Brexit - FAIL!

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

What a load of patronising tosh.

Completely disingenuous. ‘I had no strong feelings either way…. But I voted Remain’ you say. What a silly thing to write. Do you really expect me to believe that?

If you had no strong feelings either way, you wouldn’t have voted. You certainly had strong enough feelings to have got yourself down to the polling station and marked an X in the Remain box, after careful consideration.

By the way, the UK voted to leave, not Great Britain. And in any case, the Great in Great Britain doesn’t mean fantastic or wonderful.

Your o/p is completely extreme and biased. It’s written to whip up a remainer storm. Looking at the posts, it’s certainly done that. It doesn’t take much. We were lied to. Moan moan remoan. Blaa blaa blaa.

You say you’re interested to hear opinions but not the usual polarised nonsense. Yet you follow those words with a load of very polarised comments.
What you really mean is you’re not interested in hearing any opinions that differ to yours. Instead as you put it, you want to hear ‘genuine honesty’.
There’s a recurring theme with your posts and your attitude on avftt. You don’t want the media to cover stories that you don’t agree with. You don’t want comments on Brexit that aren’t in line with yours cos they’re in your words ‘polarised nonsense’.

I will engage in serious mature debate. But not in a debate which starts with an opening gambit which itself is utterly polarised.

You try and pre-emptively undermine anyone who might disagree with you by saying dissenters are no less of a man/woman if they’ve changed their mind on Brexit. What a stupid thing to say. That’s not how to prompt a mature positive debate. It’s childish and pathetic.

You have your own views of the world which is fine. But time and again you show how closed minded you are. These tactics you use to try and undermine anyone with a different opinion merely show your insecurity and your emotional immaturity. As Jack Nicholson says, ‘you can’t handle the truth’. Well how could you when you can’t handle different opinions. When are you going to grow up? Maybe when we rejoin the
EU, or in other words, not anytime soon.

Well firstly, I wouldn’t say it, if it weren’t true, but it’s entirely up to you whether or not to believe me. If you knew me personally then you would though.

I voted remain, because (on balance) I decided that a ‘better the devil you know’ approach was the appropriate for someone in my position.

I’m not sure it’s really up to you to be determining my right to vote and censoring me, simply because I didn’t share yours and others extreme views tbh. Though that’s what seems to pass as acceptable in ‘extreme view world’.

When referencing ‘Great Britain’ I was parodying the kind of low grade patriotic nonsense that appears to have underpinned the decision to leave in the first place.

My O/P was as a result of an interview I’d seen where Rebecca Jane Sutton had said that we ought to have another referendum and Farage had admitted that Brexit wasn’t working (of course he had a number of excuses and blamed others).

So I decided to write an O/P to reflect the current circumstances and also the significant shift in not only Farage’s opinion on Brexit, but also my own. I’ve gone from ‘Fence Sitter’ to ‘Advocate of Get BREXIT DONE’ to ‘Jesus Christ, What the Fuck have we done’… Now I realise that changing opinion on these matters is somewhat alien to some of you, but that’s an honest account of where I’m at (and will be backed up by my posting history on Brexit, which has been limited).

I injected a small amount of humour into the O/P in the hope that people might at least try to focus on truth, rather than the kind of politically motivated tripe that we’re used to. (suffice to say, I’m not surprised by the ego-centric responses).

I understand you tend to prefer to attack the poster instead of challenging yourself with the subject matter. That has been an underlying theme in many of our recent exchanges and I notice you adopt the same approach with others with whose opinion you don’t agree…. I mean you call me ‘childish’, but it ain’t me who goes into Sulky Simon mode every time someone post something I don’t agree with..That’s a shame, because I’m sure you could construct a sensible (subject focused) response if you put your mind to it.

I’m sorry you find the subject matter and my opinion based O/P too challenging. Though others seem to have managed to engage with the subject which is good

 

[spudgun]

Yep , agree with most of that BFC.

I suspect a lot of people didn`t have strong feelings and were perhaps 52:48 one way or the other; I don`t see this as something that stretches incredulity at all. I was certainly in that camp.

I would imagine many of those (if they had voted leave) would possibly have changed their minds. That`s what minds are for.

Obviously those who have an ideological persuasion towards "sovereignty" will never recant, but neither will they be able to extol the tangible benefits the country has received over the last 5 years...

