Don’t start me on Bowler.

He’s definitely gone from a definite starting place to a questionable one because his performances has dropped off a bit.

It happens in football for a variety of reasons, he was tearing teams apart and now teams double up on him or have studied him and he needs to learn how to step up and take his game to the next level.

I don’t question his commitment though I’ve seen him do enough closing down and tracking back to suggest he isn’t lazy.

Poor performance, probably deserves to be dropped and to give someone else a chance in his position but he’s still a dangerous player and will play a part if we’re to carry on our good progress.

There always has to be a whipping boy on here and it seems like it’s Josh’s turn atm.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If my Aunty had bollocks etc…

Every match has if, but and maybe moments and you can’t judge a player on what might have been if X, Y & Z had happened, otherwise we’d all be Ronaldo.

If he’s going to take the next step then he’s got to learn to release the ball, improve his end product and his decision making. That’s not an issue from last night, it’s always there (highlighted more in games like last night vs better quality, more intelligent players).

If we can coach those improvements into him then he’s going to be a very, very good player.

That’s not intended to be a criticism, it’s is what it is and it’s honest and true.
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I don't doubt any of that. However, if we're criticising him for his passing, the easiest pass of the night would have put him in but he didn't get the service he needed. Think that's true a lot of the time. Quite often we delay playing the pass to him until there's a man on him rather than in space. It's a team game, and we're not helping get the best out of him.
 
20togo said:
I know exactly what the o/p meant. No interpretation needed.
And I've said more than once that Bowler had a shocker last night. See Bergens ratings thread where he gave him a 6 and I said he was no more than a 4.
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20's

No problemmo, I wasn't speaking directly to you and the only point I meant to make - which has taken me about 2 hours - is that it would appear that you can't say that Joe Bloggs had a chitter without caveating that he has massive potential and that you are not as good a judge as Critch.

You've said that Bowyer had a chitter, the o/p probably agrees.
 
He had a bad game but we are a better team with him in it. He offers a real threat in the last third, and other teams know this, which creates space elsewhere. On his day he is unplayable.
Its the best team we've had in a decade, and he is part of it, so stop with the negs and enjoy
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If my Aunty had bollocks etc…

Every match has if, but and maybe moments and you can’t judge a player on what might have been if X, Y & Z had happened, otherwise we’d all be Ronaldo.

If he’s going to take the next step then he’s got to learn to release the ball, improve his end product and his decision making. That’s not an issue from last night, it’s always there (highlighted more in games like last night vs better quality, more intelligent players).

If we can coach those improvements into him then he’s going to be a very, very good player.

That’s not intended to be a criticism, it’s is what it is and it’s honest and true.
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My last, last, last post on this thread.

I think you make good points re Bowler but are probably too quick to dismiss Wiz's reference to the fickleness in football.

If Bowler had scored last night, even if their keeper - I know aunties and b0110x - had booted the ball into his face and it had rebounded in to the goals, this thread would not exist.

If we'd have won, it probably wouldn't exist.


Peace out gents.
 
Wizaard said:
I don't doubt any of that. However, if we're criticising him for his passing, the easiest pass of the night would have put him in but he didn't get the service he needed. Think that's true a lot of the time. Quite often we delay playing the pass to him until there's a man on him rather than in space. It's a team game, and we're not helping get the best out of him.
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There’s a lot of things we could do better that might potentially help Wiz… You can start with the quicker release that Maxi can Grimshaw gives us for one thing, but as a player, you’ve got to be adaptable…

That’s where say Keshi, who clearly has an intelligent football brain, will find a way to work an opportunity and adapt within game and a bowler will just keep repeating the same thing regardless…

When a team is doubling up or showing you into dead ends, then you have to learn to capitalise…

He’s got youth on his side and we’ve got a very good coach, which all worlds in our favour amd of course, he is exciting on the ball, but that makes it all the more frustrating, because the lad should be having a lot more impact on games, given his ability.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
My last, last, last post on this thread.

I think you make good points re Bowler but are probably too quick to dismiss Wiz's reference to the fickleness in football.

If Bowler had scored last night, even if their keeper - I know aunties and b0110x - had booted the ball into his face and it had rebounded in to the goals, this thread would not exist.

