Training ground update

Phil_bfc deux said:
We shouldn't be building a stand for away fans the challenge for the club is to get more home fans in not planning for away numbers
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True, but would you accept us basically milking away fans to help fund a better squad until we have that support?

Personally think I would, if our support wasn't there yet.

We need to do more to increase the fanbase no doubt, but success will do that too and the more we have to spend the quicker success might come.

Then it's a debate about does the extra revenue make a difference, which it should vs any benefit to away sides with extra numbers.

Tbh I think we need to stop excusing the players somewhat, we had some great results with a full away end too.

But we do need to go on a proper fan building mission.

What about a ST holders bring a friend for free day, one that isn't a regular or maybe never been before? Surely there isn't much to lose there? Basically a new fan special deal.

If they weren't going to come anyway before, what harm in getting them in and possibly getting a % to return, also having them on the system and to be able to send marketing to them?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m not sure anyone is suggesting that we should be building it for away fans. However, if the Club have concerns about making a return until such time as we have adequately increased our home support, there would certainly be no difficulty in filling any available capacity with larger away followings, in the short term (assuming we get back in the Championship)…
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Exactly
Lost by some in the rush to point score 🤣
 
bfcpete said:
This plus the other documents you have posted seem to indicate that the planning issues that were raised are being progressed and resolved. We shall just have to look out for the agendas for the next couple of planning committees (they tend to be monthly) to see when the updated plans are to be considered
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How dare you have a somewhat positive outlook.
 
bfcpete said:
This plus the other documents you have posted seem to indicate that the planning issues that were raised are being progressed and resolved. We shall just have to look out for the agendas for the next couple of planning committees (they tend to be monthly) to see when the updated plans are to be considered
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The agreed decision date is on the horizon. That isn’t going to be met.

I’m assuming an extension will be granted
 
BISONS said:
The agreed decision date is on the horizon. That isn’t going to be met.

I’m assuming an extension will be granted
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Council planning committees work like that all the time, especially if issues that have been raised and they they have requested these are addressed.
 
Theoneandonly said:
Debt is owed to him so I’d rather he doesn’t add to that amount because the way he’s run the manager go round doesn’t fill me with confidence. The clubs debt to Sadler has risen fast and it’s starting to resemble imho a third division Glazer.
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The club owes Sadler money? Could you explain please? This is news to me.
 
Theoneandonly said:
If I make a loan to the club then the club has to repay the loan. If it can’t then assets could be sold. If the company has shareholders then they could be paid Pennie’s on the pound.
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How much has Sadler loaned the club please? And at what interest? Is this common knowledge?
 
Going back to the planning application running out this next week ……. can an extension be granted ?

Regarding SS and loans to the club, is this hearsay or is it common knowledge ?
 
BISONS said:
The clubs training ground should be private full stop.

If there is any ambition to be a Championship club then opening your TG to the public is a none starter.

It’s a non league type set up that does things like that.
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Not one professional club has a 100% private training ground. They all allow community groups and charities use at times. And you will never get planning permission to have one if any of the land you wish to develop is public open space.
 
Brett&Murphs. said:
How much has Sadler loaned the club please? And at what interest? Is this common knowledge?
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As previously posted (post #419).....

A STATEMENT FROM SIMON SADLER........

According to Owen wasn't the stadium worth £75m? Last time I heard Owen / his company were still suing the CAR for selling at an undervalue ! I think Sadler was sold a pup tbh… Half what he paid wouldn’t have been unjustified, given the state of the place
avftt.co.uk

The group accounts to 30 June 2022 state "...the company and group owed Mr SP Sadler, director of Blackpool Football Club Holdings Ltd, a total of £15,990,035 (2021: £16,001,665). This loan is interest free" (Note 24 on page 30).

It's highly credible that this would have risen to £18m in the 14 months between then and SS's statement earlier this week (September 2023)

(Accounts filed on 9 March 2023)

BLACKPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB HOLDINGS LTD filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

BLACKPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB HOLDINGS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

C. 4 weeks to wait until the 22/23 accounts are filed and the loan amount is updated.
 
Toastrack said:
As previously posted (post #419).....