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

@spudgun there are loads of people I speak to who were similarly minded. From a personal perspective I find it amazing that sone people are so absolutely certain that they have all of the answers… The moment I feel remotely certain about anything I start to wonder if I’m missing something.

Likewise, I tend to think that changing your mind to reflect new information is just a natural thing to do. Though it seems to be viewed as some kind of weakness or admission of deep personal failure… I don’t get it.

I do wonder if the more vitriolic responses, which tend to come from the more fundamental Brexit Supporters, are borne out of a personal frustration that they’ve simply dug a hole that they’re ego won’t let them climb out of.

In the case of Nigel Farage, he has made a begrudging admission that Brexit is a complete disaster, but has framed it with the blame on the Government’s ‘poor implementation’. However I’d rather have that kind of ‘ego cushioned’ admission than the kind of blatant refusal to acknowledge reality we see from some.

At least if we can all acknowledge it’s a fuck up, then we have half a chance of doing something about it.

 

[JJpool]

Theresa May's plans were blocked by a coalition of Labour MPs, some pro EU Tories and also some Brexiteer Tories. Her Brexit deal in 2019 was rejected by a majority of 230 votes of all types and in a second vote by a majority of 149 votes. Both of these votes included many Brexit supporting Conservative MPs. So it wasn't really a 'remainer plot' as you would have it as many pro-Brexit MPs voted against her deal.

After May's premiership we had a GE which Johnson won with a majority in parliament of 80. Johnson then negotiated and got the Brexit that he wanted and the various Conservative government's since have had big majorities to do what they want with the new situation.

Can you therefore justify your assertion that Brexit has been thwarted - how has it been thwarted?
What should have been done but hasn't been done because it has been blocked by 'the blob'?
What should be done by any future government to make the most of the opportunities that Brexit gives the UK?

I take it you can't read and research. If you can't see how remainers we're determined to limit snd slow brexit down, in the hope of another vote, or not even leaving at all, then there's no hope for you. I'm not going back many years finding it all for you. I'm sure Gina Miller would have done the same the other way round Look at the House of Lords. High profile mps and figures saying we didn't have to leave and could have another vote to stay before even implementing the 1st. "It was only advisory"...Not allowing a negotiating position of being able to walk away, aka no deal, meaning the EU knew full well parliament and other elements were not behind it, so knew we wouldn't walk away, you never get a good deal that way.

"Oh, no matter what, I'm definitely going to buy your car, but what's your best offer?"

 

[Wizaard]

I presume you didn't live through the all that nonsense after brexit? Just Google how remainers try to block brexit and there's tons of articles containing info.

As said cba debating it all, we left get over it.

What makes me laugh (in a bitter sort of way) is how one minute we're told, we've left, get over it, then the next it's down to Remainers to sort out the way we go forward.

Brexiteers caused it to happen. Now own it and make it work. Not my responsibility, your's

 

[Lost Seasider]

I take it you can't read and research. If you can't see how remainers we're determined to limit snd slow brexit down, in the hope of another vote, or not even leaving at all, then there's no hope for you. I'm not going back many years finding it all for you. I'm sure Gina Miller would have done the same the other way round Look at the House of Lords. High profile mps and figures saying we didn't have to leave and could have another vote to stay before even implementing the 1st. "It was only advisory"...Not allowing a negotiating position of being able to walk away, aka no deal, meaning the EU knew full well parliament and other elements were not behind it, so knew we wouldn't walk away, you never get a good deal that way.

"Oh, no matter what, I'm definitely going to buy your car, but what's your best offer?"

Labour Party manifesto, page 89:

Labour will give the people the final say on Brexit. Within three months of coming to power, a Labour government will secure a sensible deal. And within six months, we will put that deal to a public vote alongside the option to remain.

Labour rules out a no-deal Brexit,

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

I take it you can't read and research. If you can't see how remainers we're determined to limit snd slow brexit down, in the hope of another vote, or not even leaving at all, then there's no hope for you. I'm not going back many years finding it all for you. I'm sure Gina Miller would have done the same the other way round Look at the House of Lords. High profile mps and figures saying we didn't have to leave and could have another vote to stay before even implementing the 1st. "It was only advisory"...Not allowing a negotiating position of being able to walk away, aka no deal, meaning the EU knew full well parliament and other elements were not behind it, so knew we wouldn't walk away, you never get a good deal that way.

"Oh, no matter what, I'm definitely going to buy your car, but what's your best offer?"

Yes, there was a period of uncertainty.

