Simon and Ben on transfers.

TimperleyTangerine said:
Giving up £200k a year, perhaps £800k over the life of the contract. It’d be a rarity to stay for that sort of money, particularly as he’s a northern lad. I think Robinson is just trying to make a point that he chose to stay and for less money. Oxford have pushed the boat out to keep him, but it doesn’t matter, it’s history and he’s not our player.
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I think the bigger thing is playing at a higher level, prove yourself at Championship level and that £14,000 p/w could become £40,000 p/w or more if a PL club gets interested.

Ultimately, if the guy's happy playing third flight football and Oxford are happy to blow their budget on him, good luck to them both.
 
This line from Scrafton was pretty rich:

"But the club has also missed out on some targets, namely Colby Bishop, Ellis Simms and more recently Cameron Brannagan – with all three scenarios playing out in public."

Yeah, and who is responsible for these being played out in public? Nice use of the passive voice from someone whose job it is to put as much of the club's internal business as possible into as many Gazette articles as possible in order to maximize ad revenue.

Nixon is worse. He's the one who "broke" the Colby Bishop story for his members-only Patreon page.

But of course they wouldn't be able to make money this way if we weren't ravenously gobbling it all up. And fun as it is to drink down a daily stream of new rumors during the summer, this fun has a downside, which we're seeing now.

Imagine we hadn't heard about the club's moves for Bishop and Brannagan. Imagine they had happened but we didn't know. In that world, we'd be spending more time talking about the players that we'd actually signed. We wouldn't have felt this disappointment for losing out on those two.

Do we have a right to be made aware of the club's ongoing negotiations before deals are completed? I say no, but for the sake of argument let's just say yes. Even if we grant that all us fans "deserve" to be kept up on behind-the-scenes negotiations, it's a terrible idea! It puts our business on other clubs' radars and it creates a disincentive for Sadler and Mansford to be ambitious, because they then have to go into damage control mode when deals don't pan out.

Suppose we have a shot at signing a fantastic player, but there are 4 other clubs also trying to sign that player. Suppose we have a 1 in 5 chance of getting that player. I want us to try to get that player anyway!!! We should all want the club to be trying to get that player anyway!!! BUT - if the club know that the second an agent or staffer at another club pass along information to Nixon or Scrafton there will be 10 Gazette articles and 10 AVFTT threads telling us all IT'S HAPPENING!!!!! followed by a bunch of fans pissing and moaning if it ends up not happening (and it has an 80% chance of not coming off), now there's a downside to being ambitious.

The simple fact is that most teams don't end up signing most of the players they'd like to sign. If someone is good, there will be other teams in for him, and only one gets him. So which would we prefer: that the club keep being ambitious and keep trying to make deals happen even when the odds are against us, or that they just don't even bother trying to sign too high a class of player? Because when we listen to people like Nixon and Scrafton feed us the juicy details and then get mad and criticize the club when signings don't come off, we're punishing them for being ambitious.

Thankfully, our pissing and moaning doesn't have THAT much impact. But we know it has some. In the end it's a great deal for Scrafton: he stirs up a bunch of shit, then scores a lengthy interview with SS and BM on the grounds that some shit's been stirred up and they really need to address it.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’ve made the complete opposite move in my career 1966 and taken a drop in salary to move to where I wanted to be.

Happiness is way more important than a few extra quid and the more money you have, the more that becomes apparent.

Edit:

Yes I’d possibly move if the circumstances were as you described, but not necessarily snd it’s quite different ti the circumstances facing CB.
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I'm with you on your personal experience. Footballers are different.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I'm with you on your personal experience. Footballers are different.
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‘Footballers’ covers a wide spectrum of personality types and personal circumstances and so I really don’t think you can make a broad brush stereotypical assumption like that.

If I had a pound for the number of times I’ve heard “Player X is looking for a move back up North / Down South, because he’s unsettled in the area” I’d be a rich man.

Family, location, happiness, feeling valued, social circle etc… Are all serious and important considerations for Footballers, just like they are for anyone else.

Of course it’s a more transient type of occupation, but not for everyone and frequently players will favour a move that suits them in terms of location.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
‘Footballers’ covers a wide spectrum of personality types and personal circumstances and so I really don’t think you can make a broad brush stereotypical assumption like that.

If I had a pound for the number of times I’ve heard “Player X is looking for a move back up North / Down South, because he’s unsettled in the area” I’d be a rich man.

Family, location, happiness, feeling valued, social circle etc… Are all serious and important considerations for Footballers, just like they are for anyone else.

Of course it’s a more transient type of occupation, but not for everyone and frequently players will favour a move that suits them in terms of location.
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I always remember being gutted as a 16 yer old when Gordon Simmonite left us for Lincoln City because his wife got a job with the police down there. What a player he was.
 
