Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Not necessarily
The French
- Thread starter Thelaneends1
- Start date
S
Scratcher67
Guest
Why would they? A good chance to stick the boot in. What would our Brexit loving mob do if the tables were turned?
Thelaneends1
Well-known member
Thelaneends1
Well-known member
Berlin.[154] De Gaulle refused to allow any British participation in the victory parade in Paris. However, among the vehicles that took part was an ambulance from the Hadfield-Spears Ambulance Unit, staffed by French doctors and British nurses. One of the nurses was Mary Spears, who had set up the unit and had worked almost continuously since the Battle of France with Free French forces in the Middle East, North Africa and Italy. Mary's husband was General Edward Spears, the British liaison to the Free French who had personally spirited de Gaulle to safety in Britain in 1940. When de Gaulle saw the Union Flags and Tricolours side by side on the ambulance, and heard French soldiers cheering, "Voilà Spears! Vive Spears!", he ordered that the unit be closed down immediately and its British staff sent home. A number of French troops returned their medals in protest and Mary wrote, "it is a pitiful business when a great man suddenly becomes small."[158]
Another confrontation with the Americans broke out soon after the armistice when the French sent troops to occupy the French-speaking Italian border region of Val d'Aoste. The French commander threatened to open fire on American troops if they tried to stop them, and an irate Truman ordered the immediate end to all arms shipments to France. Truman sent de Gaulle an angry letter saying that he found it unbelievable that the French could threaten to attack American troops after they had done so much to liberate France.
Another confrontation with the Americans broke out soon after the armistice when the French sent troops to occupy the French-speaking Italian border region of Val d'Aoste. The French commander threatened to open fire on American troops if they tried to stop them, and an irate Truman ordered the immediate end to all arms shipments to France. Truman sent de Gaulle an angry letter saying that he found it unbelievable that the French could threaten to attack American troops after they had done so much to liberate France.
BlackpoolsFinest
Well-known member
If The Daily Mail had a message board.......
Archibald Knox
Well-known member
That is simply not true and very wide of the mark. A complete inversion of the history. It was all down to tactics and operational decisions. Sorry to resort to C&P but from Wiki...
At the start of the war, France had one of the largest tank forces in the world along with the Soviet, British and German forces. They were the 2nd largest manufacturer after the Soviet Union. The French had planned for a defensive war and built tanks accordingly; so their tanks were designed to be heavily armoured. Within France and its colonies, roughly 5,800 tanks were available during the time of the German offensive, and some when they came into contact were effective against the German tanks.
In armour and firepower, French tanks were generally not inferior to their German counterparts. In one incident, a single Char B1 "Eure" was able to destroy thirteen German tanks within a few minutes in Stonne on 16 May 1940, all of them Panzer III and Panzer IV tanks. The 37mm and 20mm guns the Germans used were ineffective at penetrating the thick armour of the B1, which was able to return safely despite being hit a large number of times. Even General Rommel was surprised at how the French tanks withstood the German tank shells and had to resort to using the German 88 artillery as antitank guns against the French tanks to knock them out.
In the Battle of France, despite an advantage in number and armour against the Germans, the French tanks were not used to good enough effect. Ironically, cooperation with the infantry was poor.
Setbacks the French military suffered were more related to strategy, tactics and organisation than technology and design. Almost 80 percent of French tanks did not have radios, since the battle doctrine employed by the French military was more a slow-paced, deliberate conformance to planned maneuvers. French tank warfare was often restricted with tanks being assigned for infantry support. Unlike Germany, which had special Panzerwaffe divisions, France did not separate tanks from the Infantry arm, and were unable to respond quickly to the Blitzkrieg tactics employed by the Germans, which involved rapid movement, mission-type orders and combined-arms tactics.
Tanks of France - Wikipedia
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1950`spoolfan
Well-known member
Well sometimes you live and learn far more on here than I ever imagined . I naively joined around 10 years ago to express my disgust at the cancerous Oystons bleeding our club dry for which I was quickly and roundly condemned by some ("how dare you connect such a disease with our club`s owners.") But along with some opinionated ill informed dross on here there is also much fascinating and well informed debate as in this thread which is always worth searching for and learned from especially on a quiet Covid restricted Sunday afternoon, a bit like Sundays were in the old days which reminds me of that Tony Hancock programme about a particularly boring Sunday. Anyone remember that one?
