Is a rebuild really needed? Next seasons squad

Stu99

Stu99

Well-known member
I've seen a lot of people talking about needing a full-squad rebuild, akin to the Oyston era. I cant help but think it's been blown out of proportion a bit; we currently have the following squad under contract (including options)

Hamilton Yates Dale
Trybull Carey Dougall
Thompson Connolly Ekpiteta Lyons
Grimshaw

With a bench including; Casey, Husband James, Gabriel, Apter and Lavery.

Realistically, all we need is a backup keeper, a creative midfielder and a goal scoring winger (or 2) and I think we'll have a decent squad. Thoughts?
 
Stu99 said:
I've seen a lot of people talking about needing a full-squad rebuild, akin to the Oyston era. I cant help but think it's been blown out of proportion a bit; we currently have the following squad under contract (including options)

Hamilton Yates Dale
Trybull Carey Dougall
Thompson Connolly Ekpiteta Lyons
Grimshaw

With a bench including; Casey, Husband James, Gabriel, Apter and Lavery.

Realistically, all we need is a backup keeper, a creative midfielder and a goal scoring winger (or 2) and I think we'll have a decent squad. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Maxwell has a 12 month option as does a few others I believe
 
Hamilton's out of contract, James and Dale will likely be permanent moves to their loan clubs, Yates will probably be sold.

Hamilton I imagine would accept a new contract, but we'll need another couple of wingers as well, a holding CM to replace Stewart/Bridcutt, a first XI CB, at least one striker, and possibly a new contract for Stuart Moore.


Love BFC🍊 said:
Maxwell has a 12 month option as does a few others I believe
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Is it worth it to have him as backup for Grimshaw? Isn't he one of the higher earners?
 
I said on another thread we have to be careful to avoid a knee jerk reaction to relegation (if it happens!!) regarding the players with options.

Husband, Keshi (I know we don’t have an option on him), Kenny, CJ, Marvin, even Garbutt and probably others I can’t remember right now we’re players who were part of the best team in league 1 for the second half of the season just a couple of years ago. None of them will be too old, just need their confidence back.
 
Pauls_Boutique said:
I said on another thread we have to be careful to avoid a knee jerk reaction to relegation (if it happens!!) regarding the players with options.

Husband, Keshi (I know we don’t have an option on him), Kenny, CJ, Marvin, even Garbutt and probably others I can’t remember right now we’re players who were part of the best team in league 1 for the second half of the season just a couple of years ago. None of them will be too old, just need their confidence back.
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Agreed. Get a couple of marque signings and an exciting manager and the fans are back on board!
 
If we go down you can wave goodbye to Marv and Jerry.
I don't give a shit how long they've got on their contracts they'll get snapped up by championship clubs.
 
I think Dougall is on his way, reading behind the lines on social media I think he was expecting to leave in January

he wasn't rated by Appleton from the start of the season, and I only think he was saved by Appleton going and being replaced

by MM plus Bridcutt being announced as out for the season. The big problem is that some of the players under contract such as Yates, Ekpiteta

will want to maximize their earning potential and career prospects and may want to move if we get relegated, I know that we can force them to

stay but if decent offers come in they will be sold.

With a smaller squad in league one, all the injury-prone players will be released, and unfortunately Madine. It will be a lot more difficult

then if it happened last season, we are going to lose half of the team that Dobbie is playing, last season towards the end there was only a couple

of players on loan in the team. There will also be a couple of surprises and I expect we will lose a couple of players that we will be expecting to

keep, Lyons will be on a lot of clubs' radars now.
 
Stu99 said:
I've seen a lot of people talking about needing a full-squad rebuild, akin to the Oyston era. I cant help but think it's been blown out of proportion a bit; we currently have the following squad under contract (including options)

Hamilton Yates Dale
Trybull Carey Dougall
Thompson Connolly Ekpiteta Lyons
Grimshaw

With a bench including; Casey, Husband James, Gabriel, Apter and Lavery.

Realistically, all we need is a backup keeper, a creative midfielder and a goal scoring winger (or 2) and I think we'll have a decent squad. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
You're dreaming if you think Marv and Yates are going to be here. They'll both get better offers, and I wouldn't be-grudge them the move.
 
If we have any designs on promotion and subsequently establishing ourselves in the Championship, then that's going to require a complete overhaul of the squad... If not immediately, then it needs to be planned.

Out of the players mentioned in the OP, I think there's probably only Yates, Ekpiteta, Gabriel abd maybe Lyons who I would consider capable of a regular First Team place at Championship Level... To that extent, you've got to be planning to improve on them over the course of this season really.

