Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
I love agenda driven posts 
Name a single player Critchley has developed
- Thread starter Superbretty
- Start date
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Your username has met its antithesis.
A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
2 away wins all season and that's not to mention the lack of creativity and the boring football. Granted, it's different and the only reason Critchley isn't under more pressure.
If we had a lad in the youth who was 16 when Critchley arrived and now playing for the first team, there'd be a reasonable argument that Critchley inherited him.
Give the time span since the start of his first spell, it would be impossible to benchmark him using 'youth system graduates to the first team'.
It also ultimately a team effort all the day through the age brackets. Critchley is more likely to appoint the coach who devlelops the youth players the most, rather thsn him doing it directly.
Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
Hope you're not going today as I'll miss your erudite armchair musings
Critchley isn't under any pressure
Albert Ross
Well-known member
Perhaps the penny finally dropped that it wasnât working.
Albert Ross
Well-known member
We arenât Liverpool or Citeh etc. You have to cut your suit according to your cloth. If our players had the same skill level as the prem they wouldnât be here. Theyâre in League One for a reason.
voyeur
Well-known member
Cinically?
You have been removed from your forum grammar and spelling duties.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
One mistake. One bloody mistake! You're just a cynic Voy.Cinically?
You have been removed from your forum grammar and spelling duties.
TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
Clearly there are different opinions on Critchley's effectiveness. If people are going to name players who did well for us as having improved because of Critchley then its only fair to point out plenty that have not worked out. Rightly or wrongly youth has never been given a chance under Neil Critchley and I believe everyone expected an influx of quality young player (certainly some from Liverpool) and it never really happened apart from Josh Bowler who was already a quality player having gone for ÂŁ4 million plus as a teenager.
For balance here is a list of players who it can be argued have gone backwards under Critchley
Dom Thompson (gone totally backwards)
Doug Tharme (never given a chance)
Jordan Gabriel (never given a chance to oust Turton)
Andy Lyons (much better last season)
Brad Holmes(nowhere near the first team
Rob Apter(never given a chance with us)
Jensen Weir(went backwards under Critchley)
Jordan Thorniley (his face didnt fit)
Shane Lavery (dropped every time he scored)
Jerry Yates(regularly rotated which has to affect confidence)
Sonny Carey (not improving as expected)
Reece James (face didnt fit here)
Cameron Antwi (didnt improve)
Charlie Kirk (very average ay best)
Ethan Robson (shocking)
Demi Mitchell (never improved)
Daniel Grettarson (face didnt fit)
Michael Nottingham (went backwards)
MJ Williams (shocking)
Ben Woodburn(awful for us)
Joe Nuttall(went backwards)
Oliver Sarkic (went backwards)
There are others Im sure. I have no agenda against the manager and hope he turns things around but regarding his ability to coach the best out of players then the jury is out. There are a few success stories but not that many. We should be kicking on towards the play offs now and if we do miss out then this season has been a failure. Do we then give him another window and the first half of next season to turn it around or do we cut the cord.
For balance here is a list of players who it can be argued have gone backwards under Critchley
Dom Thompson (gone totally backwards)
Doug Tharme (never given a chance)
Jordan Gabriel (never given a chance to oust Turton)
Andy Lyons (much better last season)
Brad Holmes(nowhere near the first team
Rob Apter(never given a chance with us)
Jensen Weir(went backwards under Critchley)
Jordan Thorniley (his face didnt fit)
Shane Lavery (dropped every time he scored)
Jerry Yates(regularly rotated which has to affect confidence)
Sonny Carey (not improving as expected)
Reece James (face didnt fit here)
Cameron Antwi (didnt improve)
Charlie Kirk (very average ay best)
Ethan Robson (shocking)
Demi Mitchell (never improved)
Daniel Grettarson (face didnt fit)
Michael Nottingham (went backwards)
MJ Williams (shocking)
Ben Woodburn(awful for us)
Joe Nuttall(went backwards)
Oliver Sarkic (went backwards)
There are others Im sure. I have no agenda against the manager and hope he turns things around but regarding his ability to coach the best out of players then the jury is out. There are a few success stories but not that many. We should be kicking on towards the play offs now and if we do miss out then this season has been a failure. Do we then give him another window and the first half of next season to turn it around or do we cut the cord.
A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
Yes going. Kids team just FC Polish 8-0 at Stanley Park. Quick bite to eat and off to Bloomfield.