A STATEMENT FROM SIMON SADLER........

According to Owen wasn't the stadium worth £75m? Last time I heard Owen / his company were still suing the CAR for selling at an undervalue ! I think Sadler was sold a pup tbh… Half what he paid wouldn’t have been unjustified, given the state of the place
avftt.co.uk

The group accounts to 30 June 2022 state "...the company and group owed Mr SP Sadler, director of Blackpool Football Club Holdings Ltd, a total of £15,990,035 (2021: £16,001,665). This loan is interest free" (Note 24 on page 30).

It's highly credible that this would have risen to £18m in the 14 months between then and SS's statement earlier this week (September 2023)

(Accounts filed on 9 March 2023)

BLACKPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB HOLDINGS LTD filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

BLACKPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB HOLDINGS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

C. 4 weeks to wait until the 22/23 accounts are filed and the loan amount is updated.
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Aren’t interest free loans the way that owners use to fund their clubs? In 10 yrs time the loan could be as high as £40-50m - He will never ever get that money back.
 
bfcpete said:
Council planning committees work like that all the time, especially if issues that have been raised and they they have requested these are addressed.
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It'll be interesting to see what happens with this, if all hurdles have now been jumped and it is approved, then what...as SS has publicly said that we need to find a way to do the TG cheaper given costs have risen massively.

Whether that means building in stages IDK. It's weird as if anything the plans seem to have scaled up from the initial released picture, but I can now find that 'newer' picture on an article dating back a long time ago, which is odd as I don't think anyone has seen it, unless I missed it... 🤔

The east may be the first big project to get going, which we hope is 4,600 seats and not 3,600...
 
JJpool said:
It'll be interesting to see what happens with this, if all hurdles have now been jumped and it is approved, then what...as SS has publicly said that we need to find a way to do the TG cheaper given costs have risen massively.

Whether that means building in stages IDK. It's weird as if anything the plans seem to have scaled up from the initial released picture, but I can now find that 'newer' picture on an article dating back a long time ago, which is odd as I don't think anyone has seen it, unless I missed it... 🤔

The east may be the first big project to get going, which we hope is 4,600 seats and not 3,600...
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Building in stages should be the way to go.
Land needs preparation and some of the landscaping/tree planting can be done.
I'd then look at a handful of pitches putting in and a temporary building (maybe similar to SG or reuse those)
Pictures of the plans have been out for at least a year, but a lot of relied on local media, which has gone a little.. downhill in recent times I reckon
 
SMB_BFC said:
Building in stages should be the way to go.
Land needs preparation and some of the landscaping/tree planting can be done.
I'd then look at a handful of pitches putting in and a temporary building (maybe similar to SG or reuse those)
Pictures of the plans have been out for at least a year, but a lot of relied on local media, which has gone a little.. downhill in recent times I reckon
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You can almost guarantee that what actually gets build and what the plans show won't be the same.
 
BISONS said:
Aren’t interest free loans the way that owners use to fund their clubs? In 10 yrs time the loan could be as high as £40-50m - He will never ever get that money back.
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This is the problem that's been around from Day 1 of this. We are basically a one man band and if that one man band goes boobies up that debt may need to be recalled. I think the terminology they use is 'interest free and repayable on demand' which could put the club out of business. Not very likely of course, but not beyond possible.

Which is why @SMB_BFC is right in saying it should be built in baby steps and why it should be an income source.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Poolfoot is constantly busy, all day, every day. It must bring in quite a lot of cash. Also, the place is apparently buzzing. Ours will feel quite flat by comparison. A brown building, with hardly any BFC branding, and a few people rattling around on the odd days they are in. Players’ don’t even have a dedicated area to mingle, have their lunch etc.
There will be a decade of cash restrictions from SS while he pays it off. No attempt to engage with all the local community and turn those Man City supporters into BFC supporters. Makes no sense.
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The Pleasure Beach is busy but loses money. Constantly buzzing doesn't equate to profit.

