Derbyshire Police at it again

BlackpoolWolves said:
As said above and by many people, many times, why on earth can there not just be a limit set e.g. 5/10 miles from your home maximum, whatever...easier to police and easier for people to understand.
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You’d like to think so. Needs to be nice easy figure like 5, 10 miles for people to remember.
5 feels about right. People are travelling further to work though, and that’s a bigger problem imo
 
BlackpoolWolves said:
As said above and by many people, many times, why on earth can there not just be a limit set e.g. 5/10 miles from your home maximum, whatever...easier to police and easier for people to understand.
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The reason is that the Government do not want to place those legal restrictions on people.
 
The police had to travel to this area no wonder the streets are lawless. They nab two women who travelled 5 mile to get some country air away from the heavily populated choking town and cities carrying hot drinks classed as picnic items.
You couldn’t make it up.
Scorton was heaving with people at the weekend, who I suspect travelled much further than five miles, and not a policeman in sight.
Nobody is sure how this virus is passed around( in or outdoors).
I shall be going for my regular picnic at McDonald’s taken with milk and sugar.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It's a fair point Moss.... They do have some uses and directing the traffic is definitely one area where they come into their own. 👍

Unfortunately with the Police, even the good ones get caught up and are complicit in the lies .when good men do nothing' etc...

The key for me is to largely avoid them and if you do have to deal with them just pander to their ego's.
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Or if they're buying you a pint 😉
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You have linked the Government guidelines....

The Law / Regulations can be found here

Coronavirus Legislation

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

'Necessary' is subject to definition as is 'reasonable excuse' and the help us by defining these things where required in the Law.

I personally wouldn't choose to go to a Starbucks, but if the shop is allowed to be open, then the implication is that people are free to use it.

The key issue under discussion, however is not Starbucks coffee, but exercise..... There is no signifcant risk of transmission that results from either taking outdoor exercise or travelling in a car alone or with your bubble in order to take exercise. In fact this is probably one of the safest activities that you could get involved in during the lockdown process...
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Exercise locations have become pinch points. I've seen lots of evidence of that over the last nine months. Coastal locations and inland beauty spots are high up the list, but the takeaways and "essential" shops that people descend upon are probably the biggest problem. I know for instance the Morrisons in West Kirby will have an endless procession tomorrow of people who have driven in for a walk round the marine lake or on the beach. One in 30 people could have Covid by now. Count how long it takes for 30 people to go through the doors of a supermarket or even corner shop. I'll be staying well clear.
 
C_C_C_Cider said:
You always get the ones who dont give a toss. Dont tell me your one of them that dont believe it's real.
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If you want to get some fresh air and avoid the crowds depending where you live then so be it.
After all, the government is telling you to fling open your windows(even though it is baltic outside) to blow the virus away.
What is it to be?
 
tangerine.com said:
If you want to get some fresh air and avoid the crowds depending where you live then so be it.
After all, the government is telling you to fling open your windows(even though it is baltic outside) to blow the virus away.
What is it to be?
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Stay at home and fling open your windows. Why go walking in the hills were it is freezing.
 
Wasn't the guidance last time that you should exercise at least twice the travelling time? So 5 miles is 10 mins each way making it a reasonable distance for a three quarter hour walk.
 
TheSpiritOf53 said:
Wasn't the guidance last time that you should exercise at least twice the travelling time? So 5 miles is 10 mins each way making it a reasonable distance for a three quarter hour walk.
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I wouldn't think 5 miles would be an issue in terms of being called local. Places like reservoirs arent in town centres, obviously.
 
Mark_GT said:
Exercise locations have become pinch points. I've seen lots of evidence of that over the last nine months. Coastal locations and inland beauty spots are high up the list, but the takeaways and "essential" shops that people descend upon are probably the biggest problem. I know for instance the Morrisons in West Kirby will have an endless procession tomorrow of people who have driven in for a walk round the marine lake or on the beach. One in 30 people could have Covid by now. Count how long it takes for 30 people to go through the doors of a supermarket or even corner shop. I'll be staying well clear.
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I've seen very little evidence of this to be honest and I've visited loads of Coastal Locations and inland beauty spots throughout the Summer and since additional lockdown measures have been introduced. There have been one or two particular days where cicumstances have conspired to see a very limited number of extremely popular locations experience a higher than normal footfall, but the dangers of transmission have always been extremely limited.

As far as I have seen, apart from in holiday resorts, when restrictions were lifetd during the Summer, people don't tend to bother with using any shops or facilities in the locations they choose to exercise.....