KingZobo said:
Great interview, we're so lucky to have SS & BM. Are people forgetting the Oyston days? We're an ambitious club now but still obviously underdogs. I expect a few good loans before the window ends.
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We could have got brannagan if we offered 15k a week wages and 4 million to Oxford but unfortunately bm messed up the deal according to some, I’ll take what we’ve got, the new players look quality & as you say another couple of loans who’ll slot into the first team will make us very competitive, probably not playoff contenders yet but who knows what will happen it’s a mental game this football lark & 2010 proved it
 
Really good stuff and much needed, I like when SS gets a bit feisty!.

You can't really argue with any of it, can you?. (I haven't read the thread yet, I'm sure some have managed it!)

Loved the insight about him saying "go for it" with the league one signings, that's brilliant and I know we had to push the boat out for some of them, Sunderland were in for Jerry too at the time for one.

How refreshing though to have an owner who makes sense and provides rational, intelligent points instead of sneering at us as plebs and suing us.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Woah Voy, you've been trying to use my message to try and prove your point and I've been out working all day so have only seen your comments.

What I said above is it, nothing more and if we take Simms, he chose Sunderland because they are a massive club even though we matched terms, totally understandable.
Bishop may or may not have failed a medical, but at the end of the day he ended up at Ipswich, a league below us and not a bigger club, so we were about to sign him and hey presto he's bak up the M6 on his way to Ipswich. I would say we fucked him about and could have lost him both opportunities by knocking him back, we don't know what the real reasons were but it was a total fuck up.

Brannagan was definitely because he was offered more money back at Oxford, a much smaller club than us but who really wanted him. It just shows money talks and had we offered the same he would have been playing in Tangerine on Saturday.

I've just re-read the article/statement and for me it is really defensive and it just isn't uplifting at all, it's a bit, we'll do what we can but don't expect much on the signings front because we have small amounts of money only. I don't read it and think woohoo, that's exciting, I thought, meh, whupdedo, thanks for that.

I'm not expecting them to pay big transfer fees, a million for us to spend is a big fee and we are making those offers, but we need to start landing some of these players and FFS don't buy players just for the sake of it. I think they should have just kept schtum instead of a statement like that.

We are going to be recovering from what the stains did to our club for a long time and the training ground, East Stand, community pitches, money on the infrastructure is massive and they are doing that, but we are supporters and we want to see the best players we can get play in Tangerine, it's human nature and the disappointment of not landing some players is disappointing.

At the end of the day, maybe I'm more scarred by what has gone before in the previous 50 years, because I am just being cautious/paranoid (delete as appropriate) about what we have and It's going to take some time before I am fully satisfied and I think that's a good stance to take. it doesn't make me right, it's just my opinion, but it's a valid argument and it doesn't bring into question my love for the club, I'm not a nobber and whatever other terms have been thrown about. Be glad people like me, Phil, Mac & AK are keeping the balance. We're all Pool fans, we all want what's best for the club but we don't all think the same debate it but let's not get all precious about it.
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I'm not very excited by your post! And I'm left feeling confused, as usual. 😆 Its all contradictions. What i'm hearing is a sort of confused teenager who isnt getting the excitement they crave. From a club statement. 😆

I agree they should have kept schtum though, it just looks like they are responding to the sort of shite that people like Phil post on here and giving it some credence it clearly doesn't deserve. You cant respond to every village idiot. If you do, dont be surprised of you end up wishing you hadnt bothered!
 
Graham berrys plastic bag said:
We could have got brannagan if we offered 15k a week wages and 4 million to Oxford but unfortunately bm messed up the deal according to some, I’ll take what we’ve got, the new players look quality & as you say another couple of loans who’ll slot into the first team will make us very competitive, probably not playoff contenders yet but who knows what will happen it’s a mental game this football lark & 2010 proved it
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Why would we pay 4 million if his release clause is 1.3 million?

Who is saying BM messed up the deal too? I imagine none of them were involved in the deal and it's typical people on here just spouting their opinion as fact.
 
KingZobo said:
Why would we pay 4 million if his release clause is 1.3 million?

Who is saying BM messed up the deal too? I imagine none of them were involved in the deal and it's typical people on here just spouting their opinion as fact.
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That’s my point, loads of people are saying mansford made a hash of the negotiations if you’ve read the posts on here but if he was in a position to offer silly wages & a big fee to Oxford then the deal would have gone through, the release clause is irrelevant as well the fee would be the biggest Oxford could get if a few clubs were after him & started bidding against each other
 
Graham berrys plastic bag said:
That’s my point, loads of people are saying mansford made a hash of the negotiations if you’ve read the posts on here but if he was in a position to offer silly wages & a big fee to Oxford then the deal would have gone through, the release clause is irrelevant as well the fee would be the biggest Oxford could get if a few clubs were after him & started bidding against each other
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Clubs won't get into a bidding war above the release clause, anyone who meets the release can talk to and sign the player, the only competition would be over wages.
 
