PODCAST "We're just stuck with him"

Good pod as ever, appreciate the work you guys do. I hope you continue to grow.

Despite the mess on the pitch and the current lock out from games, this has to be one of the time’s in my life I’ve felt most engaged with the club as a whole, your pod plays a part in that too. 👍. Keep it up.

@Phil_bfc deux you’re a funny one. You quiet rightly say on the pod the acquisition of players seems now really clumsy and has left us with a weird stock pile of players ala Grayson last year. But I could have swore you wrote at OP the other day saying how balanced the squad was now. 🤔
 
Rektseasider said:
Good pod as ever, appreciate the work you guys do. I hope you continue to grow.

Despite the mess on the pitch and the current lock out from games, this has to be one of the time’s in my life I’ve felt most engaged with the club as a whole, your pod plays a part in that too. 👍. Keep it up.

@Phil_bfc deux you’re a funny one. You quiet rightly say on the pod the acquisition of players seems now really clumsy and has left us with a weird stock pile of players ala Grayson last year. But I could have swore you wrote at OP the other day saying how balanced the squad was now. 🤔
Click to expand...
Its balanced that we have options all over the pitch

Just not experience in key positions

As i said on my post the other day i believe we are still missing 3 players
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Its balanced that we have options all over the pitch

Just not experience in key positions

As i said on my post the other day i believe we are still missing 3 players
Click to expand...
In terms of players in positions, we're only really a striker short imo and with that in mind, it's worth pointing out that the Mansfield fan John spoke to about CJ said he likes playing through the middle more than out wide. Yet we haven't gone that to my memory once.

It's more abstract qualities we're missing in other places in my opinion. Know-how, nous, resilience, pointing, clapping, urging others on and all the things that embody the rather vague but very apt term 'leadership'
 
20togo said:
Don't want to split hairs but we don't have options up front down the middle. Not a player in our squad who I'd call a striker. Just a load of forwards who'll never get enough goals.
Click to expand...
To be fair I think we do have the options. We’re just rigidly sticking to an ineffective formation which isn’t allowing us to see them.

I think we could play a combination of Yates, Madine or CJ up front through the middle, as we have other options for wing play.

As Phil points out as many of us have, even dating back to pre season. The real problem is there’s no spine or leaders in this squad.
 
td53 said:
In terms of players in positions, we're only really a striker short imo and with that in mind, it's worth pointing out that the Mansfield fan John spoke to about CJ said he likes playing through the middle more than out wide. Yet we haven't gone that to my memory once.

It's more abstract qualities we're missing in other places in my opinion. Know-how, nous, resilience, pointing, clapping, urging others on and all the things that embody the rather vague but very apt term 'leadership'
Click to expand...
A point that was mentioned more than once last night
 
20togo said:
Don't want to split hairs but we don't have options up front down the middle. Not a player in our squad who I'd call a striker. Just a load of forwards who'll never get enough goals.
Click to expand...
Thats appears to be the modern way 20s

None of the Liverpool front 3 are natural strikers yet they all score goals

I think thats what NC is trying to do

Just miles off in terms of quality
 
Rektseasider said:
To be fair I think we do have the options. We’re just rigidly sticking to an ineffective formation which isn’t allowing us to see them.

I think we could play a combination of Yates, Madine or CJ up front through the middle, as we have other options for wing play.

As Phil points out as many of us have, even dating back to pre season. The real problem is there’s no spine or leaders in this squad.
Click to expand...
Think perhaps you're missing my point. I'd say they are forwards who can play down the middle. They are not strikers who can get goals. I wouldn't back any of them to get over a dozen goals a season even if we were creating chances. The only way they would is if that we were streets ahead of the opposition where we were literally creating loads of clear cut chances every game. Takes me back to Brett and Murphs. That team were a team who created loads of chances and that's why those two scored so many. But boy oh boy, did Brett miss loads too.
 
Rektseasider said:
To be fair I think we do have the options. We’re just rigidly sticking to an ineffective formation which isn’t allowing us to see them.

I think we could play a combination of Yates, Madine or CJ up front through the middle, as we have other options for wing play.

As Phil points out as many of us have, even dating back to pre season. The real problem is there’s no spine or leaders in this squad.
Click to expand...

