Outbreak - the virus that shocked the world

TangerineBayern said:
But it did start there but proving it is the difficult thi
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RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I see on the news the Chinese are saying the virus came from somewhere else. Like I said, you’ll never get to the truth
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Been about a while Rusty, a Italian Doctor last week swears it was in Milan in September or October, he was convinced the origin was from China though. All guesswork, let’s wait and see what WHO come up with, I’ll not hold my breath as according to Taiwan they expressed concern to the WHO in December and they never acknowledged it.
 
hertfordseasider said:
To be fair, China was where it came from it has crippled the world, millions f deaths and nothing has been done to make them accountable.
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A fair post that I doubt anybody will argue with.

Why make a quick one line response perfectly summarising things when we can have a big cat fight ?
 
China were guilty of not giving the world the information it needed in January. For that it deserves an awful lot of criticism. It's wet markets look a disgrace as well.
What they can't be blamed for however is the response of the UK, America and Brazil for example once it was clear what was going to happen without stringent measures. They hardly got off lightly.
 
southshorepool said:
China were guilty of not giving the world the information it needed in January. For that it deserves an awful lot of criticism. It's wet markets look a disgrace as well.
What they can't be blamed for however is the response of the UK, America and Brazil for example once it was clear what was going to happen without stringent measures. They hardly got off lightly.
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Taiwan are next door, but by implementing strict lockdown straight away, they haven't been impacted the same. Meanwhile, a year on we're thinking about bringing in some travel bans...
 
Wizaard said:
Taiwan are next door, but by implementing strict lockdown straight away, they haven't been impacted the same. Meanwhile, a year on we're thinking about bringing in some travel bans...
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But who is to blame for unleashing the virus on the world? Is it China in your opinion? Or is it the British government? Or is it somebody else? I take it you've watched the programme?
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
But who is to blame for unleashing the virus on the world? Is it China in your opinion? Or is it the British government? Or is it somebody else? I take it you've watched the programme?
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It started in China, they didn't respond as they should have in terms of reporting it, and we've exacerbated it by making a complete horlicks of our response and continue to do so.

If it makes you feel better, it's all China's fault, as Donald would say.

If you think that exculpates our Government for what happens here, then there's no hope of a reasonable discussion. In so many ways, we have failed to act to protect our citizens at the right time. That's unacceptable when a Government's first priority should be the safety of it's people.

As 20s has said many times, what's done is done and there's no point in looking back, unless it's blaming China for everything apparently
 
southshorepool said:
China were guilty of not giving the world the information it needed in January. For that it deserves an awful lot of criticism. It's wet markets look a disgrace as well.
What they can't be blamed for however is the response of the UK, America and Brazil for example once it was clear what was going to happen without stringent measures. They hardly got off lightly.
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I get that but are the the govt totally to blame or is it not reasonable to lay a lot of the blame at joe public? It's not rocket science to know this virus is killing people but still thousands or even millions of people have a total disregard for what is happening. BLM protests being just one big example added to the fact that it is happening every day too. We and the rest of the western world are not China and rightly or wrongly in this case people have a voice and pretty much unless you bring in martial law you are never gonna get the lockdown that China imposed in Wuhan.
 
Wizaard said:
It started in China, they didn't respond as they should have in terms of reporting it, and we've exacerbated it by making a complete horlicks of our response and continue to do so.

If it makes you feel better, it's all China's fault, as Donald would say.

If you think that exculpates our Government for what happens here, then there's no hope of a reasonable discussion. In so many ways, we have failed to act to protect our citizens at the right time. That's unacceptable when a Government's first priority should be the safety of it's people.

As 20s has said many times, what's done is done and there's no point in looking back, unless it's blaming China for everything apparently
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There you go Wiz with your flippant remark. A quick understated remark re China and then it's back to your usual let's bash the govt for everything.
Why is it that it's your pov that is right and unless people agree with you there is no hope of a reasonable discussion. Just a thought but maybe it's your pov that stops reasonable discussion.
 
Wizaard said:
It started in China, they didn't respond as they should have in terms of reporting it, and we've exacerbated it by making a complete horlicks of our response and continue to do so.

If it makes you feel better, it's all China's fault, as Donald would say.

If you think that exculpates our Government for what happens here, then there's no hope of a reasonable discussion. In so many ways, we have failed to act to protect our citizens at the right time. That's unacceptable when a Government's first priority should be the safety of it's people.

