Apter and youth policy

Greennutmegsmoore

Well-known member
Wigan had 6 academy products in their first team recently. Ok needs must for them but we still seem way behind clubs like them and Blackburn in developing our young players. Every season young players feature in warm up games but then disappear back to dev squad or get sent to Bamber Bridge or Chorley. Can anyone remember our last successful youth product. Really disappointed Apter not even a sub on saturday. He has done everything you would expect at his stage and looks decent quality. Bound to be inconsistent and make mistakes but he won't develop into first teamer without opportunities. No one comes into first team fully fledged. Really hope he gets the chance this season.
 
Luke Higham and that’s going back a while ! Last seen at Bamber Bridge I believe.
 
You’ve got to remember Blackburn have been funding a top class academy for years and years and are a Cat 1 academy - one of the best and most productive and therefore have the pick of the best locally and nationally. We’re 30 years behind them - maybe more. Wigan are a decade or so ahead and so are PNE. We’re making massive strides but there’s a lot of ground to catch up on and the fruits of that labour won’t be seen immediately or even in the short or possibly medium term. This is something you’ll likely only be able to make a judgement on come 2030
 
You’ve got to remember Blackburn have been funding a top class academy for years and years and are a Cat 1 academy - one of the best and most productive and therefore have the pick of the best locally and nationally. We’re 30 years behind them - maybe more. Wigan are a decade or so ahead and so are PNE. We’re making massive strides but there’s a lot of ground to catch up on and the fruits of that labour won’t be seen immediately or even in the short or possibly medium term. This is something you’ll likely only be able to make a judgement on come 2030
💯 And we need a training ground to boot not having to play home youth games in Preston or Myrescough or wherever we can play on.
 
There's a constant reference to the fact that we are a Category 3 Academy but that isn't actually based on the standard of the players we recruit.
Over the few years since Simon acquired the Club the standard has improved significantly and I know because I watch them BUT I do concede I don't as often get to see Cat 1 and Cat 2 players BUT (again) when I do we are competitive
The Cods have moved up to Cat 2 status this season, based on Poolfoot, but we have consistently beaten them over recent years.
Maybe we are more fortunate than Wigan in that we can "buy" oven ready players rather than be "forced" into playing our own.
Also Critch should know better than me/us how good our young pro's are.
However I've yet to see any of them look out of place in the few minutes they occasionally get playing with the "first team".
I still believe the phrase "risk averse" that is being applied to Critch is a perfect fit for him (because he is) and I knew this would happen when he was appointed.
BUT if he gets us promoted like he did last time then who am I to argue/criticise.
 
Wigan had 6 academy products in their first team recently. Ok needs must for them but we still seem way behind clubs like them and Blackburn in developing our young players. Every season young players feature in warm up games but then disappear back to dev squad or get sent to Bamber Bridge or Chorley. Can anyone remember our last successful youth product. Really disappointed Apter not even a sub on saturday. He has done everything you would expect at his stage and looks decent quality. Bound to be inconsistent and make mistakes but he won't develop into first teamer without opportunities. No one comes into first team fully fledged. Really hope he gets the chance this season.
Not sure Wigan are a good example, seeing as players are leaving in droves. I get your principle though.
 
Well if your knowledge of our Academy comes from the same source that told you Joseph had a fractured hip then I'm not quite sure how valid your "reason" is. 😉
It might be alot harder for you to work out if you ever saw any of them play.
Has it be proven yet or not that Joseph could have had a hairline fracture of the hip?
Nope.👍
 
Over the few years since Simon acquired the Club the standard has improved significantly and I know because I watch them BUT I do concede I don't as often get to see Cat 1 and Cat 2 players BUT (again) when I do we are competitive
Are you seeing the best of the Cat 1 players, though, or just the squad players who aren't going to make it, because to play in L1 at age 20 you need to be towards the top end of the Cat 1 academy players.
 
Are you seeing the best of the Cat 1 players, though, or just the squad players who aren't going to make it, because to play in L1 at age 20 you need to be towards the top end of the Cat 1 academy players.
I watched us against Chelsea where we only lost 3-2. Are they good enough?
I also saw us beat Newcastle and Burnley.
 
