Training ground update

BISONS said:
I’d be staggered if his personal wealth is anywhere near £40m so to suggest he’s going to spend that sort of money brings questions.

We are kept fully in the dark so nobody knows a thing about what’s going on.
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You are correct - his personal wealth is not near £40m by a very long way 🤣😉
 
tangerine_neil said:
The size alone could be a problem: it will cost more for maintenance, basic running costs, with no income coming in from the paying public.

A few other bits don’t feel right, imo:

The pylons - esp. the one overhead the main 1st team pitch.
The design of the building styled to match the brown trees on the perimeter.
The public right of way through the middle of the site.
The main entrance onto Grange Park, not Garstang Rd and the fact they think zero security isn’t an issue.
The small car park.
The large area towards the East side of the site, where floodlights will not be allowed due to residents.
Ponds on site - safety concern.
No canteen or restaurant for the players, just a kitchen.
No consideration to future proof the design.
The lack of any attempt to engage with the local community. I know they will have the one near Bloomfield Rd, but two options are better than one.
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Tbf the pylons aren't over any pitch, probably abpit 50m away from the corner of the main pitch and maybe slightly closer to the edge of the bottom pitches.

The building looks OK to me, but not like I'm going to see it.

You probably only get people who live there going down that quiet cul-de-sac road.

The car park look nearly double the size of SG and that's including the whole path from the gate, which if you do that on the new on it will be more than double the size.

Not sure ponds are much of a safety concern, can easily be roped off or whatever.
 
BISONS said:
I’d be staggered if his personal wealth is anywhere near £40m so to suggest he’s going to spend that sort of money brings questions.

We are kept fully in the dark so nobody knows a thing about what’s going on.
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A few people have tried to guesstimate, based on the % of the fund he'd have and profits etc, but it is just a guess, but the low hundreds of millions I think was the guess.

Also someone posted this a couple of years ago...

"The UK company (which is a subsidiary) of the HK business made a profit of just under £24m in the last financial report (30th September 2021). On 30th March 2021 the UK company paid to the shareholder (guess who) a dividend of just over £14.5m. So a nice little earner from purely the UK business."
 
BISONS said:
I’d be staggered if his personal wealth is anywhere near £40m so to suggest he’s going to spend that sort of money brings questions.

We are kept fully in the dark so nobody knows a thing about what’s going on.
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Personal wealth is upwards of £200m - you clueless whopper
 
It’s all a pie in the sky red herring and won’t happen…time to start investing and recruiting properly in the next transfer window..if we fail next season then it will be Neil Critchleys last window so it is hugely important….think the east stand will come off eventually but for now it’s all about betterment of the playing squad
 
RambleFan said:
Still steaming ahead was the party line the other night
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I think you do Simon Saddler and his team a huge disservice by using an Oyston quote in a poor effort to discredit the club.
As we all know, town council planning departments are notorious for their slowness in dealing with absolutely anything and as this is probably bigger than anything that they usually deal with such as loft conversions and kitchen extensions I would suspect that you should be looking elsewhere instead of looking at the club as the scapegoat.

It's tedious.
 
Ginge 2 said:
I think you do Simon Saddler and his team a huge disservice by using an Oyston quote in a poor effort to discredit the club.
As we all know, town council planning departments are notorious for their slowness in dealing with absolutely anything and as this is probably bigger than anything that they usually deal with such as loft conversions and kitchen extensions I would suspect that you should be looking elsewhere instead of looking at the club as the scapegoat.

It's tedious.
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You've lost me with your rant about kitchens, I was quoting Julian Winter on Thursday night
 
Ginge 2 said:
I think you do Simon Saddler and his team a huge disservice by using an Oyston quote in a poor effort to discredit the club.
As we all know, town council planning departments are notorious for their slowness in dealing with absolutely anything and as this is probably bigger than anything that they usually deal with such as loft conversions and kitchen extensions I would suspect that you should be looking elsewhere instead of looking at the club as the scapegoat.

