Brexit - FAIL!

JJpool said:
Basically, the majority in charge never believed in it, never wanted it or expected to lose. We haven't made the most of it because of the above and also because those who lost the vote never accepted it and fought it at every turn.

Brexit gives us the opportunities but you've got to believe in it and be willing to take them.

It might not have been as easy as some thought or made out but also it's too early to fully judge as also there's been huge unprecedented crisis like covid, also Ukraine that mean we can't really truly measure brexit alone.

It dows kind of highlight the joke of democracy really, you can vote any way you like, but if you go against the establishment they'll never accept it. Also you can vote for whoever you like but in reality it's 2 parties that get in because of a broken voting system.
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your posts are delusion like every other brexit adherent.

who was fighting against brexit and how were they fighting against it. arch brexiters like reece mogg were the ones to knock back mays plan

what are the opportunities? and why cant the brexit believing tories currently running the country as they have been for the last 7 years sort it out.
 
Matesrates said:
All of which could be sorted if both parties weren’t so stubborn. They should adopt where there’s a will there’s a way, instead of sticking to their stupid positions to make things difficult for each other. Forget egos, just get it sorted.
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Tend to agree Mates. Hopeful that Labour may be able to address some of these issues when they get in.
I do believe though that the EU may need plenty of persuading
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I don't see how we could re-enter even the single market without a referendum
We certainly couldn't rejoin the EU without one
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The UK joined the EEC without a referendum. The first one we had in 1975 asked the people whether we should stay in, not join.

Edit to say: However, after 2016, I accept the landscape has changed a lot.
 
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ElBurroSinNombre said:
It doesn't work because it never could work.
Please stop blaming other people and take responsibility for the clusterfuck that Brexit is, this is what you voted for. The consequences were predicted at the time of the referendum but they were dismissed at the time as 'project fear'. You got what you wanted but it hasn't really turned out as promised because what you were promised is actually impossible to achieve - as was pointed out at the time. There was never a clear plan and consequently there is no strategy for a successful Brexit.

On the future, I feel that the pragmatic way forward is to rejoin the EFTA and restart free-trade with our neighbors which would restart freedom of movement. We can do that and still respect the outcome of the referendum and keep our own currency. It would have a beneficial effect on growth (solves the shortage of labour problem) and will attract inward investment without the need for bribes from the government. I feel that this compromise is the sensible half way house that Brexit should have been (as the vote was very close), we could become more independent from the EU as time progressed if we had wanted. I suspect that it will take about 10 years for the political class to come to this conclusion, I hope that the interim years are not too damaging.
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Of course it could, it won't work though when, as has been the case, remoaners have done their best to block and thwart at every turn. So take some responsibility for that, if you're blaming people who voted for the actions of politicians.

No, there were lies like the punishment budget forecast, instant recession etc.

The EU wants ever closer Union, we never wanted that and the whole thing was done by stealth initially.

Instead of focusing on the past like a bunch of whingebags, it's time as should have happened straight away) to set a new course and focus on maximising global opportunities. Maybe even a better deal with thr EU can be reached without having to cede control and get back things people voted against.

Of course though with a majority of the political class etc against it, it's hardly a surprise it hasn't worked as well as it could yet and hardly fills anyone with confidence that it will in the future. I can't wait to see what the brilliant labour party can do.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
your posts are delusion like every other brexit adherent.

who was fighting against brexit and how were they fighting against it. arch brexiters like reece mogg were the ones to knock back mays plan

what are the opportunities? and why cant the brexit believing tories currently running the country as they have been for the last 7 years sort it out.
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Your posts are lacking the appropriate punctuation and sentence structure.

The tories are pretty useless unless you haven't noticed, didn't even have a plan, many jumped on board to further their careers and if you go back to after the vote, look how the remainers did their best to block everything.

A strong united parliament, who accepted the result, is far more likely to get a better deal.

You also have to be prepared to walk away. The EU knew full well that the remainers didn't accept it and took advantage of how divided parliament was.
 
