Suella

Shandypants said:
Honestly you shouldn't have bothered, he's self confessed to having zero interest in politics.
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I thibk the conflict of war is a heelluva lot more than just politics. What is happening has nothing to do with a red v blue political debate of UK politics. I generally leave that to obsessives like you whose lives it seems to dominate.
 
20togo said:
Irrespective of what SB said, i stand by my view that march should not have took place yesterday. It brought the extreme right out and the violence that followed from them who perhaps would not have been there if the march had been cancelled and deferred for a week. There was also a significant number of arrests also from the "pro" march where a "mob" broke away. You only have to look on the Sky News website to see pictures of deeply offensive banners as well as peoples support of Hamas. So nothing to do with peace whatsoever. It was inevitable there would be trouble on a day/ weekend which should be sacrosanct in the calendar for citizens of this country to remember those live lost. For those of who you were advocating the march should take place then like it or not the weekend has been tarnished by events of yesterday. And it could and should have
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Who's to say the extreme right won't be out the following week?

This happened as a direct result of inflammatory language from someone who really should know better, except it was done deliberately to build their own power base regardless of the consequences.
 
Wizaard said:
Who's to say the extreme right won't be out the following week?

This happened as a direct result of inflammatory language from someone who really should know better, except it was done deliberately to build their own power base regardless of the consequences.
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not relevant at all. Last weekend as i've said was sacrosanct imo in the British calendar. If the march had been cancelled then the right wing would not have had a need to be there. Every other weekend is different and as i've repeatedly said it should have been deferred to this weekend. And yes, if it was i daresay the right wing thugs would have turned up. So ask yourself this, what has the main topic of discussion been before during an since. It's not the reflection of lives lost in previous wars is it? You know full well what it's been all about.
 
20togo said:
not relevant at all. Last weekend as i've said was sacrosanct imo in the British calendar. If the march had been cancelled then the right wing would not have had a need to be there. Every other weekend is different and as i've repeatedly said it should have been deferred to this weekend. And yes, if it was i daresay the right wing thugs would have turned up. So ask yourself this, what has the main topic of discussion been before during an since. It's not the reflection of lives lost in previous wars is it? You know full well what it's been all about.
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Sacrosanct in the British calendar? The whole weekend? 2 minutes on the 11th and a parade on the Sunday. Always has been always will be.

The rest of the Saturday is a normal day
That's why we went to the game, observed the minute's silence, and that was that.

That's not disrespectful, that is how it is.
 
Wizaard said:
Sacrosanct in the British calendar? The whole weekend? 2 minutes on the 11th and a parade on the Sunday. Always has been always will be.

The rest of the Saturday is a normal day
That's why we went to the game, observed the minute's silence, and that was that.

That's not disrespectful, that is how it is.
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no it's not a normal day. Did you observe a minutes silence at Bolton? Did every other football match played on saturday do the same. Tell me what's normal about that or do you think that takes place every weekend. The fact it takes place makes it not a normal weekend. Jeez, your argument suggests that after the ceremony at the Cenotaph it's just a normal day. The silence takes place on both days. It's something that doesn't happen on any other weekend and therefore it's not normal.
 
20togo said:
no, i don't know about the accuracy of the figures but take them at face value. Yep, I do condemn the Israeli settlers and if as such things get back to any sort of normality and smiliarity then it's an issue that needs addressing and firm action happening. And yes, as I've said i do have concerns over Israels intentions for Gaza and the possible continued occupation of the land. I understand their need to seek out and eliminate if possible Hamas but assuming that Israels intentions are honourable it does beg the question of what would the Gazan people be returning too. A flattened wasteland. So Israel needs to be accountable and playing a major role in restoring the landscape of Gaza to normality.

Now all that said, you didn't really address my point.
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Well maybe that was because it wasn’t very clear what point you were actually making.

Was it that there’s a time limit on responding to posts and if you don’t that means you’re deemed antisemitic?

Was it that Arab countries are all utterly antisemitic while Israel is as pure as the driven snow (essentially April’s inference)?

Or was it that there are antisemites on the left as well as the right?

If it was the last point, then I’d agree with you and it’s a point that’s also made by many Jewish left wingers when criticising other non Jewish left wingers. That said, as usual, it’s also more complicated.

It’s been a tactic of Zionists for a while now to dismiss any criticism of Israeli policy as automatically antisemitic. That is, of course, complete bollux. You yourself have made comments that are critical of aspects of Israeli policy (in the very post I’m replying to) but I doubt anyone would accuse you of being an antisemite. But the point is, it’s actually quite difficult to distinguish between faux outrage and when someone finds something genuinely offensive. The “From the river to the sea” chant falls into that category. I have no doubt that some Jewish people find it very threatening and offensive (and no doubt some of the people who chant it do intend to intimidate and cause offence), but equally I’m sure some people (including Braverman) manufacture outrage as it’s a convenient way of undermining a peace march that’s calling for a ceasefire designed to stop the slaughter, and enabling her to label it a “hate march”
 
20togo said:
no it's not a normal day. Did you observe a minutes silence at Bolton? Did every other football match played on saturday do the same. Tell me what's normal about that or do you think that takes place every weekend. The fact it takes place makes it not a normal weekend. Jeez, your argument suggests that after the ceremony at the Cenotaph it's just a normal day. The silence takes place on both days. It's something that doesn't happen on any other weekend and therefore it's not normal.
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Yes, for a minute, then the rest of the day was back to football, as it is every year.