Blackpool and the Fylde has always had a huge pool of football talent, (all those junior clubs and loads of nice flat pitches) Traditionally that pool has been successfully farmed by the big local city clubs. Think Hills, Milligan, Gavin McCann etc, to name just a few ex YM lads. When my lad was playing in a decent team for YM way back when, every year a good player was poached and disappeared to some academy. Hopefully that is now beginning to change, and when we have a new, dedicated academy training facility that can be accelerated. It needs to happen, and under Simon Sadler I think it will.
 
The 1st game of the season isn't the the time to blood young players, surely? 🤷.
On a similar note I've heard a lot of moaning about the likes of Lyons not playing (bit pissed off myself tbh 😆) and Trybull due to Critch only playing players he's signed. In his position I would also play safe with players I've known and trusted for years. This 1st game back was huge for him and a loss would have been almost catastrophic! He needed that fisting at the end and he knew it...
However, this will be a hellishly long season and I expect all these very good players to play and the cream always rises to the top 👍
 
Is that their best side, though, or is it the equivalent of what we'd put out in the EFL trophy against Morcambe?
It was the quarter final of the FA Youth Cup with a strong Chelsea side out, played at Stamford Bridge, and we alnost equalised at the death. We had beaten Newcastle 3-0 too.


 
As much as I hate the EFL Trophy, this is where we can use it to our advantage this season by bringing through these players. What are the rules about how many changes you can make?
 
It was the quarter final of the FA Youth Cup with a strong Chelsea side out, played at Stamford Bridge, and we alnost equalised at the death. We had beaten Newcastle 3-0 too.

Here are the sides for that game: Chelsea 3 - 2 Pool, and from that Chelsea side, 3 have been released and have no club at the moment, 2 more were transferred out to other academies, one has just gone on loan to Holland, and of the rest only Harvey Vale, their captain on the day and also the England U20 captain, has played any EFL football, a total of 76 minutes in half a season at Hull.

So if the players at the best academy in the country aren't ready for EFL football yet, perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that ours aren't either.
 
Here are the sides for that game: Chelsea 3 - 2 Pool, and from that Chelsea side, 3 have been released and have no club at the moment, 2 more were transferred out to other academies, one has just gone on loan to Holland, and of the rest only Harvey Vale, their captain on the day, has played any EFL football, a total of 76 minutes in half a season at Hull.

So if the players at the best academy in the country aren't ready for EFL football yet, perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that ours aren't either.
So why do we keep bringing players in from other Academies?
 
Here are the sides for that game: Chelsea 3 - 2 Pool, and from that Chelsea side, 3 have been released and have no club at the moment, 2 more were transferred out to other academies, one has just gone on loan to Holland, and of the rest only Harvey Vale, their captain on the day, has played any EFL football, a total of 76 minutes in half a season at Hull.

So if the players at the best academy in the country aren't ready for EFL football yet, perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that ours aren't either.
It was an U18 game though. You wouldn't expect them to be getting much men's football yet. Its the U23s who should be progressing and Chelsea do progress some into their first team. 4 years into Sadler ownership we arent quite there yet.
 
It was an U18 game though. You wouldn't expect them to be getting much men's football yet. Its the U23s who should be progressing and Chelsea do progress some into their first team. 4 years into Sadler ownership we arent quite there yet.
Exactly, we aren't there yet, we are maybe at the stage where a handful could perhaps play a role in the lesser competitions, but barring an injury crisis, only Apter seems ready to play a role in the EFL, and even that's likely to be limited at first.
 
I’d say with the players on the pitch he could have left out either Thompson or Casey for Apter
With Lyons could have covered either WB position and Connolly could cover the CBs

As ever we don’t know the bigger picture behind the scenes to judge though?
 
Exactly, we aren't there yet, we are maybe at the stage where a handful could perhaps play a role in the lesser competitions, but barring an injury crisis, only Apter seems ready to play a role in the EFL, and even that's likely to be limited at first.
Lankshear maybe given our left defence shortage.
 
