The loan market and our squad

tangysider

Well-known member
Not a fan to be honest as they aren't our players and go back to their parent clubs

It's just moving the problem for another year

I know people will mention Forest and how they used good loans to get promoted but its cost them millions to replace those loans

I think maybe one or two are OK but we have 4 now with talk of another coming in next week

It doesn’t look like much forward planning to me

Btw I do like the look of Fiorini and the Arsenal kid, less sure on the nobber and the tall bloke from Wolves who couldn't trap a bag of cement against Reading

Anyway still need a right back ASAP and we still don't know if Bowler is going, for me keeping Bowler for another season is a better bit of business than any of the loans we have brought in

I'm starting to like the look of what Appleton is doing especially in midfield where he is trying to get more footballing players in the centre of the pitch instead of the Critchley defensive set up

Long way to go but hopefully a couple more in on permanent deals and we can kick on

Looking forward to Stoke on Saturday, will be interesting to see who starts
Although you are correct it moves the problem on for another year, the Sadler Philosophy is to create an academy that feeds our first team, and we will be one year nearer that coming into fruition.
We will get a reputation for improving young talent hopefully and attract this young talent to our own academy, where hopefully it will not be poached
 

voyeur

Well-known member
There is no doubt that previously we have been signing mid quality loans under Critchley

The Aresnal lad looks a cut above that
Sterling Simms Ballard.

The Arsenal lad is 18 and hasn't played a league game yet. For anybody. And hes a one off anyway. And you give Bullshit Ben no credit of course.

Its always a case of making out Critchley wasnt much good with you. Still trying to prove your were right. Playground mentality.
 

Lytham_fy8

Well-known member
There is no doubt that previously we have been signing mid quality loans under Critchley

The Aresnal lad looks a cut above that
League One were effective and we'd have happily signed Embleton and Simms, last year we lost our way with them, presumably teams thought we'd be in a relegation scrap so weren't keen.
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
Sterling Simms Ballard.

The Arsenal lad is 18 and hasn't played a league game yet. For anybody. And hes a one off anyway. And you give Bullshit Ben no credit of course.

Its always a case of making out Critchley wasnt much good with you. Still trying to prove your were right. Playground mentality.
Dan Kemp, Woodburn, Kirk and Dale
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
Although you are correct it moves the problem on for another year, the Sadler Philosophy is to create an academy that feeds our first team, and we will be one year nearer that coming into fruition.
We will get a reputation for improving young talent hopefully and attract this young talent to our own academy, where hopefully it will not be poached
Our Academy is nowhere near that level and won't be in 12 months either
 

20togo

Well-known member
Think Williams is likely to be a regular although Keogh will be unlucky to lose his place who for me had a great season. Fiorini and Patino clearly have a great deal of quality and they are here to get game time at a decent level. That makes me worry for Carey and how much involvement he'll have. Corrbeanu, really don't know how good he is and how we can fit him into a system to get the best out of our other forwards.
 

Going Up the Pool

Well-known member
Sterling Simms Ballard.

The Arsenal lad is 18 and hasn't played a league game yet. For anybody. And hes a one off anyway. And you give Bullshit Ben no credit of course.

Its always a case of making out Critchley wasnt much good with you. Still trying to prove your were right. Playground mentality.

3 great loan players. If the new lad is anywhere near as good ....
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
Yes but it was club strategy. He also left us a division higher in mid table and brought in a couple of million from Villa allegedly to enable Appleton to spend more.

