Partygate Debate

Matesrates said:
Can he stumble on and get through this? All the odds are against it, but stranger things have happened. The war in Ukraine rumbles on giving him the international platform, cost of living rises aren’t quite as bad as people thought, nice summer, loads going off on holidays, the various investigations kind of go his way. Could he?
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To be frank the Tories made a right mess of yesterday's debate. At the eleventh hour Johnson tabled an amendment that would have tied his MPs to a three line whip. Once the Chief Whip had taken soundings it was dropped. Not only had it caused bad blood among his MPs, it also made them look defensive - as if there was something to hide. Once the Speaker announced that it had been withdrawn many of them fled the House so as not to have to declare their support either way through the lobbies.
 
FACT CHECK
Labour party leaflets repeat false claim on cost of living

Labour are selling election leaflets to their supporters that prominently feature a false claim about the cost of living crisis. They are also running adverts on Facebook with the same claim.

One of the leaflets says: “The Conservative Government’s cost of living crisis means families are £2,620 worse off.”

But official figures suggest that the average family will be about £700 worse off this year, not £2,620.

Although it’s true to say the average household is expected to experience a large fall in its living standards this year, Labour’s calculations are flawed.

Labour arrived at the figure by adding together several unexplained or unreliable estimates for different cost rises. Crucially, Labour did not offset these costs against rises in benefits or wages.

Using estimates from the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Office for National Statistics, changes in living standards would actually equate to a fall of about £700 per household. This is still a significant amount - but Labour’s estimate is far too high.

This figure has also been cited by MPs, including Keir Starmer himself. We believe these leaflets should be withdrawn, and corrections should be issued.

SO IT ISNT JUST BORIS THAT TELLS PORKIES!!!!!
 
Curryman said:
​
FACT CHECK
Labour party leaflets repeat false claim on cost of living

Labour are selling election leaflets to their supporters that prominently feature a false claim about the cost of living crisis. They are also running adverts on Facebook with the same claim.

One of the leaflets says: “The Conservative Government’s cost of living crisis means families are £2,620 worse off.”

But official figures suggest that the average family will be about £700 worse off this year, not £2,620.

Although it’s true to say the average household is expected to experience a large fall in its living standards this year, Labour’s calculations are flawed.

Labour arrived at the figure by adding together several unexplained or unreliable estimates for different cost rises. Crucially, Labour did not offset these costs against rises in benefits or wages.

Using estimates from the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Office for National Statistics, changes in living standards would actually equate to a fall of about £700 per household. This is still a significant amount - but Labour’s estimate is far too high.

This figure has also been cited by MPs, including Keir Starmer himself. We believe these leaflets should be withdrawn, and corrections should be issued.

SO IT ISNT JUST BORIS THAT TELLS PORKIES!!!!!

​
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Yes but they don’t care. They just want the Tories out no matter the consequences. It’s all about the HATE!!!! With the Left.
 
To even things up:

FACT CHECK
Boris Johnson wrong on employment figures…again

We were dismayed to hear the Prime Minister make a false employment claim in Parliament for the ninth time.

Over the last five months, he has frequently claimed that there are more people in work now than there were before the pandemic began. But official ONS figures prove otherwise.

At the end of last month, Boris Johnson said he “thinks” he has taken steps to correct the record on this issue. He has not. We will continue to work hard to secure corrections.

If either party wants to criticise the other for failing to correct mistakes, they must set an example by doing it themselves.
 
Scaramanga said:
Yes but they don’t care. They just want the Tories out no matter the consequences. It’s all about the HATE!!!! With the Left.
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You're frothing early today
Curryman said:
​
FACT CHECK
Labour party leaflets repeat false claim on cost of living

Labour are selling election leaflets to their supporters that prominently feature a false claim about the cost of living crisis. They are also running adverts on Facebook with the same claim.

One of the leaflets says: “The Conservative Government’s cost of living crisis means families are £2,620 worse off.”

But official figures suggest that the average family will be about £700 worse off this year, not £2,620.

