City's punishment

The real reason is that the Top 6 can maintain their cartel and the never ending European gravy train by never allowing anyone else to spend more to catch up.

There is a built in disadvantage to the rest of the League who can't match up to clubs with more or less guaranteed European football plus top 6 bonuses in the League.

If they try to compete they are hammered with points deductions for 'overspending', when they are set a lower bar for spending than the top clubs with greater income streams.
 
mmmm.... this disadvantage, well Brighton and Villa both were in Europe this season. Were these "big six" teams competing in Europe back in the 60's, 70's and 80's and making money from being so? Yep, they were. Were Spurs and Chelsea in Europe this season on this "never ending" gravy train? Will Chelsea be next season?

And surely your opening para goes against everything you think should happen? You say, "never allowing anyone else to spend more". Are you suggesting then that teams should be allowed to spend more because that's what your post suggests. If so then yep i agree. Get rid of this FFP nonsense.
 
FFP should be purely about stopping clubs getting into trouble, particularly those most vulnerable in the.lower leagues. At the top level if an owner wants to spend their money to compete at the very top, so be it, as long as the money isn't funded through criminal activity. The rules should just make sure any irresponsible spending rests with the owner to stop the clubs (and therefore their fans) being saddled with the problem.
 
Notice how they brought the fair play rules in when Real Madrid and Barcelona couldn't compete with City in the transfer market

If Barcelona and Real Madrid were still top dogs in Europe, there would be no fair play rules in place right now

Feck the fair play rules.
 
mmmm.... this disadvantage, well Brighton and Villa both were in Europe this season. Were these "big six" teams competing in Europe back in the 60's, 70's and 80's and making money from being so? Yep, they were. Were Spurs and Chelsea in Europe this season on this "never ending" gravy train? Will Chelsea be next season?

And surely your opening para goes against everything you think should happen? You say, "never allowing anyone else to spend more". Are you suggesting then that teams should be allowed to spend more because that's what your post suggests. If so then yep i agree. Get rid of this FFP nonsense.
There is sometimes an exception but the principle remains.

They get more income than the rest of the League from UEFA. That builds in an advantage over the rest which others can't compete with apart from overspending.
 
There is sometimes an exception but the principle remains.

They get more income than the rest of the League from UEFA. That builds in an advantage over the rest which others can't compete with apart from overspending.
No such thing as over spending

Man Utd and Chelsea have spent more on players than Man City yet aren't in trouble with the rules yet ...........
 
There is sometimes an exception but the principle remains.

They get more income than the rest of the League from UEFA. That builds in an advantage over the rest which others can't compete with apart from overspending.
but your opening para contradicted the rest of your post. And why shouldn't they get more from UEFA than the rest if they win it's premier competition?
 
No such thing as over spending

Man Utd and Chelsea have spent more on players than Man City yet aren't in trouble with the rules yet ...........

The key word there is "yet". :)

I'm not sure the business model at United bears very close examination. Buying a club using loans that use the club's own assets as collateral is not really a good look, is it? All the Glazers have delivered at that club is a mountain of debt, and huge shareholder dividends for an exclusive few.
 
The key word there is "yet". :)

I'm not sure the business model at United bears very close examination. Buying a club using loans that use the club's own assets as collateral is not really a good look, is it? All the Glazers have delivered at that club is a mountain of debt, and huge shareholder dividends for an exclusive few.
Yet that appears to be fine

Like I've been saying the rules are a farce, better off just letting clubs do want they want like it used to be
 
The real reason is that the Top 6 can maintain their cartel and the never ending European gravy train by never allowing anyone else to spend more to catch up.

There is a built in disadvantage to the rest of the League who can't match up to clubs with more or less guaranteed European football plus top 6 bonuses in the League.

If they try to compete they are hammered with points deductions for 'overspending', when they are set a lower bar for spending than the top clubs with greater income streams.
Spoken like a true City fan
 
No such thing as over spending

Man Utd and Chelsea have spent more on players than Man City yet aren't in trouble with the rules yet ...........
Perhaps they haven't broken the rules?
Before you comment any further, why don't you read up what City have actually been charged with.
They haven't been charged with spending money. They've been charged with the way they acquired that money.
False sponsorship etc etc
 
Perhaps they haven't broken the rules?
Before you comment any further, why don't you read up what City have actually been charged with.
They haven't been charged with spending money. They've been charged with the way they acquired that money.
False sponsorship etc etc
but doesn't that false sponsorship mean that money is coming in to the club which is then being spent. Whereas it may be a complex situation does it still not come down to money coming in against money going out?.
 