As 20s has said many times, what's done is done and there's no point in looking back, unless it's blaming China for everything apparently
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I totally agree with you that it's China's fault. They unleashed this virus so I just can't see how anyone else is to blame. And you're quite right, what's done is done and there's no point in looking back.
You might want to try following 20's advice on Brexit. What's done is done.
 
20togo said:
There you go Wiz with your flippant remark. A quick understated remark re China and then it's back to your usual let's bash the govt for everything.
Why is it that it's your pov that is right and unless people agree with you there is no hope of a reasonable discussion. Just a thought but maybe it's your pov that stops reasonable discussion.
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Who is responsible for what happens in this country? The Chinese?

No one is responsible for the deaths in this country apart from the Government and their failure to handle the crisis.

Feel free to explain why the Chinese Government are in charge of our borders, our health policies and our procurement plans.
 
Wizaard said:
Who is responsible for what happens in this country? The Chinese?

No one is responsible for the deaths in this country apart from the Government and their failure to handle the crisis.

Feel free to explain why the Chinese Government are in charge of our borders, our health policies and our procurement plans.
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So the government are responsible for every death?
 
Wizaard said:
Who is responsible for what happens in this country? The Chinese?

No one is responsible for the deaths in this country apart from the Government and their failure to handle the crisis.

Feel free to explain why the Chinese Government are in charge of our borders, our health policies and our procurement plans.
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Wiz

We can discuss/debate how are Government has handled the whole virus thing forever and a day and I am sure we will do.

We will all have our views on what the Government has done well and what it hasn't done well, it is very unlikely that we will all agree on matters and there is no exact correct answer.

What I think we can all agree on is that dealing with the virus will put a strain on our resources and that the Government must employ it's limited resources effectively as possible.

Again, I appreciate that we will all have our own views on how the Government ensures that resources are employed as effectively as possible but surely that we are having to discuss/debate how best our Government deals with things is a direct result of the failings of the Chinese ?


PS - I think 20's and yourself are both great posters who just happen to hold different opinions on a few things.
 
Wizaard said:
Who is responsible for what happens in this country? The Chinese?

No one is responsible for the deaths in this country apart from the Government and their failure to handle the crisis.

Feel free to explain why the Chinese Government are in charge of our borders, our health policies and our procurement plans.
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Tosh. This disease got here and it started in China. China were late to inform the world and it was spread over the globe. Italy and other nations shut their borders earlier than us, that is true, went into lock down earlier than us too, but the disease was already here. It didn't stop thousands of deaths in their country did it? What part of that don't you understand? We went into lockdown to slow down the spread, to help the nhs, but we come out of it and it starts to spread again. Why? Because the disease is already here!

It was already here Wiz, and that's because China failed to act properly, tried to cover it up with lies and deceit and even only yesterday were denying it.
 
20togo said:
Tosh. This disease got here and it started in China. China were late to inform the world and it was spread over the globe. Italy and other nations shut their borders earlier than us, that is true, went into lock down earlier than us too, but the disease was already here. It didn't stop thousands of deaths in their country did it? What part of that don't you understand? We went into lockdown to slow down the spread, to help the nhs, but we come out of it and it starts to spread again. Why? Because the disease is already here!

It was already here Wiz, and that's because China failed to act properly, tried to cover it up with lies and deceit and even only yesterday were denying it.
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In which case, there has been no need to do anything, according to you. Completely powerless and it's all the fault of the Chinese.

Failure to react in any meaningful way is equally to blame but you seem to accept that because you've allocated all the blame to the Chinese.

That really is tosh.
 
Wizaard said:
In which case, there has been no need to do anything, according to you. Completely powerless and it's all the fault of the Chinese.

Failure to react in any meaningful way is equally to blame but you seem to accept that because you've allocated all the blame to the Chinese.

That really is tosh.
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Of course it's the fault of the Chinese but as a country we have to do what we can, as do every other country. And of course we could have done better on so many things. But you are still in denial and totally blinkered. The disease was already here. it was already in the country. Your post above absolves China of any blame.
 
Wizaard said:
Who is responsible for what happens in this country? The Chinese?

No one is responsible for the deaths in this country apart from the Government and their failure to handle the crisis.