It's tedious.
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These big projects do take time and have to go through the process.
 
BISONS said:
I’ve no idea. But if you think he’s going to personally fund £40m on capital projects then you’re in cloud cuckoo land. There’s no way he can afford to do that.
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So, you don't know but you do know.......so you actually don't know.
 
JJpool said:
A few people have tried to guesstimate, based on the % of the fund he'd have and profits etc, but it is just a guess, but the low hundreds of millions I think was the guess.

Also someone posted this a couple of years ago...

"The UK company (which is a subsidiary) of the HK business made a profit of just under £24m in the last financial report (30th September 2021). On 30th March 2021 the UK company paid to the shareholder (guess who) a dividend of just over £14.5m. So a nice little earner from purely the UK business."
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TwelveAngryMen said:
Not tetchy at all
Just amused to see you try to compare a facility you’ve never seen with a facility no one’s seen
Bit like your analysis of Simon’s finances
Based on the square root of nowt
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I’ve seen how big it is and I’ve seen the plans not sure why you physically need to see something to have an opinion.

Regarding his personal wealth I don’t believe he’s as affluent as some would believe. It’s hardly an analysis as you say.
 
On the TG the fact that the site is larger doesn't mean it would all be developed
Pretty much all Poolfoot is
I'm not a Cod lover for saying that before you aim that one at me again - it's just a measurable yardstick that's up and running locally that has most if not all the facilities that the BFC training ground will have - and in addition a dome ( I haven't actually seen this as I haven't bee there for a fair old while ) which as things stand ours doesn't
On SS's finances I think you are seriously under-estimating but with you that's just a guess
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
On the TG the fact that the site is larger doesn't mean it would all be developed
Pretty much all Poolfoot is
I'm not a Cod lover for saying that before you aim that one at me again - it's just a measurable yardstick that's up and running locally that has most if not all the facilities that the BFC training ground will have - and in addition a dome ( I haven't actually seen this as I haven't bee there for a fair old while ) which as things stand ours doesn't
On SS's finances I think you are seriously under-estimating but with you that's just a guess
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Ours does have something very similar, look at the plans. Not sure if our dome will be bigger than their dome though.

From the relatively short time he’s been running his fund ( looks very successful so far) I’d guess less than £50m personal wealth.

What would your guess be?
 
BISONS said:
Ours does have something very similar, look at the plans. Not sure if our dome will be bigger than their dome though.

From the relatively short time he’s been running his fund ( looks very successful so far) I’d guess less than £50m personal wealth.

What would your guess be?
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Four times yours - minimum
You should look at Poolfoot - if nothing else to give you an idea of scale
AFC is a lot smaller but right next to the stadium and well built
 
No point in having a state of the art training ground when we’re in league one, I guess that’s one reason why it’s delayed. They assumed we’d be in the championship, given our performance the first season there, but Critchley blew that away when he walked out.

It’s not as if they’re going to make money out of it like Poolfoot, ours is purely for our own use.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Four times yours - minimum
You should look at Poolfoot - if nothing else to give you an idea of scale
AFC is a lot smaller but right next to the stadium and well built
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I’ve seen it. I’ve not been in it though.

Ok so let’s say he’s worth £200m - when he said he would personally finance the capital projects to the tune of £40m do you seriously believe he’s willing to use almost 25% of his entire wealth? Knowing he wouldn’t get it back?
 
Matesrates said:
No point in having a state of the art training ground when we’re in league one, I guess that’s one reason why it’s delayed. They assumed we’d be in the championship, given our performance the first season there, but Critchley blew that away when he walked out.

It’s not as if they’re going to make money out of it like Poolfoot, ours is purely for our own use.
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It’s not dependent on league position.
 
BISONS said:
The financial part is interesting because where exactly is the money coming from to finance both these projects?

