Partygate Debate

rockontommy said:
It does not impact the lives of most people who are busy getting on and trying to keep the wolf from the door. Nothing weird about that at all. In fact it's a very ordinary observation.
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You are absolutely right that people will be concentrating on "keeping the wolf from the door" as you put it. Yes, it is remote from the day-to-day of life but it is relevant to all citizens and it does need to be sorted. It would be better if it hadn't happened; if we didn't have a scheming liar for a Prime Minister, but we do. The blame for any distraction from concentrating on our social and economic ills must, therefore, be laid at his door. In the same way, it is Putin's fault that his war in Ukraine is sending the world economy on a downward spiral. Nobody blames Parliament for that, and quite rightly so. Always seek out the true cause of problems, not those looking for solutions.
 
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Watching the debate I am struck that the PM doesn't actually have blind support amongst many of his own MPs. The ones that spoke were mainly equivocal about his behaviour and there weren't really very many speeches from Johnson apologists, many of whom were absent
I think he is dead in the water and it's a matter of time because this story isn't going away. Things that will finish him off could be amongst the following;
  • fines / proof that he instigated the 13th November leaving do party by pouring drinks etc as reported in the ST last weekend.
  • fines / proof that he hosted a party in his own flat - the so called ABBA party
  • the release of new photographic evidence, 300 photos which will be used in the parliamentary enquiry into his behaviour that has just gone through the house
  • the publication of the Sue Gray report
The next one of the above to break will probably cause a shift in opinion amongst the MPs and cause a vote of no confidence. There is only a finite time in which you can defend the indefensible and he has become an electoral liability. From what we have seen today, and it seems that most Tory MPs will agree, that you cannot lie from the dispatch box if you believe that our parliamentary democracy is sovereign.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Watching the debate I am struck that the PM doesn't actually have blind support amongst many of his own MPs. The ones that spoke were mainly equivocal about his behaviour and there weren't really very many speeches from Johnson apologists, many of whom were absent
I think he is dead in the water and it's a matter of time because this story isn't going away. Things that will finish him off could be amongst the following;
  • fines / proof that he instigated the 13th November leaving do party by pouring drinks etc as reported in the ST last weekend.
  • fines / proof that he hosted a party in his own flat - the so called ABBA party
  • the release of new photographic evidence, 300 photos which will be used in the parliamentary enquiry into his behaviour that has just gone through the house
  • the publication of the Sue Gray report
The next one of the above to break will probably cause a shift in opinion amongst the MPs and cause a vote of no confidence. There is only a finite time in which you can defend the indefensible and he has become an electoral liability. From what we have seen today, and it seems that most Tory MPs will agree, that you cannot lie from the dispatch box if you believe that our parliamentary democracy is sovereign.
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You missed one...the May local election results. If the Tory vote holds up and your other issues come to pass then the Tories might try to ride it out. If the results are bad then any one of your issues could trigger a NC vote.
 
rockontommy said:
Most people aren't arsed. If Keith could come up with a plan to make every person and family £2k richer each year, he'd be in like Flynn. It really is that simple.
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That's the problem . . . people like you are not bothered about being lied to and are happy for the country to be run by self serving twats.

They are not interested in normal people, don't care about the soaring cost of living but you crack on and continue defending them.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I don’t know what it is about BJ…. He must have sone mystical powers or something. The more shit he gets himself into, the more I find myself rooting for him.

Watching the news today and the scene cuts from Serious Starmer speaking in parliament to Boris looking like an absolute prize **, smirking like a chimpanzee as usual, as he’s regaled with a Turban.

I’d have him as Prime Minister forever….. 👍
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Seriously? Please don't go down in my estimation. You are very determined in your arguing your point. This just sounds nonsensical.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Then I think you have a misguided opinion about most people.
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No , I think you do. AVFTT, a good cross section of people. I'd put it down as an absolute certainty that most posters don't post on this side of the forum. Why do you think that is? Because they care very little for politics and all the shiite it brings. Especially with posters who simply repeat the same old negative nonsense ad nauseum on here. If most people cared, why do the polls have low turn-outs so often. You might be obsessed with it and that's your prerogative but I think your way wide of the mark to think most do.

Your o/p tells us to catch the debate if you can. How many do you seriously think did even if you think it was such an important matter? Nowhere near as many as you'd like or even think, that's how many. Why? Because people are getting on with the lives and have more important things ro worry about than watching a debate on tele. Lets face it, Strictly, Corrie or many other programmes will get a far bigger audience. You might not like that but here's my advice, accept it and deal with it!
 