I’d say with the players on the pitch he could have left out either Thompson or Casey for Apter
With Lyons could have covered either WB position and Connolly could cover the CBs
Possibly, especially if he'd played Thompson ahead of Connolly, but as it turned out, Casey was needed, so in the end it was a good call.

Let's see the team for tomorrow.
 
Lankshear maybe given our left defence shortage.
Ahead of Thompson, Husband, Lyons and now Connolly, maybe in the EFL trophy, or early rounds of the FA cup, but I think there'd need to be a major injury crisis before that happens in the EFL.

I'd say he's next in line to move up to the first team, and has played a fair bit in NLS, but probably needs a good spell in the NL before that happens.
 
Exeter city, a fan owned club, seem to have developed a successful cat 3 academy. Extract from BBC piece.

A future made in youth development​

Ollie Watkins playing for Exeter City
Ollie Watkins' transfer to Brentford, and subsequent sell-on clauses when he moved on to Aston Villa, has netted Exeter City around £6.5m
Most people in this part of Devon agree that Exeter's jewel in the crown is the club's youth academy.

With no rich benefactor to back the club in the transfer market, Exeter have had to produce their own players - both to staff their first team and provide revenue in player sales to other clubs.

England's Ollie Watkins, Wales' Ethan Ampadu, Swansea City captain Matt Grimes and Peterborough's Joel Randall have all left Exeter for fees in excess of £1m, while a host of other players have earned the club six-figure transfer fees.

"The night we won promotion there were seven academy players who started the game, and those academy players are big players now and are likely to be in demand during the summer," says Hawker.

"It's about finding your strength and what you can afford and really exploiting that."

He adds: "It's not just the people that go for million-pound transfers, but actually the people who play week in, week out.

"The academy's not luck, it's there by design and it's successful by design, and it's certainly one of the things that allows us to put a team on the pitch that can compete at this level."

Today's academy players now have use of a new £3m building that opened this year to replace a 'temporary' structure that was erected in 1974.

"It's possibly the greatest achievement of the Trust," says Fulls.

"Fans will always want a successful team on the pitch. We go to be entertained and we want to win things and we want promotions.

"You can spend money on players, they come and go with or without success. What the Trust has done is they've spent money wisely on the infrastructure which lays the foundations for success over a number of years."

"You set yourself these targets and somehow when you do that and see that vision, and you can see it in your mind, somehow you get there," Tagg proudly says outside the new training ground building.

"When you look back there's the Manchester United game, there's the Liverpool games, there's the 3G training pitch - but for me this is probably the biggest of all, to provide a facility for staff and for players that will take us to another level."
 
Ahead of Thompson, Husband, Lyons and now Connolly, maybe in the EFL trophy, or early rounds of the FA cup, but I think there'd need to be a major injury crisis before that happens in the EFL.

I'd say he's next in line to move up to the first team, and has played a fair bit in NLS, but probably needs a good spell in the NL before that happens.
Hubby is at CB , Lyons might go, Connolly well out of position at LWB. So maybe Lankshear gets to compete with Thompson at wing back? Though that's probably not his ideal position? We seem short of quality wing backs with Gabriel injured and Lyons out of favour for whatever reason.
 
Hubby is at CB , Lyons might go, Connolly well out of position at LWB. So maybe Lankshear gets to compete with Thompson at wing back? Though that's probably not his ideal position? We seem short of quality wing backs with Gabriel injured and Lyons out of favour for whatever reason.
He'll go to a back 4 with Husband at LB before he plays Lanks, I doubt Lyons will go, but if he does, he'll be replaced, Connolly might be out of position, but he's still being played there (bizarre) and if Critch really wants to play wing backs then Hamilton is equally inept defensively on either side.

If anything, with Gabriel seemingly injury prone, and Lyons/Connolly possibly needed elsewhere, I think we're shorter at RB/RWB.
 
He'll go to a back 4 with Husband at LB before he plays Lanks, I doubt Lyons will go, but if he does, he'll be replaced, Connolly might be out of position, but he's still being played there (bizarre) and if Critch really wants to play wing backs then Hamilton is equally inept defensively on either side.

If anything, with Gabriel seemingly injury prone, and Lyons/Connolly possibly needed elsewhere, I think we're shorter at RB/RWB.
We're short for both sides.
 