I know he has said it would be personally funded. There is no way he can afford to do that so maybe he can’t borrow the sums involved??
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You do talk a lot of sh*te. In reality you know nothing about SS’s finances.
 
BISONS said:
I’ve seen how big it is and I’ve seen the plans not sure why you physically need to see something to have an opinion.

Regarding his personal wealth I don’t believe he’s as affluent as some would believe. It’s hardly an analysis as you say.
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Yeah the TG is quite a lot bigger than Fleetwoos, which is significantly larger than SG.

Also the club stated they exchanged contracts on 100 acres and to get that you basically have the large majority land between Blackpool and Poulton. It's huge.

The actual TG area is 'only' about 50 acres...

blackpool-fc-training-ground-site-e1652688915497.jpg


As for the wealth you only have to look at the dividend he got from the subsidiary that year and think about how long he's been at it, the parent company will likely make far more.

It's easy to see how he'll have acquired quite the wealth surely...
 
Matesrates said:
No point in having a state of the art training ground when we’re in league one, I guess that’s one reason why it’s delayed. They assumed we’d be in the championship, given our performance the first season there, but Critchley blew that away when he walked out.

It’s not as if they’re going to make money out of it like Poolfoot, ours is purely for our own use.
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From what I can tell Wyre have not approved it yet, can't put a spade in the ground without signoff. Nothing to do with league position or performances.

I guess the money part depends on if we believe we can develop and sell talent.
How much do we think poolfoot makes? I don't see it profiting too much from local grass roots teams, or charity events. Unless the cods spend every penny in the bar and restaurant...
 
JJpool said:
Yeah the TG is quite a lot bigger than Fleetwoos, which is significantly larger than SG.

Also the club stated they exchanged contracts on 100 acres and to get that you basically have the large majority land between Blackpool and Poulton. It's huge.

The actual TG area is 'only' about 50 acres...

blackpool-fc-training-ground-site-e1652688915497.jpg


As for the wealth you only have to look at the dividend he got from the subsidiary that year and think about how long he's been at it, the parent company will likely make far more.

It's easy to see how he'll have acquired quite the wealth surely...
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It’s exciting to see but people seem to think it’s negative to question it’s likelihood to come to fruition.

I want to see us with the best of everything and I’d hoped under SS to see a bit of that.
 
BISONS said:
I’ve seen it. I’ve not been in it though.

Ok so let’s say he’s worth £200m - when he said he would personally finance the capital projects to the tune of £40m do you seriously believe he’s willing to use almost 25% of his entire wealth? Knowing he wouldn’t get it back?
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I did say minimum
When the plans were first drawn up building costs weren't expected to be as high as they now are - I suspect that costs are at least 50% higher
Personally I think doing both the East and the TG isn't viable in the short term
The question is which would you prioritise or do you re-model the TG to make it revenue generating as it could be a commercially viable project if so
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
I did say minimum
When the plans were first drawn up building costs weren't expected to be as high as they now are - I suspect that costs are at least 50% higher
Personally I think doing both the East and the TG isn't viable in the short term
The question is which would you prioritise or do you re-model the TG to make it revenue generating as it could be a commercially viable project if so
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The TG should be priority as that is what propels the club into a different’league’
Arguably both are needed as quickly as possible and that’s the path that Simon will try I’m sure.

I’d like to start to see more transparency from him and his board. Lessons learned from the previous regime need to be put into practice.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
I did say minimum
When the plans were first drawn up building costs weren't expected to be as high as they now are - I suspect that costs are at least 50% higher
Personally I think doing both the East and the TG isn't viable in the short term
The question is which would you prioritise or do you re-model the TG to make it revenue generating as it could be a commercially viable project if so
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I'd probably look at what Bournemouth did and split it into 2 phases.
Get a couple of quality training pitches done, plus temporary buildings to start.
Refine the plans for second phases and build that when costs are down.