If we'd have won, it probably wouldn't exist.


Peace out gents.
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From my own perspective 2020, I’ve consistently said the same things re Bowler. Last night didn’t surprise me at all as it’s a consistent theme…

You put last night down to him having a shitter… I put it down to better quality opposition simply highlighting his limitations.

It’s maybe just a case of accepting it for what it is…. 👍
 
Some of you lot are absolutely clueless (or blind). Yes Bowler wasn’t on top of his game last night - albeit he was man marked the entire game, usually by 2 players. But throughout the season he’s torn teams apart. He doesn’t have many assists but he’s been involved in a lot of goals. We work the ball around the final 3rd (possibly a little too much at times) and Bowlers runs and dribbles draw in defenders which create spaces, spaces which Gabriel, Yates, Lavery snd Carey seem to love. We don’t play long balls in behind or whip crosses on to a target man like Feeney did for Gnando so we’re not gonna see the same level of stats from the wide men. But Bowler is brilliant and there’s not a team in this division which wouldn’t want him on their books.

Give the lad a break. Hopefully he tears the Brum LB a new arsehole on Saturday and shuts you all up!
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
From my own perspective 2020, I’ve consistently said the same things re Bowler. Last night didn’t surprise me at all as it’s a consistent theme…

You put last night down to him having a shitter… I put it down to better quality opposition simply highlighting his limitations.

It’s maybe just a case of accepting it for what it is…. 👍
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I fully agree but just to add, that I also put his chitter partly down to the opposition but I think it's also fair to say that he is capable of playing well against good/better opposition.

Are WBA that much better than Fulham ????????????????

Don't bother, I hear all you say.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
it would appear that you can't say that Joe Bloggs had a chitter without caveating that he has massive potential and that you are not as good a judge as Critch.
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Reading the posts on here during a delightful lunch at St Catherine’s Hospice café in Lostock Hall, putting my money … and my food where my mouth is. No sign of that fecker Farage, thank goodness … but I digress

Seaside2020 mentions ‘caveating’ and I can’t help but notice that there is much more of it on avftt today than there ever was.

People pandering to the sensitivities of others might have it’s place in many quarters but, come on peeps, have confidence in what you say on here and then, if necessary, suffer the slings and arrows that your opinion may merit, or not, as the case might be

Me and Scara, Scara and I, didn’t get where we are today by pussyfooting around calling a spade a spade. We simply have different opinions on what that phrase might mean

p.s. the crispy duck salad with a plum and pomegranite sauce was a sheer delight and I would recommend it absolutely 👍
 
SeasideKurt said:
No, but my point is, they have two right sided players to content with and they pressed more and higher than any other side we've faced this year that I've watched.
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Right, so Bowler & Gabriel need to bring this to NC’s attention, if he hasn’t already noticed, who then needs to devise a plan to counteract it.

When something isn’t working, you change it.
 
How's about giving the lad a chance to see how he responds to the top notch coaching here....how's about giving them all a chance.
Some on here spent all last season discussing the ineptitude of Critchley.
Two weeks ago we were wondering if Reece James would ever get in the first team again.
 
Wizaard said:
For what it's worth, I don't think Bowler will start on Saturday. We'll go with Mitchell.
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In fairness Wiz, it was a tough game last night and tests the limits of our capabilities as a team and individuals. We're always going to struggle to be a significant attacking threat in games like that given the players we have available and the limitations that places on the style of our play.... Ideally we need a quality link up player in Midfield, instead of relying on the Gary Madine option...

We're expecting a lot of players like Lavery for example in games like last night and recently we've had to rely on a few exceptional goals to gain our points...
 
Recidivist3 said:
Reading the posts on here during a delightful lunch at St Catherine’s Hospice café in Lostock Hall, putting my money … and my food where my mouth is. No sign of that fecker Farage, thank goodness … but I digress

Seaside2020 mentions ‘caveating’ and I can’t help but notice that there is much more of it on avftt today than there ever was.

People pandering to the sensitivities of others might have it’s place in many quarters but, come on peeps, have confidence in what you say on here and then, if necessary, suffer the slings and arrows that your opinion may merit, or not, as the case might be

Me and Scara, Scara and I, didn’t get where we are today by pussyfooting around calling a spade a spade. We simply have different opinions on what that phrase might mean

p.s. the crispy duck salad with a plum and pomegranite sauce was a sheer delight and I would recommend it absolutely 👍
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I find myself almost agreeing with you.