Although it’s true to say the average household is expected to experience a large fall in its living standards this year, Labour’s calculations are flawed.

Labour arrived at the figure by adding together several unexplained or unreliable estimates for different cost rises. Crucially, Labour did not offset these costs against rises in benefits or wages.

Using estimates from the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Office for National Statistics, changes in living standards would actually equate to a fall of about £700 per household. This is still a significant amount - but Labour’s estimate is far too high.

This figure has also been cited by MPs, including Keir Starmer himself. We believe these leaflets should be withdrawn, and corrections should be issued.

SO IT ISNT JUST BORIS THAT TELLS PORKIES!!!!!

​
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Morning hun, I still haven't come across this this "widely reported" stat that 50% of the French think that Putin is in the right. Do you have a link?

Apologies if you've already supplied it and I've missed it.
 
Walthamstow_Seasider said:
You're frothing early today

Morning hun, I still haven't come across this this "widely reported" stat that 50% of the French think that Putin is in the right. Do you have a link?

Apologies if you've already supplied it and I've missed it.
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I haven't seen you asking for it and honestly can't remember where I saw it, but think it was one of the European papers, amongst others. I've slept since then. It was certainly on Euronews.
 
southshorepool said:
Ha ha .
And? Classic whataboutery and desperate stuff from a paper that is doubling down on last week's attack on Rayner. Investigated by police. Nothing to see here.
Only the terminally stupid would fall for this. Have you fallen for it?
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No only the terminally blind Tory haters would ignore. Hypocrisy on a monumental scale. As usual the Left dive in and go on like rabid dogs only to ignore their own making the same stupid mistakes. And this is why you keep losing elections .
 
Scaramanga said:
No only the terminally blind Tory haters would ignore. Hypocrisy on a monumental scale. As usual the Left dive in and go on like rabid dogs only to ignore their own making the same stupid mistakes. And this is why you keep losing elections .
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Do you think it's beneficial to your physical and mental health to be this angry so early in the morning?
You need to calm down.
Here's the facts.
1. Event investigated. Fine issued.
2. Event investigated. No further action.
One is Johnson: the other Starmer.
It really is that simple unless you think Angela crossed and uncrossed her legs to Durham's investigating officers
 
Both incidents from political parties equally wrong and I couldn't give a toss.

What I'm more annoyed about whilst they where eating cakes, drinking wine and beer the rest of the country was in Lockdown because they didn't care about the virus as they new the truth after all the scientific evidence they would have taken in 99% of citizens are fine with Covid and we shouldn't have shut down.
 
southshorepool said:
Ha ha .
And? Classic whataboutery and desperate stuff from a paper that is doubling down on last week's attack on Rayner. Investigated by police. Nothing to see here.
Only the terminally stupid would fall for this. Have you fallen for it?
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Yes, he has fallen for it. I think we know what that makes him.
 
The Daily Mail really is the lowest of the low, I'd actually prefer the Sun, at least there is no veneer of respectability in their propaganda.

Starmer investigated by the police and no laws were broken, fact.
PM investigated and found to have broken the law, fact.
So that part is a non-story.

On Rayner, it is just disgusting misogyny and she must be doing very well to attract this amount of attention. It is almost like some people don't want a working class woman to have a voice in parliament. She may well have joked about the gossip because it is so ridiculous and offensive, but so what? Does that make it OK to print misogynistic lies about her? It is an attempt to undermine, shut her down, to shut her up. I am surprised that the Mail are continuing to dig on this one, most Conservative MPs have condemned this story including the PM. And most right minded people can see it for what it is. However the MPs who spread this sort of shit are the sort of MPs who think its OK to view porn in public whilst at work, The wider question is, 'Why are so many people threatened by an articulate women?' - it's almost like there is a deep vein of misogyny and sexism at the core of British society.
 
If this does not reflect your view you should understand
That those who own the papers also own this piece of land
And they'd rather you believed
In Coronation Street capers
In the war of circulation, it sells newspapers
Could it be an infringement
Of the freedom of the press
To print pictures of women in states of undress?
 