I think the rigidity contributes to that. I look at the players and I think there's potential for leaders in there but we're playing this philosophical way where doing certain things is all. The players don't look 'free' in their own minds to express themselves.

If they're coming in and getting told 'well, unlucky, you did what we asked, it just didn't fall' as per what goes out to the press, then these young lads aren't going to make that step up to thinking for themselves and therefore leadership won't emerge.

I was really vocal that I wanted Tilt back. He divides opinion and the point isn't to debate Tilt again, I just want a player like him to shout and bawl, even to make a mad run from the back, to burst blood vessels trying to get on a corner. To whip them up a bit.

There's got to be players in there capable of that. It's just an attitude and people can adopt an attitude. As I said at the beginning, it feels like 'doing their job' is enough and 'unlucky lads' is the message and therefore they don't need to take that attitude.

I'm not convinced we need a nasty character per se to get them playing, but I definitely think we need someone to ask questions.

CJ? What did you try when you were marked out of it?
Ethan - why did it take 90 minutes till you ran at the middle?
Demi? - why do you stop when you run forward? What are you scared of?
Gary? - could you shout at the team instead of the ref mate?
Jerry? - is it a good idea to just shoulder barge players over when we've got 5 minutes to play?

They're either frightened or not frightened enough and either way it's too comfortable.
 
20togo said:
Think perhaps you're missing my point. I'd say they are forwards who can play down the middle. They are not strikers who can get goals. I wouldn't back any of them to get over a dozen goals a season even if we were creating chances. The only way they would is if that we were streets ahead of the opposition where we were literally creating loads of clear cut chances every game. Takes me back to Brett and Murphs. That team were a team who created loads of chances and that's why those two scored so many. But boy oh boy, did Brett miss loads too.
Click to expand...
Ok fair enough.

Yates is only a potential I get that.

CJ has three goals already, despite this impotent style and being marked out of 3 of the games. I think there’s goals in him through the middle.

Madine has a good record behind him. If he were in a 2 with either of the above I could see him getting 10-15 goals in a league season.

I think we Have the players to forge a new Brett and Murphy partnership. Just not being allowed to do it at the moment.
 
20togo said:
Think perhaps you're missing my point. I'd say they are forwards who can play down the middle. They are not strikers who can get goals. I wouldn't back any of them to get over a dozen goals a season even if we were creating chances. The only way they would is if that we were streets ahead of the opposition where we were literally creating loads of clear cut chances every game. Takes me back to Brett and Murphs. That team were a team who created loads of chances and that's why those two scored so many. But boy oh boy, did Brett miss loads too.
Click to expand...
Brett had the same gift as super Gnands. He didn't care if he missed. He just went again and if he missed again. So what. Go again. Repeat until it goes in.

That's such a quality to have, especially in a player like Brett or Armand who in different ways had physical attributes to set them apart and make them difficult to shut out of games.
 
td53 said:
I think the rigidity contributes to that. I look at the players and I think there's potential for leaders in there but we're playing this philosophical way where doing certain things is all. The players don't look 'free' in their own minds to express themselves.

If they're coming in and getting told 'well, unlucky, you did what we asked, it just didn't fall' as per what goes out to the press, then these young lads aren't going to make that step up to thinking for themselves and therefore leadership won't emerge.

I was really vocal that I wanted Tilt back. He divides opinion and the point isn't to debate Tilt again, I just want a player like him to shout and bawl, even to make a mad run from the back, to burst blood vessels trying to get on a corner. To whip them up a bit.

There's got to be players in there capable of that. It's just an attitude and people can adopt an attitude. As I said at the beginning, it feels like 'doing their job' is enough and 'unlucky lads' is the message and therefore they don't need to take that attitude.

I'm not convinced we need a nasty character per se to get them playing, but I definitely think we need someone to ask questions.

CJ? What did you try when you were marked out of it?
Ethan - why did it take 90 minutes till you ran at the middle?
Demi? - why do you stop when you run forward? What are you scared of?
Gary? - could you shout at the team instead of the ref mate?
Jerry? - is it a good idea to just shoulder barge players over when we've got 5 minutes to play?

They're either frightened or not frightened enough and either way it's too comfortable.
Click to expand...
Really good post that.