Hamilton (Squad Player, will be Ok in L1)
Dale (Seemed a bit lightweight, though decent L1 Player)
Trybull (Best years behind him - Injury issues)
Carey (Make or Break season for him IMO)
Dougall (I suspect he'll be off)]
Thompson (Another who needs to prove himself capable)
Connolly (Not Championship standard)
Ekpiteta (Struggled this season, but hopefully can regain form - Pretty useless when trying to play out from back though)
Lyons (Needs to improve defensively / positionally - decent prospect though)
Grimshaw (too small and not physically up to Championship standard)
Casey (not good enough)
Husband (Squad Player)
James (will probably leave)
Apter (Unknown quantity really)
Lavery (Not good enough)
 
Stu99 said:
I've seen a lot of people talking about needing a full-squad rebuild, akin to the Oyston era. I cant help but think it's been blown out of proportion a bit; we currently have the following squad under contract (including options)

Hamilton Yates Dale
Trybull Carey Dougall
Thompson Connolly Ekpiteta Lyons
Grimshaw

With a bench including; Casey, Husband James, Gabriel, Apter and Lavery.

Realistically, all we need is a backup keeper, a creative midfielder and a goal scoring winger (or 2) and I think we'll have a decent squad. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
If we do as you suggest then I think we will struggle and could be in the bottom half of the division and thats assuming Yates and Dougall will stay which I doubt. I very much doubt. I dont think Thompson is even good enough for League 1. This impending relegation is a disaster for the club.
 
We will need a big rebuild, but it will not be akin to what happened during the Oyston era.

Keep (18):

Yates
Lyons
Grimshaw
CJ
Beesley
Lavery
Marvin
Carey
Gabriel
Thorniley (if he accepts new terms)
Thompson
Husband
Nelson (If he accepts new terms)
Tharme
Virtue
Dale
Apter
Holmes


Let go (16):

Garbutt
Goode
Rogers
Fiorini
Bowler
Dougall
Lubala
Bridcutt
Stewart
Trybull
Keshi
Madine
Poveda
Casey
Maxwell
Moore

Give or take a couple players either leaving or staying that I have got wrong and that will leave us with a nucleus of about 15/16 players in the Summer who will still be contracted to the club.

This will be nowhere close to the type of rebuild we experienced under the Oyston's as we have a lot of players contracted to us in the long term, the group that I've listed as staying is probably good enough for worst case finishing in the top half.

We will probably need to bring in 10/11 players, which is absolutely a big rebuild, but not insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination.

In the Summer of 20/21 we brought in 19 (!!!) new players who were able to be coached into a promotion winning side so there is no reason why we can't do the same this Summer with a smaller (albeit still big) rebuild needed.

It's all on the board now, appoint the right man in charge and get to work ASAP!
 
AmericanTangerine said:
We will need a big rebuild, but it will not be akin to what happened during the Oyston era.

Keep (18):

Yates
Lyons
Grimshaw
CJ
Beesley
Lavery
Marvin
Carey
Gabriel
Thorniley (if he accepts new terms)
Thompson
Husband
Nelson (If he accepts new terms)
Tharme
Virtue
Dale
Apter
Holmes


Let go (16):

Garbutt
Goode
Rogers
Fiorini
Bowler
Dougall
Lubala
Bridcutt
Stewart
Trybull
Keshi
Madine
Poveda
Casey
Maxwell
Moore

Give or take a couple players either leaving or staying that I have got wrong and that will leave us with a nucleus of about 15/16 players in the Summer who will still be contracted to the club.

This will be nowhere close to the type of rebuild we experienced under the Oyston's as we have a lot of players contracted to us in the long term, the group that I've listed as staying is probably good enough for worst case finishing in the top half.

We will probably need to bring in 10/11 players, which is absolutely a big rebuild, but not insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination.

In the Summer of 20/21 we brought in 19 (!!!) new players who were able to be coached into a promotion winning side so there is no reason why we can't do the same this Summer with a smaller (albeit still big) rebuild needed.

It's all on the board now, appoint the right man in charge and get to work ASAP!
Click to expand...
This is pretty close to my thoughts too, and I think realistic. The only one I’d love to keep is Keshi, I think he deserves another season to try to get back to full fitness and see what he can do. I don’t think there will be many suitors for him.
 
cside said:
This is pretty close to my thoughts too, and I think realistic. The only one I’d love to keep is Keshi, I think he deserves another season to try to get back to full fitness and see what he can do. I don’t think there will be many suitors for him.
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Can't argue with that, but we know that we'll only be getting 15-20 games max from him unfortunately which is why I've put him in my "out" category.