The EPL, need to explain, the rules, & explain, why the City scenario is being dealt with in this apparently very slow way. When Everton & Florist seems to be so quick

A financial punishment (if found guilty) is pointless to the Arabs.

Maybe if City have cheated, & say, they used unfair money to buy David Silva, Tevez et al, (& a couple of referees) we wouldn't have been relegated... (quite a few teams there)

There is no fair way to punish these indiscretions, if true, however maybe we should look to how cheating would be dealt with in the owners countries?

Stoning, chop off hands, execution??
 
Perhaps they haven't broken the rules?
Before you comment any further, why don't you read up what City have actually been charged with.
They haven't been charged with spending money. They've been charged with the way they acquired that money.
False sponsorship etc etc
I think you have missed the point
 
but doesn't that false sponsorship mean that money is coming in to the club which is then being spent. Whereas it may be a complex situation does it still not come down to money coming in against money going out?.
I wish people would just read up and understand what they're being charged with.
They're not being charged with spending money. It's not quite as simple as money coming in and money going out.
It's the way the money coming in has been acquired. Allegedly against the rules.
It's also about employees pay being declared and then a top up from 'other sources' not being declared.
Has anyone noticed since they got wind that they'd been caught, the big money signings have dropped off considerably? Gone are the days when they spent 200 million on full backs in a short period of time.
 
I wish people would just read up and understand what they're being charged with.
They're not being charged with spending money. It's not quite as simple as money coming in and money going out.
It's the way the money coming in has been acquired. Allegedly against the rules.
It's also about employees pay being declared and then a top up from 'other sources' not being declared.
Has anyone noticed since they got wind that they'd been caught, the big money signings have dropped off considerably? Gone are the days when they spent 200 million on full backs in a short period of time.
but you're just confirming what i said which was that it is a complex issue but nevertheless it's all about money coming in and money going out. They may well have broken/bent the rules but it's still all about money and financial restrictions being placed on CLUBS.
 
Guilty of breaking nonsense rules that were only put in place to keep the status quo of the top 4 clubs

The issues started 20 years ago when Chelsea where allowed to break into the top 4 now the EPL are trying to control competition

How are clubs supposed to compete when they are told what they can and can't spend

The owner of Nottingham Forest is rich enough to afford any debt he's created at Forest, he's guilty of trying to compete in the EPL nothing more

Football isn't broken you know, no matter what a few beardo weirdo's think (BFC BFC BFC copywrite)
Football was broken when they got rid of the maximum wage.
 
Yep some proper hypocrites on this thread

If Sadler decided to really bank role us and get back to back promotions by out spending our rivals would people really complain?

Its also worth noting that some of the loudest on this thread don't even watch even watch top level football
They may not watch top level football because of the one sided games that City and two or three other teams play in. I don't watch it often because the games are one sided ,so why would you.
 
I don't get it either.

Portsmouth and Bolton bring more money than us because we get 10k and them 20k for home games and if Sadler wants to level that up with his own money so be it.

Same in the PL where you've the farcical situation of the Newcastle owners who want to spend like Man Utd but can't and may have to sell to bring in more talent.

What's the point in having rich owners?
Some are much ,much richer then others and if financial restraints were not brought in then some teams would just have the second best players in the world as substitutes . At least with financial rules the league are trying to keep the playing fields a bit more level. Football at top level is bad enough ,but it could be a lot worse if these rules were not there . Anyone wanting rid of these rules would basically be destroying football.
 
So you are one of the people that pay for sky or a fire stick and watch 4 or 5 goals put past Sheff United or watch Luton try and hang on for a 1 goal win or a draw. It figures hahahahaha.

But WOT, that can still happen in any league.

I watch football at non-league level to Premier League: there are mismatched games at all levels. Always have been...
 
So you are one of the people that pay for sky or a fire stick and watch 4 or 5 goals put past Sheff United or watch Luton try and hang on for a 1 goal win or a draw. It figures hahahahaha.
suggest you have a look at some of the results in the Championship, L1 and L2
 
Yet that appears to be fine

Like I've been saying the rules are a farce, better off just letting clubs do want they want like it used to be
With your way of thinking ,you may find that City could win the league every year and europe too. You have to have some kind of cap ,just to make football competitive.
 
