Tory Party down to two possibles….

Scaramanga said:
Assuming you think Labour a shoe in.
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I don't know, some Tory MPs were reported to have said that the Tories had just lost the 2024 election when Mordaunt was eliminated.
Starmer looking like the 'not mad' option at the moment but who knows how Truss will do. Personally, I agree with Sunak that borrowing to fund tax cuts is a fundamental mistake. There could be civil unrest in the autumn and winter as many will not be able to eat / heat their homes. But there is a good opportunity for Truss to prove her credentials with the Ukraine situation. We are slowly getting drawn in to that conflict and the situation will reach a head when gas supplies to western Europe are restricted in the winter. European economies dependent on Russia are already working out how to mitigate this with the least effect (shut downs of factories, power cuts etc.)
Two years is a long time and anything could happen. Political loyalties are not what they were, it will be interesting. However, from what I have seen of Truss it does not fill me with confidence about her abilities. And the ERG will try to control her, which is again a worrying prospect. However, there are bound to be plenty of Patridgesque moments from her - it's like the Chizzmeister has become PM!
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I don't know, some Tory MPs were reported to have said that the Tories had just lost the 2024 election when Mordaunt was eliminated.
Starmer looking like the 'not mad' option at the moment but who knows how Truss will do. Personally, I agree with Sunak that borrowing to fund tax cuts is a fundamental mistake. There could be civil unrest in the autumn and winter as many will not be able to eat / heat their homes. But there is a good opportunity for Truss to prove her credentials with the Ukraine situation. We are slowly getting drawn in to that conflict and the situation will reach a head when gas supplies to western Europe are restricted in the winter. European economies dependent on Russia are already working out how to mitigate this with the least effect (shut downs of factories, power cuts etc.)
Two years is a long time and anything could happen. Political loyalties are not what they were, it will be interesting. However, from what I have seen of Truss it does not fill me with confidence about her abilities. And the ERG will try to control her, which is again a worrying prospect. However, there are bound to be plenty of Patridgesque moments from her - it's like the Chizzmeister has become PM!
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I think they have definitely dropped a bollock with the final 2 candidates
 
Scaramanga said:
I think they have definitely dropped a bollock with the final 2 candidates
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Sunak looks like the only person who is serious about the challenges the country faces. And of course he has seen the books at close quarters.
Making vague un-costed pledges about tax cuts will please party members but is not really sound given the state of the economy. I felt that all of the other candidates just said rather vague things that they think the members wanted to hear.
Badenoch used the campaign to put herself into the public's consciousness for the future, we have probably not seen the last of her or Mordaunt. The right wing press did a hatchet job on Mordaunt, I'm not sure what they have against her, perhaps the powers that be feel that they can control Truss more easily.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Sunak looks like the only person who is serious about the challenges the country faces. And of course he has seen the books at close quarters.
Making vague un-costed pledges about tax cuts will please party members but is not really sound given the state of the economy. I felt that all of the other candidates just said rather vague things that they think the members wanted to hear.
Badenoch used the campaign to put herself into the public's consciousness for the future, we have probably not seen the last of her or Mordaunt. The right wing press did a hatchet job on Mordaunt, I'm not sure what they have against her, perhaps the powers that be feel that they can control Truss more easily.
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No surprise to see the media making all the decisions.
 
I’m not a fan of either. But as said, Sunak seems to have more of a grip on what needs doing with regards inflation and taxation, and isn’t afraid to put that out there, even though it’s not a vote winner.

Economists don’t seem to support Truss‘ idea of scrapping the recent hike in NI and corporation tax as a way of stoking the economy and instead could do a lot of damage going forward.

It appears Truss is going to get it though, I don’t think she is a solid enough MP for PM, despite her telling us plenty of times that she is. The lady doth protest too much.
 
Lala said:
I’m not a fan of either. But as said, Sunak seems to have more of a grip on what needs doing with regards inflation and taxation, and isn’t afraid to put that out there, even though it’s not a vote winner.

Economists don’t seem to support Truss‘ idea of scrapping the recent hike in NI and corporation tax as a way of stoking the economy and instead could do a lot of damage going forward.

It appears Truss is going to get it though, I don’t think she is a solid enough MP for PM, despite her telling us plenty of times that she is. The lady doth protest too much.
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But at last we will have a PM who will get to grips with the disgraceful cheese situation and open up new pork markets.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
The next couple of years are going to be both hilarious and depressing in equal measure;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549396990051639296
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Fuck me, talk about dredging the bottom, has there ever been such a consistent downward trend of of PMs from one to the next? Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson and now this ** idiot?

