Virus press conference

seasideone said:
That’s not true though - the virus did establish itself here, hence why we have had 50k plus cases.
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Okay, my bad, I thought you said the measures worked, now it seems you had more cases per capita than over here.

One other factor to consider is the virus's ability to transmit is affected by climate and seasons, we were largely tracking Singapore in terms of cases per capita, now were heading into Autumn whereas Singapore isn't.


seasideone said:
Masks do make a difference in transmission - if you have a mask on and cough - less drops escape.
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However if overused they become reservoirs for the virus that then helps cause surface contract transmission as individuals touch their mask, infect their fingers and then other objects.

Hence limited use yes, all day every day is probably worse then no mask at all.


seasideone said:
Regards the borders - letting the virus either back in or in more makes a difference.

The amount of people here in quarantine that have proved positive tend to be Indian, US or Philippino citizens.

How many flights a day arrive from India, US or the Philippines in the UK and go unchecked or asked to quarantine and not enforced?
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What proportion of the recent rise do you think is down to arrivals from outside of the UK?


seasideone said:
You mention a Revolution - if the Uk is not prepared to follow the rules then why have them??
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Enforcement can be done without sending everyone to prison, which is what you seem to want.
 
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seasideone said:
If the measures Singapore have put in has made the country pretty much Covid free, how can they be wrong??

The measures the UK obviously put in, have not worked - otherwise why are local lockdowns happening and a UK wide one may be in the cards??
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Seaside 1 why bother with cruzzer he's a complete tool (just ignore him).
 
Does anybody really bother listening to this clusterf*ck of a government anymore. They have shown themselves to be wholly incompetent through the whole thing it has become laughable. God help this nation if a real emergency ever happened instead of project fear!!
 
hertfordseasider said:
Will tell you the problem we have here in this country. We have a society who are now used to doing what the hell they like without repercussion. Unless you break some PC rules or You are not tolerant enough of this that and the other then it is fair game to be a selfish, couldn’t give a stuff about anyone else attitude, so long as you are being tolerant towards certain people.

nothing wrong with being tolerant to minority groups etc., it is right and proper, but we have forgotten how to behave to everyone else, mainly a 2 fingered approach to any kind of authority, be it in the family home, at school, in public, to the laws of the land and those who enforce it, we have this large group, but still a minority who have the attitude “as long as I’m alright, fuck everyone else” it’s these thick, selfish twats who are the problem and it’s why it doesn’t happen in Singapore. We are a weak, wishy washy society who have let this happen over decades. At the end of the day, until we get a vaccine that works it will be these groups of people who will destroy much of this country, because they just can’t follow simple rules... they can but they just don’t want to. And this and successive governments and ** so called do-gooders have made it happen.
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Angry man in its all the do gooders fault. What an insult.....you're a do gooder
 
hertfordseasider said:
Will tell you the problem we have here in this country. We have a society who are now used to doing what the hell they like without repercussion. Unless you break some PC rules or You are not tolerant enough of this that and the other then it is fair game to be a selfish, couldn’t give a stuff about anyone else attitude, so long as you are being tolerant towards certain people.

nothing wrong with being tolerant to minority groups etc., it is right and proper, but we have forgotten how to behave to everyone else, mainly a 2 fingered approach to any kind of authority, be it in the family home, at school, in public, to the laws of the land and those who enforce it, we have this large group, but still a minority who have the attitude “as long as I’m alright, fuck everyone else” it’s these thick, selfish twats who are the problem and it’s why it doesn’t happen in Singapore. We are a weak, wishy washy society who have let this happen over decades. At the end of the day, until we get a vaccine that works it will be these groups of people who will destroy much of this country, because they just can’t follow simple rules... they can but they just don’t want to. And this and successive governments and ** so called do-gooders have made it happen.
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I can't agree more with your assessment herts.

As for Singapore, a lot of people seem to have the wrong idea about the place. Apart from the enviable way it's tackled the pandemic, Singapore is one of Asia’s economic tigers, It's grown impressively in recent years as efficient manufacturing and production have made way for free-market innovation in the electronics and pharmaceutical industries. Singapore is a world leader in several economic areas, the world's fourth leading financial center, a top three oil-refining centre, the world's largest oil-rig manufacturer and a major ship-repairer. The port is one of the five busiest in the world. Gross domestic product per capita is high and unemployment is low, making Singapore one of the wealthiest nations in the world. The architecture is amazing. Very impressive place.
 
The Government need to be clearer with their messaging. I reckon 30%+ of the UK population will not have about the current rules or announcements today. At the start of the pandemic we all got a message sent to our phones telling us to stay at home. We have had nothing since and a lot of people don't watch TV or have news apps on their phones.

There are a small minority who think the virus is fake and are just constantly sharing utter garbage on Facebook.

Then there are a growing number who aren't doubting the virus is real but constantly moaning and questioning every decision the government makes. The type who share memes saying that Covid doesn't go for 6 people but is waiting around the corner for the 7th person to turn up etc etc.