Some are much ,much richer then others and if financial restraints were not brought in then some teams would just have the second best players in the world as substitutes . At least with financial rules the league are trying to keep the playing fields a bit more level. Football at top level is bad enough ,but it could be a lot worse if these rules were not there . Anyone wanting rid of these rules would basically be destroying football.
more idiotic nonsense. Do you ever think things through before posting? Suggest you give it a try.
 
suggest you have a look at some of the results in the Championship, L1 and L2
No team dominates these divisions because of promotion . Also have a look at the preseason betting when City are 6/4 to win the prem ,yet the favourites to win Div 1 and 2 are usually between 3/1 to 6/1
 
I think WoT makes an interesting point about the end of the maximum wage. I wouldn't say that was the breaking point ; but it was the thin end of a considerable wedge in that it hastened the demise of the hitherto successful town clubs like Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley, Huddersfield and Preston, to name but a few..

I think the creation of the EPL in1992 was when the real sea change started. And the commercial success it has had (which is considerable) has come at quite a price for the fans of smaller clubs who want to see their team competing at the right end of the pyramid. You only have to look at our 22/23 accounts to see that Mr. Sadler is, in financial terms, trying to compete with one hand tied behind his back ; and paying around £60k a week for the privilege. His "reward" is endless lectures about showing ambition from people who spend every summer bitching about the price of a season ticket.

The same people will tell you that football is fine, and doesn't need all its shit rules, which is a very odd way of thinking. If the rules are really all that shit - then you change them, not do away with them altogether.

Which brings us onto the Regulator. I have high hopes for it, but even I am a realist about what it can achieve quickly. Our game has far too many owners at the top of the game who want to rig the system to protect what they have ; and they include increasing numbers of Americans who think the sport in the UK is undervalued as a product, rather than a charming, quirky and culturally significant part of our way of life. I'd like to see less of them, and rather more of the kind of owner who understands the concept of custodianship and views effective regulation as a reason to be in the industry, not one to be fought against in the way that much of the EPL does now.
 
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But WOT, that can still happen in any league.

I watch football at non-league level to Premier League: there are mismatched games at all levels. Always have been...
And that's why teams are promoted and relegated . This keeps lower league football usually pretty level. Wrexham walk the non league ,but they are not in it the next season . The Prem is different because the top teams have nowhere to go.
 
I think WoT makes an interesting point about the end of the maximum wage. I wouldn't say that was the breaking point ; but it was the thin end of a considerable wedge in that it hastened the demise of the hitherto successful town clubs like Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley, Huddersfield and Preston, to name but a few..

I think the creation of the EPL in1992 was when the real sea change started. And the commercial success it has had (which is considerable) has come at quite a price for the fans of smaller clubs who want to see their team competing at the right end of the pyramid. You only have to look at our 22/23 accounts to see that Mr. Sadler is, in financial terms, trying to compete with one hand tied behind his back ; and paying around £60k a week for the privilege. His "reward" is endless lectures about showing ambition from people who spend every summer bitching about the price of a season ticket.

The same people will tell you that football is fine, and doesn't need all its shit rules, which is a very odd way of thinking. If the rules are really all that shit - then you change them, not do away with them altogether.

Which brings us onto the Regulator. I have high hopes for it, but even I am a realist about what it can achieve quickly. Our game has far too many owners at the top of the game who want to rig the system to protect what they have ; and they include increasing numbers of Americans who think the sport in the UK is undervalued as a product, rather than a charming, quirky and culturally significant part of our way of life. I'd like to see less of them, and rather more on the kind of owner who understands the concept of custodianship and views effective regulation as a reason to be in the industry, not one to be fought against in the way that much of the EPL does now.
I think you'll find pretty much all of WOT's posts are regarding the competitiveness of the EPL. He sees to suggest that the EPL is less competitive than other divisions which is nonsense. We are having the same discussion that we've had many times before. That is that even before the advent of the EPL there were periods of time where certain clubs dominated the top league. And it's just the same throughout the rest of Europe too. i agree that there has to be a certain amount of regulation but only because i think new owners shouldn't be allowed to buy clubs and put them in hock to the banks as like you have said earlier the Glazers have done. All debt should be on the owners and the regulator should be able to enforce that by "fit and proper"" checks.
 
And that's why teams are promoted and relegated . This keeps lower league football usually pretty level. Wrexham walk the non league ,but they are not in it the next season . The Prem is different because the top teams have nowhere to go.
just more and more utter nonsense. Where do you want the top teams to go? Where have the top teams ever gone since the creation of the league back in the 1800's?
 
I agree with a lot of that (post #88) 20s. The discussion about regulation has been hijacked from minute one by the likes of Phil who seem to think it is just about spending - which it certainly isn't.

The bit I don't agree with is your view on how competitive the EPL is. In my view it isn't, and there are a small wedge of clubs at the top who either want to squeeze even more out of the system for themselves, or who advocate the status quo to maintain the in-built advantages they already have. And even one or two of them are managing to mismanage their way out of the money places in the league table.
 