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Scaramanga said:
As usual the Left dive in and go on like rabid dogs only to ignore their own making the same stupid mistakes. And this is why you keep losing elections .
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It’s been said before but I’ll say it again, as long as you assume that the Labour Party are the only option open to those whose views are left of centre … or, rather, left of Tory central, then your arguments will never have any real credibility with those who hold different, more ‘leftist’ views than you do
 
southshorepool said:
Do you think it's beneficial to your physical and mental health to be this angry so early in the morning?
You need to calm down.
Here's the facts.
1. Event investigated. Fine issued.
2. Event investigated. No further action.
One is Johnson: the other Starmer.
It really is that simple unless you think Angela crossed and uncrossed her legs to Durham's investigating officers
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I'm not angry.
 
Recidivist3 said:
It’s been said before but I’ll say it again, as long as you assume that the Labour Party are the only option open to those whose views are left of centre … or, rather, left of Tory central, then your arguments will never have any real credibility with those who hold different, more ‘leftist’ views than you do
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Who's the alternative ? the lib dems 😂
 
Scaramanga said:
No 66, what shows is that most of the mentalist lefties read the same old drivel, and take it as gospel as it suits their narrative, you included. You know my feelings on the media.
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Can I ask you a couple of questions, scara. Please answer them.
  • Do you think it is OK if a sitting PM breaks the law?
  • Do you think it is OK if a PM tells lies in parliament?
  • Do you think that the 'Sharon Stone' story about Angela Rayner is fair?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Can I ask you a couple of questions, scara. Please answer them.
  • Do you think it is OK if a sitting PM breaks the law?
  • Do you think it is OK if a PM tells lies in parliament?
  • Do you think that the 'Sharon Stone' story about Angela Rayner is fair?
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NO
NO
NO
 
Scaramanga said:
NO
NO
NO
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So we agree that the PM has broken the law and appears to have lied about it in parliament. That is why this story won't go away. It doesn't matter if the left are hypocrites or whatever. I'm not a great fan of Strarmer but he does at least appear to be an honourable and decent man. Whenever he has inadvertently mislead parliament he has corrected the record in parliament at the earliest opportunity. The PM has not done this and has attempted to lie his way out of a hole.
I am glad you agree about Rayner but am therefore puzzled as to why you are posting stuff that doubles down on the original disgusting story. You are complicit in a small way in the campaign to undermine her.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
So we agree that the PM has broken the law and appears to have lied about it in parliament. That is why this story won't go away. It doesn't matter if the left are hypocrites or whatever. I'm not a great fan of Strarmer but he does at least appear to be an honourable and decent man. Whenever he has inadvertently mislead parliament he has corrected the record in parliament at the earliest opportunity. The PM has not done this and has attempted to lie his way out of a hole.
I am glad you agree about Rayner but am therefore puzzled as to why you are posting stuff that doubles down on the original disgusting story. You are complicit in a small way in the campaign to undermine her.
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I don’t like her, and shes just as bad as starmer and all the rest of them. They are all as bad as each other. If pay attention you will notice the Right leaning of us are more than prepared to call out the Tories, but you just won’t see any of the Left calling out Labour, you are incapable of doing it.
 
Scaramanga said:
I don’t like her, and shes just as bad as starmer and all the rest of them. They are all as bad as each other. If pay attention you will notice the Right leaning of us are more than prepared to call out the Tories, but you just won’t see any of the Left calling out Labour, you are incapable of doing it.
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You may not like Raynor, but you said that you thought that the Sharon stone smear on her is unfair. But you have added to the misogyny by posting the doubling down Mail front page on it. In your own small way you have helped to spread the woman hating propaganda of the Daily Mail.

On to your other point - 'they are all as bad as each other'.
For simplicities sake, take the two parties leaders Johnson and Starmer.

Johnson has broken the law and then lied about it in parliament. Johnson was on TV several times a week telling us we must obey the laws that he then broke on multiple occasions.
Starmer has not done any of these things.

