Its about time our government did something

20togo said:
Have I said anything even remotely like that in any of my posts? Deflection once again.
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No. As I said that was the op.

To be fair on the other thread you’ve attempted to take a balanced view to date (although with a pronounced pro Israel lean) which was why I was surprised to find you were aligning yourself with someone who clearly wasn’t sitting on the fence.
 
Wizaard said:
So long as you burn your St George's Cross or Union flag at the end you'll be OK.

People are being jailed for being English...
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People are being arrested for certain types of protest.

Protesters over covid, arrested.
Protesters calling for a Jihad, carefully watched from a distance.
People brandishing the English flag, arrested/ told to remove flag so as not to incite racism🤦
People brandishing the Palestinian flag, carefully watched from a distance.

Remarkable double standards from His majesties police force.
 
Wizzerboy said:
People are being arrested for certain types of protest.

Protesters over covid, arrested.
Protesters calling for a Jihad, carefully watched from a distance.
People brandishing the English flag, arrested/ told to remove flag so as not to incite racism🤦
People brandishing the Palestinian flag, carefully watched from a distance.

Remarkable double standards from His majesties police force.
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Absolutely ...

Bang on
 
20togo said:
and see my previous reply. Basically, I've simply stated that march in London contained thousands of people who were chanting anti semitic slogans. Now was that the case or not?
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Well, as I’ve already said, I can see why a lot of people would argue that “From the river to the sea Palestine will be free” is calling for the end of Israel and is therefore anti Zionist. Equally though there are people who would argue it’s simply a call for a Palestinian state.

For anti semitic chants though there are far worse such as the disgusting “Jew will not replace us” favoured by White Supremacists, neo Nazis and sundry RWNJs.

But talking of distraction - which is what I suspect you’re up to actually - the protests were calling for a ceasefire. Now people may not want to take a position on that principle, and are instead playing the anti semitic chant card instead, but do you agree with the idea? Or are you happy for the IDF offensive to continue?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
No. As I said that was the op.

To be fair on the other thread you’ve attempted to take a balanced view to date (although with a pronounced pro Israel lean) which was why I was surprised to find you were aligning yourself with someone who clearly wasn’t sitting on the fence.
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i've aligned myself with myself. The o/p made a comment about the march in London spreading hate. And if thousands of marchers were chanting that anti-semitic song/slogan then that is what they were doing.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Why on earth would I sit on a fence, the terrorists who rule the Gaza Strip certainly weren't sitting on any fence when they were raping and murdering babies
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Because other innocent people, including children and babies, are being killed IDF bombs and artillery shells as I type.

As has been said repeatedly, you don’t have to take a side in this. It’s perfectly possible to condemn Hamas murders and atrocities and also condemn Israeli retaliation, which many, many people now regard as war crimes.

I know you’ve picked your side and are seemingly happy to see any number of Palestinian dead. Many other people though haven’t and won’t. That doesn’t mean they support Hamas in any way shape or form. No matter how hard some people try to twist the truth.
 
20togo said:
i've aligned myself with myself. The o/p made a comment about the march in London spreading hate. And if thousands of marchers were chanting that anti-semitic song/slogan then that is what they were doing.
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So do you support a ceasefire? Or are you happy for the IDF offensive to continue?
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Anybody who actually thinks its just a call for a Palestinian state is a thick **

As for your second paragraph nobody is on about that chant or defending it, so I've no idea why you would even mention it

Oh and I'm more than happy for the offensive to continue, Hamas need to surrender and all the hostages released, there is no other way as Hamas have made it clear they dont want any 2 state solution or ceasefire

Fcuk em ...

Anyway the thread is about London and the hate spreading that these marches are causing, I assume you are ok with that?
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I’m ok with calls for a ceasefire yes.
 
www.voice.wales

From The River To The Sea: The True History Of A Famous Slogan For Palestine -

Reading Time: 8 minutes The size and spirit of recent Palestine solidarity demonstrations across Britain has shocked our rulers and sent them into a frenzy. The air is thick with calls to ban such demonstrations, or crack down on their slogans and chant. Adam Johannes looks at the history of...
www.voice.wales www.voice.wales

Here’s a different perspective from Wales.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Well, as I’ve already said, I can see why a lot of people would argue that “From the river to the sea Palestine will be free” is calling for the end of Israel and is therefore anti Zionist. Equally though there are people who would argue it’s simply a call for a Palestinian state.

For anti semitic chants though there are far worse such as the disgusting “Jew will not replace us” favoured by White Supremacists, neo Nazis and sundry RWNJs.