And then we had an election where the 'Get Brexit Done' government won an 80 seat majority and therefore could do what it wanted as regards Brexit without worrying about getting it through the Houses of Parliament. And despite what you have stated above a 'no-deal' was definitely on the table;

Boris Johnson threatens no-deal, but may keep talking

Britain and the European Union still have good reasons, and a bit of time, to find an agreement

www.economist.com

So how exactly did 'the blob', 'remainers' etc frustrate Brexit?
The government was able to implement Brexit as it wanted.
How should it have done things differently?
What can we do differently in the future to make the most of Brexit opportunities?

 

[JJpool]

Yes, there was a period of uncertainty.

And then we had an election where the 'Get Brexit Done' government won an 80 seat majority and therefore could do what it wanted as regards Brexit without worrying about getting it through the Houses of Parliament. And despite what you have stated above a 'no-deal' was definitely on the table;

Boris Johnson threatens no-deal, but may keep talking

Britain and the European Union still have good reasons, and a bit of time, to find an agreement

www.economist.com

So how exactly did 'the blob', 'remainers' etc frustrate Brexit?
The government was able to implement Brexit as it wanted.
How should it have done things differently?
What can we do differently in the future to make the most of Brexit opportunities?

Righhht, so basically apart from all those times where remainers tried to block brexit, where do they block brexit. Give over.

I've already said I don't think the tories delivered a very good brexit, many didn't really believe in it and only jumped on for seeming political gain.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Righhht, so basically apart from all those times where remainers tried to block brexit, where do they block brexit. Give over.

I've already said I don't think the tories delivered a very good brexit, many didn't really believe in it and only jumped on for seeming political gain.

So had the ‘Brexit Frustraters’ not frustrated Brexit (all of which was totally predictable by the way) and the Tories not failed to deliver Brexit, in the particular way it needed to be delivered in order for it to be successful, what specifically would have been different for the average bloke on the street?

I mean I’m struggling to see how anything woukd have been much different… And surely if Brexit was so susceptible and flimsy around the edges, then it was a pretty shit idea to begin with.?

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

Righhht, so basically apart from all those times where remainers tried to block brexit, where do they block brexit. Give over.

I've already said I don't think the tories delivered a very good brexit, many didn't really believe in it and only jumped on for seeming political gain.

But the truth is that the opposition didn't block Brexit in the end because the government was able to deliver the Brexit that it wanted with an 80 seat majority.

So when you blame 'remoaners' for the current mess as you have done repeatedly, it's just not true, the deal that we got, the deal that you accept isn't working very well, was negotiated and implemented unencumbered by Johnson's government. The current situation has got everything to do with Brexiteers who seem to have negotiated a worst of all worlds situation. But it has absolutely nothing to do with remainers. So please stop lazily blaming them for something they had nothing to do with.

What should have been done differently?
What should we do differently in the future to take advantage of Brexit?

 

[Matesrates]

I can’t actually say that as an individual Brexit has changed anything. Covid and Ukraine certainly have, but nothing I can see is better or worse. Ok, you may need paperwork to visit an eu country, but millions do every year. Supermarke shelves are full, my bins are being collected, peop are out spending money, kids are in school, I’ve had very good experiences with the nhs in the last year, so I’m struggling to see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Costero Poderoso]

Righhht, so basically apart from all those times where remainers tried to block brexit, where do they block brexit. Give over.

I've already said I don't think the tories delivered a very good brexit, many didn't really believe in it and only jumped on for seeming political gain.

Who were the remainers blocking Brexit and how did they do it, because Brexit happened, and not in the way that Brexit campaigners said it would happen, ie., triggerred before any clear understanding of terms.

What Brexit should the Tories have delivered?????

 

[Limechase]

We will have less financial problems when we stop paying the EU the divorce settlement, saving billions?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Who were the remainers blocking Brexit and how did they do it, because Brexit happened, and not in the way that Brexit campaigners said it would happen, ie., triggerred before any clear understanding of terms.

What Brexit should the Tories have delivered?????

They should have delivered the version with a really good outcome, instead of the version with a really shit one... They chose the wrong Brexit

 

[JJpool]

So had the ‘Brexit Frustraters’ not frustrated Brexit (all of which was totally predictable by the way) and the Tories not failed to deliver Brexit, in the particular way it needed to be delivered in order for it to be successful, what specifically would have been different for the average bloke on the street?

I mean I’m struggling to see how anything woukd have been much different… And surely if Brexit was so susceptible and flimsy around the edges, then it was a pretty shit idea to begin with.?