Which leads to further questions, if we can see this why can’t the people in charge?
 
62years&counting said:
Has anyone a view on Critchley's number2? Has he any pedigree?
Perhaps Dunn could see it was a shambles and couldn't wait to get away.
Click to expand...
He's well rated in the game. Mostly as a youth coach but he had a spell abroad as a number 2 somewhere I can't remember.

I don't think there's any question both of them come with pedigree but the list of great coaches who didn't make great managers is long. Look at Brian Kidd as a prime example. Behind the scenes for so much success and rated by a succession of great managers but couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag. Ray Harford did very little, despite being widely regarded as the best coach of his generation.

There's obviously counter argument to that in the sheer number of people doing well in football management despite not even being a player. Jose being the obvious one but there's loads now, the lad who's got Cambridge going really well has never played at any level for example. (Despite me thinking he was our Mark Bonner, he's not!)

Critchley could turn this around, he could not. For me, it's not a lack of credentials - we've tried something, it's been pretty brave. If it doesn't work, we try something else.
 
62years&counting said:
We're missing a decent coach / manager.
Click to expand...
We have a brilliant Coach, what I'm seeing is 11 players on the pitch that are being well coached to play a certain style, our play looks good, however Critchley is not a manager, assistant maybe, but certainly not a standalone manager yet. Jose Riga was similar, coached well, but wasn't a manager IMO.
 
There's no evidence that his coaching is working, in fact the evidence is to the contrary. Has he brought in the wrong type of players?....in several cases, yes.
At Lpool his specific task was to coach talented, cream of the crop young players to play the Lpool way. Vastly different to coaching mid 20's league2 level players at Pool.
 
I know I'll get pelters for this but the one player we have who I would class as a striker is Nuttall. Is he any worse than who Critchley has bought in? I would rehab him, get him fit and play him.
 
62years&counting said:
There's no evidence that his coaching is working, in fact the evidence is to the contrary. Has he brought in the wrong type of players?....in several cases, yes.
At Lpool his specific task was to coach talented, cream of the crop young players to play the Lpool way. Vastly different to coaching mid 20's league2 level players at Pool.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's fair. It's definitely not working to win games, but you can clearly see the players doing things he wants and he's definitely got some stuff through to some players. He's affecting the players in training and getting ideas across.

The question isn't with his coaching, it's in his tactics where we do not seem to match up to other managers awareness of how to set up for particular games and how to alter it as we go.

It might be pedantic but I can see they're coached. If anything, they look over coached to a point where the individual decision making has been taken from them.

I remember the hendry team and they looked uncoached. I literally would watch and think 'it's just a team, thrown out with no idea what to do' - this lot know what to do and seem to be doing it, but it's not working.
 
hertfordseasider said:
I know I'll get pelters for this but the one player we have who I would class as a striker is Nuttall. Is he any worse than who Critchley has bought in? I would rehab him, get him fit and play him.
Click to expand...
He's not come back tho. He's come back for rehab and I read it as he'll go back to Sixfields when that's complete

I'd also see him as far better on the left than the middle. The more I watched him, the more observed that his build up play was often quite decent but his work in the box was awful.

I'd not mind him being about and I'd be happy enough to play him ahead of Bez for example but I want Sullay on that left slot as soon as he's fit.
 
hertfordseasider said:
I know I'll get pelters for this but the one player we have who I would class as a striker is Nuttall. Is he any worse than who Critchley has bought in? I would rehab him, get him fit and play him.
Click to expand...
A curve ball observation but a good one. My problem is that I'm not convinced Nuttall has the desire or motivation to succeed. Is he bothered about playing or is he just happy to sign a contract somewhere and get well paid for not playing.
 
td53 said:
I don't think that's fair. It's definitely not working to win games, but you can clearly see the players doing things he wants and he's definitely got some stuff through to some players. He's affecting the players in training and getting ideas across.

The question isn't with his coaching, it's in his tactics where we do not seem to match up to other managers awareness of how to set up for particular games and how to alter it as we go.

It might be pedantic but I can see they're coached. If anything, they look over coached to a point where the individual decision making has been taken from them.