Do we think Poolfoot generates decent sums or was it more to appease locals who surround it? I genuinely don't know..
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
I'd agree Reducing the capacity seems incredibly short sighted - even in the short term with the demand you see from visiting fans
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Our resident 'ITK' poster then said it is 4600, but it seems it was said 3600 at the meeting as that's what people took away.

Maybe the meeting notes will clarify...
 
SMB_BFC said:
I'd probably look at what Bournemouth did and split it into 2 phases.
Get a couple of quality training pitches done, plus temporary buildings to start.
Refine the plans for second phases and build that when costs are down.

Do we think Poolfoot generates decent sums or was it more to appease locals who surround it? I genuinely don't know..
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That sounds sensible
My understanding on Poolfoot is that it generates a very heathy ROI
Think it cost £7m or thereabouts
I remember the CEO at AFC telling me that the return on capital for astro pitches was less than 2 years
 
BISONS said:
It’s exciting to see but people seem to think it’s negative to question it’s likelihood to come to fruition.

I want to see us with the best of everything and I’d hoped under SS to see a bit of that.
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SS recently said the east is now the priority, given the timeframe for the council spend, it has to be done relatively quickly.

They needed to find a way to do the TG cheaper, given the rising costs. Once approved, maybe they should build it in stages to spread the cost. It would still be better than SG and maybe that could then be sold once moved to fund a bit more.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
TBH I think the intrinsic value of a TG to BFC's league position is over-stated
It's primary value is attracting youth players that may eventually find their way into the first team and/or be sold for profit
That may work long term however by far and away the most important component is the quality of the manager and first team budget
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A legacy of Jack Walker was the building of the Brockhall Village Training Centre. I believe the Class 1 academy is based there along side the first team squad & under 23's. I was looking at their lineup on fotmob earlier on in the season & about 6 players in the match day squad had come through the academy. Thought that was SS long term plan for us but I can understand spiralling cost might mean he has to prioritise against stadium & recruitment budget.
 
No one has a clue about Sadler's personal wealth. Nor do I. But there are some signals out there which suggest Segantii has had an *extremely* good year.

Last week Segantii sold their very large position in ActivisionBlizzard[1], who have just completed their sale to Microsoft for $68b. Segantii bought this position in Q2 2023 at about $156m[2], and in the Q3 filings these were worth $1.2b[3]. A 10x increase, and an uplift of more than a billion dollars.

Now, Segantii isn't Sadler's personal cash machine, but you would expect his board will reward him very very handsomely here. He has more than a £50m fortune.

[1] https://fintel.io/so/us/atvi/segantii-capital-management
[2] https://whalewisdom.com/filer/segantii-capital-management-ltd (select 2023-06 on the dropdown)
[3] As above, select 2023-09.
 
However the TG will be funded is largely unimportant to us. What will happen is it will sit as debt in BFC's accounts- it won't be a gift (or have I missed something?). It's not too hard to see a time when that debt could be called in, therefore I'm firmly for the TG to produce income which hopefully would pay the debt off in time. There's also the cost of upkeep on the shiny new complex, which would have to come from somewhere if there was no income stream, perhaps playing side?
 
This comes back to it being revenue generating
There is an embarrassing dearth of community facilities in Blackpool
Build lettable astro / a gym and even a pool and it would make plenty
At the end of the day the players are generally only there 4/5 mornings a week at most
You could open it up from 2pm or even later
In the summer it could be the centre for all the football / hockey / netball tournaments that are based in Blackpool
SS could secure investment to fund it rather than self-finance
 
fcblackpool said:
However the TG will be funded is largely unimportant to us. What will happen is it will sit as debt in BFC's accounts- it won't be a gift (or have I missed something?). It's not too hard to see a time when that debt could be called in, therefore I'm firmly for the TG to produce income which hopefully would pay the debt off in time. There's also the cost of upkeep on the shiny new complex, which would have to come from somewhere if there was no income stream, perhaps playing side?
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How can you say that how the TG is funded is largely unimportant in one sentence and then suggest that it will sit as a debt on the Club accounts in the one that follows!!