Given all the faffing and other issues like covid, there's barely been any time of 'normality' to judge brexit on. Maybe if people accepted it straight away we'd be further along before covid hit.

But the truth is that the opposition didn't block Brexit in the end because the government was able to deliver the Brexit that it wanted with an 80 seat majority.

So when you blame 'remoaners' for the current mess as you have done repeatedly, it's just not true, the deal that we got, the deal that you accept isn't working very well, was negotiated and implemented unencumbered by Johnson's government. The current situation has got everything to do with Brexiteers who seem to have negotiated a worst of all worlds situation. But it has absolutely nothing to do with remainers. So please stop lazily blaming them for something they had nothing to do with.

What should have been done differently?
What should we do differently in the future to take advantage of Brexit?

You said for brexit voters to take responsibility, I said the same for remainers who were trying to block it or slow it etc. I've answered you questions, not interested in going back and answering it all for you. Maybe we might have got a US trade deal done if we acted faster.

Who were the remainers blocking Brexit and how did they do it, because Brexit happened, and not in the way that Brexit campaigners said it would happen, ie., triggerred before any clear understanding of terms.

What Brexit should the Tories have delivered?????

Already answered that.

There's many things we could have done, for fishing, to cutting VAT on energy.

British economy will outperform Germany this year, IMF admits

Europe’s biggest economy risks becoming stuck between stagnation and recession

www.telegraph.co.uk

Interesting were now set for growth where before contraction was predicted.

 

[Wizaard]

We had a 20% drop so there's bound to be some growth in a bounce back sort of way. Still miles behind where we should be and certainly not attributable to Brexit.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Given all the faffing and other issues like covid, there's barely been any time of 'normality' to judge brexit on. Maybe if people accepted it straight away we'd be further along before covid hit.

Maybe.... And Maybe Covid has just served to underline exactly why Brexit was a bit of a daft idea?

 

[JJpool]

We had a 20% drop so there's bound to be some growth in a bounce back sort of way. Still miles behind where we should be and certainly not attributable to Brexit.

Totally agree, any bad news is brexit.

Maybe.... And Maybe Covid has just served to underline exactly why Brexit was a bit of a daft idea?

On the contrary, brexit proved covid was a bad idea.

 

[Costero Poderoso]

Already answered that.

No you havent and I've been through your posts, cos I'm anally retentive and a bit bored.

You've deflected and quoted well worn brexit memes. Even the Gina Miller references which are the only specifics you quote are incorrect in that she didnt slow down brexit, because it happened exactly at the time it was due to happen. Miller challenged the legality of the article 50 trigger, and her challenge was largely upheld but it didnt actually change the outcome of brexit. 4

May had a majority pro brexit cabinet and everyone on her cabinet had publicly committed to brexit. Johnson had a heavily pro brexit cabinet, Truss had a pro brexit cabinet, and Sunak has always claimed to be a brexit supporter.

If four administrations who have been prepared to break parliamentary rules, ignore the high court, lie to parliament, to the Queen and the public in order to not be held accountable for their actions, and exited the EU exactly on the date that article 50 stated would be the date of the exit, and are still to this day blaming the EU for intransience or anti UK bias. Again, with specifics, explain how remainers blocked brexit, or even how remain supporters who havent been in power or anywhere near power managed to make brexit worse than it should have been.

There's many things we could have done, for fishing, to cutting VAT on energy.

this is an interesting point of view, and at least states something tangible, but EUMP's such as Farage could have used their position in the EUP to change regulations on fishing, and the uk government could have reduced VAT on energy to a penny per billing cycle and still remain within EU regs.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Totally agree, any bad news is brexit.


On the contrary, brexit proved covid was a bad idea.

CoViD wasn’t an idea though… So that comment makes no sense.

Brexit was the ‘idea’ … It appears to have lacked resilience.

 

[JJpool]

CoViD wasn’t an idea though… So that comment makes no sense.

Brexit was the ‘idea’ … It appears to have lacked resilience.

It was meant to be humorous.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

It was meant to be humorous.

As OK

So how do we fix this shit?

 

[Mexboroseasider]

No you havent and I've been through your posts, cos I'm anally retentive and a bit bored.