Apologies for my digression .My views on the French are mixed .My experience with friends of my ex wife`s who we had holidays with were fine although she was fluent in French ,I wasn`t but they were from Brittany whose inhabitants I suspect favour us much more than those in the rest of France but happy days in happier times for me.
Apologies for my digression .My views on the French are mixed .My experience with friends of my ex wife`s who we had holidays with were fine although she was fluent in French ,I wasn`t but they were from Brittany whose inhabitants I suspect favour us much more than those in the rest of France but happy days in happier times for me.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
I remember the Hancock’s Half Hour Sunday episode. Lots of sighing, complaining about Hattie Jaques gravy and waiting for TV to start.
Not too far removed from reality really. The God slot and Songs of Bloody Praise. But there was usually a good film on about 7.15.
My experiences with people are mixed, but usually good, I think nationality is a poor indicator of the nature of a person.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
That’s interesting. I’d always assumed at the start of the war the German tanks were superior. And I suppose they were but only in terms of mobility. Speed of armour and air support against infantry was what made Blitzkreig so effective.That is simply not true and very wide of the mark. A complete inversion of the history. It was all down to tactics and operational decisions. Sorry to resort to C&P but from Wiki...
At the start of the war, France had one of the largest tank forces in the world along with the Soviet, British and German forces. They were the 2nd largest manufacturer after the Soviet Union. The French had planned for a defensive war and built tanks accordingly; so their tanks were designed to be heavily armoured. Within France and its colonies, roughly 5,800 tanks were available during the time of the German offensive, and some when they came into contact were effective against the German tanks.
In armour and firepower, French tanks were generally not inferior to their German counterparts. In one incident, a single Char B1 "Eure" was able to destroy thirteen German tanks within a few minutes in Stonne on 16 May 1940, all of them Panzer III and Panzer IV tanks. The 37mm and 20mm guns the Germans used were ineffective at penetrating the thick armour of the B1, which was able to return safely despite being hit a large number of times. Even General Rommel was surprised at how the French tanks withstood the German tank shells and had to resort to using the German 88 artillery as antitank guns against the French tanks to knock them out.
In the Battle of France, despite an advantage in number and armour against the Germans, the French tanks were not used to good enough effect. Ironically, cooperation with the infantry was poor.
Setbacks the French military suffered were more related to strategy, tactics and organisation than technology and design. Almost 80 percent of French tanks did not have radios, since the battle doctrine employed by the French military was more a slow-paced, deliberate conformance to planned maneuvers. French tank warfare was often restricted with tanks being assigned for infantry support. Unlike Germany, which had special Panzerwaffe divisions, France did not separate tanks from the Infantry arm, and were unable to respond quickly to the Blitzkrieg tactics employed by the Germans, which involved rapid movement, mission-type orders and combined-arms tactics.
Tanks of France - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
I agree. And unfortunately it’s the unpleasant people who stick in the mind.
Most of them have been English!!
CompleteControl
Well-known member
Almost a third of the German tanks in 1940 were either captured Skodas from Czechoslovakia or built in Skoda factories.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Didn’t know that either.
CompleteControl
Well-known member
One of the other factors in German success was the front lines troops heavy use of Pervitin (speed) which allowed them to fight on when the allied soldiers were exhausted.
Check out Norman Ohlers book Blitzed. Drug use in Nazi Germany.
Hitler's dependency on drugs explains some of his irrational decisions.
Thelaneends1
Well-known member
Pathé newsreel showing De Gaulle and Churchill riding in the same car down the Champs Elysées, standing together at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and saluting the troops of various nations together.
Rejoice, laneends, you can stop hating the French now
And the woak weirdos want this man removing from our history.
John Craven's Newsround
Well-known member
They probably read your posts
straightatthewall
Well-known member
Despite being up against a relative cavalcade of absolute cancerous boils of threads, this one could be a candidate for the opening offering on an AVFTT Greatest (s)Hits.
Congratulations to all.
Congratulations to all.
Hertsseasider
Well-known member
I admit to being a little biased but this is a very embarrassing thread.
On my last visit, we were in a cafe and a family of 4 entered. After some muttering, the mum walked up to the bar and said "hello do you serve coffee" not even an attempt to respect the French language.
I'd hazard a guess that for every brit that is fluent in Fench, there are 50 the other way. No wonder they laugh at us.
Bon nuit
On my last visit, we were in a cafe and a family of 4 entered. After some muttering, the mum walked up to the bar and said "hello do you serve coffee" not even an attempt to respect the French language.