I think what we don't know is if Critch wants to play 3-5-2, or if we're playing that way because we're short of wide players and the system will change by the end of the window.
We're short of both wingers and wing backs so we have to improvise any system as we did on Saturday, so i suspect he wants the side to get used to 532. We could play Dale and CJ wide in a 433. Apter maybe. Would make more sense really. Connolly RB and Hubby LB.
 
Wigan had 6 academy products in their first team recently. Ok needs must for them but we still seem way behind clubs like them and Blackburn in developing our young players. Every season young players feature in warm up games but then disappear back to dev squad or get sent to Bamber Bridge or Chorley. Can anyone remember our last successful youth product. Really disappointed Apter not even a sub on saturday. He has done everything you would expect at his stage and looks decent quality. Bound to be inconsistent and make mistakes but he won't develop into first teamer without opportunities. No one comes into first team fully fledged. Really hope he gets the chance this season.
I was going to post the same thing, Apter would have improved us second half on Saturday.
At the moment all this talk from the club seems just that.
All talk.
 
Exeter city, a fan owned club, seem to have developed a successful cat 3 academy. Extract from BBC piece.

A future made in youth development​

Ollie Watkins playing for Exeter City
Ollie Watkins' transfer to Brentford, and subsequent sell-on clauses when he moved on to Aston Villa, has netted Exeter City around £6.5m
Most people in this part of Devon agree that Exeter's jewel in the crown is the club's youth academy.

With no rich benefactor to back the club in the transfer market, Exeter have had to produce their own players - both to staff their first team and provide revenue in player sales to other clubs.

England's Ollie Watkins, Wales' Ethan Ampadu, Swansea City captain Matt Grimes and Peterborough's Joel Randall have all left Exeter for fees in excess of £1m, while a host of other players have earned the club six-figure transfer fees.

"The night we won promotion there were seven academy players who started the game, and those academy players are big players now and are likely to be in demand during the summer," says Hawker.

"It's about finding your strength and what you can afford and really exploiting that."

He adds: "It's not just the people that go for million-pound transfers, but actually the people who play week in, week out.

"The academy's not luck, it's there by design and it's successful by design, and it's certainly one of the things that allows us to put a team on the pitch that can compete at this level."

Today's academy players now have use of a new £3m building that opened this year to replace a 'temporary' structure that was erected in 1974.

"It's possibly the greatest achievement of the Trust," says Fulls.

"Fans will always want a successful team on the pitch. We go to be entertained and we want to win things and we want promotions.

"You can spend money on players, they come and go with or without success. What the Trust has done is they've spent money wisely on the infrastructure which lays the foundations for success over a number of years."

"You set yourself these targets and somehow when you do that and see that vision, and you can see it in your mind, somehow you get there," Tagg proudly says outside the new training ground building.

"When you look back there's the Manchester United game, there's the Liverpool games, there's the 3G training pitch - but for me this is probably the biggest of all, to provide a facility for staff and for players that will take us to another level."
Exeter is an interesting example, but it’s significant that they’ve got a vast area to go at with very few professional football clubs looking at players. Complete contrast to us.
 
Connolly well out of position at LWB
That's only a fans opinion. Critch looks like he'll be playing inverted WBs this season as opposed to inverted wingers last time.
So he's just Critch's choice as the man for the job.
 
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That's only a fans opinion. Critch looks like he'll playing inverted WBs this season as opposed to inverted wingers last time.
So he's just Critch's choice as the man for the job.
Of course. Connolly isnt a wing back though is he? And he only appeared on yhe left in the last pre season game so it easnt the plan. We need somebody suited to that position and he hasnt tried LLyons there yet. Despite Lyons playing on the left as an inverted wing back at his previous club! Explain that.
 
Of course. Connolly isnt a wing back though is he? And he only appeared on yhe left in the last pre season game so it easnt the plan. We need somebody suited to that position and he hasnt tried LLyons there yet. Despite Lyons playing on the left as an inverted wing back at his previous club! Explain that.
simple. He didn't sign Lyons. And his 'favourites' are players he's signed for the club himself.
 
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