You're so negative.
I'm not negative at all

I didn't want Critchley in the first place and he just used the club

Tactics were dull and he made several questionable signings, it was only the willingness of the board to support him that got us moving up the league one table

Appleton is a far better person to take the club further and I think he will do
 

LA-KINGS

Well-known member
With the 5 subs rule it is going to be 16 players playing now. Going to be injuries. 5 players from about 30 is not a lot. Definitely allows us to get players we couldn't afford.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
I'm not negative at all

I didn't want Critchley in the first place and he just used the club

Tactics were dull and he made several questionable signings, it was only the willingness of the board to support him that got us moving up the league one table

Appleton is a far better person to take the club further and I think he will do
You didn't want him and you refuse to accept he did a good job. Its plain and obvious that he did. I'm hopeful Appleton will continue the good work. Build on the solid foundations set by Critchley. The squad is evolving and improving so no excuses.
 

TimperleyTangerine

Well-known member
Right then left us in the lurch with a load of players on long contracts
And you’ve effectively answered your own points. As I posted earlier, we’ve got contracted players who won’t feature and won’t get picked up by other clubs. Loans give MA flexibility this season, until we can free up space on the permanent wage bill.
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
You didn't want him and you refuse to accept he did a good job. Its plain and obvious that he did. I'm hopeful Appleton will continue the good work. Build on the solid foundations set by Critchley. The squad is evolving and improving so no excuses.
He did an ok job
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
And you’ve effectively answered your own points. As I posted earlier, we’ve got contracted players who won’t feature and won’t get picked up by other clubs. Loans give MA flexibility this season, until we can free up space on the permanent wage bill.
We don't need to free up space, surely if it was about that we would be signing players on permanent deals who are under 21 as they don't count to squad size
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
Comparing to forests loans last season how do ages of the players compare to ours this season?

Max Lowe was 24, Djed Spence 21, but had played 60+ games in the Championship already, James Garner 20, but 40+ Championship games already, Zinckernagel 26, Davis 23, they also borrowed a 23 y/o RB from Arsenal, but he did his hamstring in his second game, missed the next four months, then managed to do his ankle in his fourth game and went back to his parent club.

My best guess is those loans cost Forest somewhere around £5,000,000 for the season, we're not in that market so ours are younger.
 

hertfordseasider

Well-known member
He did an ok job
He did a good job in his first season, a very good job, to get promoted was excellent and we could easily have gone up as champions if not for our poor start. We also got some good loans in, Simms, Ballard & Embleton were excellent and we would be delighted to have Simms and Ballard in our team now.

I think he did an okay job in the Championship, he did well in keeping us up comfortably but we signed terrible loan players but we signed some great players on permanents; Connolly, Gabriel, Keogh, Bowler for example. However he went very defensive and the 4 at the back with 2 defensive midfielders in front was shit to watch generally and he just kept changing the team around every game. We went sideway and back and by the end of the season we had been sussed out and we looked like relegation candidates. So on that basis, he did well but found his level and I am glad he has gone.

We have no idea if Appleton is going to be better, but it will be different. It will be more attacking and he likes to play a settled side. We have a lot of young players so I hope the next couple of signings bring some experience to the squad a la Madine & Keogh. Fiorini has already played a season in league 1 so he will be fine as will Williams, I'm not sure about Patino yet, he comes to us with all the plaudits but he is going to get targeted by the opposition so it will be interesting to see how he copes. If he deals with it and he is as good as they say then he will play. I feel sorry for Carey as his place is the one most at risk and I would like to see him develop on the pitch not on the bench.
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
Where is your Appleton bar set?
Push for the play offs if the board pull their fingers out

Another wide forward and a back up right back

but we have to keep Bowler, that's the most important thing for me

If Bowler goes it could be a struggle, he's that important
 

voyeur

Well-known member
He did a good job in his first season, a very good job, to get promoted was excellent and we could easily have gone up as champions if not for our poor start. We also got some good loans in, Simms, Ballard & Embleton were excellent and we would be delighted to have Simms and Ballard in our team now.

I think he did an okay job in the Championship, he did well in keeping us up comfortably but we signed terrible loan players but we signed some great players on permanents; Connolly, Gabriel, Keogh, Bowler for example. However he went very defensive and the 4 at the back with 2 defensive midfielders in front was shit to watch generally and he just kept changing the team around every game. We went sideway and back and by the end of the season we had been sussed out and we looked like relegation candidates. So on that basis, he did well but found his level and I am glad he has gone.