I think WoT makes an interesting point about the end of the maximum wage. I wouldn't say that was the breaking point ; but it was the thin end of a considerable wedge in that it hastened the demise of the hitherto successful town clubs like Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley, Huddersfield and Preston, to name but a few..

I think the creation of the EPL in1992 was when the real sea change started. And the commercial success it has had (which is considerable) has come at quite a price for the fans of smaller clubs who want to see their team competing at the right end of the pyramid. You only have to look at our 22/23 accounts to see that Mr. Sadler is, in financial terms, trying to compete with one hand tied behind his back ; and paying around £60k a week for the privilege. His "reward" is endless lectures about showing ambition from people who spend every summer bitching about the price of a season ticket.

The same people will tell you that football is fine, and doesn't need all its shit rules, which is a very odd way of thinking. If the rules are really all that shit - then you change them, not do away with them altogether.

Which brings us onto the Regulator. I have high hopes for it, but even I am a realist about what it can achieve quickly. Our game has far too many owners at the top of the game who want to rig the system to protect what they have ; and they include increasing numbers of Americans who think the sport in the UK is undervalued as a product, rather than a charming, quirky and culturally significant part of our way of life. I'd like to see less of them, and rather more of the kind of owner who understands the concept of custodianship and views effective regulation as a reason to be in the industry, not one to be fought against in the way that much of the EPL does now.

Yep, agree with every word of that.

But finding "the kind of owner who understands the concept of custodianship and views effective regulation as a reason to be in the industry, not one to be fought against..." is like trying to find a dog that can speak Norwegian.

Sport (and football in particular) is an area of life where rationality and good sense is generally temporarily suspended, and base instincts are often given more free rein than normal. Cheating is pretty much accepted by supporters and the media alike as part of the game.

It is only normal then that the same "cheating" will go on at board level if it enhances the chance of success. The men who generally get to own football clubs, almost by definition, will be the type who will seek to maximise all advantages in their favour. It is capitalism, red in tooth and claw.

A gentler machine gun hand (at EPL level certainly) is probably all we can hope for. Unfortunately...
 
I agree with a lot of that (post #88) 20s. The discussion about regulation has been hijacked from minute one by the likes of Phil who seem to think it is just about spending - which it certainly isn't.

The bit I don't agree with is your view on how competitive the EPL is. In my view it isn't, and there are a small wedge of clubs at the top who either want to squeeze even more out of the system for themselves, or who advocate the status quo to maintain the in-built advantages they already have. And even one or two of them are managing to mismanage their way out of the money places in the league table.
like i said before with regards to your second para, we've had this discussion on the competitiveness many times before. We simply don't agree. I'd suggest that the evidence both here and in Europe stacks up in my favour.
 
I think WoT makes an interesting point about the end of the maximum wage. I wouldn't say that was the breaking point ; but it was the thin end of a considerable wedge in that it hastened the demise of the hitherto successful town clubs like Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley, Huddersfield and Preston, to name but a few..

I think the creation of the EPL in1992 was when the real sea change started. And the commercial success it has had (which is considerable) has come at quite a price for the fans of smaller clubs who want to see their team competing at the right end of the pyramid. You only have to look at our 22/23 accounts to see that Mr. Sadler is, in financial terms, trying to compete with one hand tied behind his back ; and paying around £60k a week for the privilege. His "reward" is endless lectures about showing ambition from people who spend every summer bitching about the price of a season ticket.

The same people will tell you that football is fine, and doesn't need all its shit rules, which is a very odd way of thinking. If the rules are really all that shit - then you change them, not do away with them altogether.

Which brings us onto the Regulator. I have high hopes for it, but even I am a realist about what it can achieve quickly. Our game has far too many owners at the top of the game who want to rig the system to protect what they have ; and they include increasing numbers of Americans who think the sport in the UK is undervalued as a product, rather than a charming, quirky and culturally significant part of our way of life. I'd like to see less of them, and rather more of the kind of owner who understands the concept of custodianship and views effective regulation as a reason to be in the industry, not one to be fought against in the way that much of the EPL does now.
Its got fuck all to do with the Maximum wage, that was in the 1960s, are you honestly saying football since has been ruined because of that, look at the success the British clubs had in Europe during the 1980s when we ruled the top European competitions

Your second para is equally a load of nonsense when you mention the so called smaller clubs as several have actually played and benefited from the SKY money, Blackpool included. The 60k Sadler is paying for the so sarcastic privilege is his choice, you don't buy a 3rd tier football club and expect to not have to fund it. As for the bitching about season ticket prices as I've stated several times it's not about me and about getting more fans into the games to build our fanbase