Johnson has a long track record of dishonesty, sleaze, racism, misogyny and stuff that has a whiff of corruption about it
Starmer doesn't

So I really don't think that they are 'all the same' and until you can provide some evidence just saying 'they are all the same' doesn't make it true - although it may salve your conscience so that you can look the other way as Johnson stoops to a new low.
I don't think that Starmer is a great charismatic leader but he does at least seem to possess some moral fibre, quite unlike the current PM.
Johnson is leading this country into a bad place and we must do what we can to stop it - quite a few Conservatives recognise this, it's not really party political. What Johnson is doing is bad for democracy in general.
 
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Johnson has a long track record of dishonesty, sleaze, racism, misogyny and stuff that has a whiff of corruption about it

Don't forget, he also passed on the address of someone to a person who had that individual beaten up.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Johnson has a long track record of dishonesty, sleaze, racism, misogyny and stuff that has a whiff of corruption about it

Don't forget, he also passed on the address of someone to a person who had that individual beaten up.
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That is why the news of a Tory MP caught watching porn in the HoC is not as shocking as it should. Johnson has created a party in his own image.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
You may not like Raynor, but you said that you thought that the Sharon stone smear on her is unfair. But you have added to the misogyny by posting the doubling down Mail front page on it. In your own small way you have helped to spread the woman hating propaganda of the Daily Mail.

On to your other point - 'they are all as bad as each other'.
For simplicities sake, take the two parties leaders Johnson and Starmer.

Johnson has broken the law and then lied about it in parliament. Johnson was on TV several times a week telling us we must obey the laws that he then broke on multiple occasions.
Starmer has not done any of these things.

Johnson has a long track record of dishonesty, sleaze, racism, misogyny and stuff that has a whiff of corruption about it
Starmer doesn't

So I really don't think that they are 'all the same' and until you can provide some evidence just saying 'they are all the same' doesn't make it true - although it may salve your conscience so that you can look the other way as Johnson stoops to a new low.
I don't think that Starmer is a great charismatic leader but he does at least seem to possess some moral fibre, quite unlike the current PM.
Johnson is leading this country into a bad place and we must do what we can to stop it - quite a few Conservatives recognise this, it's not really party political. What Johnson is doing is bad for democracy in general.
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Has it been proved she didn't do what they claim ?
 
If you don't like the Daily Mail, perhaps one of these will be OK. Take your pick:

www.bbc.com

Angela Rayner was at a lockdown event with Starmer

Labour says no Covid rules were broken at the event, where Sir Keir Starmer was filmed drinking a beer.
www.bbc.com

news.sky.com

Angela Rayner was present at Sir Keir Starmer lockdown beers, Labour confirm

The party acknowledges it previously told journalists she was not present at the gathering last April when coronavirus restrictions were in force, but say it was a "mistake made in good faith".
news.sky.com news.sky.com

www.independent.co.uk

Rayner was with Starmer during lockdown beers, Labour admits

The party said its previous claims that the deputy leader was not present were a ‘genuine mistake’, and it insisted no Covid rules were broken
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

ca.sports.yahoo.com

Rayner was with Starmer during lockdown beers, Labour admits

The party said its previous claims that the deputy leader was not present were a “genuine mistake”, and insisted no Covid rules were broken.
ca.sports.yahoo.com ca.sports.yahoo.com

www.telegraph.co.uk

Angela Rayner under pressure over Labour ‘lie’ about attendance at lockdown beer event

Labour initially denied deputy leader attended Durham gathering but backtracked when presented with evidence, admitting ‘honest mistake’
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

www.mirror.co.uk

Angela Rayner was with Keir Starmer on night of lockdown beer photo, Labour say

Labour sources admitted a 'genuine mistake' after an official initially denied she was there. But Labour denied Tory claims they broke the law and hit back: "They want people to think it’s all the same, so no scandal matters"
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Angela Rayner was with Keir Starmer during lockdown beers, Labour admits after 'mistake'

Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner was present when Sir Keir Starmer was caught on video drinking a beer with party workers during lockdown, the party has said.
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

It appears that the Police Commisioner was also present, apparently an old friend of KS.
 