Feel free to explain why the Chinese Government are in charge of our borders, our health policies and our procurement plans.
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The more I read your post the more disgusting it is. Applying your logic, every country's govt is then responsible for it's own deaths and no blame should be attached elsewhere. That is really a pretty sick comment from you.
 
This is all very interesting but are some of the posters who are criticising China on this thread, not also posting on other threads extolling the benefits of trade with China over trade with the EU?

Don’t get me wrong. I certainly think the CCP has a lot of questions to answer over Covid. But does that mean they are a pariah state that we want nothing to do with? Or what?
 
20togo said:
The more I read your post the more disgusting it is. Applying your logic, every country's govt is then responsible for it's own deaths and no blame should be attached elsewhere. That is really a pretty sick comment from you.
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That's not what I said at all. The more you read it, the more you read things into it that aren't there.

China bears the responsibility for not reporting the virus as soon as possible. Governments who then fail to act once they know it's out there clearly bear responsibility for not acting in the best possible way. Others have done that and restricted the death rate. We have signally failed.

To that extent, we must carry the can.

It's disgusting to think that this Government get a free pass because of failures in China a year ago. What's that got to do with ridiculous Christmas policies and shambolic decisions over school closures? China's fault?
 
Wizaard said:
That's not what I said at all. The more you read it, the more you read things into it that aren't there.

China bears the responsibility for not reporting the virus as soon as possible. Governments who then fail to act once they know it's out there clearly bear responsibility for not acting in the best possible way. Others have done that and restricted the death rate. We have signally failed.

To that extent, we must carry the can.

It's disgusting to think that this Government get a free pass because of failures in China a year ago. What's that got to do with ridiculous Christmas policies and shambolic decisions over school closures? China's fault?
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Wasting your time Wiz. Utterly bizarre opinions on here from people who seem to be utterly brainwashed Tory boys unable to think for themselves.

I wouldn't worry. It's not what normal people think. Most are appalled by this governments total incompetence.
 
We can all agree that China failed to give us information at the correct time so we could close our borders etc. But please answer me one question, what do people think would have happened once we reopened our borders? This virus ain't going away, it would have hit at any time................and China is sitting there laughing it's nuts off because others are too frightened to hold them to account.
 
Macseasider said:
Wasting your time Wiz. Utterly bizarre opinions on here from people who seem to be utterly brainwashed Tory boys unable to think for themselves.

I wouldn't worry. It's not what normal people think. Most are appalled by this governments total incompetence.
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And there's nothing bizarre about blaming the government for every death? And you have the cheek to label other people brainwashed.
 
EagleDay said:
We can all agree that China failed to give us information at the correct time so we could close our borders etc. But please answer me one question, what do people think would have happened once we reopened our borders? This virus ain't going away, it would have hit at any time................and China is sitting there laughing it's nuts off because others are too frightened to hold them to account.
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Sitting there laughing it's nuts off with just about the only economy to record growth for the foreseeable future. Yes they must be well and truly laughing their nuts off
 
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Wizaard said:
Who is responsible for what happens in this country? The Chinese?

No one is responsible for the deaths in this country apart from the Government and their failure to handle the crisis.

Feel free to explain why the Chinese Government are in charge of our borders, our health policies and our procurement plans.
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Wizaard said:
That's not what I said at all. The more you read it, the more you read things into it that aren't there.

China bears the responsibility for not reporting the virus as soon as possible. Governments who then fail to act once they know it's out there clearly bear responsibility for not acting in the best possible way. Others have done that and restricted the death rate. We have signally failed.

To that extent, we must carry the can.

It's disgusting to think that this Government get a free pass because of failures in China a year ago. What's that got to do with ridiculous Christmas policies and shambolic decisions over school closures? China's fault?
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It's not what you said at all?. So what does that middle para in your first quote say? It's very much what you said.. It's there in black and white.

And you then shift tack in your next quote.. I suggest you do a bit of research and you'll find plenty of criticism from residents of other countries and how their govt's have handled the crisis. You talk about the restriction of the death rate. The virus was here in Europe before anyone knew of it's effect. We could have closed borders and gone into lockdown two weeks before other countries but the fact is the disease was already here and because of that people would have died. By your non sensical logic, the virus would have have been eliminated now and that was never gonna happen and we shouldn't have any deaths.
 
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I get it, evidence that supports your opinion is correct, evidence that contradicts it is so obviously made up that you're stupid if you believe it.