We have no idea if Appleton is going to be better, but it will be different. It will be more attacking and he likes to play a settled side. We have a lot of young players so I hope the next couple of signings bring some experience to the squad a la Madine & Keogh. Fiorini has already played a season in league 1 so he will be fine as will Williams, I'm not sure about Patino yet, he comes to us with all the plaudits but he is going to get targeted by the opposition so it will be interesting to see how he copes. If he deals with it and he is as good as they say then he will play. I feel sorry for Carey as his place is the one most at risk and I would like to see him develop on the pitch not on the bench.
We finished comfortably higher than our budget suggested we should, last season.

Ok job my arse. 😆
 

WIZARD OF TANGERINE

Well-known member
As long as we don't have a full team of loans ,loans are the most sensible way of getting above average players with no transfer cost and possibly even help with wages . If you get the chance of a talented player for nothing ,you have to take it . While you have that player ,you can look for a perminant replacement while you have that position covered . People have to remember that we aren't the biggest or richest club in the hunt for these diamonds in the rough though and finding perminant players with the talent are difficult to get.
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
As long as we don't have a full team of loans ,loans are the most sensible way of getting above average players with no transfer cost and possibly even help with wages . If you get the chance of a talented player for nothing ,you have to take it . While you have that player ,you can look for a perminant replacement while you have that position covered . People have to remember that we aren't the biggest or richest club in the hunt for these diamonds in the rough though and finding perminant players with the talent are difficult to get.
Loans aren't free
 

Fylde Seasider

Well-known member
I'm a big fan of loan players. Think back to the ones we've had in the past. I don't need to list them, we all know what contributions they have made to our successes over recent years.

Pluses:
  • If they aren't good enough you can send them back
  • If they get injured you can send them back
  • If they don't fit in or have an attitude you can send them back
  • You don't have to spend transfer fees bringing them in
  • If you lose players in crucial areas you can bring in a loan
  • You are sometimes getting a great player you could never afford
  • Mostly you aren't paying all of their wages
  • If they impress then you sometimes have a chance of signing them permanently
Minuses:
  • They move on??? So does (almost) every player if they get a better offer
  • Sometimes a club can recall them - unless you specify that they can't
An absolute no brainer for clubs such as ours.
 

TimperleyTangerine

Well-known member
We don't need to free up space, surely if it was about that we would be signing players on permanent deals who are under 21 as they don't count to squad size
It’s not easy to sign u21 players who are ready for Championship football.

The loans are less of a risk and for me are good quality players who can make a contribution. They have experienced some first team football at a higher level.

One look at the squad list tells me that we do need to free up space.
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
I'm a big fan of loan players. Think back to the ones we've had in the past. I don't need to list them, we all know what contributions they have made to our successes over recent years.

Pluses:
  • If they aren't good enough you can send them back
  • If they get injured you can send them back
  • If they don't fit in or have an attitude you can send them back
  • You don't have to spend transfer fees bringing them in
  • If you lose players in crucial areas you can bring in a loan
  • You are sometimes getting a great player you could never afford
  • Mostly you aren't paying all of their wages
  • If they impress then you sometimes have a chance of signing them permanently
Minuses:
  • They move on??? So does (almost) every player if they get a better offer
  • Sometimes a club can recall them - unless you specify that they can't
An absolute no brainer for clubs such as ours.
That's fair enough but you still have to pay them and there is a certain risk to paying high wages for an unproven player

I believe John Jules was being paid 6k a week whilst he was with us, he was useless

However my point is more about building a team around loans and then having to do the same thing year on year, there is no stability in this approach

Btw I excited about seeing Patino play he looks a proper player

I think top tier loans are OK as long as there aren't too many of them just don't want to get into a habit of getting one's who aren't any better than what we have
 

hertfordseasider

Well-known member
Excellent reversion to child like abuse!