Think a couple of the players I've listed under "keep" won't be here either.
 
well at the moment it's purely guesswork as to who and who won't be here next season.The extent of the re-build will be to some extent determined by whether we can keep the likes of Ekpiteta and Yates. Losing them for me creates a massive hole in our squad. I think we know that both those two are well capable of playing at Championship level and so they may well attract a bit of interest from other clubs.
 
20togo said:
well at the moment it's purely guesswork as to who and who won't be here next season.The extent of the re-build will be to some extent determined by whether we can keep the likes of Ekpiteta and Yates. Losing them for me creates a massive hole in our squad. I think we know that both those two are well capable of playing at Championship level and so they may well attract a bit of interest from other clubs.
Click to expand...
I don't see Epo going, not until very last minute or Jan. I think he needs to prove his fitness and return to some composure. I don't think we'd get as much as people hope either. I'm assuming he's u/c.
 
Mine is very similar with American Tangerine, so assuming we lose Yates?? I would work around this in a 343 formation.

This would leave us with 3 big holes to fill. Back it up with some decent loans and we wouldn't be too bad.

Would love Fiorini and/or Rogers to come back as they would rip it up in league 1.


...........................................................................Grimshaw..............................................................................

...............(Ball playing CB).................Ekpiteta/Nelson.......................Thorniley/Husband...................

Gabriel.....................................................................................................................................................Lyons

....................................(New defensive CM).............................Keshi/Apter................................................

.................Lavery........................................................................................................(New Winger)..............

..............................................................................Holmes...................................................................................


Squad players
Connolly
Cj Hamilton
Dougall
Beesley
Carey
Dale
Tharme
Thompson
 
fcblackpool said:
I don't see Epo going, not until very last minute or Jan. I think he needs to prove his fitness and return to some composure. I don't think we'd get as much as people hope either. I'm assuming he's u/c.
Click to expand...
I think his value to us is probably more than what his value to others. But yep, you're right in that he probably has to prove his fitness again.
 
GrahamwantshisOates said:
Tharme looks a decent League 1 player.
Had a good game last night at Bolton
Click to expand...
Forest Green went down but was that down to Casey or others?
Think he, scored a couple of Championship headed goals and we need height in the side for corners attack and defence. Would not write him off yet.
It might be Tharme and Casey next season as both contracted players who played 30 plus L1 games last season
 
Even if we lose Marvin, Grimmy, or Yates we would be recouping a couple million for each since they are all on long contracts, and the money gained from them would be put right back into the squad. That's the difference between the Oyston's and Sadler.

No matter what happens we will be in a good position to rebuild and retool the squad.

All we need is the board and recruitment team to make the right decisions now.
 
As well as Apter and Holmes getting game time, there is a good chance Marriette and Moore and Trusty could also be around 1st team for some matches, none would count towards squad numbers.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If we have any designs on promotion and subsequently establishing ourselves in the Championship, then that's going to require a complete overhaul of the squad... If not immediately, then it needs to be planned.

Out of the players mentioned in the OP, I think there's probably only Yates, Ekpiteta, Gabriel abd maybe Lyons who I would consider capable of a regular First Team place at Championship Level... To that extent, you've got to be planning to improve on them over the course of this season really.

Hamilton (Squad Player, will be Ok in L1)
Dale (Seemed a bit lightweight, though decent L1 Player)
Trybull (Best years behind him - Injury issues)
Carey (Make or Break season for him IMO)
Dougall (I suspect he'll be off)]
Thompson (Another who needs to prove himself capable)
Connolly (Not Championship standard)
Ekpiteta (Struggled this season, but hopefully can regain form - Pretty useless when trying to play out from back though)
Lyons (Needs to improve defensively / positionally - decent prospect though)
Grimshaw (too small and not physically up to Championship standard)
Casey (not good enough)
Husband (Squad Player)
James (will probably leave)
Apter (Unknown quantity really)
Lavery (Not good enough)
Click to expand...
Don't forget Jake Beesley and Brad Holmes who are both unknown quantities and could possibly save the club a fortune.
 
Stu99 said:
I've seen a lot of people talking about needing a full-squad rebuild, akin to the Oyston era. I cant help but think it's been blown out of proportion a bit; we currently have the following squad under contract (including options)

Hamilton Yates Dale
Trybull Carey Dougall
Thompson Connolly Ekpiteta Lyons
Grimshaw

With a bench including; Casey, Husband James, Gabriel, Apter and Lavery.