20togo said:
No , I think you do. AVFTT, a good cross section of people. I'd put it down as an absolute certainty that most posters don't post on this side of the forum. Why do you think that is? Because they care very little for politics and all the shiite it brings. Especially with posters who simply repeat the same old negative nonsense ad nauseum on here. If most people cared, why do the polls have low turn-outs so often. You might be obsessed with it and that's your prerogative but I think your way wide of the mark to think most do.

Your o/p tells us to catch the debate if you can. How many do you seriously think did even if you think it was such an important matter? Nowhere near as many as you'd like or even think, that's how many. Why? Because people are getting on with the lives and have more important things ro worry about than watching a debate on tele. Lets face it, Strictly, Corrie or many other programmes will get a far bigger audience. You might not like that but here's my advice, accept it and deal with it!
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A crime should not go unpunished because it was historical in times where many were hysterical with things they had to put up with.
 
20togo said:
No , I think you do. AVFTT, a good cross section of people. I'd put it down as an absolute certainty that most posters don't post on this side of the forum. Why do you think that is? Because they care very little for politics and all the shiite it brings. Especially with posters who simply repeat the same old negative nonsense ad nauseum on here. If most people cared, why do the polls have low turn-outs so often. You might be obsessed with it and that's your prerogative but I think your way wide of the mark to think most do.

Your o/p tells us to catch the debate if you can. How many do you seriously think did even if you think it was such an important matter? Nowhere near as many as you'd like or even think, that's how many. Why? Because people are getting on with the lives and have more important things ro worry about than watching a debate on tele. Lets face it, Strictly, Corrie or many other programmes will get a far bigger audience. You might not like that but here's my advice, accept it and deal with it!
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You are being rather angry about this. I posted on the politics forum, for those who post on this forum - of all persuasions btw - that the debate was on and that those posters might want to watch it. It was not put on the football forum because (a) it obvs belongs on this forum and (b) it wouldn't appeal to a lot of posters on there.
However, you may be confusing my understanding of the nation's voters who may be swayed by this issue and those within your immediate focus.
Whether or not, I stand by my post.
 
20togo said:
No , I think you do. AVFTT, a good cross section of people. I'd put it down as an absolute certainty that most posters don't post on this side of the forum. Why do you think that is? Because they care very little for politics and all the shiite it brings. Especially with posters who simply repeat the same old negative nonsense ad nauseum on here. If most people cared, why do the polls have low turn-outs so often. You might be obsessed with it and that's your prerogative but I think your way wide of the mark to think most do.

Your o/p tells us to catch the debate if you can. How many do you seriously think did even if you think it was such an important matter? Nowhere near as many as you'd like or even think, that's how many. Why? Because people are getting on with the lives and have more important things ro worry about than watching a debate on tele. Lets face it, Strictly, Corrie or many other programmes will get a far bigger audience. You might not like that but here's my advice, accept it and deal with it!
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That argument works for you when your party is in power.

Apparently the angry old AVFTT man defence at the moment is 'who cares'? Well from the look of it most of the PM's own party.
 
My take on it is simple and outwith politics.

Our Prime Minister is the figurehead who deals with other countries. He negotiates deals, agrees common interests, seeks to develop trade.

if the individual doing this is, yet again, proven to be a liar, why would any other countries trust us to keep to agreements?

To me, that is why it matters.
 
Wizaard said:
I've seen my Dad twice in two years, to the point where he has deteriorated that badly, he doesn't know who I am. Meanwhile the man who set the law that stopped me seeing him broke it regularly and gratuitously.

He's a disgrace to the office. End of.
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I’m so sorry to read this about your father, it’s very sad to hear. I’d been wondering how he was faring, following our conversation about our dads…I can understand your bitterness.
 
Wizaard said:
I've seen my Dad twice in two years, to the point where he has deteriorated that badly, he doesn't know who I am. Meanwhile the man who set the law that stopped me seeing him broke it regularly and gratuitously.

He's a disgrace to the office. End of.
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Bloody hell Wizaard, that's awful. Here we are debating philosophically and you've got that going on. I'm so, so sorry.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
Easy - there's no viable alternative. Miliband...Corbyn...Starmer. and it goes on.
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It wouldn't matter who was leader, you'd say the same thing I suspect.
Just to add for balance. I don't care who leads the Conservatives, I would never vote for them because their core values are nowhere near mine.
That's partisan politics for you.
 
Leither said:
That's the problem . . . people like you are not bothered about being lied to and are happy for the country to be run by self serving twats.

