Derbyshire Police at it again

BigHandsOliverKahn said:
In China, one person from a household, was allowed out once every 2 weeks, just for food. That's a lockdown.

Police said "Driving to a location - where exercise could easily have been taken closer to a person's home - is clearly not in the spirit of the national effort to reduce our travel,"
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What''s China got to do with it?

Like I said, they didn't break any rule.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
In China, one person from a household, was allowed out once every 2 weeks, just for food. That's a lockdown.

Police said "Driving to a location - where exercise could easily have been taken closer to a person's home - is clearly not in the spirit of the national effort to reduce our travel."

What if they had a crash on the way there? We are in a national emergency where hospital beds are about to disappear. Need to get tough now or the next month death figures will be grim.
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What if someone gets run over or breaks an ankle walking from their house?
 
GJJW said:
Fair points. Still think the guidelines are ambiguous mind.
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Yep... Though that is intentional, not by accident..... The Government is choosing to rely on guidamce rather than enforcement.
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
In China, one person from a household, was allowed out once every 2 weeks, just for food. That's a lockdown.

Police said "Driving to a location - where exercise could easily have been taken closer to a person's home - is clearly not in the spirit of the national effort to reduce our travel,"
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1. We don't live in China (Thank God)...

2. The Law is the Law and it isn't for the Police to make interpretations based on something as flimsy as "Spirit of the National Effort", which is utterly irrelevant.
 
This thing about ‘not in the spirit of’ is absolute nonsense. This happened in the 1st lockdown and the police were found to be wrong. Travelling in your own car to walk outside for exercise (where the chances of catching it are minimal to non-existant). All jumped on because a small minority really do take the piśš and end up sensationalised in the press. Would have been much easier to define a distance eg 5 miles, 10 miles, etc or stay within own county borders.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
But that's not the point. If the police don't want people going to Starbucks then shut it down.
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Depends what you think the point of the lockdown is. If you see it as something that restricts your freedom, then you will rebel against it and moan about how it is implemented. If you think it is to try to stop a national crisis and save thousands of lives that are about to be lost in the next few weeks, then you will try to support it.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Depends what you think the point of the lockdown is. If you see it as something that restricts your freedom, then you will rebel against it and moan about how it is implemented. If you think it is to try to stop a national crisis and save thousands of lives that are about to be lost in the next few weeks, then you will try to support it.
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It's not ** rebelling, it's exercising locally! Did you drive to a shop this week?
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Depends what you think the point of the lockdown is. If you see it as something that restricts your freedom, then you will rebel against it and moan about how it is implemented. If you think it is to try to stop a national crisis and save thousands of lives that are about to be lost in the next few weeks, then you will try to support it.
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Support what?

Support the concept of minimising transmission?

Support the Police to just make stuff up?

Support idiotic schemes like "Eat out to Help Out" ?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Support what?

Support the concept of minimising transmission?

Support the Police to just make stuff up?

Support idiotic schemes like "Eat out to Help Out" ?
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Take a look at the rules - https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

It has a big black banner at the top with the words "STAY HOME"
The next line down says "National lockdown: stay at home"
Just below that is the line "Do not leave your home unless necessary."
The white section below that starts with "National lockdown rules apply in England. Stay at home."

Visiting Starbucks for a brew and a drive out doesn't quite fit with that. As long as people keep thinking about themselves and don't give a sod about killing others with this virus, then don't be surprised at the carnage that is about to hit.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
In China, one person from a household, was allowed out once every 2 weeks, just for food. That's a lockdown.

Police said "Driving to a location - where exercise could easily have been taken closer to a person's home - is clearly not in the spirit of the national effort to reduce our travel."

What if they had a crash on the way there? We are in a national emergency where hospital beds are about to disappear. Need to get tough now or the next month death figures will be grim.
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Maybe we need more hospital beds?
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Take a look at the rules - https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

It has a big black banner at the top with the words "STAY HOME"
The next line down says "National lockdown: stay at home"
Just below that is the line "Do not leave your home unless necessary."
The white section below that starts with "National lockdown rules apply in England. Stay at home."