You've deflected and quoted well worn brexit memes. Even the Gina Miller references which are the only specifics you quote are incorrect in that she didnt slow down brexit, because it happened exactly at the time it was due to happen. Miller challenged the legality of the article 50 trigger, and her challenge was largely upheld but it didnt actually change the outcome of brexit. 4

May had a majority pro brexit cabinet and everyone on her cabinet had publicly committed to brexit. Johnson had a heavily pro brexit cabinet, Truss had a pro brexit cabinet, and Sunak has always claimed to be a brexit supporter.

If four administrations who have been prepared to break parliamentary rules, ignore the high court, lie to parliament, to the Queen and the public in order to not be held accountable for their actions, and exited the EU exactly on the date that article 50 stated would be the date of the exit, and are still to this day blaming the EU for intransience or anti UK bias. Again, with specifics, explain how remainers blocked brexit, or even how remain supporters who havent been in power or anywhere near power managed to make brexit worse than it should have been.



this is an interesting point of view, and at least states something tangible, but EUMP's such as Farage could have used their position in the EUP to change regulations on fishing, and the uk government could have reduced VAT on energy to a penny per billing cycle and still remain within EU regs.

Spot on. Lot of rewriting of history by JJ there as usual.

May triggered Article 50 and we left the EU on the date specified by Article 50.

And we left on the terms of Johnson’s “Oven Ready Deal” which was pretty much what the EU had proposed at the outset. That’s the deal that created the border in the Irish Sea and all the problems with NI. May of course said no U.K. government could sign up to that, hence the protracted negotiations on the back stop which Johnson and his cabal voted against. Immediately afterwards surrendering to the EU and giving them what they wanted.

So all this bollux about Remainers causing a delay is just that. Bollux.

First there was no delay.

And secondly because the major problems were caused by Johnson and his lunatics. Not the Remainers.

 

[JJpool]

As OK

So how do we fix this shit?

What's broken?

The businesses who need to adjust will have done so and are already and will continue to do so.

Rather than turning to cheap foreign labour each time, businesses and government will have to start making jobs more attractive, training our own people more etc.

 

[JJpool]

Spot on. Lot of rewriting of history by JJ there as usual.

May triggered Article 50 and we left the EU on the date specified by Article 50.

And we left on the terms of Johnson’s “Oven Ready Deal” which was pretty much what the EU had proposed at the outset. That’s the deal that created the border in the Irish Sea and all the problems with NI. May of course said no U.K. government could sign up to that, hence the protracted negotiations on the back stop which Johnson and his cabal voted against. Immediately afterwards surrendering to the EU and giving them what they wanted.

So all this bollux about Remainers causing a delay is just that. Bollux.

First there was no delay.

And secondly because the major problems were caused by Johnson and his lunatics. Not the Remainers.

I haven't rewritten history, only pointed out remainers never accepted the result and many did all they could to block and frustrate things.

Speaking of rewriting history, you recently denied the vast majority of the establishment were for remain. It's laughable.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Spot on. Lot of rewriting of history by JJ there as usual.

May triggered Article 50 and we left the EU on the date specified by Article 50.

And we left on the terms of Johnson’s “Oven Ready Deal” which was pretty much what the EU had proposed at the outset. That’s the deal that created the border in the Irish Sea and all the problems with NI. May of course said no U.K. government could sign up to that, hence the protracted negotiations on the back stop which Johnson and his cabal voted against. Immediately afterwards surrendering to the EU and giving them what they wanted.

So all this bollux about Remainers causing a delay is just that. Bollux.

First there was no delay.

And secondly because the major problems were caused by Johnson and his lunatics. Not the Remainers.

I know I keep repeating myself here but for the very last time you lost it wasn’t a best of 3 vote so you remoaners need to accept a democratic vote and simply accept the outcome and get on with life.

FFS the Jocks with be after another vote next and they’ve never stopped moaning either.

 

[JJpool]

No you havent and I've been through your posts, cos I'm anally retentive and a bit bored.

You've deflected and quoted well worn brexit memes. Even the Gina Miller references which are the only specifics you quote are incorrect in that she didnt slow down brexit, because it happened exactly at the time it was due to happen. Miller challenged the legality of the article 50 trigger, and her challenge was largely upheld but it didnt actually change the outcome of brexit. 4

May had a majority pro brexit cabinet and everyone on her cabinet had publicly committed to brexit. Johnson had a heavily pro brexit cabinet, Truss had a pro brexit cabinet, and Sunak has always claimed to be a brexit supporter.