Great debate guys, carry on. 👍
 
Magic147 said:
I get it, evidence that supports your opinion is correct, evidence that contradicts it is so obviously made up that you're stupid if you believe it.

Great debate guys, carry on. 👍
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Just try googling it. Plenty of evidence there to suggest they've suppressed their figures.
 
20togo said:
Just try googling it. Plenty of evidence there to suggest they've suppressed their figures.
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It's not the point, is it? So what if that one country manipulated their figures - even if it's to the extent that we're the 5th highest deaths per 100,000 population - does that then mean that it's all China's fault? Do you think our figures are 100% accurate? I'd be very, very surprised if the figures in every single one of those countries aren't manipulated in some way, but I don't think anybody could reasonably argue that we've dealt with the situation well.
 
Magic147 said:
It's not the point, is it? So what if that one country manipulated their figures - even if it's to the extent that we're the 5th highest deaths per 100,000 population - does that then mean that it's all China's fault? Do you think our figures are 100% accurate? I'd be very, very surprised if the figures in every single one of those countries aren't manipulated in some way, but I don't think anybody could reasonably argue that we've dealt with the situation well.
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That's another topic being constantly discussed.
 
Boris has said this evening that our own home grown Kent version is more deadly.

Are we still blaming the Chinese for that? Asking for a friend...
 
How do we know it is homegrown?

OK it was identified here first, but it has now been identified in numerous countries around the world, a number without any link to the UK, but they don't have the same facilities to identify these things as we do in Porton Down.
 
Wizaard said:
Boris has said this evening that our own home grown Kent version is more deadly.

Are we still blaming the Chinese for that? Asking for a friend...
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Your friend has just given you the answer. 😉
This supposed wedding with it now downgraded to 150 people there. Some-one gets the disease from attending and dies and in your eyes it's solely the govts fault.
 
Magic147 said:
4th highest deaths per 100,000 of population IN THE WORLD.

Is that China's fault as well?

en.wikipedia.org

COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Indirectly it is.
Admittedly this government haven't handled everything as well as it could but apart from the Taiwanese every other country has had problems.
If China hadn't manufactured a virus, then fail to control it there wouldn't have been any covid deaths. Therefore no government would have had a problem.
What do people not understand about that?
 
The cover up is staggering. Yet people defend China. Even the WHO have been found wanting.
 
The Prime Minister has been on the news tonight saying the deaths are his responsibility. Is he wrong?
 
Wizzerboy said:
Indirectly it is.
Admittedly this government haven't handled everything as well as it could but apart from the Taiwanese every other country has had problems.
If China hadn't manufactured a virus, then fail to control it there wouldn't have been any covid deaths. Therefore no government would have had a problem.
What do people not understand about that?
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China didn't manufacture a virus. Please provide a credible source if you're so certain.
 
In my limited knowledge, I do feel China was the root cause of this shitstorm. But Boris and his clowns come a close 2nd.
PPE
Nightingales
Test n Trace
Open borders
Schools and Universities
Lockdown
False promises on opening up
Etc etc
 
Hertsseasider said:
In my limited knowledge, I do feel China was the root cause of this shitstorm. But Boris and his clowns come a close 2nd.
PPE
Nightingales
Test n Trace
Open borders
Schools and Universities
Lockdown
False promises on opening up
Etc etc
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Maybe you should blame China for not closing their borders. After all, whilst they were covering up with their lies they were allowing people to travel all all over the globe. The virus was out and spreading. That was before we pretty much knew very little about it. After all even in to January they were stating it wasn't transferrable human to human. Of course Boris, the govt and joe public themselves have made mistakes but nothing comes close to the despicable actions of the Chinese. Suggest you give the programme a watch. The lack of condemnation of China on here is staggering. Some posters say every death is our govts fault and some-one even said China were blameless.
 
Recidivist3 said:
How old are you. You sound like a feckin’ Beano character. 20’s the Menace and his stupid feckin dog
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At least I don't make posts about slitting peoples throats or have the symbol of the black power movement to intentionally cause offence to people. I see you were up into the early hours thinking about me. Ah bless.
 
20togo said:
I don't think you've a good track record of getting back to me have you? [snigger]
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Afternoon 20's
I bet you went to bed with a smile on your face having made such a cutting remark. Think it says more about you when you'd rather come on here spoiling for a fight than celebrate a tremendous away win
 
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