Anyway congratulations BFC on the obvious 300 coming, a lot of remoaning energy to be still be released on AVFTT, so well done for seeing that and allowing people to get it off thier chests.
 
JJpool said:
Anyway congratulations BFC on the obvious 300 coming, a lot of remoaning energy to be still be released on AVFTT, so well done for seeing that and allowing people to get it off thier chests.
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You've posted on this thread more than anyone.
 
JJpool said:
Your posts are lacking the appropriate punctuation and sentence structure.

The tories are pretty useless unless you haven't noticed, didn't even have a plan, many jumped on board to further their careers and if you go back to after the vote, look how the remainers did their best to block everything.

A strong united parliament, who accepted the result, is far more likely to get a better deal.

You also have to be prepared to walk away. The EU knew full well that the remainers didn't accept it and took advantage of how divided parliament was.
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As I always say at this point, name one advantage that Brexit has brought us.

Just one, or is that all a big conspiracy as well, to keep it all quiet as well?
 
Wizaard said:
As I always say at this point, name one advantage that Brexit has brought us.

Just one, or is that all a big conspiracy as well, to keep it all quiet as well?
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We have regained our sovereignty.

There's loads, hasn't even been taken full advantage of either.

Google them, including at the time the vaccine rollout.
 
Archibald Knox said:
“Politburo” was a tongue-in-cheek comment, I could have used the word “Apparatchik” instead with the same effect and less ideology.

However to claim that the EU Commission President is not political and like the Civil Service is ludicrous if that is what you implied. Ursula von der Leyen is a politician down to her fingertips and toenails - she was Germany’s Defence Minister under Angela Merkel. And before her it was Jean-Claude Juncker, who happened to be Prime Minister of Luxembourg for about 17 years and turned his country into a low-tax haven parasitical to Europe.

The EU Commission President acts as a Chief Executive and is appointed but make no mistake that the appointment is based on political ideology and nothing much else. It is entirely appropriate to view any decisions from the Commission through a political lens, they can have an agenda that varies from the EU Parliament.
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I used the civil service as a quick and easy way of showing that executive agencies in Government are not elected. In the EU it is the European Parliament that is elected. Yes, the Commission President can be a political appointment but all major changes to the way that the EU operates or the way that it is constituted, has to be approved by the Council of Ministers.
 
JJpool said:
We have regained our sovereignty.

There's loads, hasn't even been taken full advantage of either.

Google them, including at the time the vaccine rollout.
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It would be helpful if you could read some of the other posts on this thread. For instance, mine at #31 deals with the sovereignty issue.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
It would be helpful if you could read some of the other posts on this thread. For instance, mine at #31 deals with the sovereignty issue.
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We weren't fully in control, we couldn't stop freedom of movement for e.g.

We have now 'taken back control' but it still relies on our politicians to get things right.

But we are now the masters of our own destiny.
 
JJpool said:
We weren't fully in control, we couldn't stop freedom of movement for e.g.

We have now 'taken back control' but it still relies on our politicians to get things right.

But we are now the masters of our own destiny.
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Of course we were in control. We signed up to freedom of movement.
 
Matesrates said:
That’s it, but us seriously thick oldies can’t think for ourselves apparently, so we have to listen to politicians.
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Apparently so...

No, I was unfair in my original post when I said 'old people', it was a sweeping statement that comes from my own experiences with older members of my family. Although as you're a regular user of this site you're probably used to sweeping statements, so I hope you didn't take it personally.

I'd prefer the older people in my inner circle used something like this site to get more of a balanced view (perhaps that's pushing it), rather than sitting at home getting outraged about how many Asians you see these days, how many women are on TV, and how things were better when they were a lad etc.

Apologies for categorising you with these people because of your age.

Whichever way you voted, we were all lied to by politicians and people who had a vested interest. I wish people would have had the whole picture prior to the vote because I absolutely believe we would have had a different outcome. It was all catchy slogans, scare tactics, and false promises.

Please forgive me for being irritated by the gargantuan shit show.
 
JJpool said:
We weren't fully in control, we couldn't stop freedom of movement for e.g.