Football is fine, we have a great bunch of young English talent who play at the very top level, we also have a strong league pyramid system that is the envy of the World with more professional clubs than any other nation. My point on the rules are simple enough to understand in that i don't understand why a few anoraks want to change things and i don't get why clubs can't spend money to try and compete in what's a results based industry

Then the regulator, you have high hopes as you see football in a completely different way to me, I think it's a complete waste of time and effort and could potentially do more hard than good, You hate the money in football that's clear to see and you would prefer if more clubs were run like the way second hand racking salesman Andy Holt runs Accy

As soon as i found out you were involved in the FSA and helped with some of their letters regarding governance was the moment i realised what a waste of time they are

I mean you couldn't even stand side by side with fellow protesting Blackpool fans in the the early days of the boycotts yet now you are on some moral crusade to change football
 
With your way of thinking ,you may find that City could win the league every year and europe too. You have to have some kind of cap ,just to make football competitive.
A cap would make football less competitive as the status quo would never change

Luton wouldn't be in the Premier league if the rules get put in place regarding turnover/percentage spend and we would have never been in the Premier League either

Leicester wouldn't have won the league and clubs like Bournemouth wouldn't be able to sign some of the best players from the EPL for large fees that go back into the system

You don't make any sense at all with what you spout
 
A cap would make football less competitive as the status quo would never change

Luton wouldn't be in the Premier league if the rules get put in place regarding turnover/percentage spend and we would have never been in the Premier League either

Leicester wouldn't have won the league and clubs like Bournemouth wouldn't be able to sign some of the best players from the EPL for large fees that go back into the system

You don't make any sense at all with what you spout
A cap was in years ago when we won the F.A. cup . Teams like Ipswich ,Wolves , West Brom and Nottingham Forest were winning Trophies , You and your puppet togo have been talking to each other too much . You both don't make sense .
 
A cap was in years ago when we won the F.A. cup . Teams like Ipswich ,Wolves , West Brom and Nottingham Forest were winning Trophies , You and your puppet togo have been talking to each other too much . You both don't make sense .
clueless nonsense. Seems you want to bring back slavery and impose restrictions on what players can earn! You really belong back in the dark ages with your posts. Football has changed from when we won the Cup 70 years ago, The whole world has changed. You've got some romantic notion of how life was back then. No doubt you'd prefer to live in times back then when you had an outside toilet and your mum and dad had to get the tin bath out to give you a bath.

Football clearly isn't for you any more as you've lost all track of reality about it. Have to say, in all the time i've been posting on here don't think I've ever come across some-one as thick as you!
 
clueless nonsense. You really belong back in the dark ages with your posts. Football has changed from when we won the Cup 70 years ago, The whole world has changed. You've got some romantic notion of how life was back then. No doubt you'd prefer to live in times back then when you had an outside toilet and your mum and dad had to get the tin bath out to give you a bath.

Football clearly isn't for you any more as you've lost all track of reality about it.
I know we will never get the good old days back and I know also that taking away the financial rules would make football more one sided . The thing I don't understand is how people can be satisfied with games you pretty much know the winners are before it is played . I feel its the simple people that are happy with this or you support the team that is winning all the trophies I am sure they would be happy.
 
I know we will never get the good old days back and I know also that taking away the financial rules would make football more one sided . The thing I don't understand is how people can be satisfied with games you pretty much know the winners are before it is played . I feel its the simple people that are happy with this or you support the team that is winning all the trophies I am sure they would be happy.
drivel, drivel and even more drivel. You are living on a different planet. If you think games in the EPL are so one sided let's see you predict the score of every game in the EPL this weekend? If it were the case, then all bookmakers would be broke and all punters rich. Shut up with your nonsense.
 
drivel, drivel and even more drivel. You are living on a different planet. If you think games in the EPL are so one sided let's see you predict the score of every game in the EPL this weekend? If it were the case, then all bookmakers would be broke and all punters rich. Shut up with your nonsense.
I wrote pretty much know the winners ,so how does that mean knowing the exact score . Also the bookies will never be skint when they quote prices like 1/12 on city winning a game . You seem to be struggling reading or making sense of what is written . If you are going to argue about something make sure you understand what you are arguing about.
 
I wrote pretty much know the winners ,so how does that mean knowing the exact score . Also the bookies will never be skint when they quote prices like 1/12 on city winning a game . You seem to be struggling reading or making sense of what is written . If you are going to argue about something make sure you understand what you are arguing about.
I never said the word "exact" did I? Also go and have a look at the 80's when Liverpool were winning pretty much everything. Very easily predictable eh?
 
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