They are not interested in normal people, don't care about the soaring cost of living but you crack on and continue defending them.
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Yer, it's all my fault. Do you actually believe this shit? 😂 Someone who didn't vote for the fat fuck and was dead against his stupid laws. Have a day off. "People like you" haha
 
fcblackpool said:
A crime should not go unpunished because it was historical in times where many were hysterical with things they had to put up with.
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i've never said the crime should go unpunished. I couldn't care less whether he does or doesn't.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
You are being rather angry about this. I posted on the politics forum, for those who post on this forum - of all persuasions btw - that the debate was on and that those posters might want to watch it. It was not put on the football forum because (a) it obvs belongs on this forum and (b) it wouldn't appeal to a lot of posters on there.
However, you may be confusing my understanding of the nation's voters who may be swayed by this issue and those within your immediate focus.
Whether or not, I stand by my post.
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nope, it's you who is the angry one. It's you who is forever moaning about this govt. It's you who is forever posting your views on politics. It's you who is clearly unhappy with in life and perceive that life is unfair
 
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Lytham_fy8 said:
That argument works for you when your party is in power.

Apparently the angry old AVFTT man defence at the moment is 'who cares'? Well from the look of it most of the PM's own party.
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nah not really. I couldn't give a shit who was in power. My life would be no different.
 
Just looking at this thread for the first time.

The usual rwnjs spouting their pro de Pfeffel drivel. The Tory Party had to change tack just before the debate to avoid humiliation.

The rwnjs are now looking even more stupid than usual. Stop saying booo...ring or let's move on. You can't defend the indefensible. Just admit it.
 
rockontommy said:
Yer, it's all my fault. Do you actually believe this shit? 😂 Someone who didn't vote for the fat fuck and was dead against his stupid laws. Have a day off. "People like you" haha
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Then explain yourself more clearly. Nobody posts criticisms for the hell of it. Sorry, except the RWNJs
 
The things holding conservatives back from a leadership contest are the cost of living, which will get much worse, the local elections in May, what will happen with Ukraine and the cost, and the lack of a credible alternative. They’d rather a wounded Boris took the flak. Of course there’s no doubt it’s coming, so who will be the candidates?

Rishi, has he been mortally damaged?
Liz, can you trusst her? Does she have the charism?
Ben Wallace, too serious? Boring Ben?
Pritti? Rottweiler.
Mike “the knife” Gove?

I’m running out and that’s their problem too.
 
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Some serious froth in here. Just remember how much you all used to love calling the opposition gammon frothers. The Left on here are truly at bursting froth point.
 
Wizaard said:
I've seen my Dad twice in two years, to the point where he has deteriorated that badly, he doesn't know who I am. Meanwhile the man who set the law that stopped me seeing him broke it regularly and gratuitously.

He's a disgrace to the office. End of.
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Phil, I hadn't realised your father was now in care or was in need of it until I saw your post the other day about looking for a new home for him. Be careful choosing, as some care homes are not always what they are cracked up to be when you look at them. Besides examining the home yourself, ask to see their most recent CQC report, go online and check previous reports they can be eye-openers, and ask if they have any plans for extending or altering their building. This can cause chaos in even a well-run home. Ask how long their present home Manager has been in charge etc. If your Dad has dementia, he has to rely fully on them and of course, you, so the more information you have the better. When visiting, vary the times and days so that they are, hopefully, on tip-top form at all times. If I can be of any assistance don't hesitate to call me.
 
20togo said:
nah not really. I couldn't give a shit who was in power. My life would be no different.
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I know we've had political discussions and disagree on many things. I'm quite disappointed in this attitude, I understand your sentiment and it's perhaps a good sign that its citizens are ambivalent. What worries me is the dysfunctional two party state that is rapidly morphing into one. Regardless of red or blue affiliation we should be very concerned when the PM breaks the law, it doesn't matter how minor this is perceived it sets an unacceptable tone. For the record I do not perceive it as minor when sacrifice was made by the general population, loved ones were left to die alone, funerals scarcely attended and grieving wife's, children were sat alone sobbing. Even the Queen sat alone. Its not just about you, we should be concerned for our children, grand children and future generations about the direction of travel this country is going, we shouldn't just shrug our shoulders at the PM lying. Remember we do have freedom of speech and can show dissent, that's our right unlike many countries where this sort of thing can end up in prison/torture etc. It's a good job that in South Africa, East Germany, Poland etc had people who stood up to the system despite huge personal risk, there are many posters on here hoping that Putin is removed by his own whilst not giving a toss about our PM continually lying and now actually breaking that law. I'm not comparing any of those regimes to ours but surely we deserve better? If we allow this sort of behaviour to continue it will go downhill to a point where people like you will be upset, it'll be too late by then.
 