We have now 'taken back control' but it still relies on our politicians to get things right.

But we are now the masters of our own destiny.
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Clearly. Borders fully under control and strict access.
 
bollieboy said:
And for the umpteenth time leaving the EU gave no advantage for Covid vaccine rollout.

fullfact.org

Vaccine approval isn’t quicker because of Brexit - Full Fact

The MHRA could have given the Pfizer vaccine the same emergency approval when the UK was in the EU.
fullfact.org fullfact.org
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That's debatable.

One can quite easily see Cameron, weakened by splits over Europe, deciding to follow the path of least resistance and signing up for the EU scheme, which would've likely meant no Oxford/AZ vaccine, the EU dithering about with paperwork and delaying the roll-out into mid-late 2021 and beyond, resulting in many more deaths and lockdown stretching into 2022, and the pandemic ending mainly because of Omicron.

It certainly didn't hurt.
 
JJpool said:
We weren't fully in control, we couldn't stop freedom of movement for e.g.

We have now 'taken back control' but it still relies on our politicians to get things right.

But we are now the masters of our own destiny.
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I had a bash at Freedom of Movement in post 56, you may not agree but it's my take JJ-come-lately.

You sound like you've been brainwashed. 'Taken back control', 'Masters of our own Destiny', and the best one 'Rely on our politicians to get things right'!!!

Sounds like a load of soundbite bollocks, in my humble opinion.
 
JJpool said:
The people didn't. It was sold as a common market.

The fact is we have control now over things we didn't before. We can do well with it we can make a mess of it.


That point has nothing to do with what we can do.
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Sheesh! The people elected a Government. The Government signed up to freedom of movement. What do you think we have now? We still elect a Government and we still have the rule of law. How much more control over legislation do you personally have now that we are out of the EU?
 
Sven said:
I had a bash at Freedom of Movement in post 56, you may not agree but it's my take JJ-come-lately.

You sound like you've been brainwashed. 'Taken back control', 'Masters of our own Destiny', and the best one 'Rely on our politicians to get things right'!!!

Sounds like a load of soundbite bollocks, in my humble opinion.
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You joined the site in May, sven-come lately.

Well at some point you have to rely on politicians to get stuff right. You could say the same about slogans on the remain side.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Sheesh! The people elected a Government. The Government signed up to freedom of movement. What do you think we have now? We still elect a Government and we still have the rule of law. How much more control over legislation do you personally have now that we are out of the EU?
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The people only ever voted for a common market, not some European superstate. That was the plan all along of course, bit by bit, boring piece of legislation by boring bit.

Anyway I really CBA debating brexit all over again as said the other day and as usual these threads become a lefty pile on whenever I post so I'm out.

It's probably time some got over the vote.
 
Sven said:
I had a bash at Freedom of Movement in post 56, you may not agree but it's my take JJ-come-lately.

You sound like you've been brainwashed. 'Taken back control', 'Masters of our own Destiny', and the best one 'Rely on our politicians to get things right'!!!

Sounds like a load of soundbite bollocks, in my humble opinion.
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Yep, I think you`re right Sven.

JJ (previously known as Dodgy Keeper) is a tin foil hat extremist in most things as I remember, whether it be Brexit, Covid, Trump, WEF, Soros, MSM, Qanon, Illuminati, or whatever.

You name it and he`s been a fully paid up member of that conspiracy club and is happy to preach from down his rabbit hole telling you why everyone is out of step but him.

Seems a nice fella though...:)
 
JJpool said:
You joined the site in May, sven-come lately.

Well at some point you have to rely on politicians to get stuff right. You could say the same about slogans on the remain side.
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I've been posting on here for years, I've had a few breaks, not that it matters.
 
spudgun said:
Yep, I think you`re right Sven.

JJ (previously known as Dodgy Keeper) is a tin foil hat extremist in most things as I remember, whether it be Brexit, Covid, Trump, WEF, Soros, MSM, Qanon, Illuminati, or whatever.

You name it and he`s been a fully paid up member of that conspiracy club and is happy to preach from down his rabbit hole telling you why everyone is out of step but him.