In most instances, the the Car Park at any given location is the closest you are likely to be in terms of coming into contact with another Human Being.... I've spent quite a lot of time walking in the Brecon Beacons, Lake District, Yorkshire Dales etc.. and you barely come into contact with other people at all.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've seen very little evidence of this to be honest and I've visited loads of Coastal Locations and inland beauty spots throughout the Summer and since additional lockdown measures have been introduced. There have been one or two particular days where cicumstances have conspired to see a very limited number of extremely popular locations experience a higher than normal footfall, but the dangers of transmission have always been extremely limited.

As far as I have seen, apart from in holiday resorts, when restrictions were lifetd during the Summer, people don't tend to bother with using any shops or facilities in the locations they choose to exercise.....

In most instances, the the Car Park at any given location is the closest you are likely to be in terms of coming into contact with another Human Being.... I've spent quite a lot of time walking in the Brecon Beacons, Lake District, Yorkshire Dales etc.. and you barely come into contact with other people at all.
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They always show the lines of cars but with the occupants sharing thousands of acres of open space the risk is all but nil - particularity say compared with a packed prom or a mooch around the local supermarket
 
Archibald Knox said:
Driving 5 miles out of the suburbs for a walk in the countryside. £400 in fines? It seems a bit draconian. Derbyshire must have a Chief Constable B’stard* in charge. You can drive 5 miles to your local supermarket, I believe?

I realise the police are targeting local beauty spots to prevent people congregating but if these two were alone it sounds overly officious. And when did a cup of coffee constitute a picnic? Whatever PC Plod decides, I suppose. Which is a problem with these rushed through regulations.

*Edit: The new Chief Con is the woman with the odd hairstyle...
www.derbyshire.police.uk

Rachel Swann confirmed as new Chief Constable

Derbyshire’s Police and Crime Panel has unanimously backed the Police and Crime Commissioner’s preferred candidate, Mrs Rachel Swann, as the next Chief Constable of Derbyshire Constabulary.
www.derbyshire.police.uk www.derbyshire.police.uk
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That is a face that would frighten a police horse. How could she possibly think that anybody with a barnet like that could be taken seriously. Looks like a "box ticker " to me.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've seen very little evidence of this to be honest and I've visited loads of Coastal Locations and inland beauty spots throughout the Summer and since additional lockdown measures have been introduced. There have been one or two particular days where cicumstances have conspired to see a very limited number of extremely popular locations experience a higher than normal footfall, but the dangers of transmission have always been extremely limited.

As far as I have seen, apart from in holiday resorts, when restrictions were lifetd during the Summer, people don't tend to bother with using any shops or facilities in the locations they choose to exercise.....

In most instances, the the Car Park at any given location is the closest you are likely to be in terms of coming into contact with another Human Being.... I've spent quite a lot of time walking in the Brecon Beacons, Lake District, Yorkshire Dales etc.. and you barely come into contact with other people at al
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Fair comment where people can hop out of their vehicles and head off suitably distanced from one another. Here in WK people continue to pour into the supermarkets and queue for the chippy or cafe serving takeaway drinks then off they go. I will continue to avoid them all like the plague, as they say. Elderly rambler types who often arrive by bus or Merseyrail seem to be some of the least tuned in to the risks based on what I've witnessed. It's like watching a zombie film! Covid infection rates now rocketing here on Merseyside.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
Wow, the naivety of that statement is staggering. I really hope in your lifetime you won't regret that comment. I surmise you might well do.
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It's more a complete lack of trust and respect than naivity..... I realise that crime happens and that we need a Police Service, I just think it's unfortunate that the only one we have is so badly let down by the inherent dishonesty. To that extent you feel like you are compromising your own integrity simply by getting onvolved with them..... I was required to give a statement not so long ago and I had to stop the officer taking the statement from coaching me.... It's like the whole dishonesty thing is just a part of what they do, to the extent that I'm not even sure if many of them do it consciously.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Bend It what’s your view on the Derbyshire approach ?
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TAM, Seems to be a tad heavy handed. My Force has always been one for moderation, so these actions seem a bit bewildering to me. Having said that, the ladies didn't exactly portray themselves as genuine 'hikers', and the fact they travelled 'inter county' wasn't a redeeming factor.

I have the same dilemma as a lot of people, in that nothing has really been defined, and in that is another problem.... the legality of these fines. It would only take a stated case to cause a bantle of refunded monies.

What posters don't appreciate is that we are the Force that Polices the Peak District, and that has untold difficulties, exacerbated by COVID

A new statement by the Force a few minutes ago suggests that the area should now be defined as 'local' meaning the town or village you live in - much like the original National lockdown.
 