I apologise for using the term 'caveating' but you will see far more 'insert correct term' ing on AVFTT when a poster says A and is then accused of B,C and D.
 
tango94 said:
How's about giving the lad a chance to see how he responds to the top notch coaching here....how's about giving them all a chance.
Some on here spent all last season discussing the ineptitude of Critchley.
Two weeks ago we were wondering if Reece James would ever get in the first team again.
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Here we go.. We have another Blackpool fan who believes people cannot have an opinion on club/players that they pay money to go and watch.
 
It seems we're between a rock and a hard place with young Josh.
Has plenty of pace and more often than not 1 on 1 he'll get past his man.
It's the final ball or workmate where folk keep digging him out.

As has been said on this MB time and time again, if he had the ability to beat a man AND get the cross/pass in then it wouldn't be long before he moved on from BFC.

I'm sure that Critch can see a player in there, it just depends how long he'll give him until he goes to another plan. Obviously the opposition think he's a threat as they're now doubling up on him.

I think it's now upto Josh to work hard on that final ball.
 
Wizzerboy said:
It seems we're between a rock and a hard place with young Josh.
Has plenty of pace and more often than not 1 on 1 he'll get past his man.
It's the final ball or workmate where folk keep digging him out.

As has been said on this MB time and time again, if he had the ability to beat a man AND get the cross/pass in then it wouldn't be long before he moved on from BFC.

I'm sure that Critch can see a player in there, it just depends how long he'll give him until he goes to another plan. Obviously the opposition think he's a threat as they're now doubling up on him.

I think it's now upto Josh to work hard on that final ball.
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His work rate going forward is unquestionable, in terms of getting the ball and running at men. His final ball requires improvement, correct.

The alarming thing is his work rate back towards our goal. There was a few times last night where he left Gabriel 2v1. Albeit, he did track back eventually after being demanded to by his teammates, but at professional level (especially championship level), players should be able to assess danger and complete simple tasks, like following runners, tracking back etc, with ease.

I agree completely with this post.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
All this Bowler talk on here and other threads has developed into classic AVFTT chite.

It would appear that it is not possible that Bowler could be a young, exciting, inexperienced player AND had a chitter last night.

Next week he puts in a match winning performance and is the new Stanley Matthews, the week after he has a chitter and all those who said he played well the week before were somehow wrong.
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It might even be that he was playing against some decent players. He can’t set the world on fire every game, but he will improve under Critch.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The trouble is that he dribbles into nowhere when a defence splitting pass is on. I don’t think there’s any point denying that the lad can run with the ball at his feet, but he’s definitely not going to progress unless he gains some intelligence about when to run at defenders and particularly when to release the ball.

As has been said before, maybe that’s why he’s here and not in the Prem, because if he did get his end product right, then he’d likely be outbid our league….

On the plus side, he has got youth on his side and Critch is a great coach… personally I think people will be saying exactly the same things about Josh in 5 years time…

You just have to accept him for what he is and what he brings to the team, despite all the frustrations that go with him…
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That’s balanced/fair.
 
Josh is young, Mitchell and Anderson are rising to the challenge of championship football. Bowlers early promise is now working against him , for me he needs a little time on the bench or maybe out altogether. The potential is clearly there and we have the right man in NC to coax it out of him👍
 
Newholland said:
Josh is young, Mitchell and Anderson are rising to the challenge of championship football. Bowlers early promise is now working against him , for me he needs a little time on the bench or maybe out altogether. The potential is clearly there and we have the right man in NC to coax it out of him👍
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Mentioned this on another thread re Bowler, as it stands keep him on the bench then let him loose with 15/20 mins to go when the opposition defence is tiring.
 
Ex Prem team in does homework, spots danger, tries to nullify at source or close danger down quickly with good defenders shocker.

I'm not surprised by last night, starting is easier to defend against than coming on. I've said before, when he gets the final ball right, he's off fo a good price.
 