We are truly fckued, people won't listen and this virus is coming back hard over winter.

What I liked about the briefing today is the fact that they reminded us that it's not all about Covid, it's about the fact that left to run its course, Covid cases would exponentially increase and lots of people would die, NHS overrun and people can't get seen to for other urgent care. This has always been the case and it's not just all about Covid and people need to remember and respect this.
 
seasideone said:
That’s not true though - the virus did establish itself here, hence why we have had 50k plus cases.

The country was in strict lockdown for nearly 3 months before gentle losening.

Masks do make a difference in transmission - if you have a mask on and cough - less drops escape.

Regards the borders - letting the virus either back in or in more makes a difference.

The amount of people here in quarantine that have proved positive tend to be Indian, US or Philippino citizens.

How many flights a day arrive from India, US or the Philippines in the UK and go unchecked or asked to quarantine and not enforced?

You mention a Revolution - if the Uk is not prepared to follow the rules then why have them??
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Singapore has had 27 deaths from Covid... So either a) Their case numbers are not accurate, b)Their death numbers are not accurate c) The population has some kind of immunity to Covid d) The affected population are young or e) Covid is nowhere near as deadly as we have been led to believe etc...

One thing we can conclude is that the virus has certainly never got a foothold Or established itself and infection within the community has been nowhere near the scale experienced in the UK.... the chances are that the UK was experiencing 50,000 cases per day before we even went into lockdown, with anywhere between 5-15M people having been infected, depending on who’s numbers you believe.

None of that had anything to do with the behaviour of the British Public, who started to adopt measures themselves, whilst the Government here was floundering.

This whole ‘blame the public’ narrative is utter garbage. Singapore reacted quickly and already had systems in place having learned lessons from past failures.

In the UK we had no testing and no means of understanding where the virus was within our communities.

Our public was extremely compliant until some bespectacled fuck wit was found out for putting half the government at risk by going to work with the virus and then going on a nationwide tour.

We’ve since come out of lockdown with a host of half arsed conflicting information and started pointing the finger at various groups as a means of shifting the blame from utterly shit leadership.
 
Shandypants said:
You came across a tad frothy and the insult "do gooder" is a shocker. It's a pity the world doesn't consist purely of do gooders, it might be a better place
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No, the world might be a better place if there weren't so many selfish bastards out there who get away with whatever they want because we, as a society, have rolled over and let them do it. Mainly because of so called do-gooders and governments. There is a massive difference between do-gooders and goodness and doing the right thing.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
This whole ‘blame the public’ narrative is utter garbage. Singapore reacted quickly and already had systems in place having learned lessons from past failures.

In the UK we had no testing and no means of understanding where the virus was within our communities.

Our public was extremely compliant until some bespectacled fuck wit was found out for putting half the government at risk by going to work with the virus and then going on a nationwide tour.
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The thing is Daz, you may be able to use that excuse for the start of this, but you can't use it now and I'm afraid we all have to take responsibility. We know now and we are being told as well, yet people still want to pile to the coast en masse and flout the rules, they still want to get on a plane and go on holiday, they still want to go into shops and not wear masks, they want to have raves and house parties and gatherings where social distancing and numbers go out of the window. The government have handled it badly that is undeniable but there are plenty of people out there who are sticking 2 fingers up to it and they have no excuse now for it.
 
hertfordseasider said:
No, the world might be a better place if there weren't so many selfish bastards out there who get away with whatever they want because we, as a society, have rolled over and let them do it. Mainly because of so called do-gooders and governments. There is a massive difference between do-gooders and goodness and doing the right thing.
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I agree that this country is full of selfish, self absorbed types. I wouldn't blame it on rolling over or do gooders. I blame the lack of community spirit and the materialistic mentality that pervades England.
 
Shandypants said:
I agree that this country is full of selfish, self absorbed types. I wouldn't blame it on rolling over or do gooders. I blame the lack of community spirit and the materialistic mentality that pervades England.
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I think we are on exactly the same page as that is exactly how I feel, we just have different takes on what "do-gooders" actually are.
 
hertfordseasider said:
The thing is Daz, you may be able to use that excuse for the start of this, but you can't use it now and I'm afraid we all have to take responsibility. We know now and we are being told as well, yet people still want to pile to the coast en masse and flout the rules, they still want to get on a plane and go on holiday, they still want to go into shops and not wear masks, they want to have raves and house parties and gatherings where social distancing and numbers go out of the window. The government have handled it badly that is undeniable but there are plenty of people out there who are sticking 2 fingers up to it and they have no excuse now for it.
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Of course you can use that excuse now... The Government has adopted some kind of ridiculous ‘Simple Simon Says’ approach to their messaging.

And I completely disagree that there’s a significant portion of the population “sticking two fingers up”... In fact, I’d go further and say that in my opinion that’s utter tripe!

The Government has actively encouraged people to go on holiday and spend time outdoors. Going on holiday or taking a trip to the beach isn’t against the guidelines. You might argue it’s not the best thing to do and that might be true, but it’s not been a ‘rule’ and so what do you expect?