Fatboy
Well-known member
Sold to the Mighty Grimsby !
When you say went backwards or never given a chance would it not be right to say they weren't good enough in the manager's eyes that's how i see it and think of those players
Wilburrabbit
Well-known member
Dale
Which block do you sit in?
20togo
Well-known member
you'd have a valid point and maybe it still is but how many of those players in TTP's list did he actually bring here/sign himself? A good few of them so did he judge them wrongly?
A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
A Block leading the troops.
Albert Ross
Well-known member
Undisclosed fee, anything between a fiver and a few grand.
Fair point yourself and yes probably he/club saw potential but you can never really tell how things are going to work out, i could compare it to academies across the country where clubs sign as many kids as they can and give them and their parents false hope, but all the club wants is just one to be good enough, that's why i won't get involved in kids football because it's all wrong, kids should be playing on a Saturday/ Sunday and with their mates on the field. The amount of adults i meet who say their lad is at so and so club is unbelievable and less than 1% make it. i just thought it was a good comparison.
TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
Yes I understand that but the point I am making is that just because a player is good for us does not mean that the manager has improved them....I have no doubts Critchley is a far better coach than Appleton or McCarthy but I dont buy into the argument that Critchley is a great developer of players and the way he views the youth and restricts their opportunities with the first team supports my theory.
Chunkylad
Well-known member
Well he has a record of success in wins v loses as a Pool manager and a promotion.
So either Sadler has spent serious money on players and bought in complete and talented players with the massive money he has spent or Critch has developed players with potential to become a reality.
As many posters on Avftt keep saying Sadler needs to spend more etc then Iâm confused? Which one is it?
So either Sadler has spent serious money on players and bought in complete and talented players with the massive money he has spent or Critch has developed players with potential to become a reality.
As many posters on Avftt keep saying Sadler needs to spend more etc then Iâm confused? Which one is it?
Vince McLean
Well-known member
Did Critch spot and sign Morgan? If so ... Morgan.
I rate Norburn too - they might just be peaking at the right time.
I rate Norburn too - they might just be peaking at the right time.
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
Nonsense.
TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
Admittedly you do talk that a lot
TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
Morgan was very good today but he has still had more poor games than good games..I really hope he kicks on from here..Norburn is a very good player who has been carrying an injury and has not improved in his time here âŚyet
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
Dom Thompson (gone totally backwards)
-gone totally backwards under 3 managers.
Doug Tharme (never given a chance)
-taken from a student in non-league on an amateur contract and is now a professional footballer
Jordan Gabriel (never given a chance to oust Turton)
-taken from Forrestâs reserves and loans at a club now in National League North and turned into a very handy Championship WRB. Heâs been injured for 8 months too and is just getting back.
Andy Lyons (much better last season)
-Well documented personal issues. Hasnât had much football this season.
Brad Holmes(nowhere near the first team
-Critchley gave him his debut. More minutes under Critchley than anyone else. Also do you drop Rhodes or Dembele for the kid with no experience?
Rob Apter(never given a chance with us)
-Critchley also gave debut and more mins than anyone else. Heâs developing nicely at Tranmere so why ruin that.
Jensen Weir(went backwards under Critchley) - well he never showed what he did at Morecambe at Blackpool. Perhaps the step up was too much too soon.
Jordan Thorniley (his face didnt fit) - played OK but wasnât as good as Marv and Keogh.
Shane Lavery (dropped every time he scored) - brought from semi-pro league and turned into a regular Championship forward. Iâd hardly say heâs worthy of starting every game but his careers deffiniteky on the rise thanks to Critchley
Jerry Yates(regularly rotated which has to affect confidence)
League 2 and unwanted in Chanpionship to top Championship striker worth ÂŁ4 million
Sonny Carey (not improving as expected)
-part time non league player to regular championship stsrter
Reece James (face didnt fit here) - got rid of by Appleton
Cameron Antwi (didnt improve)
Absolutely did improve and got a move to another Championship ckub
Charlie Kirk (very average ay best) - Critch quite literally developed him from a child and took him to the Championship. If anything his career has stalled away from Critchley
Ethan Robson (shocking) - was bang average tbf but not all signings will work.
Demi Mitchell (never improved) - youâre right but his career got worse after leaving too.