Visiting Starbucks for a brew and a drive out doesn't quite fit with that. As long as people keep thinking about themselves and don't give a sod about killing others with this virus, then don't be surprised at the carnage that is about to hit.
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Driving in your own car and walking at distance from a friend presents no risk whatsoever. Any scientist who tried to claim otherwise would be laughed out of the Nerd Society quicker than you can say 'Sheldon's Top Ten Zingers'. Going to Starbucks on the other hand...
 
The problem is that far too many have taken 'reasonable' and pushed it beyond any sort of limits. Plenty of reports of places being overrun, idiots protesting on marches and in the run up to Christmas the shops being swamped.

I get that innocent and genuinely reasonable people have been caught up in this,but as a nation our moronic,selfish element have let the side down.
Led of course by some completely hypocritical and dimwitted MPs etc and I hope they stick that Scottish MP in the nick for a while too.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Take a look at the rules - https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

It has a big black banner at the top with the words "STAY HOME"
The next line down says "National lockdown: stay at home"
Just below that is the line "Do not leave your home unless necessary."
The white section below that starts with "National lockdown rules apply in England. Stay at home."

Visiting Starbucks for a brew and a drive out doesn't quite fit with that. As long as people keep thinking about themselves and don't give a sod about killing others with this virus, then don't be surprised at the carnage that is about to hit.
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You have linked the Government guidelines....

The Law / Regulations can be found here

Coronavirus Legislation

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

'Necessary' is subject to definition as is 'reasonable excuse' and the help us by defining these things where required in the Law.

I personally wouldn't choose to go to a Starbucks, but if the shop is allowed to be open, then the implication is that people are free to use it.

The key issue under discussion, however is not Starbucks coffee, but exercise..... There is no signifcant risk of transmission that results from either taking outdoor exercise or travelling in a car alone or with your bubble in order to take exercise. In fact this is probably one of the safest activities that you could get involved in during the lockdown process...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You have linked the Government guidelines....

The Law / Regulations can be found here

Coronavirus Legislation

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

'Necessary' is subject to definition as is 'reasonable excuse' and the help us by defining these things where required in the Law.

I personally wouldn't choose to go to a Starbucks, but if the shop is allowed to be open, then the implication is that people are free to use it.

The key issue under discussion, however is not Starbucks coffee, but exercise..... There is no signifcant risk of transmission that results from either taking outdoor exercise or travelling in a car alone or with your bubble in order to take exercise. In fact this is probably one of the safest activities that you could get involved in during the lockdown process...
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That link was last updated before Christmas. It also points people back to the link I supplied for guidance. I like the line:

"The law is what you must do; the guidance might be a mixture of what you must do and what you should do."

I think the problem is, people aren't doing what they must do never mind what they should do. I suppose it's ok as long as you don't crash the car, knock someone over or have the Starbucks cashier sneeze at you.
 
It was just the police being dicks. They could have gone 2 hours later and spoken to a different policeman, had a friendly chat and sent on their way with no fine.

There is no way they will have to pay the fines and nor should they.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
That link was last updated before Christmas. It also points people back to the link I supplied for guidance. I like the line:

"The law is what you must do; the guidance might be a mixture of what you must do and what you should do."

I think the problem is, people aren't doing what they must do never mind what they should do. I suppose it's ok as long as you don't crash the car, knock someone over or have the Starbucks cashier sneeze at you.
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All of the most recent updates to the Law can be found from that link...

Essentially however (from a legal perspective) the entire UK has been placed in Tier 4 restrictions, subject to the amendments found

HERE

As for the Guidance....

It is a mixture of what you must do (where the guidance is in common with the Law) and what the Government has advised you to do (where the guidance is advisory). What you 'Should Do' is the subject of debate.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You have linked the Government guidelines....

The Law / Regulations can be found here

Coronavirus Legislation

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

'Necessary' is subject to definition as is 'reasonable excuse' and the help us by defining these things where required in the Law.

I personally wouldn't choose to go to a Starbucks, but if the shop is allowed to be open, then the implication is that people are free to use it.

The key issue under discussion, however is not Starbucks coffee, but exercise..... There is no signifcant risk of transmission that results from either taking outdoor exercise or travelling in a car alone or with your bubble in order to take exercise. In fact this is probably one of the safest activities that you could get involved in during the lockdown process...
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There's a drive through one at Kirkham apparently, I done research, so they might not have even been in a shop.
 