Realistically, all we need is a backup keeper, a creative midfielder and a goal scoring winger (or 2) and I think we'll have a decent squad. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Beesley and Bradshaw to add
 
AmericanTangerine said:
Even if we lose Marvin, Grimmy, or Yates we would be recouping a couple million for each since they are all on long contracts, and the money gained from them would be put right back into the squad. That's the difference between the Oyston's and Sadler.

No matter what happens we will be in a good position to rebuild and retool the squad.

All we need is the board and recruitment team to make the right decisions now.
Click to expand...
do we know the Bowler and Critchley money was put back into the squad? And remember, if/when we go down we have 7 million less incoming money that we would have had in the Championship. Potentially that 7 million could have gone a fair way to rebuilding. It's not unreasonable to think that Sadler would have to put more of his own money in for L1 than the Championship. And no way would we get anything like 2 mil for Grimshaw, long contract or not. He would first need to have an outstanding season in L1 for a higher club to come in for him.
 
20togo said:
do we know the Bowler and Critchley money was put back into the squad? And remember, if/when we go down we have 7 million less incoming money that we would have had in the Championship. Potentially that 7 million could have gone a fair way to rebuilding. It's not unreasonable to think that Sadler would have to put more of his own money in for L1 than the Championship. And no way would we get anything like 2 mil for Grimshaw, long contract or not. He would first need to have an outstanding season in L1 for a higher club to come in for him.
Click to expand...
We lose a few million but the wage bill is cut by 20%.
 
AmericanTangerine said:
We will need a big rebuild, but it will not be akin to what happened during the Oyston era.

Keep (18):

Yates
Lyons
Grimshaw
CJ
Beesley
Lavery
Marvin
Carey
Gabriel
Thorniley (if he accepts new terms)
Thompson
Husband
Nelson (If he accepts new terms)
Tharme
Virtue
Dale
Apter
Holmes


Let go (16):

Garbutt
Goode
Rogers
Fiorini
Bowler
Dougall
Lubala
Bridcutt
Stewart
Trybull
Keshi
Madine
Poveda
Casey
Maxwell
Moore

Give or take a couple players either leaving or staying that I have got wrong and that will leave us with a nucleus of about 15/16 players in the Summer who will still be contracted to the club.

This will be nowhere close to the type of rebuild we experienced under the Oyston's as we have a lot of players contracted to us in the long term, the group that I've listed as staying is probably good enough for worst case finishing in the top half.

We will probably need to bring in 10/11 players, which is absolutely a big rebuild, but not insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination.

In the Summer of 20/21 we brought in 19 (!!!) new players who were able to be coached into a promotion winning side so there is no reason why we can't do the same this Summer with a smaller (albeit still big) rebuild needed.

It's all on the board now, appoint the right man in charge and get to work ASAP!
Click to expand...
I think thats a decent post but I would keep Keshi and Trybull assuming they pass medicals...theres plenty more I would ditch though..namely Apter Holmes Tharme Thompson and Beesley some hopefully for a small fee. I am also worried we will lose most of Marv Yates Thorniley Dougall Dale and Nelson.
 
Danny Ocean said:
I think Dougall is on his way, reading behind the lines on social media I think he was expecting to leave in January

he wasn't rated by Appleton from the start of the season, and I only think he was saved by Appleton going and being replaced

by MM plus Bridcutt being announced as out for the season. The big problem is that some of the players under contract such as Yates, Ekpiteta

will want to maximize their earning potential and career prospects and may want to move if we get relegated, I know that we can force them to

stay but if decent offers come in they will be sold.

With a smaller squad in league one, all the injury-prone players will be released, and unfortunately Madine. It will be a lot more difficult

then if it happened last season, we are going to lose half of the team that Dobbie is playing, last season towards the end there was only a couple

of players on loan in the team. There will also be a couple of surprises and I expect we will lose a couple of players that we will be expecting to

keep, Lyons will be on a lot of clubs' radars now.
Click to expand...
Please. Learn paragraphs.
 
I will wait until Friday night and then again the 8th May if we win on Friday as that will make a massive difference. The likelihood will be will get relegated so if we do it is all speculation until the release list is announced and the players like Dale & James who may be sold to the clubs they are currently with. It's if's and maybes about the likes of Thorniley and players like Yates, Marv, Jerry could be in demand by other clubs.

Whatever happens we will need a good number of new players in and we will soon know, as the summer progresses how things look.
 