Daniel Grettarson (face didnt fit) - possibly not cut out for football in the EFL but I thought he was decent - just unlucky to be in a team where Marv and Keogh were always gonna start. And he needed first team football for his international ambitions.
Michael Nottingham (went backwards) - wasnât good enough. Wasnât a Critchley signing.
MJ Williams (shocking) - was pretty poor tbf.
Ben Woodburn(awful for us) - that loan just didnât work out - lad ended up at PNE and they think heâs garbage too.
Joe Nuttall(went backwards) - wasnât very good. Critchley didnât sign him. Seems the signing was dodgy anyway.
Oliver Sarkic (went backwards) - didnât offer anything. Wanted to play first team football and got a move away to get it.
Apart from 2/3 (broken clock etc) your assessments in my opinion are miles off.
Marcusbeansontoast
Well-known member
Forgot about him, Iâd say heâs one of the few players it can be said Critchley definitely did improve, turned from a LB on trial into a winger who started the play off final, looked really dangerous at times. Was flying in pre season, think he scored in nearly every game then got injured. Bowler started the season and rest is history. Injuries really hampered him since but still got a decent move and club got a fee. His twitter isâŚinteresting. Lots of free time on his hands
20togo
Well-known member
I'm not gonna copy all of LA1's last post but he's clearly making things up! I'm a massive Yates fan but to say he's "League 2 and unwanted in Chanpionship to top Championship striker worth ÂŁ4 million" is just plain nonsense. He can't get in lower table Swanseas team and doesn't feature anywhere near in the top Championship strikers table.
There's a few others he's putting his own twist on it too.
There's a few others he's putting his own twist on it too.
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TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
The point I am making (and you are quite obviously missing) is that you simply cannot say that just because somebody plays well for us doesnât mean the manager has waved his magic wand and unleashed a coaching masterclass. Conversely just because a player doesnât work out doesnât mean that they have been coached badly.
The players almost all have the requisite talents and skills when we sign them(if they have been scouted correctly) and the manager simply has to develop their confidence and utilise them in a compatible formation.
That seems to be proving difficult for the manager and whilst he has a number of good attributes he really cannot include instilling confidence into every player and finding an effective system amongst them. His failure to develop our youth players has to be a concern given he was heralded as a coaching genius. He just doesnât seem to want to play them and presumably doesnât think they are good enough. More worryingly to me is his bizarre rotation system where Connolly, Husband, Rhodes and CJ play every single week and everyone else is rotated irrespective of performance. The classic example of this was the Lavery and Yates fiasco where they would score and then be dropped. Iâm convinced that badly affected both badly and their confidence was lost.
Anyway football is a game of opinions LA 1 and the f I agreed with you then we would both be wrong.
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
Just because you say âfailure to develop our youth playersâ doesnât make it true.
TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
Yeah that world renowned youth system we have is really bearing fruit
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
And thatâs Critchleys fault ?
clappers
Well-known member
The players might have just developed by playing as opposed to any real coaching input and development. Itâs always difficult to judge. Going back an age, did Billy Ayre develop Trevor as a player or was Trevor just needing an opportunity to play as early as possible in the first team to show what he naturally had? Dembele could be a similar situation. Although Trevor worships King Billy and he probably made him a harder player mentally.
You can only judge on slightly older playersâŚI think Critchley developed Turton for sure and also Embleton. I donât think heâs developed Grimshaw by not playing him and goalkeeping coaches do goalkeeper development.
Holloway transformed Charlie Adam from a fat bastard underperformed to a fat bastard king of midfield by letting him do a Jan Molby. Same with GTF, he developed him by playing him perfectly and allowing him to eat kebabs and drink beers whilst he was delivering the goods. Both had natural talent that Holloway had nowt to do with.
I think coach managers like Critchley anre more likely to over complicate and ruin players more often than they develop them unless they are working with kids.
TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
Not necessarily but if it were working then you would be the first to give HIM all the credit...you cant have it both ways. Truth is that he is a bang average manager and not a coaching genius who turns everyone he works with into a much better player. He has some good attributes but an awful lot of flaws and a stubbornness that holds us back at times.And thatâs Critchleys fault ?
TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
For the record I would rather keep Critchley than replace him with Dobbie as its better the devil you know...however there are a lot of better options out there if you can remove the caveat that they must have been at Bloomfield road before.