I'd hazard a guess that for every brit that is fluent in Fench, there are 50 the other way. No wonder they laugh at us.
Bon nuit
Maybe we could go through all the countries of the EU at the rate of 1 a week, might see us through lockdown!Despite being up against a relative cavalcade of absolute cancerous boils of threads, this one could be a candidate for the opening offering on an AVFTT Greatest (s)Hits.
Congratulations to all.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Not French related at all but similar experience with the English abroad struggling with the old foreign lingo.
Barcelona. Business trip. Female colleague dashing for a taxi tripped on high heels and long skirt and kissed the pavement. Two other female colleagues took her to hospital, walked to the reception desk and came out with the immortal line “My Amigo has fallen over”.
You have to laugh. Well I did anyway when I was told.
Thelaneends1
Well-known member
Despite being up against a relative cavalcade of absolute cancerous boils of threads, this one could be a candidate for the opening offering on an AVFTT Greatest (s)Hits.
Congratulations to all.
[/QUOT1992 my friends and me went for a few days in caen to visit the beach landing sites and to pay our respects to all who gave their lives for what we now call freedom.
On the first evening we sat down for a meal in a local restaurant and within a couple of minutes a French family sat opposite stood up and moved to another table at the other end of the restaurant. The waiter was Italian I asked why did they move and embarrassingly he replied I don't think they like you English
Thelaneends1
Well-known member
This was propaganda to show allegiance to the French and to hide their embarrassment of no resistance to the Nazis.Pathé newsreel showing De Gaulle and Churchill riding in the same car down the Champs Elysées, standing together at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and saluting the troops of various nations together.
Rejoice, laneends, you can stop hating the French now
Please read De Gaulles life story and you will then understand gube man.
Thank you for this Archie, the information quoted came from a biography of De Gaulle - I wonder if the author was trying to massage the actualite ?That is simply not true and very wide of the mark. A complete inversion of the history. It was all down to tactics and operational decisions. Sorry to resort to C&P but from Wiki...
At the start of the war, France had one of the largest tank forces in the world along with the Soviet, British and German forces. They were the 2nd largest manufacturer after the Soviet Union. The French had planned for a defensive war and built tanks accordingly; so their tanks were designed to be heavily armoured. Within France and its colonies, roughly 5,800 tanks were available during the time of the German offensive, and some when they came into contact were effective against the German tanks.
In armour and firepower, French tanks were generally not inferior to their German counterparts. In one incident, a single Char B1 "Eure" was able to destroy thirteen German tanks within a few minutes in Stonne on 16 May 1940, all of them Panzer III and Panzer IV tanks. The 37mm and 20mm guns the Germans used were ineffective at penetrating the thick armour of the B1, which was able to return safely despite being hit a large number of times. Even General Rommel was surprised at how the French tanks withstood the German tank shells and had to resort to using the German 88 artillery as antitank guns against the French tanks to knock them out.
In the Battle of France, despite an advantage in number and armour against the Germans, the French tanks were not used to good enough effect. Ironically, cooperation with the infantry was poor.
Setbacks the French military suffered were more related to strategy, tactics and organisation than technology and design. Almost 80 percent of French tanks did not have radios, since the battle doctrine employed by the French military was more a slow-paced, deliberate conformance to planned maneuvers. French tank warfare was often restricted with tanks being assigned for infantry support. Unlike Germany, which had special Panzerwaffe divisions, France did not separate tanks from the Infantry arm, and were unable to respond quickly to the Blitzkrieg tactics employed by the Germans, which involved rapid movement, mission-type orders and combined-arms tactics.
Tanks of France - Wikipedia
Wizaard
Well-known member
So you now admit that Churchill was there and it banned, which was your original claim?
Is it fair to say that your dislike of the Germans exceeds your dislike of the French ?
Thelaneends1
Well-known member
Churchill was there but you need to do more research before spouting hour inaccuracies.
Wizaard
Well-known member
I've made no claims whatsoever. You said De Gaulle led the parade and stopped the British and Americans taking part.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
I like France and I like the French people I've met.
There will have their fair share of dickheads, but you get them all over.
I like the fact they keep their governments in check with direct action and I like their food and way of life.
Macron appears to have small man syndrome which is affecting his judgement. Everything he does appears to be about posturing. Shame really.
He'll be voted out at the next election.
There will have their fair share of dickheads, but you get them all over.
I like the fact they keep their governments in check with direct action and I like their food and way of life.