'We import two thirds of our cheese, that is a disgrace' would be hilarious if it wasn't coming from the next leader of the country.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Fuck me, talk about dredging the bottom, has there ever been such a consistent downward trend of of PMs from one to the next? Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson and now this ** idiot?

'We import two thirds of our cheese, that is a disgrace' would be hilarious if it wasn't coming from the next leader if the country.
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Anyone who'll run through bullets to save the good old British apple gets my vote!
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Sunak looks like the only person who is serious about the challenges the country faces. And of course he has seen the books at close quarters.
Making vague un-costed pledges about tax cuts will please party members but is not really sound given the state of the economy. I felt that all of the other candidates just said rather vague things that they think the members wanted to hear.
Badenoch used the campaign to put herself into the public's consciousness for the future, we have probably not seen the last of her or Mordaunt. The right wing press did a hatchet job on Mordaunt, I'm not sure what they have against her, perhaps the powers that be feel that they can control Truss more easily.
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Both the right-wing media and the Tory membership out in the Shires will be happy with Truss because she cuts her cloth according to what's popular with the right wing. She is a principle-free zone. During the Brexit referendum she ticked every Remainer box going, arguing forthrightly against leaving the EU. Now, of course, that is not the road to power for any self-regarding Tory. Hence, she is now a full-on Brexiteer. Liz Truss, the ultimate shapeshifter...“Tonight, Matthew, I will be whatever you want me to be.”
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
Both the right-wing media and the Tory membership out in the Shires will be happy with Truss because she cuts her cloth according to what's popular with the right wing. She is a principal-free zone. During the Brexit referendum she ticked every Remainer box going, arguing forthrightly against leaving the EU. Now, of course, that is not the road to power for any self-regarding Tory. Hence, she is now a full-on Brexiteer. Liz Truss, the ultimate shapeshifter...“Tonight, Matthew, I will be whatever you want me to be.”
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Just to add. Brought up in a Labour household, rebelled a little by Chairing her universities Lib Dem group, realised she'd never get anywhere with them if she was going to embark on a political career so moved to the Conservatives as a one nation Tory and now the wind has changed in the party, has moved to the populist wing. She's definitely her own person with rigid principles..on an hourly basis. Johnson mark 2.
 
Whichever one wins,
southshorepool said:
Just to add. Brought up in a Labour household, rebelled a little by Chairing her universities Lib Dem group, realised she'd never get anywhere with them if she was going to embark on a political career so moved to the Conservatives as a one nation Tory and now the wind has changed in the party, has moved to the populist wing. She's definitely her own person with rigid principles..on an hourly basis. Johnson mark 2.
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I guess there’s a view that there’s nothing wrong with listening to the public and changing your view to move with them. Going against the tide doesn’t ever work.
 
southshorepool said:
Just to add. Brought up in a Labour household, rebelled a little by Chairing her universities Lib Dem group, realised she'd never get anywhere with them if she was going to embark on a political career so moved to the Conservatives as a one nation Tory and now the wind has changed in the party, has moved to the populist wing. She's definitely her own person with rigid principles..on an hourly basis. Johnson mark 2.
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And told everyone that her school was in a red wall constituency, alluding to it being some inner city slum and failing it's pupils, despite it being under Tory control the entire time she was there and situated in the leafy and affluent Roundhay.
 