A professional outfit shouldn't be sharing the facility with local five a side teams.
 
fcblackpool said:
This is the problem that's been around from Day 1 of this. We are basically a one man band and if that one man band goes boobies up that debt may need to be recalled. I think the terminology they use is 'interest free and repayable on demand' which could put the club out of business. Not very likely of course, but not beyond possible.

Which is why @SMB_BFC is right in saying it should be built in baby steps and why it should be an income source.
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How do you recall a debt from a business that would be made bankrupt by its recollection?

And what is the point in putting a business you already own into bankruptcy in order to recall a debt to yourself.

If the Owner goes boobies up, then the club would be sold for whatever market value it could attract and any debt would be settled or partially settled from the proceeds of the sale.
 
SMB_BFC said:
Building in stages should be the way to go.
Land needs preparation and some of the landscaping/tree planting can be done.
I'd then look at a handful of pitches putting in and a temporary building (maybe similar to SG or reuse those)
Pictures of the plans have been out for at least a year, but a lot of relied on local media, which has gone a little.. downhill in recent times I reckon
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Yeah you'd think so.

If they can get the new TG up and running maybe they can then sell land at SG, could be worth a bit for housing. Put that towards it.

Yeah I don't recall seeing that pic on here though.
 
JJpool said:
Yeah you'd think so.

If they can get the new TG up and running maybe they can then sell land at SG, could be worth a bit for housing. Put that towards it.

Yeah I don't recall seeing that pic on here though.
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I guess the accurate pictures needed to be dug out from 100+ docs.
 
fcblackpool said:
This is the problem that's been around from Day 1 of this. We are basically a one man band and if that one man band goes boobies up that debt may need to be recalled. I think the terminology they use is 'interest free and repayable on demand' which could put the club out of business. Not very likely of course, but not beyond possible.

Which is why @SMB_BFC is right in saying it should be built in baby steps and why it should be an income source.
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If SS gets 'short squeezed' to Billy'o and he has to close his hedge fund (highly unlikely), there is no way he can get his money back. He can sell the club but it won't get his £50m back.

I'm sure he knows that the money he puts into the club will never see the light of day again, I'm sure he alluded to that a while back. So we're grateful whilst it lasts - nobody really knows what he sees as his exit strategy be it 10 or 20 years from now. One thing is for certain the club will be in a better place whenever he sails off on his tangerine yacht into the sunset!
 
Wizaard said:
The Pleasure Beach is busy but loses money. Constantly buzzing doesn't equate to profit.

A professional outfit shouldn't be sharing the facility with local five a side teams.
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I rarely, if ever, agree with you on anything. You're spot on here though.
 
Theoneandonly said:
Answered in post #221 which I noted you have liked.
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Cheers for that. Nothing to worry about really. Like others have said just a way to put his cash into the club.

As for the training ground we shouldn’t be using it like Poolfoot. I’d like to think we’d be more professional than that. If we have 5 a side/training pitches they’ll be at Bloomfield?
 
BISONS said:
I’ve no idea. But if you think he’s going to personally fund £40m on capital projects then you’re in cloud cuckoo land. There’s no way he can afford to do that.
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When he finally sells he will recover most if not all of it.
 
Wizaard said:
The Pleasure Beach is busy but loses money. Constantly buzzing doesn't equate to profit.

A professional outfit shouldn't be sharing the facility with local five a side teams.
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She’s a great example of how to ruin a business by turning away paying customers and passing trade.

That’s nice in principle, but we’re not Man City. Money doesn’t grow on a magical tree. This facility should pay for itself. I’m sure the majority of supporters wouldn’t want the playing side to be squeezed to bail out the TG expenses.
 
tangerine_neil said:
She’s a great example of how to ruin a business by turning away paying customers and passing trade.

That’s nice in principle, but we’re not Man City. Money doesn’t grow on a magical tree. This facility should pay for itself. I’m sure the majority of supporters wouldn’t want the playing side to be squeezed to bail out the TG expenses.
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The training facility should pay for itself by providing top class facilities to improve the squad, bringing in better sell on fees, and by improving the youth set up to make first team players of them and also additional sell ons.