Macron appears to have small man syndrome which is affecting his judgement. Everything he does appears to be about posturing. Shame really.
He'll be voted out at the next election.
Recidivist3
Well-known member
Despite SATW’s wonderful condemnation of this thread, 
, I think it’s one of the most fascinating threads that I’ve seen in a while.
Thelaneends1 appears to be fascinated by the man, Charles de Gaulle, whose actions have led TLE to hate the French as a nation. ‘Know thy enemy’ springs to mind.
His opening gambit, ‘Why can’t the French just let Brexit go it’s all over let’s move on’ is seemingly conjured up out of nothing, though clearly triggered by something.
Despite a focus on CDG, his most telling comment, for me at least, was
‘So why do we kiss their arses’
Here speaks a man who feels let down, betrayed even, by ... by who? ... the government ? his fellow countrymen? Only TLE knows the answer to that
His argument for his hatred of the French is simple, though bizarre,
‘De Gaulle took it upon himself to lead the victory parade down the Champs Elysées ignoring the allies that’s why I hate the French’
Despite the evidence presented by the Pathé newsreel, showing him with Churchill that day, it would also appear to be true that, yes, at some point during that day, he did walk alone, ahead of the victory parade.
If this led to TLE’s hatred of CDG then fine, though as Scara, with whom I concur on this, has often remarked, ‘hatred is a very strong emotion’, and whatever CDG was, he was never an enemy to hate.
But to hate a whole nation ... and to hate them in totality ... 77 years after the event ....
TLE’s confused view of history, that his grandfather, ‘amongst many others died on the Normandy beaches for these tossers’, that the French ‘never had a navy’ or that, by removing a statue of Churchill from Parliament Square, Churchill would, somehow be removed from our history only serve to obscure the ‘facts’ that he did get right and he argues that people who responded to his incorrect assertion that CDG ignored the allies at the Victory Parade by presenting evidence to the contrary, should do more research
As an aside, Archibald Knox described the intriguingly named CCF Skiver’s comments about CDG’s attempts to get the French military to invest in the mechanisation of armed forces as ‘Simply not true ... very wide of the mark ... a complete inversion of the history’
From what I’ve read in the last hour, CCF nailed it and it would appear that Rommel and co. took more heed of CDG’s scribblings than did the French political and military leaders. Still you pays your money and takes your choice where history is concerned
I would recommend two articles
1) How De Gaulle rescued France - from the New Yorker magazine
www.newyorker.com
and
2) The audacity of De Gaulle - from the Hoover Institute
www.hoover.org
(Other publications are available)
To sum up I would suggest that, whatever provoked TLE to make his opening statement, he needs to do some letting go of his own. He may disagree
, I think it’s one of the most fascinating threads that I’ve seen in a while.Thelaneends1 appears to be fascinated by the man, Charles de Gaulle, whose actions have led TLE to hate the French as a nation. ‘Know thy enemy’ springs to mind.
His opening gambit, ‘Why can’t the French just let Brexit go it’s all over let’s move on’ is seemingly conjured up out of nothing, though clearly triggered by something.
Despite a focus on CDG, his most telling comment, for me at least, was
‘So why do we kiss their arses’
Here speaks a man who feels let down, betrayed even, by ... by who? ... the government ? his fellow countrymen? Only TLE knows the answer to that
His argument for his hatred of the French is simple, though bizarre,
‘De Gaulle took it upon himself to lead the victory parade down the Champs Elysées ignoring the allies that’s why I hate the French’
Despite the evidence presented by the Pathé newsreel, showing him with Churchill that day, it would also appear to be true that, yes, at some point during that day, he did walk alone, ahead of the victory parade.
If this led to TLE’s hatred of CDG then fine, though as Scara, with whom I concur on this, has often remarked, ‘hatred is a very strong emotion’, and whatever CDG was, he was never an enemy to hate.
But to hate a whole nation ... and to hate them in totality ... 77 years after the event ....