As for “They all want to have raves and house parties” ... What a load of bollocks!!

First of all, it’s a tiny number of people who have done anything of the sort. And secondly is no ** wonder young people want to have a bit of a release.... they’ve been locked up for months for no good reason.

It’s the classic sleight of hand.... ‘Look over there at that benefits claimant, smoking a fag’, ‘Look at all those foreigners steeling our jobs’, ‘Look at all those kids going to the pub having a good time’

Same Bullshit, Different Day!
 
seasideone said:
The UK needs to copy Singapore....

1 Anyone entering the country from a place with high infection rate - does 2 weeks quarantine in a hotel taken over by the government.

1b There are a few exceptions where quarantine is not needed such as New Zealand.

1c Any country that has low infection you can do the quarantine at home BUT you will be tagged. UK is classed as very high risk and if coming from India you have to have a test before you get here AND go into gov quarantine.

2 If you abuse 1 expect to go to prison and rightly so.

3 Mask worn everywhere (Not in own home) unless sat a table with food and drink.

4 Track and trace is a legal requirement - if you get a stay at home notice don’t break it or you will probably end up in prison - rightly so!

5 Max of 5 guests in house or max of 5 at a table in a restaurant.

6 Alcohol finished by 10.30pm in bars / restaurants.

7 Safe distance ambassadors wandering round checking in bars and restaurants- anyone found flaunting it is generally closed for a couple of weeks.

8 QR code’s to enter and leave anywhere linked directly to the track n trace db - my app tells me if I am clear or if I have been near anyone - even if no need to isolate.

9 Strict enforcement of all the above - now there lies the issue with the UK!!!!

10 All locations of where anyone infected has been for 30 mins published daily.

11 Aggressive testing scheme for any at risk workers or population.

Result- an average of less than one case in the general population on average per day in the last two weeks.
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People would be screaming about civil liberties & a Nazi draconian system if we got anywhere near that here.
Too many people will just do whatever they want & blame 'others' & the powers that be if things dont work.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
First of all, it’s a tiny number of people who have done anything of the sort. And secondly is no ** wonder young people want to have a bit of a release.... they’ve been locked up for months for no good reason.

It’s the classic sleight of hand.... ‘Look over there at that benefits claimant, smoking a fag’, ‘Look at all those foreigners steeling our jobs’, ‘Look at all those kids going to the pub having a good time’

Same Bullshit, Different Day!
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I think there has been a good reason.
Is Tens of thousands of deaths here and over a million Worldwide not good enough 'reason' for you bifster?
'Benefit claiming fag smokers & foreigners stealing our jobs' may be seen as a problem by 'some' but unless they are killing others by spreading Covid have little relevance to this debate.

I dont want to just lay blame but i saw a number of younger people in the pub not socially distancing tonight.
Are we not allowed to talk about it?
Maybe it should just be brushed under the carpet?
We really dont wanna hurt the young uns feelings.
 
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"Of course you can use that excuse now... The Government has adopted some kind of ridiculous ‘Simple Simon Says’ approach to their messaging.

And I completely disagree that there’s a significant portion of the population “sticking two fingers up”... In fact, I’d go further and say that in my opinion that’s utter tripe!

The Government has actively encouraged people to go on holiday and spend time outdoors. Going on holiday or taking a trip to the beach isn’t against the guidelines. You might argue it’s not the best thing to do and that might be true, but it’s not been a ‘rule’ and so what do you expect?

As for “They all want to have raves and house parties” ... What a load of bollocks!!

First of all, it’s a tiny number of people who have done anything of the sort. And secondly is no ** wonder young people want to have a bit of a release.... they’ve been locked up for months for no good reason.

It’s the classic sleight of hand.... ‘Look over there at that benefits claimant, smoking a fag’, ‘Look at all those foreigners steeling our jobs’, ‘Look at all those kids going to the pub having a good time’

Same Bullshit, Different Day!"

It is significant in that it is going to cause a massive increase in cases, so it is significant.

I never said the government were blameless, I have said the contrary, they are responsible too and they have told people to go abroad and to go on holiday here and head for the resorts to boost the economies which is the right thing to do. But where you or i would go away or go to a boozer or for a weekend away, we would be careful, we would not just head off and cram beaches or streets in holiday or if you socialise with friends it will be in small numbers and thankfully there are plenty of us who will behave like this. but there are plenty of twats that won't and it is these people who are going to be the ones who rekindle the virus and put us into the dilemma they have been warning about today. As I said, the government have a responsibility but we as individuals have a responsibility too and there are many who are incapable of taking responsibility.

Do you really think young people have been locked up for no good reason? That, in your words is 'a load of bolloacks" aww, bless them, they have had to take some responsibility, being young doesn't give them immunity in more ways than one.

Who is blaming the "foreigners"? The 'benefit claimants"?

I have been on holiday in this country, I have had a good time in the pub, but I haven't acted like a selfish ** and gone and done what we have been advised not to do.
 