A couple a year will bring in far more money than cups of tea and coffee from the public.

As far as I know, no top level team share their facility with kickabouts.
 
Other than Fleetwood who’s training ground is basically a family leisure facility that a football club happens to train at - is there a single other professional club - of a scale similar to us - who operate a training ground in a similar way ? There’s none in the Prem or Champ as far as I can see. Also - given the new training ground is literally over the road from community access sports facilities - including a bar - there’s almost zero need for similar facilities again in and around the same area. The club are opening community facilities where they are needed - in Revoe and I believe they actually run and operate the ones that used to be Vida already too.
Peope are getting far too hung up on trying to replicate Poolfoot. We’re thinking bigger and more professional and that absolutely must be applauded
 
Wizaard said:
The training facility should pay for itself by providing top class facilities to improve the squad, bringing in better sell on fees, and by improving the youth set up to make first team players of them and also additional sell ons.

A couple a year will bring in far more money than cups of tea and coffee from the public.

As far as I know, no top level team share their facility with kickabouts.
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None of that is guaranteed and a relegation could give the model a real hit. In the meantime the complex will have to be maintained, you'd think that wouldn't be cheap. Even with selling players on you're getting into a grey area similar to Protoplan where football income gets split.

There's a strong argument for making the TG pay for itself.
 
fcblackpool said:
None of that is guaranteed and a relegation could give the model a real hit. In the meantime the complex will have to be maintained, you'd think that wouldn't be cheap. Even with selling players on you're getting into a grey area similar to Protoplan where football income gets split.

There's a strong argument for making the TG pay for itself.
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There's also quite a few arguments against doing so... And I'd imagine the planning consent might be complicated or even frustrated if the site were looking to grant public access.

If finances are as tight as seems to be being suggested though, I would tend to agree that it would make sense for the TG to be revenue generating if at all possible. It's a massive expenditure and whilst I do think there are obvious advantages to the Football Club, I'm not actually convinced that they justify the level of expenditure that is being discussed.
 
I completely agree that the TG should have allow some community use, maybe not on the scale of Poolfoot.
I know there was mention of having it open to fans for Youth/Dev games, which could generate some small "match day" income on a Sat/Sun.

There also seems to be many mentions in the plans about Youth/parents and separation of adults and youth. Is there rules that need to be followed about academies etc.... and open access?
 
Wizaard said:
The training facility should pay for itself by providing top class facilities to improve the squad, bringing in better sell on fees, and by improving the youth set up to make first team players of them and also additional sell ons.

A couple a year will bring in far more money than cups of tea and coffee from the public.

As far as I know, no top level team share their facility with kickabouts.
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It's true and we do need a proper professional facility.

However, having seen poolfoot it does give that income that is highly helpful and also that community feel, with youngsters able to see the players etc. It's probably good for building that bond.

Even if we could have some 5 a side pitches at the start of our TG and all fenced off from the main player facility, that might be good. But the location not exactly in and amongst a big residential area, it's out the way and also its on greenbelt land so would they even get it passed for other uses...

Ideally we'd cover all that off at the revoe sports village, however I believe its just for schools etc and the women's team.

There would have been a good opportunity there to make money from the 5 a side football crowd etc.

The Fleetwood facility has some benefits like the restaurant etc, we might say we have the corner flag, but can't always park nearby and its not quite the same.

There's definitely opportunity to have something that made money, maybe at our Bloomfield community part, but are we pursuing it, doesn't seem so.
 
JJpool said:
It's true and we do need a proper professional facility.

However, having seen poolfoot it does give that income that is highly helpful and also that community feel, with youngsters able to see the players etc. It's probably good for building that bond.

Even if we could have some 5 a side pitches at the start of our TG and all fenced off from the main player facility, that might be good. But the location not exactly in and amongst a big residential area, it's out the way and also its on greenbelt land so would they even get it passed for other uses...