The hell with clear outs and rebuilds we need to retain all the players we possibly can. Players like CJ and Carey are more than capable for L1 and then some. Losing Yates would be a massive blow of course but probably inevitable. There's not one I'd get rid off bar the sick notes but deffo not Keshi.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If we have any designs on promotion and subsequently establishing ourselves in the Championship, then that's going to require a complete overhaul of the squad... If not immediately, then it needs to be planned.

Out of the players mentioned in the OP, I think there's probably only Yates, Ekpiteta, Gabriel abd maybe Lyons who I would consider capable of a regular First Team place at Championship Level... To that extent, you've got to be planning to improve on them over the course of this season really.

Hamilton (Squad Player, will be Ok in L1)
Dale (Seemed a bit lightweight, though decent L1 Player)
Trybull (Best years behind him - Injury issues)
Carey (Make or Break season for him IMO)
Dougall (I suspect he'll be off),,
Thompson (Another who needs to prove himself capable)
Connolly (Not Championship standard)
Ekpiteta (Struggled this season, but hopefully can regain form - Pretty useless when trying to play out from back though)
Lyons (Needs to improve defensively / positionally - decent prospect though)
Grimshaw (too small and not physically up to Championship standard)
Casey (not good enough)
Husband (Squad Player)
James (will probably leave)
Apter (Unknown quantity really)
Lavery (Not good enough)
Click to expand...
Lavery will be a fantastic player for us in league one with a big striker alongside him, beesley could work if he can stay fit but a good striker such as madine 10 years ago bought with the Jerry money would do for me
 
Who we’ve got under contract for next year and who’ll actually be at the club are very different things.
Jerry sadly for us is going to have a decent offer coming in for him and we’ll more than likely have to accept it.
Given all the talk around Grimshaw I think he might want out.

Of the returning loans who would we realistically want? Dale maybe, Tharme Maybe.
Virtue’s injury problems rule him out we’ve got to move away from the injury prone players. Casey looked shocking in that game Forest Green played live on Sky.

Thorniley will be gone as I get the impresses had more than enough being passed from pillar to post and I don’t think Keshi will be resigned, injury prone again.

Ironically Ekipeta’s injuries may mean he stays with us another year or two.

Dougall’s looked a long way off his best last time we were in League One, with Trybull and Connolly here will the club activate his one year option (if I’m right I’m thinking that’s what he’s in)

Lavery has never looked right since that injury against Rovers last season. If I were in charge I wouldn’t activate that option. Beesley massive injury problem this year (who hasn’t).

Personally I’d like to see Holmes a chance he has shades of Rooney to me big powerful and looks like he just doesn’t give a fuck excuse my French and goes for it. Apter looks extremely talented.

Thompson looks clueless to me and I wouldn’t be surprised if the club offload him. Hamilton as well, one attribute (speed) masks major deficiencies.

So right now we have a good base of a squad for League One in 6 months but the reality of summer will see us need about 8/9 players. Verging on a totally rebuild that.
 
All Halesowen Oyston said:
Who we’ve got under contract for next year and who’ll actually be at the club are very different things.
Jerry sadly for us is going to have a decent offer coming in for him and we’ll more than likely have to accept it.
Given all the talk around Grimshaw I think he might want out.

Of the returning loans who would we realistically want? Dale maybe, Tharme Maybe.
Virtue’s injury problems rule him out we’ve got to move away from the injury prone players. Casey looked shocking in that game Forest Green played live on Sky.

Thorniley will be gone as I get the impresses had more than enough being passed from pillar to post and I don’t think Keshi will be resigned, injury prone again.

Ironically Ekipeta’s injuries may mean he stays with us another year or two.

Dougall’s looked a long way off his best last time we were in League One, with Trybull and Connolly here will the club activate his one year option (if I’m right I’m thinking that’s what he’s in)

Lavery has never looked right since that injury against Rovers last season. If I were in charge I wouldn’t activate that option. Beesley massive injury problem this year (who hasn’t).

Personally I’d like to see Holmes a chance he has shades of Rooney to me big powerful and looks like he just doesn’t give a fuck excuse my French and goes for it. Apter looks extremely talented.

Thompson looks clueless to me and I wouldn’t be surprised if the club offload him. Hamilton as well, one attribute (speed) masks major deficiencies.

So right now we have a good base of a squad for League One in 6 months but the reality of summer will see us need about 8/9 players. Verging on a totally rebuild that.
Click to expand...
Crikey my auto correct had a field day with that comment. Can you alter this after you’ve written it?
 
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