Graham berrys plastic bag said:
That’s my point, loads of people are saying mansford made a hash of the negotiations if you’ve read the posts on here but if he was in a position to offer silly wages & a big fee to Oxford then the deal would have gone through, the release clause is irrelevant as well the fee would be the biggest Oxford could get if a few clubs were after him & started bidding against each other
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Brannagan was never interested in coming, he's settled in Oxford.
 
fcblackpool said:
After talking to him for 2 windows we went back in. He was interested, no doubt about that. You don't keep going for someone without encouragement.

Should have happened in June as I've said.
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Well... His Agent had certainly been keen to encourage someone to trigger the release clause and unlike the way we conduct our transfer dealings under normal circumstances, the interest in Brannagan was frequently made public knowledge.

It seems to me that perhaps Blackpool was the only leverage that they had and so it's hardly surprising that they would encourage the interest, regardless of their preferred outcome, which may well have been to secure preferable terms where he was all along.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Well... His Agent had certainly been keen to encourage someone to trigger the release clause and unlike the way we conduct our transfer dealings under normal circumstances, the interest in Brannagan was frequently made public knowledge.

It seems to me that perhaps Blackpool was the only leverage that they had and so it's hardly surprising that they would encourage the interest, regardless of their preferred outcome, which may well have been to secure preferable terms where he was all along.
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I just think Oxford panicked. Maybe paid him over the odds just to avoid the mess given they are going for promotion. Time was limited.

Interestingly many here are prepared to see the window pan out, Oxford perhaps said, we need a CM like CB so lets not lose him.
 
fcblackpool said:
I just think Oxford panicked. Maybe paid him over the odds just to avoid the mess given they are going for promotion. Time was limited.

Interestingly many here are prepared to see the window pan out, Oxford perhaps said, we need a CM like CB so lets not lose him.
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The timing certainly placed maximum pressure on Oxford that's for certain. Whether that was just by chance or contrived...Who knows..

I also wonder how much of a factor Critchley might have had on any earlier expressed interest by the player / agent..
 
fcblackpool said:
After talking to him for 2 windows we went back in. He was interested, no doubt about that. You don't keep going for someone without encouragement.

Should have happened in June as I've said.
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Honestly, he was never keen or it would have happened. We were pushing it, it got to personal terms once (this time) and he wasn't interested.

Personally think his agent used us to bump his contract up.
 
KingZobo said:
Honestly, he was never keen or it would have happened. We were pushing it, it got to personal terms once (this time) and he wasn't interested.

Personally think his agent used us to bump his contract up.
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If you knew he was never keen and a user then someone taking hundreds of thousands of pounds out of the football club per annum to be perceptive on this stuff, before we even know it's a thing, should have known that too. Should have moved on earlier and given the club a better chance of progression. That's where the main line of questioning is, I think.
 
poolfc said:
If you knew he was never keen and a user then someone taking hundreds of thousands of pounds out of the football club per annum to be perceptive on this stuff, before we even know it's a thing, should have known that too. Should have moved on earlier and given the club a better chance of progression. That's where the main line of questioning is, I think.
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Do you think Zobo is Ben Mansford? 😆

It looks very much as if CBs agent engineered a pay rise I think. Appleton was keen so we went along with it, possibly more in hope than expectation. The leaking of it all was a bit tell tale. Agent provocateur!
 
poolfc said:
If you knew he was never keen and a user then someone taking hundreds of thousands of pounds out of the football club per annum to be perceptive on this stuff, before we even know it's a thing, should have known that too. Should have moved on earlier and given the club a better chance of progression. That's where the main line of questioning is, I think.
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Even if you did have a feeling that the player was playing games, if his agent is saying he’s up for it and the player meets your needs, can you eliminate him purely on that ‘gut feeling’ ?

I’m not sure you can….And I’m especially sure that we can’t afford to do so as players are few and far between as it is.

