
spudgun said:
Maybe so, but quite clearly that wasn`t the point I was addressing.

Whether there is "no place for that on social media" is obviously up to the moderators in this case...
Click to expand...
I'll take that as your acknowledgement then that Cat is an extremist. 👍
 
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