Ideally we'd cover all that off at the revoe sports village, however I believe its just for schools etc and the women's team.

There would have been a good opportunity there to make money from the 5 a side football crowd etc.

The Fleetwood facility has some benefits like the restaurant etc, we might say we have the corner flag, but can't always park nearby and its not quite the same.

There's definitely opportunity to have something that made money, maybe at our Bloomfield community part, but are we pursuing it, doesn't seem so.
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My thoughts for what they are worth is that there should be an indoor Training facility built on the land adjacent to the proposed new East Stand. This is not just Back Henry Street but all the land framed by Central Drive to the East. This would be a shared use facility both for the community and Football Club slap bang in the middle of Blackpool. The current scheme with one full size artificial pitch and a couple of five-a-side pitches just seems like a token gesture to me. An indoor multi-sport facility used all year round would be great for the town, create new jobs and revenue.
 
Seainsea said:
My thoughts for what they are worth is that there should be an indoor Training facility built on the land adjacent to the proposed new East Stand. This is not just Back Henry Street but all the land framed by Central Drive to the East. This would be a shared use facility both for the community and Football Club slap bang in the middle of Blackpool. The current scheme with one full size artificial pitch and a couple of five-a-side pitches just seems like a token gesture to me. An indoor multi-sport facility used all year round would be great for the town, create new jobs and revenue.
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Which is fine, but the central funding grant is for 'leveling up' communities, hence why its primarily for schools and clubs. Women's team is affiliated by not tied to the club, so get away with it.

If you put an indoor shared purpose pitch, chances are it might not have got the central gov funding.
 
The argument against public access is exactly that. Planning for road access, café, toilets and car parks etc will add another layer of complication that could delay it even more than the private, minimal disruption that are currently envisaged.
 
JJpool said:
So whilst searching based on @tangerine_neil comments above, I decided to have a look at the planning on Blackpool Council website, yes it's on both Blackpool and Wyre.

So I found there was a recent upload, well 11th Jan 2024, so pretty recent.

Here is the link and the document is can be viewed.

23/0429 | Creation of new training ground and academy facilities for Blackpool Football Club, consisting of the erection of a two-storey training facility building, indoor pitch, single storey groundstaff facility building, single st

idoxpa.blackpool.gov.uk idoxpa.blackpool.gov.uk

If it doesn't go straight there the planning reference is 23/0429.

Interesting that there still a lot of work going on and things being added for, according to some, a project that isn't going to happen...

Also, new to me anyway, new site layout and an extra pitch....

View attachment 18339
View attachment 18340

Here was the old picture that was circulated...

blackpool-fc-training-ground-site-e1652688915497.jpg


Weirdly those 'newer' pics seem to date back to quite a while ago but I don't recall seeing them...

Plus saw this...

View attachment 18341

Go and have a look.
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Forgive my ignorance, but why, if the facilities won’t be open to the public do we need so many pitches?
 
Seainsea said:
My thoughts for what they are worth is that there should be an indoor Training facility built on the land adjacent to the proposed new East Stand. This is not just Back Henry Street but all the land framed by Central Drive to the East. This would be a shared use facility both for the community and Football Club slap bang in the middle of Blackpool. The current scheme with one full size artificial pitch and a couple of five-a-side pitches just seems like a token gesture to me. An indoor multi-sport facility used all year round would be great for the town, create new jobs and revenue.
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The original outline plans for the latter phase of the Revoe development does suggest an indoor sports / conference facility on the land through to Central Drive, but purely for public / community use. That would be years away, because it would require much more funding to buy far more properties, clear the site and build a substantive structure. It would also be insufficient for the clubs first and academy teams needs. The pitches in the first phases are purely for public and community needs as well, not for club training.
 
Sandgrown1 said:
When he finally sells he will recover most if not all of it.
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Not in division three he won’t. Championship is the priority. That is the time to build infrastructure. Anything built now would be a compromise because there is neither the cash or need to justify doing the job right now. You’d end up with a fragmented build over years.
 
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