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deary said:
I think there has been a good reason.
Is Tens of thousands of deaths here and over a million Worldwide not good enough 'reason' for you bifster?
'Benefit claiming fag smokers & foreigners stealing our jobs' may be seen as a problem by 'some' but unless they are killing others by spreading Covid have little relevance.

I saw a number of younger people in the pub not socially distancing tonight, Are we not allowed to talk about it?
Should it just be brushed under the carpet?
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I’ll leave you grumpy old men to it👍
 
People don't have an excuse, but that doesn't mean the government don't need take a lot responsibility for the situation.

That's what government is for. They stood up and said "vote us in, we'll run things" and if things aren't run well, you can't then say "ah, but we had the wrong population"

I'd say the same if it were the other lot.

The communication has been shocking at times and they've undermined their own authority on a number of occasions. Rightly or wrongly they have. Whether it's media spun or not, it's happened.

I think it's a bit like Hillsborough in a strange way. Did every single Liverpool fan behave like an angel? No. Did the police completely fail in the their duty and the ground safety get totally overlooked? Yes.

The first thing doesn't negate the second thing and Covid is like that. It's not a binary - because some kids had a rave in the woods, doesn't let the government off the hook. Cos Liverpool fans were pissed, it doesn't excuse the fact no one could unlock the gates or the copper in charge had no idea what he was doing. Individual behaviour can't explain systemic failure and from my position, the system has failed and landed us with both a high death rate AND a high economic cost. I'm not sure how else to view it.

Of course 100% of the population don't comply. The number who don't comply probably increases once the message becomes confusing, undermined or poorly expressed. That's not to excuse individuals, it's just the way it works. Observe any teacher ever. Say clear and consistent things, firmly and fairly and class behaves. Pitch the message badly, contradict yourself, give the kids a reason to not respect you - you'll lose control of the class. We all know that, because we've all been to school. Same class behaving like a group of angels for teacher A, then running riot for teacher B. We can sympathise with teacher B, but ultimately, remember, the Government actually chose to be the Government. They said 'we're the best people to do this'

For the government to try and place the blame on the population is simply wrong. It demonstrates they failed in 'controlling' or 'persuading' the population and ultimately, that is literally, their job. They've been in power for 10 years and if the population is 'uncontrollable' or 'fundamentally unruly' - then that's at least in part, of their own making.

I also agree with BFC*3 - I think we're seeing a deliberate over emphasis on the role of individual behavior in creating a second wave when actually, a) people are behaving (in the case of 17 yr olds getting pissed and being stupid) EXACTLY as you'd need to imagine they would when modelling risk - no one sane would model 'total compliance from all teenagers' and b) I think often 17-24 yr olds are getting a really hard time, when often, they're working and having to use public transport as they don't drive, working on 'front line' of retail etc and thus are being exposed. Further education is face to face in general, so there's another factor as is the prevalence of shared housing for young people. They stand in the supermarket doorway for hours on end wiping trolley handles and baskets for middle class people on their one trip out a week, or they do extra hours of care work (cos Carol is shielding) and sort out yer nan or they stand in Spar scanning tins of stella for half drunk balding blokes with beer bellies who pant all over them and look them up and down in the bargain. And I am a bald bloke and I like a beer, so don't get all hufty with me about identity politics.

Then they basically get called 'scrotes' en masse and told they've caused a second wave because 'young people these days - no respect'
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’ll leave you grumpy old men to it👍
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😄👍

Cheers Bifster, I feel i have now put off being a 'grumpy old man' long enough.

Its really something everyone should be able to embrace when with experience they aquire a more sensible outlook on life.

We had to deal with it from our elders as youngsters, so i really dont see why the kids today should get a free fuckin pass.

Dont get me wrong i try to be more tuned in with da kidz than many.
Hey i can appreciate good rap music, am quite tolerant to dodgy yoof dress sense & even can although hard kinda accept nauseating urban speech.

However I do rather have an issue with them not taking adequate precautions against a disease that has killed so many people.

So Vive Le Grumpy Me 😘
 
Shandypants said:
You came across a tad frothy and the insult "do gooder" is a shocker. It's a pity the world doesn't consist purely of do gooders, it might be a better place
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Spot on. If more people tried to do a bit of good for the wider community we'd all be better off.
 
td53 said:
People don't have an excuse, but that doesn't mean the government don't need take a lot responsibility for the situation.

That's what government is for. They stood up and said "vote us in, we'll run things" and if things aren't run well, you can't then say "ah, but we had the wrong population"

I'd say the same if it were the other lot.

The communication has been shocking at times and they've undermined their own authority on a number of occasions. Rightly or wrongly they have. Whether it's media spun or not, it's happened.

I think it's a bit like Hillsborough in a strange way. Did every single Liverpool fan behave like an angel? No. Did the police completely fail in the their duty and the ground safety get totally overlooked? Yes.