Matesrates said:
Whichever one wins,

I guess there’s a view that there’s nothing wrong with listening to the public and changing your view to move with them. Going against the tide doesn’t ever work.
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True enough. But then there's being sensitive to public concerns and there's shifting position for the sake of self-advancement.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
And told everyone that her school was in a red wall constituency, alluding to it being some inner city slum and failing it's pupils, despite it being under Tory control the entire time she was there and situated in the leafy and affluent Roundhay.
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And just to add further, the constituency MP at the time was Keith Joseph...the then education secretary.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
True enough. But then there's being sensitive to public concerns and there's shifting position for the sake of self-advancement.
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I'm amazed that the ERG Brexiteers trust her given what she was saying before the referendum. I suppose that she is now denying that reality (like so many Brexiteers) and peddling the fantasy sunlight uplands narrative.
She managed a whole 0.08% of GDP with the massive victory of the Australian trade deal (whereas we have lost ~4% of GDP through Brexit) and also managed to give Australian farmers an unfair advantage as they ignore much of the animal husbandry legislation that we have here. As said she will adopt almost any position to get where she wants to and that makes her very vulnerable to being manipulated.
So much for pork barrel politics, more like pork market politics.
Anyway there is bound to be a lot of laughs along the way, the rabbit in the headlights look, the inability to answer a question, the Thatcher tribute act, the 'I'm tough, I'm from Yorkshire' schtick. Plenty of reasons to be cheerful.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I'm amazed that the ERG Brexiteers trust her given what she was saying before the referendum. I suppose that she is now denying that reality (like so many Brexiteers) and peddling the fantasy sunlight uplands narrative.
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It's almost as if they're not very bright and just like to spaff off to promised tax cuts.
 
rockontommy said:
If your point is, he was only unscrambling an omelette of his own making, fair enough, but the big dog still came up against lots of opposition trying to open up, did he not?
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There were different points of view ,yes. There were many different ways of relaxing controls , as you could see in other countries nothing special about what he did. In my opinion his record over covid management was poor , starting in March 2020. Yes we did well enough with the vaccine but other European countries caught us up .
 
Matesrates said:
The other alternative I guess is for government to ignore the public and just do what it wants regardless
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If they are elected and given a mandate then that's how it works. Ideally, they wouldn't go to either extreme. She however blows with the wind with zero conviction. Alternatively, we could of course hold a referendum on everything. Shudders.
 
Always tangerine said:
There were different points of view ,yes. There were many different ways of relaxing controls , as you could see in other countries nothing special about what he did. In my opinion his record over covid management was poor , starting in March 2020. Yes we did well enough with the vaccine but other European countries caught us up .
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Other countries caught us up? Harsh criticism.
You are a tough man/woman to please.
 
Sunak if I had a vote as Twiss is going to borrow to cut taxes. If you are under 30 you will be paying for this madness for the rest of your working life. It’s a one off economic stunt.
 
Always tangerine said:
There were different points of view ,yes. There were many different ways of relaxing controls , as you could see in other countries nothing special about what he did. In my opinion his record over covid management was poor , starting in March 2020. Yes we did well enough with the vaccine but other European countries caught us up .
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If you look at excess mortality, we're slightly ahead of Belgium, slightly more ahead of Netherlands/Austria, a bit behind Spain, a long way behind Italy and the USA, and much of Eastern Europe is out of sight, for a country with our level of international connectedness that really isn't bad.

The real problem is that the UK reported Covid deaths accurately, and many others didn't.
 
Lost Seasider said:
If you look at excess mortality, we're slightly ahead of Belgium, slightly more ahead of Netherlands/Austria, a bit behind Spain, a long way behind Italy and the USA, and much of Eastern Europe is out of sight, for a country with our level of international connectedness that really isn't bad.

The real problem is that the UK reported Covid deaths accurately, and many others didn't.
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Lost, I don't judge covid deaths relative to other countries. I look at the number of deaths in our country and think, did it need to be so high?
 
In the inexorable race to the bottom, Miz-Trust has now PROMISED to send illegal immigrants to Jupiter, reintroduce thumb-screws, and eliminate benefits so the poor will have to go to Workhouses.

This has gone down really well with the "hang and flog em" brigade in the Home Counties, and she's opened up a 90% lead over Richy Rich Rich.
 
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I'm amazed that the ERG Brexiteers trust her given what she was saying before the referendum. I suppose that she is now denying that reality (like so many Brexiteers) and peddling the fantasy sunlight uplands narrative.
She managed a whole 0.08% of GDP with the massive victory of the Australian trade deal (whereas we have lost ~4% of GDP through Brexit) and also managed to give Australian farmers an unfair advantage as they ignore much of the animal husbandry legislation that we have here. As said she will adopt almost any position to get where she wants to and that makes her very vulnerable to being manipulated.
So much for pork barrel politics, more like pork market politics.
Anyway there is bound to be a lot of laughs along the way, the rabbit in the headlights look, the inability to answer a question, the Thatcher tribute act, the 'I'm tough, I'm from Yorkshire' schtick. Plenty of reasons to be cheerful.
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Interesting article I was reading the other day which basically said Brexiteers don't like Sunak, despite him voting Leave, because he tends to act logically and that worries them.
 
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