Surely how the TG is funded is of primary importance to us?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
How can you say that how the TG is funded is largely unimportant in one sentence and then suggest that it will sit as a debt on the Club accounts in the one that follows!!

Surely how the TG is funded is of primary importance to us?
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I mean whether it's from SS bank account, loans, business mates, it doesn't really matter.
 
SMB_BFC said:
I'd probably look at what Bournemouth did and split it into 2 phases.
Get a couple of quality training pitches done, plus temporary buildings to start.
Refine the plans for second phases and build that when costs are down.

Do we think Poolfoot generates decent sums or was it more to appease locals who surround it? I genuinely don't know..
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Poolfoot is constantly busy, all day, every day. It must bring in quite a lot of cash. Also, the place is apparently buzzing. Ours will feel quite flat by comparison. A brown building, with hardly any BFC branding, and a few people rattling around on the odd days they are in. Players’ don’t even have a dedicated area to mingle, have their lunch etc.
There will be a decade of cash restrictions from SS while he pays it off. No attempt to engage with all the local community and turn those Man City supporters into BFC supporters. Makes no sense.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Poolfoot is constantly busy, all day, every day. It must bring in quite a lot of cash. Also, the place is apparently buzzing. Ours will feel quite flat by comparison. A brown building, with hardly any BFC branding, and a few people rattling around on the odd days they are in. Players’ don’t even have a dedicated area to mingle, have their lunch etc.
There will be a decade of cash restrictions from SS while he pays it off. No attempt to engage with all the local community and turn those Man City supporters into BFC supporters. Makes no sense.
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It's worth noting that Poolfoot is about to lose about 100 young local footballers across it's male and female teams as the Rossall School elite football programme has cancelled their partnership with Fleetwood and are about to affiliate with Manchester City.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Poolfoot is constantly busy, all day, every day. It must bring in quite a lot of cash. Also, the place is apparently buzzing. Ours will feel quite flat by comparison. A brown building, with hardly any BFC branding, and a few people rattling around on the odd days they are in. Players’ don’t even have a dedicated area to mingle, have their lunch etc.
There will be a decade of cash restrictions from SS while he pays it off. No attempt to engage with all the local community and turn those Man City supporters into BFC supporters. Makes no sense.
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......and then there's the day to day upkeep which will need some funding.
 
TommyHutch said:
As it always has been, plans for a new training ground are fantasy. Pure lip service.
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One thing is for sure, the public consultation meeting held at Bloomfield Rd was just a box ticking exercise. An information passing on session. ☑️
Not a single comment taken on board.
Much like the one I also attended for the disastrous new (cough) bypass.
 
Theoneandonly said:
If I take my money loan it to the club I own and the investment goes tits up the club can be closed down to repay the debt. Glazers got away with it because football at present is run in a fiscally irresponsible manner but it won’t always be that way.
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The Glazers have not used their own money. The Glazers borrowed the money to buy Man Utd and put the debt incurred (from buying the club) against the club. The club has to pay interest payments on the debt out of income. The Glazers have also extracted money from the club via dividends rather than allowing profit being re-invested in the club.

Simon Sadler bought the club with his own money. Since then he has loaned money to club interest free. Also the one season, since SS bought the club, when the club has made money SS donated the tax benefit, from off-setting previous losses, to the club.

You must have absolutely no idea about football finances to compare SS with the Glazers.
 
A detailed planning application was only made the middle of last year and there has been a subsequent update to take account of points or objections made in the consultation period. That was reported on in the Gazette before Christmas. It is now in the hands of the council to consider. We will know soon, one way or the other. Time for a bit more patience.
This is BFC's design and plans for a TG and, if it comes off, will show real ambition. There is no point in comparing us to Fleetwood or Fylde TGs as we should aspire to more ambition. And the basis of financing and running it is a matter for the owner/ club.
 
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