The first thing doesn't negate the second thing and Covid is like that. It's not a binary - because some kids had a rave in the woods, doesn't let the government off the hook. Cos Liverpool fans were pissed, it doesn't excuse the fact no one could unlock the gates or the copper in charge had no idea what he was doing. Individual behaviour can't explain systemic failure and from my position, the system has failed and landed us with both a high death rate AND a high economic cost. I'm not sure how else to view it.

Of course 100% of the population don't comply. The number who don't comply probably increases once the message becomes confusing, undermined or poorly expressed. That's not to excuse individuals, it's just the way it works. Observe any teacher ever. Say clear and consistent things, firmly and fairly and class behaves. Pitch the message badly, contradict yourself, give the kids a reason to not respect you - you'll lose control of the class. We all know that, because we've all been to school. Same class behaving like a group of angels for teacher A, then running riot for teacher B. We can sympathise with teacher B, but ultimately, remember, the Government actually chose to be the Government. They said 'we're the best people to do this'

For the government to try and place the blame on the population is simply wrong. It demonstrates they failed in 'controlling' or 'persuading' the population and ultimately, that is literally, their job. They've been in power for 10 years and if the population is 'uncontrollable' or 'fundamentally unruly' - then that's at least in part, of their own making.

I also agree with BFC*3 - I think we're seeing a deliberate over emphasis on the role of individual behavior in creating a second wave when actually, a) people are behaving (in the case of 17 yr olds getting pissed and being stupid) EXACTLY as you'd need to imagine they would when modelling risk - no one sane would model 'total compliance from all teenagers' and b) I think often 17-24 yr olds are getting a really hard time, when often, they're working and having to use public transport as they don't drive, working on 'front line' of retail etc and thus are being exposed. Further education is face to face in general, so there's another factor as is the prevalence of shared housing for young people. They stand in the supermarket doorway for hours on end wiping trolley handles and baskets for middle class people on their one trip out a week, or they do extra hours of care work (cos Carol is shielding) and sort out yer nan or they stand in Spar scanning tins of stella for half drunk balding blokes with beer bellies who pant all over them and look them up and down in the bargain. And I am a bald bloke and I like a beer, so don't get all hufty with me about identity politics.

Then they basically get called 'scrotes' en masse and told they've caused a second wave because 'young people these days - no respect'
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That’s one of the best posts I’ve ever read on here.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Singapore has had 27 deaths from Covid... So either a) Their case numbers are not accurate, b)Their death numbers are not accurate c) The population has some kind of immunity to Covid d) The affected population are young or e) Covid is nowhere near as deadly as we have been led to believe etc...

One thing we can conclude is that the virus has certainly never got a foothold Or established itself and infection within the community has been nowhere near the scale experienced in the UK.... the chances are that the UK was experiencing 50,000 cases per day before we even went into lockdown, with anywhere between 5-15M people having been infected, depending on who’s numbers you believe.

None of that had anything to do with the behaviour of the British Public, who started to adopt measures themselves, whilst the Government here was floundering.

This whole ‘blame the public’ narrative is utter garbage. Singapore reacted quickly and already had systems in place having learned lessons from past failures.

In the UK we had no testing and no means of understanding where the virus was within our communities.

Our public was extremely compliant until some bespectacled fuck wit was found out for putting half the government at risk by going to work with the virus and then going on a nationwide tour.

We’ve since come out of lockdown with a host of half arsed conflicting information and started pointing the finger at various groups as a means of shifting the blame from utterly shit leadership.
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In answer to each of your statements...

Probably d (most the time) - the virus became very very prevalent among construction workers where many live in Dorms (about 300,000 of them I think). Anywhere there was a wiff of covid was immediately lockdown and everyone quarantined elsewhere (the took over cruise ships, built temp accommodation) etc. The government acted to stop massive infection.

Singapore was also in total lockdown for about 2.5 months to stop the virus getting hold, the borders were closed very early on (2 week quarantine enforced to anyone arriving) to stop infection coming from outside. The fact the UK government did not act says more for the UK government than anything else!!!

Singapore had learnt from SARS as the UK government should - but blundering Boris and his cronies
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Singapore has had 27 deaths from Covid... So either a) Their case numbers are not accurate, b)Their death numbers are not accurate c) The population has some kind of immunity to Covid d) The affected population are young or e) Covid is nowhere near as deadly as we have been led to believe etc...

One thing we can conclude is that the virus has certainly never got a foothold Or established itself and infection within the community has been nowhere near the scale experienced in the UK.... the chances are that the UK was experiencing 50,000 cases per day before we even went into lockdown, with anywhere between 5-15M people having been infected, depending on who’s numbers you believe.

None of that had anything to do with the behaviour of the British Public, who started to adopt measures themselves, whilst the Government here was floundering.

This whole ‘blame the public’ narrative is utter garbage. Singapore reacted quickly and already had systems in place having learned lessons from past failures.

In the UK we had no testing and no means of understanding where the virus was within our communities.

Our public was extremely compliant until some bespectacled fuck wit was found out for putting half the government at risk by going to work with the virus and then going on a nationwide tour.