Curryman said:
If you don't like the Daily Mail, perhaps one of these will be OK. Take your pick:

www.bbc.com

Angela Rayner was at a lockdown event with Starmer

Labour says no Covid rules were broken at the event, where Sir Keir Starmer was filmed drinking a beer.
www.bbc.com

news.sky.com

Angela Rayner was present at Sir Keir Starmer lockdown beers, Labour confirm

The party acknowledges it previously told journalists she was not present at the gathering last April when coronavirus restrictions were in force, but say it was a "mistake made in good faith".
news.sky.com news.sky.com

www.independent.co.uk

Rayner was with Starmer during lockdown beers, Labour admits

The party said its previous claims that the deputy leader was not present were a ‘genuine mistake’, and it insisted no Covid rules were broken
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

ca.sports.yahoo.com

Rayner was with Starmer during lockdown beers, Labour admits

The party said its previous claims that the deputy leader was not present were a “genuine mistake”, and insisted no Covid rules were broken.
ca.sports.yahoo.com ca.sports.yahoo.com

www.telegraph.co.uk

Angela Rayner under pressure over Labour ‘lie’ about attendance at lockdown beer event

Labour initially denied deputy leader attended Durham gathering but backtracked when presented with evidence, admitting ‘honest mistake’
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

www.mirror.co.uk

Angela Rayner was with Keir Starmer on night of lockdown beer photo, Labour say

Labour sources admitted a 'genuine mistake' after an official initially denied she was there. But Labour denied Tory claims they broke the law and hit back: "They want people to think it’s all the same, so no scandal matters"
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Angela Rayner was with Keir Starmer during lockdown beers, Labour admits after 'mistake'

Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner was present when Sir Keir Starmer was caught on video drinking a beer with party workers during lockdown, the party has said.
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

It appears that the Police Commisioner was also present, apparently an old friend of KS.
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One event was a party where people gathered to have seen drink and eat cake, while the other was a working event where refreshments were allowed under the rules.

Police investigated both and one was guilty, the other not, unless your implying the Police Commissioner is corrupt?
 
Wizaard said:
Define bullying.

I'd say calling out misogyny in this instance.
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Show me where I said something misogynistic ? You can’t because I didn’t. I posted the article from the Mail pointing out the hypocrisy of the Labour Party. The accusation laid at her feet from the MAIL not me is that she talked about flashing her legs. I didn’t say that, I asked can you prove she didn’t say that and you and your mate started calling me out. I’ll wait for your proof I said something misogynistic and the proof you had she didn’t say what the article says she did.
 
Scaramanga said:
Show me where I said something misogynistic ? You can’t because I didn’t. I posted the article from the Mail pointing out the hypocrisy of the Labour Party. The accusation laid at her feet from the MAIL not me is that she talked about flashing her legs. I didn’t say that, I asked can you prove she didn’t say that and you and your mate started calling me out. I’ll wait for your proof I said something misogynistic and the proof you had she didn’t say what the article says she did
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You're perpetuating the disgraceful slur by asking for proof she didn't do it deliberately, obviously.
 
Wizaard said:
One event was a party where people gathered to have seen drink and eat cake, while the other was a working event where refreshments were allowed under the rules.

Police investigated both and one was guilty, the other not, unless your implying the Police Commissioner is corrupt?
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Please don't put words into my mouth. There are plenty of reports for you to choose from, and the latter is from good old Gido, who I understand deal in facts. Nowhere have I intimated that she is corrupt, so get a hold of yourself before you implode.

Anyway I have a far more important thing to do now, it's dinner time.
 
Curryman said:
Please don't put words into my mouth. There are plenty of reports for you to choose from, and the latter is from good old Gido, who I understand deal in facts. Nowhere have I intimated that she is corrupt, so get a hold of yourself before you implode.

Anyway I have a far more important thing to do now, it's dinner time.
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I'm not imploding. Just saying one was guilty and paid a fine while the other was investigated and had no case to answer.

They're not 'all the same'.
 
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