I remember the hendry team and they looked uncoached. I literally would watch and think 'it's just a team, thrown out with no idea what to do' - this lot know what to do and seem to be doing it, but it's not working.
Click to expand...
It's not working here, primarily because the recruitment has been poor in that mid 20's league2 players / reserves won't be able to play the Lpool way. Also, why sign forwards with no goalscoring pedigree at league1 level. Sadler's money has been wasted by the incompetent trio of Mansford, Johnson and Critchley.
 
He played in the middle for Blackburn U23's and scored loads of goals, I realise he's injured but I think it was a mistake to send him off on loan. I would rather have him and Kaikai up front to be honest but Critchley seems to have dismissed pretty much every player he inherited, Husband and Turton will be out of the team soon, Husband already is.

We have far far far too many wide forwards, it's ridiculous.
 
Rektseasider said:
Ok fair enough.

Yates is only a potential I get that.

CJ has three goals already, despite this impotent style and being marked out of 3 of the games. I think there’s goals in him through the middle.

Madine has a good record behind him. If he were in a 2 with either of the above I could see him getting 10-15 goals in a league season.

I think we Have the players to forge a new Brett and Murphy partnership. Just not being allowed to do it at the moment.
Click to expand...
.....mmm, not so sure that his [Madine] record is that great at all.,
 
62years&counting said:
It's not working here, primarily because the recruitment has been poor in that mid 20's league2 players / reserves won't be able to play the Lpool way. Also, why sign forwards with no goalscoring pedigree at league1 level. Sadler's money has been wasted by the incompetent trio of Mansford, Johnson and Critchley.
Click to expand...
You're over egging it. All money in football is a risk. Mansfield has done a lot of decent stuff commercially, Johnson has found loads of players. The coach has coached and it's evident in how we try to play. The point is he possibly lacks the tactical awareness to alter his coaching and the motivational skills to inspire them.

There's questions, big questions perhaps, but not ones that make me think the entire structure is useless. This is football. Sometimes you do badly.
 
20togo said:
.....mmm, not so sure that his [Madine] record is that great at all.,
Click to expand...
When he’s had a stable place in a club and the side, Sheff Wed and Bolton he’s around 1 in 3.

If he played every week with CJ or Yates developing a partnership I could see him getting 15 goals a season, especially in this league.
 
Rektseasider said:
When he’s had a stable place in a club and the side, Sheff Wed and Bolton he’s around 1 in 3.

If he played every week with CJ or Yates developing a partnership I could see him getting 15 goals a season, especially in this league.
Click to expand...
I did check prior to my post you know. 😉
Bolton and Sheff W 197 apps 50 goals. Much much nearer in fact very close to 1 in 4, than 1 in 3. That ratio doesn't get him 12 goals for us.
 
62years&counting said:
It's not working here, primarily because the recruitment has been poor in that mid 20's league2 players / reserves won't be able to play the Lpool way. Also, why sign forwards with no goalscoring pedigree at league1 level. Sadler's money has been wasted by the incompetent trio of Mansford, Johnson and Critchley.
Click to expand...
Your posts are spot on this one sums up the situation nicely👏
 
One thing I'd like to see in this current crop of players is more of the nasty side of the game. The so called 'game management ' that other teams use against us. Charlton were at it last night but every team we've played just seems to know when to get in a sly ankle tap, shirt tug, winning a throw with a deflection, and my favourite, shielding the ball then falling over at the slightest touch. Seems to work every time with refs we've had as well. We don't seem to do any of that, or if we do we immediately get penalised. It's not what anyone wants to see and I'm sure the coaching purists would rather avoid it, but it's part of the game today and I don't see any evidence of it.
 
20togo said:
I did check prior to my post you know. 😉
Bolton and Sheff W 197 apps 50 goals. Much much nearer in fact very close to 1 in 4, than 1 in 3. That ratio doesn't get him 12 goals for us.
Click to expand...
😂😂. Fair enough I was rounding down 😜.

That was at Championship level though. I still believe him and some of the others would do well playing through the middle in a different formation.
 
Bring Back Standing said:
Incorrect.
He was OUR Mark Bonner.
Click to expand...
He's not?

Our Mark Bonner runs Bonners furniture of Chorley. He's about 45.

That Mark Bonner is a 34 year old who was coaching at Cambridge for years.