It is very commendable all you people defending those 2 women when you are only getting one side of the story.
How on earth does anyone know exactly what happened?
It’s like when someone gets caught for speeding, instead of accepting the fact that they (and only they) have cocked up, the blame, as usual is levelled at the police.
As for Straighters remark, I’ll treat that with the contempt it deserves.
 
Eternaloptimist said:
It is very commendable all you people defending those 2 women when you are only getting one side of the story.
How on earth does anyone know exactly what happened?
It’s like when someone gets caught for speeding, instead of accepting the fact that they (and only they) have cocked up, the blame, as usual is levelled at the police.
As for Straighters remark, I’ll treat that with the contempt it deserves.
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They haven't cocked up though.

I think you need a 'whoosh' for Straighter's post.
 
Eternaloptimist said:
It is very commendable all you people defending those 2 women when you are only getting one side of the story.
How on earth does anyone know exactly what happened?
It’s like when someone gets caught for speeding, instead of accepting the fact that they (and only they) have cocked up, the blame, as usual is levelled at the police.
As for Straighters remark, I’ll treat that with the contempt it deserves.
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Go on explain??? Are you saying they maybe got a bit lippy and needed a bit of Police determined justice?
 
I'm with Eternal

All coppers are dicks when they are stopping you doing what you want to like speeding, rioting (protesting NIMBY's) or kicking off in a kebab shop at 2.00am

But we seem to love them when they are stopping some oik from stealing your ornamental ducks from your front garden or some gypsy from charging your 89 year old granny £3,000 to clean her drain.......

And Eternal is right....we don't know what was said......but don't let that get in front of your belief that coppers will issue a charge just for the hell of it without any reason.......
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
I'm with Eternal

All coppers are dicks when they are stopping you doing what you want to like speeding, rioting (protesting NIMBY's) or kicking off in a kebab shop at 2.00am

But we seem to love them when they are stopping some oik from stealing your ornamental ducks from your front garden or some gypsy from charging your 89 year old granny £3,000 to clean her drain.......

And Eternal is right....we don't know what was said......but don't let that get in front of your belief that coppers will issue a charge just for the hell of it without any reason.......
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They're largely just dicks TBH... They're pretty much useless at detecting or dealing with actual crime, so there's pretty much no point reporting it unless you're after a crime number for your insurance.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Go on explain??? Are you saying they maybe got a bit lippy and needed a bit of Police determined justice?
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BFC x3
I am not saying that at all.
I am saying that a lot of people hear one side of a story and take it as fact.
But you must know a hell of a lot of police to say that they are largely dicks. I assume that is from personal experience or anecdotes from people who have broken the law and blamed the police.
Wiz and Straighters, thank you for your observations (although way off the mark)
 
Eternaloptimist said:
BFC x3
I am not saying that at all.
I am saying that a lot of people hear one side of a story and take it as fact.
But you must know a hell of a lot of police to say that they are largely dicks. I assume that is from personal experience or anecdotes from people who have broken the law and blamed the police.
Wiz and Straighters, thank you for your observations (although way off the mark)
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The story seems pretty clear cut and the Police have had an opportunity to comment and the best they could come up with is "Individual Officers will make a personal judgement" and some crap about the "Spirit of Lockdown".... Their job is to uphold the Law, not to make the Law up as they go along.

The majority of the 'anectdotes' that have led me to that conclusion have come from inside the Police Force itself..From a mate. In addition, I've had enough personal experience seeing the Police in action, to understand that dickishness is absolutely endemic within the force....

It's unfortunate, but it is hardly to be unexpected as we really aren't recruiting our Police Officers based on intellect and good judgement. So the rest of us, just have to piut up with their lack of ability and professionalism and make allowances.... Keep your mouth shut, otherwise you'll become a target.... Don't get clever or you'll make their inferiority complex kick in and they'll be forced to make an example of you by trumping up some bullshit....

Certainly the last person I would consider ringing if I needed help would be a copper.... They'll arrive late for starters, likely make the situation worse than it already was and certainly won't be able to offer anything that you couldn't achieve by relying on yourself.