If four administrations who have been prepared to break parliamentary rules, ignore the high court, lie to parliament, to the Queen and the public in order to not be held accountable for their actions, and exited the EU exactly on the date that article 50 stated would be the date of the exit, and are still to this day blaming the EU for intransience or anti UK bias. Again, with specifics, explain how remainers blocked brexit, or even how remain supporters who havent been in power or anywhere near power managed to make brexit worse than it should have been.



this is an interesting point of view, and at least states something tangible, but EUMP's such as Farage could have used their position in the EUP to change regulations on fishing, and the uk government could have reduced VAT on energy to a penny per billing cycle and still remain within EU regs.

I suppose we could have stopped freedom of movement aswell You know full well there's things we can now do that we couldn't.

As said I'm not really interested in re running the whole debate, it's been many years since it all happened and it means trawling back trough the Internet to check information and I really CBA.

Most people moved on years ago and accepted it and if all MP's pulled together to make the best of it, rather than squabbling and longing for a return, we might actually be able to make it a success.

 

[Costero Poderoso]

I suppose we could have stopped freedom of movement aswell You know full well there's things we can now do that we couldn't.

Name just one thing that we can do now that we couldnt do before brexit, and how do you think it can be made a success?

 

[Sven]

I know I keep repeating myself here but for the very last time you lost it wasn’t a best of 3 vote so you remoaners need to accept a democratic vote and simply accept the outcome and get on with life.

FFS the Jocks with be after another vote next and they’ve never stopped moaning either.

Not stopping your mates coming across the channel is it, we used to be able to send them back to France.

We really need you to stop complaining about it, just accept they’re coming and just get over it, we’re all fed up of your moaning

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Not stopping your mates coming across the channel is it, we used to be able to send them back to France.

We really need you to stop complaining about it, just accept they’re coming and just get over it, we’re all fed up of your moaning

We’ve never sent anyone back yet pre or post Brexit.

We are trying try now but all the woke Johnny do-gooders moan like hell saying its inhumane as they are all fleeing wars starvation and persecution really?

Ever wondered why then Its only the young men 18-24 year olds because that’s all that come ever ever thought where their families are?

 

[JJpool]

Name just one thing that we can do now that we couldnt do before brexit, and how do you think it can be made a success?

Have a few.

We can make trade deals with other countries that we couldn't as a member of the EU, because they can't all agree, too many different interests.

The freedom to regulate appropriately for issues that concern only us.

We can control immigration, sensible levels can lead to more harmony, less strain on services, houses etc. The fact the current government may or may not fail at it doesn't mean the concept of being able to do it is wrong. It's also a much fairer system, than an open door to Europeans whilst others have to jump through hoops.

Wages can rise without a limitless supply of cheap labour to keep them compressed.

Maybe read this for some more.

The benefits of Brexit

How the UK is capitalising on the benefits of Brexit.

www.gov.uk

 

[Tangerinemoss]

We’ve never sent anyone back yet pre or post Brexit.

Factually incorrect

 

[Tangerinemoss]

"Ever wondered why then Its only the young men 18-24 year olds because that’s all that come ever ever thought where their families are? "

Factually incorrect. Proof, that lowlife minister ordering painting over the Disney murals and the missing children

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Factually incorrect

We had the right to return them I accept that pre Brexit but pretty sure we returned no one.
I stand to be corrected of course and await concrete evidence otherwise.

 

[look.its.luke]

Have a few.

We can make trade deals with other countries that we couldn't as a member of the EU, because they can't all agree, too many different interests.

The freedom to regulate appropriately for issues that concern only us.

We can control immigration, sensible levels can lead to more harmony, less strain on services, houses etc. The fact the current government may or may not fail at it doesn't mean the concept of being able to do it is wrong. It's also a much fairer system, than an open door to Europeans whilst others have to jump through hoops.

Wages can rise without a limitless supply of cheap labour to keep them compressed.

Maybe read this for some more.

The benefits of Brexit

How the UK is capitalising on the benefits of Brexit.

www.gov.uk

I've missed all those important trade deals we've done since Brexit, weren't the US going to be first in the queue?

Fewer labour shortages in the economy, immigration and asylum system is working better?
Public services like the NHS, Railways, Education doing better?

If you ever want a QED of how thick the far right brigade are, they voted to make it less easy for white 'culturally christian value' immigrants to come here to fill gaps in our health care, construction and agricultural industries...and within 1 generation enhance modern British society, as the Irish and Windrush migrants did before them.