Seems a nice fella though...:)
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Said I wasn't going to reply but you've just literally made up a whole post.

Never been anything but JJpool on this and the old site and the rest is complete bullshit too.

Never even commented on half the things you mention.
 
spudgun said:
Yep, I think you`re right Sven.

JJ (previously known as Dodgy Keeper) is a tin foil hat extremist in most things as I remember, whether it be Brexit, Covid, Trump, WEF, Soros, MSM, Qanon, Illuminati, or whatever.

You name it and he`s been a fully paid up member of that conspiracy club and is happy to preach from down his rabbit hole telling you why everyone is out of step but him.

Seems a nice fella though...:)
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I might post a thread about attendances so he stops watching GB News for a few hours...

Only joking JJ 😉
 
JJpool said:
Said I wasn't going to reply but you've just literally made up a whole post.

Never been anything but JJpool on this and the old site and the rest is complete bullshit too.

Never even commented on half the things you mention.
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Is Spudgun a lefty extremist spreading fake news to get you cancelled 😉
 
Sven said:
Is Spudgun a lefty extremist spreading fake news to get you cancelled 😉
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"Actually, I`m very right-wing!" 🙃

Have you ever listened to the BBC radio sitcom `The Cold Swedish Winter", Sven?

English guy living in Sweden with Swedish girlfriend, cultural differences and whatnot.

Really good...
 
JJpool said:
Of course it could, it won't work though when, as has been the case, remoaners have done their best to block and thwart at every turn. So take some responsibility for that, if you're blaming people who voted for the actions of politicians.
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Boris Johnson was elected with a majority of 80 to get Brexit done.
Can you tell me specifically which bits of Brexit legislation the remoaners have blocked?
Can you give some examples of how they have thwarted the government as you state?
 
spudgun said:
"Actually, I`m very right-wing!" 🙃

Have you ever listened to the BBC radio sitcom `The Cold Swedish Winter", Sven?

English guy living in Sweden with Swedish girlfriend, cultural differences and whatnot.

Really good...
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I haven't but I will definitely check it out. Cheers!
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yes it’s been done to death and, of course, this same question has been asked a thousand times and more, but I’m interested to hear a bit of genuine honesty, rather than the usual polarised nonsense…. There’s no prizes for having been ‘right all along’ and you’re not less of a man / woman if you supported Brexit and now acknowledge that it’s been a massive flop…. The most important thing is that we get our Country back on track and it feels to me like a reversal of Brexit aka Breentry is where it’s at.

I’ll just say that it’s a debate I’ve largely steered clear of to be honest. I had no strong feelings either way (although I voted remain) and I was supportive that the Government should implement the will of the people…. The problem I have now is…

1. It’s been an absolute fuck up and is damaging (and will continue ti damage) our country and our people.

2. The will of the people right now would almost certainly be to return to the EU (and I suspect it would be quite overwhelming - 60% +)

3. Even goons like Farage have been forced ti admit that his own plan has completely failed.

So let’s have your honest thoughts…. And let’s get back into the EU sharpish and start putting the Great back into Great Britain…

I’ve attached a poll for interest sale..
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I agree with all that, total fuck up
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Boris Johnson was elected with a majority of 80 to get Brexit done.
Can you tell me specifically which bits of Brexit legislation the remoaners have blocked?
Can you give some examples of how they have thwarted the government as you state?
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I presume you didn't live through the all that nonsense after brexit? Just Google how remainers try to block brexit and there's tons of articles containing info.

As said cba debating it all, we left get over it.
 
JJpool said:
I presume you didn't live through the all that nonsense after brexit? Just Google how remainers try to block brexit and there's tons of articles containing info.