I didn't realise that till someone corrected me on the ex player thread about 4 days ago. They're definitely different Mark Bonners

"There's only 2 Mark Bonners"

www.bbc.co.uk

Bonner named permanent Cambridge boss

Cambridge United name caretaker boss Mark Bonner as their head coach until the end of the 2021-22 season.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
td53 said:
You're over egging it. All money in football is a risk. Mansfield has done a lot of decent stuff commercially, Johnson has found loads of players. The coach has coached and it's evident in how we try to play. The point is he possibly lacks the tactical awareness to alter his coaching and the motivational skills to inspire them.

There's questions, big questions perhaps, but not ones that make me think the entire structure is useless. This is football. Sometimes you do badly.
Click to expand...
His name is Mansford not Mansfield. Recruitment was poor last summer, only sick note Kaikai remains. Last January was no better with the exception of KD-H and TM borrowed from a higher level. This summer's recruitment has been similarly poor with money wasted on flops like Yates and Lubala. Critchley is out of his depth and particularly uninspiring.
 
62years&counting said:
His name is Mansford not Mansfield. Recruitment was poor last summer, only sick note Kaikai remains. Last January was no better with the exception of KD-H and TM borrowed from a higher level. This summer's recruitment has been similarly poor with money wasted on flops like Yates and Lubala. Critchley is out of his depth and particularly uninspiring.
Click to expand...
Auto correct!

So is Critchley out of his depth or is everyone incompetent? They're different points.

I'd say there's a distinct possibility Critchley IS out of his depth but them there's also a possibility it will get better. It's always easy to nail colours to the 'its not going to work' position as actually, mathematically speaking, most managers don't succeed.

I'd favour letting him sink or swim rather than drowning him ourselves. I've been very (for me) critical of aspects of his management but I'm seeing lots of assumption about how he can't do things that actually, he might defy. Again, it's mathematically more likely he'll fail but that's why success is sweet when it comes!

I agree the recruitment had been scatter gun. I assume that's ultimately down to the managers, I assume Johnson finds X number of players and Larry and Critch go 'that one, that one, that one' - if Johnson is by default picking the squad, that needs to be clearer but I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed final say on player choice lay with the coach/manager.

I don't agree that the players are simply 'league 2 and no better' - I think there's potential in most, of not all of them and the bigger question is - are there too many of them at once? Are they being given proper tactical instruction? Are they being supported mentally right? Is there a big enough group of senior pros to support that? Are we utilising the whole squad or a chosen few? Why is a player with Thorniley's pedigree who played well in his only start left to rot and a left back at centre half?

Those all come back to Critchley, not the wider structure.

I honestly don't really worry myself about Mansfield (it's done it again ffs) and Johnson. If Critchley is up to it, he'll chuck crap scouting back at Johnson and say 'find more'

Mansford (got it this time) didn't cover himself in glory over the manager search but to be honest, I commend them for who they went for and also, regardless of how it turns out, I commend them for trying something with Critchley.

You live, you learn.
 
td53 said:
Auto correct!

So is Critchley out of his depth or is everyone incompetent? They're different points.

I'd say there's a distinct possibility Critchley IS out of his depth but them there's also a possibility it will get better. It's always easy to nail colours to the 'its not going to work' position as actually, mathematically speaking, most managers don't succeed.

I'd favour letting him sink or swim rather than drowning him ourselves. I've been very (for me) critical of aspects of his management but I'm seeing lots of assumption about how he can't do things that actually, he might defy. Again, it's mathematically more likely he'll fail but that's why success is sweet when it comes!

I agree the recruitment had been scatter gun. I assume that's ultimately down to the managers, I assume Johnson finds X number of players and Larry and Critch go 'that one, that one, that one' - if Johnson is by default picking the squad, that needs to be clearer but I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed final say on player choice lay with the coach/manager.

I don't agree that the players are simply 'league 2 and no better' - I think there's potential in most, of not all of them and the bigger question is - are there too many of them at once? Are they being given proper tactical instruction? Are they being supported mentally right? Is there a big enough group of senior pros to support that? Are we utilising the whole squad or a chosen few? Why is a player with Thorniley's pedigree who played well in his only start left to rot and a left back at centre half?

Those all come back to Critchley, not the wider structure.