TLE’s confused view of history, that his grandfather, ‘amongst many others died on the Normandy beaches for these tossers’, that the French ‘never had a navy’ or that, by removing a statue of Churchill from Parliament Square, Churchill would, somehow be removed from our history only serve to obscure the ‘facts’ that he did get right and he argues that people who responded to his incorrect assertion that CDG ignored the allies at the Victory Parade by presenting evidence to the contrary, should do more research
As an aside, Archibald Knox described the intriguingly named CCF Skiver’s comments about CDG’s attempts to get the French military to invest in the mechanisation of armed forces as ‘Simply not true ... very wide of the mark ... a complete inversion of the history’
From what I’ve read in the last hour, CCF nailed it and it would appear that Rommel and co. took more heed of CDG’s scribblings than did the French political and military leaders. Still you pays your money and takes your choice where history is concerned
I would recommend two articles
1) How De Gaulle rescued France - from the New Yorker magazine
How Charles de Gaulle Rescued France
His life shows that right-wing politics needn’t bend toward absolutism.
and
2) The audacity of De Gaulle - from the Hoover Institute
The Audacity of de Gaulle
Henrik Bering on The General: Charles de Gaulle and the France He Saved by Jonathan Fenby
(Other publications are available)
To sum up I would suggest that, whatever provoked TLE to make his opening statement, he needs to do some letting go of his own. He may disagree
Conjured up out of nothing? Surely you're aware that since 1 January Macron and his cohort have been escalating their plans to undermine the UK's economy in almost every way available.
We are now a rival, they can do what they want, boils down to the Brexiteers won, deal with it!
Deal with it? What would you like me to do? Stop eating snails and amphibians
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Not necessarily. But accepting the reality of the situation you’ve created would be a good start.Deal with it? What would you like me to do? Stop eating snails and amphibians
Now, along with the USA, Russia and China, we have another huge economic and political rival to contend with...... on our doorstep. And without the U.K. as a counterbalance you’ve effectively handed control of that entity to our old enemies France and Germany. At the same time as putting trade barriers up between the U.K. and its largest market, thus weakening our economic position.
Well done chaps. Shrewd move
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
It amazes me how many Brexit supporters just don’t grasp that fundamental fact.
Once we left the EU all the remaining members became rivals. And yet some people still expect favours from them, and then have temper tantrums when we don’t get them.
Astonishing.
Archibald Knox
Well-known member
The EU will willingly increase economic strife. The French have never needed an incentive to do so. Whatever we lose, they win. There is no win-win scenario anymore.
Maybe the centime will drop now, for some, at least.
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
No offence Cat and I'm sure you are good company but I'd rather have a pint and a chat with Terry Collier than your goodself everyday of the week and three times on a Sunday.
Wizaard
Well-known member
kuriousoranj
Well-known member
Had three French girlfriends, spent time holidaying with all their families who were all genuinely great people. Intelligent, humorous and cultured.. what's not to like?
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
Why are so many posters on here so quick to dismiss the achievements of our country and appear to specialise in hating everything to do with Britain ?
If Britain were to compete against a side managed by Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, the first question many would ask is, "Where can I buy an Arabs United scarf" ?
Or perhaps an Iraqi/Saudi half and half scarf ?
If Britain were to compete against a side managed by Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, the first question many would ask is, "Where can I buy an Arabs United scarf" ?
Or perhaps an Iraqi/Saudi half and half scarf ?
Even the French don't like the French.
www.express.co.uk
Macron lashes out against his own French citizens in outburst
EMMANUEL MACRON was accused of "vilifying the French people" after the country's president lost it during a recent outburst, as he hit back at criticism of his presidency before calling France "a nation of 66 million prosecutors".
www.express.co.uk
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
Corner restores my faith in the board by referring favourably to our wartime leader.
Merci Beaucoup
20togo
Well-known member
You apparently.
Ooh It’s a Corner
Well-known member
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Why are so many posters on here so quick to make things up and invent stories?
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
Absolutely incredible
Top quality
I know they were cheap shots Corner and I wasn't being overly serious but it's amazing that so many know so much about the flaws in Britain's historic achievements.
SEASIDE2020
Well-known member
I wasn't being serious Mex and to be honest I think you knew that ?
It's alright Winnie saying that, he wasn't on the front line.
kuriousoranj
Well-known member
Depends on what makes you proud to be British. I certainly couldn't give a fig about the Royal Family. If it's the top to bottom class system which they bring - then I feel sorry for you. If it's the old empire and history you're clinging on too, again I feel sorry for you. It really doesn't make me feel proud one bit.
One thing which makes Britain special is our ability to export music, art and popular culture and it's mostly happened during my life time.
No country on earth has had a greater share of exporting rock and pop music throughout the world. That makes me proud. The Beatles, Stones, David Bowie etc and it's continued for many decades. There's something very special about British youth culture, mostly reacting against the above.
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