Instead, they've increased the amount of refugees/immigrants who arrive illegally from 3rd world Muslim countries with a clash of cultural values. They're not allowed to work, study and therefore can't assimilate to society or contribute to the economy.

Well done lads

 

[Sven]

We had the right to return them I accept that pre Brexit but pretty sure we returned no one.
I stand to be corrected of course and await concrete evidence otherwise.

Ah, so you're one of those 'idiots with conviction' who will post bollocks like it's fact with no evidence.

Then you expect other people to come with concrete evidence to disprove you, priceless!

 

[Sven]

Have a few.

We can make trade deals with other countries that we couldn't as a member of the EU, because they can't all agree, too many different interests.

The freedom to regulate appropriately for issues that concern only us.

We can control immigration, sensible levels can lead to more harmony, less strain on services, houses etc. The fact the current government may or may not fail at it doesn't mean the concept of being able to do it is wrong. It's also a much fairer system, than an open door to Europeans whilst others have to jump through hoops.

Wages can rise without a limitless supply of cheap labour to keep them compressed.

Maybe read this for some more.

The benefits of Brexit

How the UK is capitalising on the benefits of Brexit.

www.gov.uk

Can we control immigration or can we not control immigration? I see the same people complaining about immigration levels on one thread and saying we can control it when talking about Brexit on another, which is it?

It was never about keeping the Miguels and Pierres of this world out of the UK though was it. We also lost freedom of movement too, not all of us wanted to stay in Blackpool for the rest of our lives.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Ah, so you're one of those 'idiots with conviction' who will post bollocks like it's fact with no evidence.

Then you expect other people to come with concrete evidence to disprove you, priceless!

Hang on a minute you were the one who stated I was factually incorrect.

I’ve asked for evidence to back your comments up and you suddenly go off on one.

So in a nutshell you don’t have such evidence?

Thought not even more priceless.

 

[Wizaard]

Ah, so you're one of those 'idiots with conviction' who will post bollocks like it's fact with no evidence.

Then you expect other people to come with concrete evidence to disprove you, priceless!

Happy to be proved wrong, until proved wrong.

 

[Wizaard]

Hang on a minute you were the one who stated I was factually incorrect.

I’ve asked for evidence to back your comments up and you suddenly go off on one.

So in a nutshell you don’t have such evidence?

Thought not even more priceless.

You were the first to quote a so called fact, namely that no one was deported.

Where is the evidence? That column marked nil. As it happens a cursory glance shows many were deported back to France before Brexit, because we could. It's slowed down post Brexit because now we can't send them as quickly and because there's a delay in processing due to Government cuts.

We sent back 3500 in 2022 up to September last year, with a further 8,000 voluntary departures, mainly to India. That's more than nil.

 

[Sven]

Hang on a minute you were the one who stated I was factually incorrect.

I’ve asked for evidence to back your comments up and you suddenly go off on one.

So in a nutshell you don’t have such evidence?

Thought not even more priceless.

Wrong again, that wasn't me

 

[Shandypants]

Have a few.

We can make trade deals with other countries that we couldn't as a member of the EU, because they can't all agree, too many different interests.

The freedom to regulate appropriately for issues that concern only us.

We can control immigration, sensible levels can lead to more harmony, less strain on services, houses etc. The fact the current government may or may not fail at it doesn't mean the concept of being able to do it is wrong. It's also a much fairer system, than an open door to Europeans whilst others have to jump through hoops.

Wages can rise without a limitless supply of cheap labour to keep them compressed.

Maybe read this for some more.

The benefits of Brexit

How the UK is capitalising on the benefits of Brexit.

www.gov.uk

Trade deals are a complicated affair, the bigger trading blocks have the muscle to get the best deals. The cooperative movement was a smaller but similar version. Club together and you have strength! 500m people or 68m? That said the trade deals don't really add up to huge amounts, its the EU nations that we trade with the most and we royally fooked that up.....

 

[Costero Poderoso]

Have a few.

We can make trade deals with other countries that we couldn't as a member of the EU, because they can't all agree, too many different interests.

The freedom to regulate appropriately for issues that concern only us.

We can control immigration, sensible levels can lead to more harmony, less strain on services, houses etc. The fact the current government may or may not fail at it doesn't mean the concept of being able to do it is wrong. It's also a much fairer system, than an open door to Europeans whilst others have to jump through hoops.

Wages can rise without a limitless supply of cheap labour to keep them compressed.