We’ve since come out of lockdown with a host of half arsed conflicting information and started pointing the finger at various groups as a means of shifting the blame from utterly shit leadership.
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One point at a time....

The answer is probably (d) as although infections where rising in the community quite sharply the virus really took hold with foreign construction workers who are housed in dorms. I believe there are about 300,000 (although I am sure I read 600.000 somewhere) of these people here. The government moved quickly to test and trace them, and putting in quarantine where needed. There were so many the government hired cruise ships and built huge temp accommodation quickly.

The NHS is a great organisation but not a patch on the medical available here, the frontline staff are amazing in the NHS but they simply do not have the capability to deal with this and everything else going on - but that's an debate for another day!

Singapore effectively closed its borders very very early to stop more virus arriving form outside.

The UK government have been woeful (at best) in dealing with this. Matt Hancock admitted himself earlier on that they knew a pandemic was on the way in Jan, he actually said he could not believe people were not talking about it.

Singapore learnt from SARS and acted accordingly to stop the infection spreading, instead the UK had blundering Boris and the blind Cummings. In regards to Cummings - saying the UK population is not compliant because of him is just an excuse for people to do what they want - yes he should have been sacked but to say they were extremely compliant before is just a joke, and if you doubt me go look at old archived newspapers on the web!!

We still had a country wide lockdown for 2.5 months to make sure it was under control.

The real difference here is compliance, where the UK population have not complied fully (or hardly at all in some circumstances)- its not totally their fault as the messages have been mixed to say the least, but they have responsibility as well.

Like anything there is a proportion of blame on them, especially when we were looking at the news of the beeches and protests going on in a very socially un-distanced way. The amount of people on here that have complained about how busy Blackpool prom has been says it all.

The UK did have testing but by no means enough, that said they have ramped up quickly - but god knows what is happening now. Singapore did not have testing either but they have ramped it up (not on the scale granted), but it has worked and been very aggressive in looking for infections.

Masks in Singapore have not been compulsory until relatively recently, they changed their advice (or law) when the WHO was leaning towards recommending them - you can argue that the evidence is inconclusive of course, but there is very little transmission here now.

The way I look at masks is like this - the virus is new and we don't know for sure if it helps, although it "probably" does help stop spread of infection, therefore I will go with it and wear one, although I have no choice here (and rightly so) as its the law.
 
deary said:
People would be screaming about civil liberties & a Nazi draconian system if we got anywhere near that here.
Too many people will just do whatever they want & blame 'others' & the powers that be if things dont work.
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The difference between here and the UK is simple, the law is the law and is enforced - which is how it should be, and unless the UK make the law clearer and enforce it, Covid will be around much longer than it needs to be.

...and yes many people in the UK these days do what they want and just look to blame someone else, like Cummings for being an idiot - he did it so therefore I can - which is just rubbish.
 
seasideone said:
In answer to each of your statements...

Probably d (most the time) - the virus became very very prevalent among construction workers where many live in Dorms (about 300,000 of them I think). Anywhere there was a wiff of covid was immediately lockdown and everyone quarantined elsewhere (the took over cruise ships, built temp accommodation) etc. The government acted to stop massive infection.

Singapore was also in total lockdown for about 2.5 months to stop the virus getting hold, the borders were closed very early on (2 week quarantine enforced to anyone arriving) to stop infection coming from outside. The fact the UK government did not act says more for the UK government than anything else!!!

Singapore had learnt from SARS as the UK government should - but blundering Boris and his cronies


One point at a time....

The answer is probably (d) as although infections where rising in the community quite sharply the virus really took hold with foreign construction workers who are housed in dorms. I believe there are about 300,000 (although I am sure I read 600.000 somewhere) of these people here. The government moved quickly to test and trace them, and putting in quarantine where needed. There were so many the government hired cruise ships and built huge temp accommodation quickly.

The NHS is a great organisation but not a patch on the medical available here, the frontline staff are amazing in the NHS but they simply do not have the capability to deal with this and everything else going on - but that's an debate for another day!

Singapore effectively closed its borders very very early to stop more virus arriving form outside.

The UK government have been woeful (at best) in dealing with this. Matt Hancock admitted himself earlier on that they knew a pandemic was on the way in Jan, he actually said he could not believe people were not talking about it.

Singapore learnt from SARS and acted accordingly to stop the infection spreading, instead the UK had blundering Boris and the blind Cummings. In regards to Cummings - saying the UK population is not compliant because of him is just an excuse for people to do what they want - yes he should have been sacked but to say they were extremely compliant before is just a joke, and if you doubt me go look at old archived newspapers on the web!!

We still had a country wide lockdown for 2.5 months to make sure it was under control.

The real difference here is compliance, where the UK population have not complied fully (or hardly at all in some circumstances)- its not totally their fault as the messages have been mixed to say the least, but they have responsibility as well.

Like anything there is a proportion of blame on them, especially when we were looking at the news of the beeches and protests going on in a very socially un-distanced way. The amount of people on here that have complained about how busy Blackpool prom has been says it all.