I think you have to take agent and player on trust and just accept that occasionally you’ll get you fingers burnt.
 
poolfc said:
If you knew he was never keen and a user then someone taking hundreds of thousands of pounds out of the football club per annum to be perceptive on this stuff, before we even know it's a thing, should have known that too. Should have moved on earlier and given the club a better chance of progression. That's where the main line of questioning is, I think.
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I think his agents pulled a blinders, Sadler mentioned something in the gazette about his new deal being ridiculous for a L1 player.
 
voyeur said:
Do you think Zobo is Ben Mansford? 😆

It looks very much as if CBs agent engineered a pay rise I think. Appleton was keen so we went along with it, possibly more in hope than expectation. The leaking of it all was a bit tell tale. Agent provocateur!
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Haha no, my friend plays in the youth team/trains with the first team, you hear bits and pieces around the place.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Even if you did have a feeling that the player was playing games, if his agent is saying he’s up for it and the player meets your needs, can you eliminate him purely on that ‘gut feeling’ ?

I’m not sure you can….And I’m especially sure that we can’t afford to do so as players are few and far between as it is.

I think you have to take agent and player on trust and just accept that occasionally you’ll get you fingers burnt.
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Taking his agent on trust? Maybe that is where we are not quite getting it right.
 
basilexile said:
Taking his agent on trust? Maybe that is where we are not quite getting it right.
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So what do you suggest we do?

Just not bother trying to sign players because they have dodgy agents?

If you want to sign players then at some point you’ve got to be out there making offers. That means you’re going to get stung occasionally… The alternative is not to get involved and what use is not being involved…

You want to win a prize, you’ve got to buy a raffle ticket… simple as.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So what do you suggest we do?

Just not bother trying to sign players because they have dodgy agents?

If you want to sign players then at some point you’ve got to be out there making offers. That means you’re going to get stung occasionally… The alternative is not to get involved and what use is not being involved…

You want to win a prize, you’ve got to buy a raffle ticket… simple as.
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If you employ a poacher turned game keeper, you might hope he would sniff out the poacher.
 
basilexile said:
If you employ a poacher turned game keeper, you might hope he would sniff out the poacher.
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Like I said... And if he does think he's sniffed him out, what do we do?

Do we take a chance and at least try to sign the player OR do we just not bother and reduce our chances of signing anyone further....?

What happens if our 'poacher come gamekeeper' is wrong ?

I'm not sure we can afford to just not have a crack at signing players we are interested in, even if we strongly suspect that something is untoward.... I think people are living in a complete dreamworld and just dreaming up excuses / reasons to have a pop.

Can you imagine the furore on here if Ben Mansford had said, "We were ready to activate the Buy Out Clause of Cameron Brannagan, but then I got a bad feeling about the deal and we just decided not to bother"
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Like I said... And if he does think he's sniffed him out, what do we do?

Do we take a chance and at least try to sign the player OR do we just not bother and reduce our chances of signing anyone further....?

What happens if our 'poacher come gamekeeper' is wrong ?

I'm not sure we can afford to just not have a crack at signing players we are interested in, even if we strongly suspect that something is untoward.... I think people are living in a complete dreamworld and just dreaming up excuses / reasons to have a pop.

Can you imagine the furore on here if Ben Mansford had said, "We were ready to activate the Buy Out Clause of Cameron Brannagan, but then I got a bad feeling about the deal and we just decided not to bother"
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I guess if he had sniffed it out and not met the release clause there would have been no explanation due. I guess my concern is having been played will other agents see us as an easy touch? I hope not and until we are in a stronger financial position I think I would rather gamble on the loan market, rather than high salaries to average players.
 
I think they've found themselves a bit out of their depth running the club. You need fortunes to run these clubs and lets face it, they are endless money pits. I think if someone wanted to buy it from him for what he paid, he'd snap their hand off.
 
basilexile said:
I guess if he had sniffed it out and not met the release clause there would have been no explanation due. I guess my concern is having been played will other agents see us as an easy touch? I hope not and until we are in a stronger financial position I think I would rather gamble on the loan market, rather than high salaries to average players.
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No there wouldn't have been an explanation due, but what if 1 out of every 10 that we think we've 'sniffed out' would have actually signed for us?
 
coloradoan said:
This line from Scrafton was pretty rich:

"But the club has also missed out on some targets, namely Colby Bishop, Ellis Simms and more recently Cameron Brannagan – with all three scenarios playing out in public."

Yeah, and who is responsible for these being played out in public? Nice use of the passive voice from someone whose job it is to put as much of the club's internal business as possible into as many Gazette articles as possible in order to maximize ad revenue.
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However, where do they get their info from? Agents who want the world to know their player is available and on the verge of signing for someone. What happens then? Money comes in to play and that's when deals are scuppered.
 
Reading back that article, my main concern is how uncompetitive we've been in getting players in and the Rotherham and Sheff Wed bids of £1 million for their players as well as Branagan etc just make me wonder if we could be throwing all the money in the world at this but for some reason the club just isn't an attractive proposition.
 
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