Maybe read this for some more.

The benefits of Brexit

How the UK is capitalising on the benefits of Brexit.

www.gov.uk

The UK had the capacity to negotiate on trade deals collectively in the same way every other EU country does, there are some limitations but the EU negotiates form a position of economic power as the third biggest economy in the world, and the UK was one of the KEY economies of the EU, and one of the principle drivers of policy. The fact is, the UK has only done a few crappy trade deals since brexit and seemingly largely more beneficial to those countries than the UK, hence its current economic state. the uk is negotiating almost every major trade deal currently form a position of weakness, but then as Davies, and Farage, and Johnson all said we can just walk away from trade deals if we dont like them just like the brexit deal.

The UK like every country in the EU had the ability to regulate and legislate appropriately for the country. Scotland and Northern Ireland both regulate and legislate in numerous areas differently from the England and Wales.

The UK could control immigration even from other EU countries but governments of all shades since the early 90's have chosen to operate a very open and liberal immigration policy. Why do what you call "sensible levels" lead to more harmony? what is a sensible level?

The UK could have controlled immigration and there was no limits on the UK government setting higher wages for the population, rather than officially compressing wages as it has done. how do you explain that the current administration is desparately trying to limit wage rises for most workers and aslo, how do you explain high profile brexit supporting business leaders and a number of brexit supporting Tory MP's promoting "liberation of motion" which of course only goes one way to foreign workers, and is of course a means to keep wages down by bringing in cheap workers who will not recieve the protections that UK workers currently have, which of course the current administration is trying to limit.

The link you sent has been routinely torn apart by fact checkers.

 

[JJpool]

I've missed all those important trade deals we've done since Brexit, weren't the US going to be first in the queue?

Fewer labour shortages in the economy, immigration and asylum system is working better?
Public services like the NHS, Railways, Education doing better?

If you ever want a QED of how thick the far right brigade are, they voted to make it less easy for white 'culturally christian value' immigrants to come here to fill gaps in our health care, construction and agricultural industries...and within 1 generation enhance modern British society, as the Irish and Windrush migrants did before them.

Instead, they've increased the amount of refugees/immigrants who arrive illegally from 3rd world Muslim countries with a clash of cultural values. They're not allowed to work, study and therefore can't assimilate to society or contribute to the economy.

Well done lads

He asked for some benefits, he got given them.

We've signed a few actually, we may have done a US one if we had for out act together.

That's complete nonsense, the government need to clamp down on the illegals but each time a plan comes up the left kick off.

 

[JJpool]

Can we control immigration or can we not control immigration? I see the same people complaining about immigration levels on one thread and saying we can control it when talking about Brexit on another, which is it?

It was never about keeping the Miguels and Pierres of this world out of the UK though was it. We also lost freedom of movement too, not all of us wanted to stay in Blackpool for the rest of our lives.

We can control it, we have all the available powers to do so

Last I checked there's more than Blackpool in the UK, also people are moving abroad

 

[JJpool]

Trade deals are a complicated affair, the bigger trading blocks have the muscle to get the best deals. The cooperative movement was a smaller but similar version. Club together and you have strength! 500m people or 68m? That said the trade deals don't really add up to huge amounts, its the EU nations that we trade with the most and we royally fooked that up.....

They can do yes, they can also be far more inflexible and not suited to an individual countries needs.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

You were the first to quote a so called fact, namely that no one was deported.

Where is the evidence? That column marked nil. As it happens a cursory glance shows many were deported back to France before Brexit, because we could. It's slowed down post Brexit because now we can't send them as quickly and because there's a delay in processing due to Government cuts.

We sent back 3500 in 2022 up to September last year, with a further 8,000 voluntary departures, mainly to India. That's more than nil.

Voluntary.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

We can control it, we have all the available powers to do so

Last I checked there's more than Blackpool in the UK, also people are moving abroad

Of course we can control it it’s just the woke do-gooders of this country are against everything the Government are trying to do.
I’m sure these same people won’t be saying the same things after Starmer gets in after the next general election.
It’ll all be legal by then and there won’t be any wars and persecution.

 

[Wizaard]

Voluntary.

Yes. Some people decide its not a land of sunny uplands as advertised and go home. Its all in GOV.UK.

 

[Wizaard]

We can control it, we have all the available powers to do so

Last I checked there's more than Blackpool in the UK, also people are moving abroad

People can't go to Spain for the winter anymore. Limited to 90 days abroad.