Genius or fool, can look fantastic or terrible. I think the meyhem he causes opens things up and creates chances. If it goes wrong, he look awful. Agree he could work harder and doesn't look that fit. Stick with him and give him more time, he's the kinda guy that pulls rabbits from top hats.
 
He's clearly very talented but I am not sure he has the right mentality to succeed at a decent level. His off the ball movement is almost non-existent and he doesn't seem hungry enough to improve himself. Critch has got his work cut out but if any manager can make a top player out of Bowler it's him. I hope Josh realises what a great opportunity this season is for him.
 
All these comments slagging him off, who are people wanting in his place?

If it’s CJ then I give up.

Mitchell can be a handful but he’s scored 1 goal for us too.
 
Adams Kebab said:
All these comments slagging him off, who are people wanting in his place?

If it’s CJ then I give up.

Mitchell can be a handful but he’s scored 1 goal for us too.
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I’m not slagging him, I just question his decision making a lot of the time. His ability to run at a player is second to none, however his final ball and work rate back towards his own goal leaves a lot to be desired.
 
AViewFromTheNorth said:
I’m not slagging him, I just question his decision making a lot of the time. His ability to run at a player is second to none, however his final ball and work rate back towards his own goal leaves a lot to be desired.
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His workrate tracking back is rightly questioned and last night he jumped out of a tackle and ducked under a header so yes there's a lot to improve on. But I'll make this point again. We get the ball out to him but then when he's running down the wing offer him little or no support where he is able to lay the ball off easily. That means he's inevitably gonna get crowded out many times forcing him to lose the ball or attempt impossible passes. We need to get players closer to him when he's got the ball but in the system we play without that no 10 playmaker it makes ir very difficult.
 
I get fully that all players have to graft and track back etc. but he’s an attacking right winger playing in a 4-4-2, he’s a flair player, he’s probably going to pull out of challenges, players of this mould often do & aren’t as quick to get back as they are forward. It’s like when people said Matt Phillips was shit at headers.

Last night every time he got at the full back, Mowatt in particular came over to double up and 95% of the time took the ball off him. Other teams are wary of him without doubt, when we beat Boro, Warnock made of point of saying he’s “highly rated”, but Middixle knows best eh.
 
Can be frustrating like all ball players but he excites me and is full of potential. Not his best game against a very robust defence. Loads more t look forward to IMO
 
Bowler has talent. We all know it and we've all seen it. He also has limitations, as fully discussed on here. Hopefully, coaching will develop him further. However, if people want an all round attacker, tackler, visionary passer, box to box carrier - that isn't Josh Bowler. And yes, there are some top defenders in this League who aren't simply going to give him a free pass.
 
Critch said our fans singing the name of players who had made a mistake really spurred them on. So why publiclly slag them off? It doesn't really help? Have a moan down the pub. Creative players will never be 100% perfect.
 
Loco said:
Critch said our fans singing the name of players who had made a mistake really spurred them on. So why publiclly slag them off? It doesn't really help? Have a moan down the pub. Creative players will never be 100% perfect.
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We have a forum to discuss football matters and discussing the attributes or failings of individual players on here is a world apart from what we do inside the stadium. When at Bloomfield Road every player deserves our full support and we should back them to the hilt.

In the case of JB I really don't think most people are "slagging him off" or "calling him shit", that's certainly not what I'm reading one here in any case. I think it's mainly that our fans get frustrated that Josh is not always managing to reach his full potential quite yet. It's obvious that the lad has an awful lot of talent and that he is awesome and exciting with the ball at his feet. It's simply about how we get the very best out of the ability that he has right now and perhaps also about how he might push himself on to the next level.. As has been said a number of times on here, as the quality of opposition improves, he is going to be doubled up on or defenders aren't going to be fooled by the same trickery, so you've got to be able to adapt.... That might mean that we (as fans) have to accept that in some games Bowler might just be sacrificed to tie up an end and our openings come from other sources, it might mean that Josh has to adjust his game, release a bit earlier and capitalise on the different circumstances...

Whatever gets said, the lad is an amazing talent for what he is.... 👍👍👍
 
I was really answering the OP.
A thread titled "Don't start me on Bowler.." followed by "Ive been telling you all for weeks. End of" may just get a few people's backs up.

Anyhow, I don't disagree with what you have written.
 
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