I honestly don't really worry myself about Mansfield (it's done it again ffs) and Johnson. If Critchley is up to it, he'll chuck crap scouting back at Johnson and say 'find more'

Mansford (got it this time) didn't cover himself in glory over the manager search but to be honest, I commend them for who they went for and also, regardless of how it turns out, I commend them for trying something with Critchley.

You live, you learn.
Click to expand...
In life you have to learn quickly, or at least give some clear indication that you're learning from your mistakes. The three people I've mentioned have and continue to fail miserably. Sadler was quoted as wanting a promotion push this season. If, as seems likely, we're heading in the wrong direction then I would expect him to take the appropriate action. I should imagine he's becoming increasingly annoyed with the current situation.
 
62years&counting said:
In life you have to learn quickly, or at least give some clear indication that you're learning from your mistakes. The three people I've mentioned have and continue to fail miserably. Sadler was quoted as wanting a promotion push this season. If, as seems likely, we're heading in the wrong direction then I would expect him to take the appropriate action. I should imagine he's becoming increasingly annoyed with the current situation.
Click to expand...
But the evidence of football (despite your point about 'life') is that success takes time. That's the overwhelming evidence. That just sacking people doesn't work.

You are just demanding success or firing like it takes no time to build at all.

He can be annoyed. That's fine. But if he's going to fire everyone in the club after seven matches then I'm afraid he hasn't got the constitution to run the club.

What he should be doing, and I'm sure he is, is thinking 'hmmm - I've appointed people with good CVs and in case of Mansford and Johnson a track record in what they do (the former certainly)

He should be looking at what isn't working and why and then setting targets appropriately.

For example - if I were him, I'd say

"Neil, I've no desire to meddle but talk me through why we always set up the same way - have we got other options? Why aren't we using them?"

"Tommy, are you scouting experience or just youth? Is Neil talking to you about what he wants?"

"Ben, what's the atmosphere like in training? Is he coping? Does he need help?"

Do you think Sadler is incompetent too? He appointed them all!
 
td53 said:
But the evidence of football (despite your point about 'life') is that success takes time. That's the overwhelming evidence. That just sacking people doesn't work.

You are just demanding success or firing like it takes no time to build at all.

He can be annoyed. That's fine. But if he's going to fire everyone in the club after seven matches then I'm afraid he hasn't got the constitution to run the club.

What he should be doing, and I'm sure he is, is thinking 'hmmm - I've appointed people with good CVs and in case of Mansford and Johnson a track record in what they do (the former certainly)

He should be looking at what isn't working and why and then setting targets appropriately.

For example - if I were him, I'd say

"Neil, I've no desire to meddle but talk me through why we always set up the same way - have we got other options? Why aren't we using them?"

"Tommy, are you scouting experience or just youth? Is Neil talking to you about what he wants?"

"Ben, what's the atmosphere like in training? Is he coping? Does he need help?"

Do you think Sadler is incompetent too? He appointed them all!
Click to expand...
Sadler is new to football club ownership and because of his other business interests not as hands on as he may like to be, given that BFC is an expensive new venture. I agree, he will want answers and no doubt want a remedy for our current plight. To date the faith he has put in the 3 man recruitment team is not being repaid so I would expect him to review in the not too distant.
Critchley's overall record in competitive games is P13 W1 D5 L7. That worries me, should worry you and others, and should be of major concern to Sadler!
 
62years&counting said:
Sadler is new to football club ownership and because of his other business interests not as hands on as he may like to be, given that BFC is an expensive new venture. I agree, he will want answers and no doubt want a remedy for our current plight. To date the faith he has put in the 3 man recruitment team is not being repaid so I would expect him to review in the not too distant.
Critchley's overall record in competitive games is P13 W1 D5 L7. That worries me, should worry you and others, and should be of major concern to Sadler!
Click to expand...
I've written at length about what worries me! In my replies to you. Why do you keep citing his record repeatedly? We've all been watching the same games you have. We know!
 
td53 said:
I've written at length about what worries me! In my replies to you. Why do you keep citing his record repeatedly? We've all been watching the same games you have. We know!
Click to expand...
Good, glad you're at ease with the situation. We agree on little and I'm sure that will continue to be the case!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top