Above all though and this is my biggest issue with the Police.... They are liars... every single one of them... They lie frequently and they manufacture evidence regularly.
 
Surely driving five miles to walk in an isolated spot is safer than local people all piling down to the Prom for a walk?
 
Well I was very pleased to see them 2 weeks ago to deal with the traffic and keep us safe whilst we were trying to save someone's life

Every profession has dicks, and every profession mostly has people trying to do their jobs.

Unless they are policing a football crowd
 
These women deserve all they get. You DO NOT drive 5 miles to go for a walk, just another reason this virus is hard to beat.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Well I was very pleased to see them 2 weeks ago to deal with the traffic and keep us safe whilst we were trying to save someone's life

Every profession has dicks, and every profession mostly has people trying to do their jobs.

Unless they are policing a football crowd
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It's a fair point Moss.... They do have some uses and directing the traffic is definitely one area where they come into their own. 👍

Unfortunately with the Police, even the good ones get caught up and are complicit in the lies .when good men do nothing' etc...

The key for me is to largely avoid them and if you do have to deal with them just pander to their ego's.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The story seems pretty clear cut and the Police have had an opportunity to comment and the best they could come up with is "Individual Officers will make a personal judgement" and some crap about the "Spirit of Lockdown".... Their job is to uphold the Law, not to make the Law up as they go along.

The majority of the 'anectdotes' that have led me to that conclusion have come from inside the Police Force itself..From a mate. In addition, I've had enough personal experience seeing the Police in action, to understand that dickishness is absolutely endemic within the force....

It's unfortunate, but it is hardly to be unexpected as we really aren't recruiting our Police Officers based on intellect and good judgement. So the rest of us, just have to piut up with their lack of ability and professionalism and make allowances.... Keep your mouth shut, otherwise you'll become a target.... Don't get clever or you'll make their inferiority complex kick in and they'll be forced to make an example of you by trumping up some bullshit....

Certainly the last person I would consider ringing if I needed help would be a copper.... They'll arrive late for starters, likely make the situation worse than it already was and certainly won't be able to offer anything that you couldn't achieve by relying on yourself.

Above all though and this is my biggest issue with the Police.... They are liars... every single one of them... They lie frequently and they manufacture evidence regularly.
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I actually agree with your paragraph.
Recruitment nowadays seems solely based on quantity and not quality. And the vetting system also leaves a lot to be desired.
Cannot agree with your last paragraph though.
You will have no idea what the police have to put up with on a daily basis.
And I am not advocating that that is an excuse for lying. There are prats in the police service, equally there are prats in every walk of life.
 
Eternaloptimist said:
I actually agree with your paragraph.
Recruitment nowadays seems solely based on quantity and not quality. And the vetting system also leaves a lot to be desired.
Cannot agree with your last paragraph though.
You will have no idea what the police have to put up with on a daily basis.
And I am not advocating that that is an excuse for lying. There are prats in the police service, equally there are prats in every walk of life.
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I'm sure they have to put up with some terrible stuff.... As you say though, that's just no excuse for a culture that does not value honesty and integrity. For me...those values should be fundamental to Policing IMHO.

Like I say, It's my biggest issue with the Police Force overall.... mistakes I can handle, even a certain amount of over-zealous policing, but a force that is dishonest at it's very heart...Not for me!!
 
Just for clarity: whether you agree or don’t agree with travelling 5 miles for exercise, this virus is not spreading through the population outdoors.
Those making it out to be reckless are wrong.

Compare and contrast to these activities:
Manipulating Tiers (such as London, Tier 2) when all evidence pointed otherwise = reckless.
Waiting a month to act on this new variant Covid-19 = reckless.
Christmas shopping in stores = reckless.
Mixing for 1 day on Christmas = reckless.
Schools open for 1 day = reckless.
Nails & spray tans = reckless.
NHS working for hours with inadequate PPE = reckless.
Food shopping with no masks = reckless.
Low quality masks = reckless.
Using public transport = reckless.
Hugging family members, meeting in groups, gathering or queuing less than 2m apart (most people are not spatially aware) = reckless.
Etc
 
As said above and by many people, many times, why on earth can there not just be a limit set e.g. 5/10 miles from your home maximum, whatever...easier to police and easier for people to understand.
 
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