As said cba debating it all, we left get over it.
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For someone who told me they were out of the debate at 8.30pm and that we should just get over it, it seems you can't quite let it go...2 hours later.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
For someone who told me they were out of the debate at 8.30pm and that we should just get over it, it seems you can't quite let it go...2 hours later.
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People keep replying...

godfather-the-godfather.gif


It's hard to leave isn't it, when you don't really believe in it and are just going along with it, there is an urge to remain, so you can have a seat at the table and see what's said, I see that now.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yes it’s been done to death and, of course, this same question has been asked a thousand times and more, but I’m interested to hear a bit of genuine honesty, rather than the usual polarised nonsense…. There’s no prizes for having been ‘right all along’ and you’re not less of a man / woman if you supported Brexit and now acknowledge that it’s been a massive flop…. The most important thing is that we get our Country back on track and it feels to me like a reversal of Brexit aka Breentry is where it’s at.

I’ll just say that it’s a debate I’ve largely steered clear of to be honest. I had no strong feelings either way (although I voted remain) and I was supportive that the Government should implement the will of the people…. The problem I have now is…

1. It’s been an absolute fuck up and is damaging (and will continue ti damage) our country and our people.

2. The will of the people right now would almost certainly be to return to the EU (and I suspect it would be quite overwhelming - 60% +)

3. Even goons like Farage have been forced ti admit that his own plan has completely failed.

So let’s have your honest thoughts…. And let’s get back into the EU sharpish and start putting the Great back into Great Britain…

I’ve attached a poll for interest sale..
Click to expand...

What a load of patronising tosh.

Completely disingenuous. ‘I had no strong feelings either way…. But I voted Remain’ you say. What a silly thing to write. Do you really expect me to believe that?

If you had no strong feelings either way, you wouldn’t have voted. You certainly had strong enough feelings to have got yourself down to the polling station and marked an X in the Remain box, after careful consideration.

By the way, the UK voted to leave, not Great Britain. And in any case, the Great in Great Britain doesn’t mean fantastic or wonderful.

Your o/p is completely extreme and biased. It’s written to whip up a remainer storm. Looking at the posts, it’s certainly done that. It doesn’t take much. We were lied to. Moan moan remoan. Blaa blaa blaa.

You say you’re interested to hear opinions but not the usual polarised nonsense. Yet you follow those words with a load of very polarised comments.
What you really mean is you’re not interested in hearing any opinions that differ to yours. Instead as you put it, you want to hear ‘genuine honesty’.
There’s a recurring theme with your posts and your attitude on avftt. You don’t want the media to cover stories that you don’t agree with. You don’t want comments on Brexit that aren’t in line with yours cos they’re in your words ‘polarised nonsense’.

I will engage in serious mature debate. But not in a debate which starts with an opening gambit which itself is utterly polarised.

You try and pre-emptively undermine anyone who might disagree with you by saying dissenters are no less of a man/woman if they’ve changed their mind on Brexit. 🤣🤣What a stupid thing to say. That’s not how to prompt a mature positive debate. It’s childish and pathetic.

You have your own views of the world which is fine. But time and again you show how closed minded you are. These tactics you use to try and undermine anyone with a different opinion merely show your insecurity and your emotional immaturity. As Jack Nicholson says, ‘you can’t handle the truth’. Well how could you when you can’t handle different opinions. When are you going to grow up? Maybe when we rejoin the
EU, or in other words, not anytime soon.
 
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JJpool said:
I presume you didn't live through the all that nonsense after brexit? Just Google how remainers try to block brexit and there's tons of articles containing info.

As said cba debating it all, we left get over it.
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Theresa May's plans were blocked by a coalition of Labour MPs, some pro EU Tories and also some Brexiteer Tories. Her Brexit deal in 2019 was rejected by a majority of 230 votes of all types and in a second vote by a majority of 149 votes. Both of these votes included many Brexit supporting Conservative MPs. So it wasn't really a 'remainer plot' as you would have it as many pro-Brexit MPs voted against her deal.

After May's premiership we had a GE which Johnson won with a majority in parliament of 80. Johnson then negotiated and got the Brexit that he wanted and the various Conservative government's since have had big majorities to do what they want with the new situation.

Can you therefore justify your assertion that Brexit has been thwarted - how has it been thwarted?
What should have been done but hasn't been done because it has been blocked by 'the blob'?
What should be done by any future government to make the most of the opportunities that Brexit gives the UK?
 
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