Personally I wouldn’t accept a fixed penalty for driving 5m

I only have to look out of my window during the day to see how much traffic is on the roads compared with April

Where are they all going ?
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
TAM, Seems to be a tad heavy handed. My Force has always been one for moderation, so these actions seem a bit bewildering to me. Having said that, the ladies didn't exactly portray themselves as genuine 'hikers', and the fact they travelled 'inter county' wasn't a redeeming factor.

I have the same dilemma as a lot of people, in that nothing has really been defined, and in that is another problem.... the legality of these fines. It would only take a stated case to cause a bantle of refunded monies.

What posters don't appreciate is that we are the Force that Polices the Peak District, and that has untold difficulties, exacerbated by COVID

A new statement by the Force a few minutes ago suggests that the area should now be defined as 'local' meaning the town or village you live in - much like the original National lockdown.
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Bendit, with the greatest respect, it is not your Police Services' job to set rules, that is the Government's job. The Police are there to enforce the law, not make it up. It is grand to advise people to stay local, and try to define local, but to fine people on the basis of no legislation is, by definition, unlawful.
 
Interesting to hear Cumbria Police's take on it....

"We do not make Government Policy or Enforce Guidance - We do have a role in ensuring people understand the guidance and do the right thing"
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Bendit, with the greatest respect, it is not your Police Services' job to set rules, that is the Government's job. The Police are there to enforce the law, not make it up. It is grand to advise people to stay local, and try to define local, but to fine people on the basis of no legislation is, by definition, unlawful.
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I agree, totally, and I haven't stated I agree with Derbyshires actions either 👍
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Bendit, with the greatest respect, it is not your Police Services' job to set rules, that is the Government's job. The Police are there to enforce the law, not make it up. It is grand to advise people to stay local, and try to define local, but to fine people on the basis of no legislation is, by definition, unlawful.
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Yes, but the law says stay local. The issue is there is no clear definition as it uses 'reasonable' instead
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
I’d say the chances of these fixed penalty notices being upheld is almost zero
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These, yes, but how many others have fallen for it? It's like those sharks who used to scam parkers in Blackpool charging a few hundred quid to remove illegal clamps.
 
It really depends on where you live and what facilties there are locally. If you live in a really built up area you may have to drive a couple of miles to get to a decent park or bit of open space for exercise. If you live in the countryside you can probably walk from your house.
The issue with these 2 women is they have admitted they didn't have to travel 5 miles for their exercise. Perhaps they could have been formally cautioned rather than fined. I have little sympathy for them because they knew they were breaking the rules and seem quite happy to be in the media spotlight
During the first lockdown people were much more vigilant about following the rules. Unfortunately, many people are less so now and this is one of the reasons for the much worse spread of the virus. If you can't follow the rules when there are over 60k new infections a day, over 1300 deaths a day and hospitals are overflowing, then it is a poor show
 
bfcpete said:
It really depends on where you live and what facilties there are locally. If you live in a really built up area you may have to drive a couple of miles to get to a decent park or bit of open space for exercise. If you live in the countryside you can probably walk from your house.
The issue with these 2 women is they have admitted they didn't have to travel 5 miles for their exercise. Perhaps they could have been formally cautioned rather than fined. I have little sympathy for them because they knew they were breaking the rules and seem quite happy to be in the media spotlight
During the first lockdown people were much more vigilant about following the rules. Unfortunately, many people are less so now and this is one of the reasons for the much worse spread of the virus. If you can't follow the rules when there are over 60k new infections a day, over 1300 deaths a day and hospitals are overflowing, then it is a poor show
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They’d have been better pottering around the shops like everyone else
 
Wizaard said:
Yes, but the law says stay local. The issue is there is no clear definition as it uses 'reasonable' instead
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The Law doesn't say anything at all about staying local and there is a very clear defintion of reasonable ...

"Reasonable" is not being used to define the nature of the exercise you take or the distance that you are travelling to take it.... Reasonable is used in order to detemine whether you have "Reasonable Excuse" to be outside of your home... The law then goes on to specifically define "Exercise" and the types of places where exercise can be taken as a "Reasonable Excuse"...

There may be some room for debate about whether or not the primary purpose of your activity is actually driving or taking exercise itself, but if you are in the act of exercising and in an public outdoor space, then that is a reasonable excuse by definition.
 
Updating this morning, Derbyshire Police are reviewing all fixed penalty notices, as guidance from the police chiefs have told them exactly what the AVFTT intelligentsia have already posted about the law.

Should we set up a consultancy ? 🤣
 
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