To say people reflect on war for the whole weekend is absolute hogwash.
 
20togo said:
I thibk the conflict of war is a heelluva lot more than just politics. What is happening has nothing to do with a red v blue political debate of UK politics. I generally leave that to obsessives like you whose lives it seems to dominate.
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I'm not the who writes wall to wall responses on political threads 🙄
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Well maybe that was because it wasn’t very clear what point you were actually making.

Was it that there’s a time limit on responding to posts and if you don’t that means you’re deemed antisemitic?

Was it that Arab countries are all utterly antisemitic while Israel is as pure as the driven snow (essentially April’s inference)?

Or was it that there are antisemites on the left as well as the right?

If it was the last point, then I’d agree with you and it’s a point that’s also made by many Jewish left wingers when criticising other non Jewish left wingers. That said, as usual, it’s also more complicated.

It’s been a tactic of Zionists for a while now to dismiss any criticism of Israeli policy as automatically antisemitic. That is, of course, complete bollux. You yourself have made comments that are critical of aspects of Israeli policy (in the very post I’m replying to) but I doubt anyone would accuse you of being an antisemite. But the point is, it’s actually quite difficult to distinguish between faux outrage and when someone finds something genuinely offensive. The “From the river to the sea” chant falls into that category. I have no doubt that some Jewish people find it very threatening and offensive (and no doubt some of the people who chant it do intend to intimidate and cause offence), but equally I’m sure some people (including Braverman) manufacture outrage as it’s a convenient way of undermining a peace march that’s calling for a ceasefire designed to stop the slaughter, and enabling her to label it a “hate march”
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Keep it short, it was your last point and that maybe it's some on here too.
 
Wizaard said:
Yes, for a minute, then the rest of the day was back to football, as it is every year.

To say people reflect on war for the whole weekend is absolute hogwash.
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not what i'm saying at all. But it's a simple case that this last weekend has focused very little on the remembrance of our fallen heroes and been all about the protest march. And if the march hadn't taken place then the weekend would have been what it was intended to be about. To say otherwise is absolute hogwash. Evidence? Read this msb and watch what all the debate has been about.
 
Shandypants said:
I'm not the who writes wall to wall responses on political threads 🙄
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It's pretty sad that you consider a war where thousands have been killed on both sides to be all about politics. It's only people like you who want to bring the red v blue of British politics into it. But if British politics is the be all and end all for you then that's your choice. Sad as i think that is.
 
20togo said:
It's pretty sad that you consider a war where thousands have been killed on both sides to be all about politics. It's only people like you who want to bring the red v blue of British politics into it. But if British politics is the be all and end all for you then that's your choice. Sad as i think that is.
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Were you a chuckle brother, to me to you.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
That’s typical of you going back 70 odd years.
Why don’t we go back even further to 1933 had someone assassinated Hitler before he became chancellor then 6 million Jews wouldn’t have been murdered and 20 million soldiers world wide wouldn’t have lost their lives in WW2.
It’s not an excuse it’s a fact what ignited this current situation it’s easy going back in history saying if only.
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You don't rate history and its consequences for the present, do you? History shapes the present.
 
I've been to Anne Frank's house in Amsterdam this evening.

Politicians played the them and us card to disastrous effect in the 30s and it would appear that some are trying it again.

It's about time we took notice of history and don't replay the endless cycle of blaming minorities for economic ills here and now.

Otherwise, it doesn't take much for it to go horribly wrong.

Seems like it couldn't happen again but it's all too easy to fall into it, and having a Minister for 'Anti Wokery' is a step on the way to silencing opposition.
 
Wizaard said:
I've been to Anne Frank's house in Amsterdam this evening.

Politicians played the them and us card to disastrous effect in the 30s and it would appear that some are trying it again.

It's about time we took notice of history and don't replay the endless cycle of blaming minorities for economic ills here and now.

Otherwise, it doesn't take much for it to go horribly wrong.

Seems like it couldn't happen again but it's all too easy to fall into it, and having a Minister for 'Anti Wokery' is a step on the way to silencing opposition.
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Yep, using the populist broadcaster McVile.
 
Archibald Knox said:
…she said, as she was kicked out of government with little ceremony.

That implies she is working on a blistering “resignation” speech, which is unlikely to be comfortable listening for Rish!

I am preparing the popcorn as we speak. This “blue-on-blue” action should be fun.
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The popcorn is very tasty. Crikey, I never thought it would be this entertaining.

Sunak has only one decision now. He cannot take this blatant mutiny in his party. If I were him, I would have the local Con Party chairman of Braverman’s constituency visit him in Downing St and demand she be deselected.
 
We went to see Anna’s hiding place last week and it’s very moving and sad but everyone needs to be reminded about the way the Jews were treated. Only her dad survived and all his family were killed but their memory lives on in her amazing diary.
 
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