Shandypants said:
I know we've had political discussions and disagree on many things. I'm quite disappointed in this attitude, I understand your sentiment and it's perhaps a good sign that its citizens are ambivalent. What worries me is the dysfunctional two party state that is rapidly morphing into one. Regardless of red or blue affiliation we should be very concerned when the PM breaks the law, it doesn't matter how minor this is perceived it sets an unacceptable tone. For the record I do not perceive it as minor when sacrifice was made by the general population, loved ones were left to die alone, funerals scarcely attended and grieving wife's, children were sat alone sobbing. Even the Queen sat alone. Its not just about you, we should be concerned for our children, grand children and future generations about the direction of travel this country is going, we shouldn't just shrug our shoulders at the PM lying. Remember we do have freedom of speech and can show dissent, that's our right unlike many countries where this sort of thing can end up in prison/torture etc. It's a good job that in South Africa, East Germany, Poland etc had people who stood up to the system despite huge personal risk, there are many posters on here hoping that Putin is removed by his own whilst not giving a toss about our PM continually lying and now actually breaking that law. I'm not comparing any of those regimes to ours but surely we deserve better? If we allow this sort of behaviour to continue it will go downhill to a point where people like you will be upset, it'll be too late by then.
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yeah, that's fine and fair and I'm not gonna disagree with most of it, safe to say that the issue of an actual war in Europe which actually threatens world peace is far more important than Boris having a party at no 10. Yet you wouldn't think that the case reading some of the stuff on here. I''ve said it before that I'm sure Johnson will get his come uppance at some point and that will be whenever it is. Meanwhile I like, what i believe the vast majority in the country will do, is simply carry on with my life and I'm not gonna worry over something I've no real control over.
 
20togo said:
yeah, that's fine and fair and I'm not gonna disagree with most of it, safe to say that the issue of an actual war in Europe which actually threatens world peace is far more important than Boris having a party at no 10. Yet you wouldn't think that the case reading some of the stuff on here. I''ve said it before that I'm sure Johnson will get his come uppance at some point and that will be whenever it is. Meanwhile I like, what i believe the vast majority in the country will do, is simply carry on with my life and I'm not gonna worry over something I've no real control over.
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Carry on with life whilst contributing many times to a thread about an issue that you keep professing you don't care about, have no interest in, have no control over and won't affect you.

The reason why this is important (to some of us) is because it goes to the heart of our unwritten constitution and what can (and cannot) be said in parliament.

It is a very appropriate subject for discussion on a politics forum.
 
I'm not gonna worry over something I've no real control over.

Such as the war in Ukraine or the rising cost of living? This looks rather like stumbling about in the dark and lashing out at targets indiscriminately.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I'm not gonna worry over something I've no real control over.

Such as the war in Ukraine or the rising cost of living? This looks rather like stumbling about in the dark and lashing out at targets indiscriminately.
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I'm still struggling with the logic behind coming on to a politics board to moan about people who are using it to post about.... er .... politics. :)
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I'm not gonna worry over something I've no real control over.

Such as the war in Ukraine or the rising cost of living? This looks rather like stumbling about in the dark and lashing out at targets indiscriminately.
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The loony left are such easy targets.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
I'm still struggling with the logic behind coming on to a politics board to moan about people who are using it to post about.... er .... politics. :)
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If you're struggling then don't. Take a chill pill and go and have a nice walk. That's what I've done. I'm sure you'll feel so much better for it. Give yourself a break from the relentless negativity of this side of the forum. Visit the other side and talk about football and BFC. Long time since you've done that.
 
Can he stumble on and get through this? All the odds are against it, but stranger things have happened. The war in Ukraine rumbles on giving him the international platform, cost of living rises aren’t quite as bad as people thought, nice summer, loads going off on holidays, the various investigations kind of go his way. Could he?
 
Matesrates said:
Can he stumble on and get through this? All the odds are against it, but stranger things have happened. The war in Ukraine rumbles on giving him the international platform, cost of living rises aren’t quite as bad as people thought, nice summer, loads going off on holidays, the various investigations kind of go his way. Could he?
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I think he is gone this time. The next fine / revelation will be worse than the birthday cake party which looks fairly trivial. As reported in the Sunday Times, Johnson instigated a leaving do by pouring drinks and encouraging people to come. If true this must result in another fine and is indefensible. Likewise the party inside his own flat.
Many on his of own side understand that he must go if he has lied in parliament and it is that that will bring him down. The lack of support for him yesterday was very clear.
The Met have said that they will not issue any fines until after the elections in May. Expect the next chapter then, bad election results plus another fine.
 
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