But talking of distraction - which is what I suspect you’re up to actually - the protests were calling for a ceasefire. Now people may not want to take a position on that principle, and are instead playing the anti semitic chant card instead, but do you agree with the idea? Or are you happy for the IDF offensive to continue?
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I made my views pretty clear on the war again thread. And that was that Israel cannot show a sign of weakness and needed to adopt a heavy handed approach. Which they've certainly done. I also stated that i believed their could be a more sinister plan afoot which would be to drive everyone out of Gaza into Egypt never to return. All in the name of security. I think I condemned that although the longer this war continues it seems more feasible that is their aim.

If a ceasefire happens then of course that's good even it's only a temporary respite. But for what purpose is this ceasefire and what does it entail? Israel said there was no humanitarian crisis happening in Gaza and whilst that is clearly untrue I find it somewhat ironic [poor choice of word] that we've witnessed pictures of Gazan citizens breaking into warehouses to take the vast quantities of foodstuffs that were stored there! So were Hamas guarding it for their own fighting staff. Why wasn't it get to the people who needed it? Were Israel right to be worried and concerned that it was getting into the wrong hands? Maybe so. And do you expect Egypt to opens it's borders to allow hundreds of thousands of palestinians to cross over the border maybe including tens of thousands of hamas fighters? in other words i don't think i's so cut and dried as people seem to think it should be.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I’m not in favour of minorities being intimidated.

Or bombed.
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Section removed, foul language.

3 million Muslims in the UK and around 300,000 Jews most of which are are too scared to leave their houses or take their kids to school

You happy with that?

A simple yes or no will do
 
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20togo said:
I made my views pretty clear on the war again thread. And that was that Israel cannot show a sign of weakness and needed to adopt a heavy handed approach. Which they've certainly done. I also stated that i believed their could be a more sinister plan afoot which would be to drive everyone out of Gaza into Egypt never to return. All in the name of security. I think I condemned that although the longer this war continues it seems more feasible that is their aim.

If a ceasefire happens then of course that's good even it's only a temporary respite. But for what purpose is this ceasefire and what does it entail? Israel said there was no humanitarian crisis happening in Gaza and whilst that is clearly untrue I find it somewhat ironic [poor choice of word] that we've witnessed pictures of Gazan citizens breaking into warehouses to take the vast quantities of foodstuffs that were stored there! So were Hamas guarding it for their own fighting staff. Why wasn't it get to the people who needed it? Were Israel right to be worried and concerned that it was getting into the wrong hands? Maybe so. And do you expect Egypt to opens it's borders to allow hundreds of thousands of palestinians to cross over the border maybe including tens of thousands of hamas fighters? in other words i don't think i's so cut and dried as people seem to think it should be.
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A ceasefire is certainly not a permanent solution I agree. The purpose is just to save lives in the immediate future. A peaceful resolution (if there is one) would require a fundamental shift in thinking from Israel, the Palestinians, the West, and the Middle East generally. As I’ve said elsewhere I really am not confident that’s possible given all the bad actors involved and the entrenched positions that have been adopted

The tragedy is that it didn’t need to have been this way. Rabin, probably the greatest PM Israel ever had, was edging the region towards a settlement. And then he was assassinated by a right wing Zionist.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Silence from Mexboroseasider

You ran out of gin?

It can't be that hard to type in YES or NO
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If you’d read my posts carefully you’d have seen I’d pointed out there wasn’t a consensus about whether the chant you’re bothered about was anti semitic at all. Just because you (and Suella Braverman) claim it is, doesn’t make it so.

Many of your Welsh compatriots take a similar view of you read the link I posted.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
If you’d read my posts carefully you’d have seen I’d pointed out there wasn’t a consensus about whether the chant you’re bothered about was anti semitic at all. Just because you (and Suella Braverman) claim it is, doesn’t make it so.

Many of your Welsh compatriots take a similar view of you read the link I posted.
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So Yes or No then?
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
removed.
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I know it’s difficult for you. But will you please stop lying.

Nowhere on this board have I defended or supported terrorism. Quite the reverse. I’ve said repeatedly there should be a humanitarian ceasefire to save lives and that’s what the London protests were calling for. Why anyone would want the slaughter to continue is beyond me.

Apart from that I agree there’s little point continuing the debate with you.
 
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Mexboroseasider said:
Well, as I’ve already said, I can see why a lot of people would argue that “From the river to the sea Palestine will be free” is calling for the end of Israel and is therefore anti Zionist. Equally though there are people who would argue it’s simply a call for a Palestinian state.

For anti semitic chants though there are far worse such as the disgusting “Jew will not replace us” favoured by White Supremacists, neo Nazis and sundry RWNJs.