And an absolute load of bollox.

We stood toe to toe with much more expensive teams last season.

Which players are in and out of favour with you at the moment? 😉
Give over! I want all the players to do well, but sadly that will never happen in any team. I just disliked Quitchley last season and mores as the season went on. I said he managed to get us to safety easily, but instead of kicking on we went backwards. It's all about opinions and mine are just as valid as yours, we can never always be right or wrong. We got some really good results last season but were you looking forward to watching the games? I can't say I was because I knew the style of play was too defensive for me. His time had come and I am thankful Villa have come in and poached him and we have a different style of manager we needed it. 'm not saying it will work but I'm really looking forward to the season ahead.

As for players, I try to be objective, I watch how they perform and judge them on that and it can change regularly. I couldn't stand Connolly at the start of last season, I just didn't rate him, but as he played more games I saw what he bought to the team and he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me now, his only disadvantage is his versatility as he has to have a position where there is a vacancy and he won't always have that, But I would have him as our defensive midfielder and experience behind 2 young creative midfielders, whereas you would probably prefer him and Dougall behind one. Also, if Stewart was fit I would have him in that position, it's a crying shame he is so delicate

I really like CJ and I think there's a really exciting player there, but it is heart over head I think as he will probably be much better off on loan at a league 1 club, but I'd still be gutted if he went.

I am also worried for Carey's development because as you know, I really rate him, but he also needs an experienced defensive midfielder behind him and with the arrival of Fiorini and Patino he is going to fight super hard for a place when a full run in the team would probably have really improved him.

I guess with the 5 subs it allows changes to be made earlier so players on the bench will get a lot more game time.

How are your thoughts on Gary Madine these days? oh and Jordan Gabriel? And what was it about Quitchley that makes you think it wasn't the right time for him to leave?
 

Philbfctrois

Well-known member
Give over! I want all the players to do well, but sadly that will never happen in any team. I just disliked Quitchley last season and mores as the season went on. I said he managed to get us to safety easily, but instead of kicking on we went backwards. It's all about opinions and mine are just as valid as yours, we can never always be right or wrong. We got some really good results last season but were you looking forward to watching the games? I can't say I was because I knew the style of play was too defensive for me. His time had come and I am thankful Villa have come in and poached him and we have a different style of manager we needed it. 'm not saying it will work but I'm really looking forward to the season ahead.

As for players, I try to be objective, I watch how they perform and judge them on that and it can change regularly. I couldn't stand Connolly at the start of last season, I just didn't rate him, but as he played more games I saw what he bought to the team and he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me now, his only disadvantage is his versatility as he has to have a position where there is a vacancy and he won't always have that, But I would have him as our defensive midfielder and experience behind 2 young creative midfielders, whereas you would probably prefer him and Dougall behind one. Also, if Stewart was fit I would have him in that position, it's a crying shame he is so delicate

I really like CJ and I think there's a really exciting player there, but it is heart over head I think as he will probably be much better off on loan at a league 1 club, but I'd still be gutted if he went.

I am also worried for Carey's development because as you know, I really rate him, but he also needs an experienced defensive midfielder behind him and with the arrival of Fiorini and Patino he is going to fight super hard for a place when a full run in the team would probably have really improved him.

I guess with the 5 subs it allows changes to be made earlier so players on the bench will get a lot more game time.

How are your thoughts on Gary Madine these days? oh and Jordan Gabriel? And what was it about Quitchley that makes you think it wasn't the right time for him to leave?
Banging your head against a brick shit house wall trying to debate anything with this Voyeur character
 

voyeur

Well-known member
What does money matter, you seriously need to get over the fact that some clubs have more than others
I accept that some clubs have more than others and i accept that money has a significant bearing on how teams perform on the pitch. You seem to be suggesting otherwise.
 
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