The UK did have testing but by no means enough, that said they have ramped up quickly - but god knows what is happening now. Singapore did not have testing either but they have ramped it up (not on the scale granted), but it has worked and been very aggressive in looking for infections.

Masks in Singapore have not been compulsory until relatively recently, they changed their advice (or law) when the WHO was leaning towards recommending them - you can argue that the evidence is inconclusive of course, but there is very little transmission here now.

The way I look at masks is like this - the virus is new and we don't know for sure if it helps, although it "probably" does help stop spread of infection, therefore I will go with it and wear one, although I have no choice here (and rightly so) as its the law.
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Nope the difference has very little, if anything at all to do with public compliance.

As I said in my post, Singapore has barely been exposed to the virus by comparison to the U.K. The number of deaths paints that picture very clearly.

50,000 cases will likely represent the full extent of the exposure in Singapore, whereas the U.K. has seen multiple millions of cases (most of which have occurred before and during lockdown). As I’ve said, any serious issues with compliance in Britain have arisen since lockdown rules were relaxed and the bulk of death and infection over. And those issues have been insignificant in the general scheme of things...

The difference was in preparedness, capability and willingness to take the virus seriously and respond. To that extent Singapore has learned from prior experience. It had sod all to do with compliance.

Due to that lack of preparedness etc... The virus has spread much more widely within our community and has become far more difficult to eliminate / control. The rise in cases recently is as likely to have occurred due to the pace of re-opening through economic pressure and impact on education more than any minor problems with compliance (even now).

To talk about this situation in terms of public response is lazy and shows a total lack of understanding of what has happened in either population.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Nope the difference has very little, if anything at all to do with public compliance.

As I said in my post, Singapore has barely been exposed to the virus by comparison to the U.K. The number of deaths paints that picture very clearly.

50,000 cases will likely represent the full extent of the exposure in Singapore, whereas the U.K. has seen multiple millions of cases (most of which have occurred before and during lockdown). As I’ve said, any serious issues with compliance in Britain have arisen since lockdown rules were relaxed and the bulk of death and infection over. And those issues have been insignificant in the general scheme of things...

The difference was in preparedness, capability and willingness to take the virus seriously and respond. To that extent Singapore has learned from prior experience. It had sod all to do with compliance.

Due to that lack of preparedness etc... The virus has spread much more widely within our community and has become far more difficult to eliminate / control. The rise in cases recently is as likely to have occurred due to the pace of re-opening through economic pressure and impact on education more than any minor problems with compliance (even now).

To talk about this situation in terms of public response is lazy and shows a total lack of understanding of what has happened in either population.
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I’m sorry I simply do not agree, the UK public has contributed hugely to the spread as well as an incompetent government.

We are not going to agree so best leave it there 👍👍
 
seasideone said:
I’m sorry I simply do not agree, the UK public has contributed hugely to the spread as well as an incompetent government.

We are not going to agree so best leave it there 👍👍
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You’ll have to leave it there, because essentially beyond your own limited opinion, you have no hard evidence at all to back up what you are saying.

The scientific analysis showed that there was a high level of compliance with lockdown measures in the U.K.

EVIDENCE
www.imperial.ac.uk

Mobile data shows high compliance with lockdown rules across the UK | Imperial News | Imperial College London

People across the UK drastically reduced their movement outside of home following lockdown, although slight rises have occurred since April.
www.imperial.ac.uk www.imperial.ac.uk

The recent increase in cases has been directly related to the re-opening of the economy and mirrors the situation in France and Spain. If anything, I’d argue all three countries came out of lockdown too fast and too soon.

Of course isolated stories of kids having parties make all the headlines, whilst reality is much more mundane.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You’ll have to leave it there, because essentially beyond your own limited opinion, you have no hard evidence at all to back up what you are saying.

The scientific analysis showed that there was a high level of compliance with lockdown measures in the U.K.

EVIDENCE
www.imperial.ac.uk

Mobile data shows high compliance with lockdown rules across the UK | Imperial News | Imperial College London

People across the UK drastically reduced their movement outside of home following lockdown, although slight rises have occurred since April.
www.imperial.ac.uk www.imperial.ac.uk

The recent increase in cases has been directly related to the re-opening of the economy and mirrors the situation in France and Spain. If anything, I’d argue all three countries came out of lockdown too fast and too soon.

Of course isolated stories of kids having parties make all the headlines, whilst reality is much more mundane.
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👍
 
From what I've read, the graphs were like the joke one I posted the other day. Why anyone continues to listen is beyond me. Fool me once... etc.
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The difference was in preparedness, capability and willingness to take the virus seriously and respond. To that extent Singapore has learned from prior experience. It had sod all to do with compliance.
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Most likely it was really a result of the starting conditions, in Singapore the virus seems to have been mostly concentrated amongst immigrant construction workers, who likely don't mix with the general population, so the virus never spread beyond that group.

The situation in Europe (not just the UK) was far more complicated, the virus got into northern Italy very early on in large numbers and then, through the winter sports industry, spread widely amongst the worst affected populations before anyone even knew it was in Europe.