But talking of distraction - which is what I suspect you’re up to actually - the protests were calling for a ceasefire. Now people may not want to take a position on that principle, and are instead playing the anti semitic chant card instead, but do you agree with the idea? Or are you happy for the IDF offensive to continue?
Click to expand...
You're right. That chant can be and is interpreted in two ways. Something one or two on here either don't know or seem to ignore.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Because other innocent people, including children and babies, are being killed IDF bombs and artillery shells as I type.

As has been said repeatedly, you don’t have to take a side in this. It’s perfectly possible to condemn Hamas murders and atrocities and also condemn Israeli retaliation, which many, many people now regard as war crimes.

I know you’ve picked your side and are seemingly happy to see any number of Palestinian dead. Many other people though haven’t and won’t. That doesn’t mean they support Hamas in any way shape or form. No matter how hard some people try to twist the truth.
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The voice of reason in the wilderness.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Anybody who actually thinks its just a call for a Palestinian state is a thick **

As for your second paragraph nobody is on about that chant or defending it, so I've no idea why you would even mention it as its completely irrelevant to the topic

Oh and I'm more than happy for the offensive to continue, Hamas need to surrender and all the hostages released, there is no other way as Hamas have made it clear they dont want any 2 state solution or ceasefire

Fcuk em ...

Anyway the thread is about London and the hate spreading that these marches are causing, I assume you are ok with that?
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A thick **, wow!
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
So you are in denial then, of course its anti semitic

It calls for the establishment of a State of Palestine from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, erasing the State of Israel and its people. It is also a rallying cry for terrorist groups and their sympathisers

And it appears you are one of these terrorist sympathisers

Good night I really dont want to debate with someone who can't answer a simple question and who defends and supports terrorism
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Phil, what do you make of Netanyahu showing a map of Israel to the UN recently which didn't show either the West Bank or Gaza. That map was literally from the river to the sea. Do you agree? A simple yes or no will do.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
So you are in denial then, of course its anti semitic

It calls for the establishment of a State of Palestine from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, erasing the State of Israel and its people. It is also a rallying cry for terrorist groups and their sympathisers

And it appears you are one of these terrorist sympathisers

Good night I really dont want to debate with someone who can't answer a simple question and who defends and supports terrorism
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Just to correct my post below... Netanyahu's map showed The West Bank and Gaza as part of Israel.
 
Brazil said:
You're right. That chant can be and is interpreted in two ways. Something one or two on here either don't know or seem to ignore.
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What you're ignoring is that the chant can be interpreted in the way we think it is meant, which is to say "no more Jews in Palestine", and in the aftermath of mass murder, that's a very reasonable interpretation.

Assuming that you think otherwise, what do you think Khaybar, Khaybar, Ya Yahud, jaish Muhammad soufa ya’ou (Khaybar Khaybar oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return) means?
 
Brazil said:
Phil, what do you make of Netanyahu showing a map of Israel to the UN recently which didn't show either the West Bank or Gaza. That map was literally from the river to the sea. Do you agree? A simple yes or no will do.
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what you conveniently want to ignore is that the nation of Israel is already there. So are you against the nation of Israel being where it is? A simple yes or no will do.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Why were you not so vocal when this was happening? I've searched the forum so apologies if I missed it...

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It wasn't an anti Muslim march mate it was anti extremists and terrorists and to be honest I would have thought most people would be anti extremist given this was just after children got blown up at a pop concert in Manchester
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
About all these protests on the streets of London spreading hate in our capital city

Every weekend since October 7th it's been gong on

Get the troops on the streets and disperse these terrorist sympathisers before it really kicks off

Well done to the football lads defending the Cenotaph btwHaving got caught up in the demonstration a weekend ago I can reassure citizens who haven’t witnessed thesefirsthand
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1. They were largely family participants - kids, parents, grandparents etc huge numbers

2. The atmosphere was calm and controlled

3. There was genuine resigned sadness on the faces of all I saw at the situation (war)

4. No-one hated anyone - they just seemed to have one objective - end to war, ceasefire & dialogue - the recognised the situation was complex

5. The Peace March was less significant than the gatherings (several)

6. There was no hate of any visual or audible description and Hammas was never even muttered

7. The policing was low key, pretty effective and uncontentious

Please bear in mind there were thousands of participants and normal weekend stuff went on too eg shopping etc

That’s the reality - it seems people just want to dream what happened
 
Ps Fleetwood fans will be ‘defending’ their pubs and businesses on Weds in the same style as the cenotaph btw

Whatever happens and just like in London we need no trouble
 
20togo said:
what you conveniently want to ignore is that the nation of Israel is already there. So are you against the nation of Israel being where it is? A simple yes or no will do.
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I don´t conveniently ignore anything. I´m not against the nation-state of Israel being where it is. However , the map that Netanyahu showed the UN was an Israel which didn´t show either the Palestinian territories or Gaza. Israel has a right to exist, of course, but not at the expense of millions of Palestinians who have been rendered stateless and, increasingly, landless for decades.
 