Camberwell1
Well-known member
Dom Thompson and Kenneth Dougall
There thatâs 2
There thatâs 2
JJpool
Well-known member
Not sure how it works with the recruitment team, or on an individual player basis. Some he may know some he may not but surely the team identify players through the process and go from there.
Either way all involved and he came with mixed reviews from Charlton.
Looking good for both the signing and the development side.
He's got a fantastic shot on him and is growing into his role more and more here.
He'd been there his whole career hadn't he? So sometimes also that move to reignite your career and prove yourself helps.
Wizaard
Well-known member
That analysis is complete shite. Totally disagree.
Always tangerine
Well-known member
Albie Morgan.
Always tangerine
Well-known member
Charlton fans seemed to think Morgan was only a squad player and some couldn't see why we signed him. Lets see if he can maintain his good form and continue to improve.
Oh let's have a think shall we superbretty, you know, just to try and understand your strange post a touch better.
Critchley is a manager of a professional football club, the mighty Tangerines. He was previously employed by Liverpool to develop some of the best talent in world football for the recent Premier League and European champions.
He takes training every day, working on systems and getting the best out of professional athletes.
But it's all bollocks, none of it is going in, let's go down the pub.
Of course he is ** developing players. Jesus...
Critchley is a manager of a professional football club, the mighty Tangerines. He was previously employed by Liverpool to develop some of the best talent in world football for the recent Premier League and European champions.
He takes training every day, working on systems and getting the best out of professional athletes.
But it's all bollocks, none of it is going in, let's go down the pub.
Of course he is ** developing players. Jesus...
I suspect they weren't the best of mates. Jerry hinted as much when he did his 'Neil Critchley....tactical genius' interview.
Such is life, you can't get on with everyone.
AmericanTangerine
Well-known member
People really forget just how bad our academy was (and still is) when Critchley came in.
He is a very good developer of players (we are seeing his work with Morgan and Casey specifically bear fruit this season), but it is unfair and short sided to criticize him for not playing more academy players when there simply are not many good players coming through the academy.
The best academy prospects that we've produced since 2010 have been Dom Telford (League 2 striker at best) and Mark Waddington (National League player at best) so do you really want him throwing players out who are likely worse than those two? No chance.
Apter is the best youth prospect we've had in a looooong time and he has greatly benefited from the short term work that Sadler and Ciaren Donnelly have put into the academy, where there is much more structure in place to guide and nourish his development.
When the training ground is built with space for academy development of players like Apter will only improve.
But right now we are simply not in a position to be able to pull players from the academy and give them first team minutes in the League like other clubs like Blackburn can, because our academy is not sufficient at the moment.
It takes time, our motto is "Progress", not "I want it right ** now".
He is a very good developer of players (we are seeing his work with Morgan and Casey specifically bear fruit this season), but it is unfair and short sided to criticize him for not playing more academy players when there simply are not many good players coming through the academy.
The best academy prospects that we've produced since 2010 have been Dom Telford (League 2 striker at best) and Mark Waddington (National League player at best) so do you really want him throwing players out who are likely worse than those two? No chance.
Apter is the best youth prospect we've had in a looooong time and he has greatly benefited from the short term work that Sadler and Ciaren Donnelly have put into the academy, where there is much more structure in place to guide and nourish his development.
When the training ground is built with space for academy development of players like Apter will only improve.
But right now we are simply not in a position to be able to pull players from the academy and give them first team minutes in the League like other clubs like Blackburn can, because our academy is not sufficient at the moment.
It takes time, our motto is "Progress", not "I want it right ** now".
Chunkylad
Well-known member
Morgan was signed as a number 10 or wide striker from Charlton. Itâs also where he started playing for us at the start of the season - in the position that both Carey and later Dembele played.
Critch has moved him back into a more standard central midfield role alongside Norburn. He takes the ball of the centre backs and builds play (ignoring that pass versus Forest). Heâs not yet perfected it like Charlie Adam did for us, but Iâd say yes, heâs another one that has developed his game under Critchley.
Oh just thought of another too. Dujon Sterling. Look how his game improved as the season progressed.
Critch has moved him back into a more standard central midfield role alongside Norburn. He takes the ball of the centre backs and builds play (ignoring that pass versus Forest). Heâs not yet perfected it like Charlie Adam did for us, but Iâd say yes, heâs another one that has developed his game under Critchley.
Oh just thought of another too. Dujon Sterling. Look how his game improved as the season progressed.