Not IMO a question of preparation, more a function of population movements, timing and general luck of the draw.
 
No its called democracy questioning the experts to see how they have arrived at their conclusions.I notice in the papers this am scientists disagree with the doom scenario painted yesterday
 
Lost Seasider said:
Most likely it was really a result of the starting conditions, in Singapore the virus seems to have been mostly concentrated amongst immigrant construction workers, who likely don't mix with the general population, so the virus never spread beyond that group.

The situation in Europe (not just the UK) was far more complicated, the virus got into northern Italy very early on in large numbers and then, through the winter sports industry, spread widely amongst the worst affected populations before anyone even knew it was in Europe.

Not IMO a question of preparation, more a function of population movements, timing and general luck of the draw.
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Construction workers do mingle in the community as they should. Granted more so in parts of Singapore (such as little India or China town), however these parts are visited ALL the time by many.

However, once it got into that population they locked it down, and with a genuine word class test and trace system they quarantined (and continue to do so) anyone with it and quickly.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Most likely it was really a result of the starting conditions, in Singapore the virus seems to have been mostly concentrated amongst immigrant construction workers, who likely don't mix with the general population, so the virus never spread beyond that group.

The situation in Europe (not just the UK) was far more complicated, the virus got into northern Italy very early on in large numbers and then, through the winter sports industry, spread widely amongst the worst affected populations before anyone even knew it was in Europe.

Not IMO a question of preparation, more a function of population movements, timing and general luck of the draw.
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TBF, I think they had the infrastructure (quarantine & testing capability) as well as past experience, which saw them react early to prevent the virus becoming established.

Seasideone likes to wax lyrical about the wonders of Singapore’s system, but I think you are right, that the specific circumstances of their infection and to a large extent luck played a role in how things panned out.

By contrast, this virus may well have been circulating throughout our community for a lot longer than had initially been thought and had become established.

The two situations are like chalk and cheese and to suggest that this is simply a matter of compliance seems to completely miss the point IMO.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
TBF, I think they had the infrastructure (quarantine & testing capability) as well as past experience, which saw them react early to prevent the virus becoming established.

Seasideone likes to wax lyrical about the wonders of Singapore’s system, but I think you are right, that the specific circumstances of their infection and to a large extent luck played a role in how things panned out.

By contrast, this virus may well have been circulating throughout our community for a lot longer than had initially been thought and had become established.

The two situations are like chalk and cheese and to suggest that this is simply a matter of compliance seems to completely miss the point IMO.
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Coincidentally, they are just talking about it on tv. Its success is down to a mixture of things including compliance of the people, good testing, high tech tracing and strict quarantine rules.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
By contrast, this virus may well have been circulating throughout our community for a lot longer than had initially been thought and had become established.
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We actually know how the virus got into Europe and why it spread so fast, we also have a good idea why some countries were hit much harder than others.

What we know is that the epicentre of the European outbreak was Bergamo in Italy, and the reason for that is there is a large textile industry there staffed mostly by Chinese workers who seem to have largely come from a place called Wuhan.

A lot of those workers then went home for Christmas or the Chinese new year and brought the virus back into Bergamo and infected the local population.

The local population then spent their weekends in the nearby ski resorts spreading the virus to visitors from other countries (France & UK in particular), who then went home and started spreading the virus among their own communities.

There is also the issue of the Atalanta - Valencia champions league game but I'll leave that to one side for now.

So lots of virus coming into Italy without anyone realising it and then spread to countries in large numbers by tourists to the region.

Which explains in large part why we were so badly hit, lots of tourists from across the country returning here and spreading it meaning that it was firmly established across much of the country before we noticed it, Germany and other lesser affected countries didn't have the same level of contact with Italy and thus never had the virus imported in anything like the numbers we did.
 
michellebutterflyhotel said:
Blackpool has a very low Covid rate. 4 people in the vic and Clifton hospitals none in icu. Preston had 225 new cases in the past 7 days
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The issue has nothing to do with Blackpool v Preston points scoring. It’s about common sense.

Lancaster has a lower rate than Blackpool, but it’s included in the new rules.

Areas with high Covid rates are being warmly welcomed to Blackpool. It’s just a receipt for disaster.
 
Giro said:
The issue has nothing to do with Blackpool v Preston points scoring. It’s about common sense.

Lancaster has a lower rate than Blackpool, but it’s included in the new rules.

Areas with high Covid rates are being warmly welcomed to Blackpool. It’s just a receipt for disaster.
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Most of us don't mix with the tourists so I am not sure it's quite the disaster you portray
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Most of us don't mix with the tourists so I am not sure it's quite the disaster you portray
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Again, I’m not referring to Blackpool, per sey. Blackpool is allowing people from different high Covid areas to use it as a conduit to increase the risk of spreading it. To me it’s seems crazy. It does have a potential impact on locals working in cafes and bars along transport staff. It still the bigger picture I see as an issue.
 
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