Lost Seasider said:
What you're ignoring is that the chant can be interpreted in the way we think it is meant, which is to say "no more Jews in Palestine", and in the aftermath of mass murder, that's a very reasonable interpretation.

Assuming that you think otherwise, what do you think Khaybar, Khaybar, Ya Yahud, jaish Muhammad soufa ya’ou (Khaybar Khaybar oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return) means?
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I´m not ignoring it. Anyway, from the river to the sea is what Netanyahu envisages for Israel, as shown on his map of the `` new`` Middle East.
 
Brazil said:
Just answer the question about Netanyahu´s map.
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I haven't seen it and to be frank the thread is about thousands of anti Israeli protesters marching on the streets of our capital city every weekend,

It's not a geography assignment

I remember you anyway, always defending terrorists
 
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Brazil said:
I don´t conveniently ignore anything. I´m not against the nation-state of Israel being where it is. However , the map that Netanyahu showed the UN was an Israel which didn´t show either the Palestinian territories or Gaza. Israel has a right to exist, of course, but not at the expense of millions of Palestinians who have been rendered stateless and, increasingly, landless for decades.
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but you stated the chant can be interpreted in two ways. So if you believe Israel has the right to be where it is, what specifically is the other way apart from wiping Israel of the face of the earth. You need to accept that as long as Hamas are a force in the middle east then it's perfectly clear what their aims are. Palestinians have as much right to exist too but not at the expense of the ethnic cleansing of the Jews in Israel which is the aim of Hamas. As Lost pointed out to you inhist post #79 to which you have not replied, how do you interpret those words to have any other meaning other than to destroy Israel?
 
Israeli hardcore settlers are already driving Palestinian shepherds out from their hill villages in the West Bank territory by violence, intimidation and stealing or killing their sheep and goats, while moving onto the land with their own flocks. The Israeli army just stands by and watches.

When the Palestinians flee a village it is then systematically wrecked by the Israeli settlers to prevent them returning. If that is not ongoing ethnic cleansing I do not know what is.
 
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Archibald Knox said:
Israeli hardcore settlers are already driving Palestinian shepherds out from their hill villages in the West Bank territory by violence, intimidation and killing their sheep, while moving onto the land with their own flocks.

When the Palestinians flee a village it is then systematically wrecked by the Israeli settlers to prevent them returning. If that is not ongoing ethnic cleansing I do not know what is.
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...and that is an issue the Israeli gov't needs to address and do something about.
 
20togo said:
...and that is an issue the Israeli gov't needs to address and do something about.
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But whereas a few previous Israeli governments have taken steps to remove settlements, the current government seems to be encouraging the intimidation and displacement.

Edit to add - this is just since 7 October. The displacement was going on long before then.

thehill.com

US says Netanyahu has to rein in ‘extremist’ settlers in West Bank

The United States is warning Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to rein in “extremist” settlers in the West Bank in the wake of reports of violence against Palestinians. “We…
thehill.com
 
The censoring and moderation on this thread is awful. Considering I've read pre-moderation, it's extremely poor.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I haven't seen it and to be frank the thread is about thousands of anti Israeli protesters marching on the streets of our capital city every weekend,

It's not a geography assignment

I remember you anyway, always defending terrorists
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Haha! You do talk some ignorant tripe. I'll treat your comment with the contempt it deserves.
 
20togo said:
but you stated the chant can be interpreted in two ways. So if you believe Israel has the right to be where it is, what specifically is the other way apart from wiping Israel of the face of the earth. You need to accept that as long as Hamas are a force in the middle east then it's perfectly clear what their aims are. Palestinians have as much right to exist too but not at the expense of the ethnic cleansing of the Jews in Israel which is the aim of Hamas. As Lost pointed out to you inhist post #79 to which you have not replied, how do you interpret those words to have any other meaning other than to destroy Israel?
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Simple: the chant can be interpreted either as the Palestinians having their own country ( which is possible together with an Israeli state ) or a call for the complete destruction of Israel. I don't agree with the second. I'm simply saying there are 2 possible and accepted interpretations, that's all.

Do you think the Palestinian people have as much right to their own free country as the Israelis do? Because I do. I am against violence of any description, especially against innocent people, it's abhorrent and inhuman.

Just one more point about the term " terrorists". You may remember Menachim Begin who became Israeli PM, and a respected one. He ( and others) was proscribed as a terrorist by the British Government while fighting for independence for Israel. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. 'Twas ever thus and probably always will be.
I abhor violence wherever it comes from.
 
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