Tyrone Mings

I quite like the latest squad. Bowen is better than Emile Smith Rowe. We're a bit light in central midfield but it's been like that for years since we saw Scholes, Carrick, Lampard and Gerrard etc retire.

Any side with Harry Kane in has a chance.
 
Useless??
I thought you as a genuine pub team manager would appreciate a player that went from all be it a hell of a lot higher than your level, but still non league to play well over a hundred prem games and represent his country!!
ah well i suppose threre lies the problem, you never were any more than pub league RB🤣🤣
 
All I'm saying is we've progressed further in tournaments with this midfield than we did with the players you mentioned.
Yeah and my point was that we didn't have strength in depth like we used to. Personally it was the wrong managers than the players. Mason Mount is listed in there.
 
All I'm saying is we've progressed further in tournaments with this midfield than we did with the players you mentioned.
When we had Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes and Beckham the problem England had was the manager.
Eriksen was a one dimensional 4 4 2 man. Scholes has given an interview where he said every decent team they played had some sort of central 3 in midfield whereas England always had 2, put them at an immediate disadvantage.
 
Never mind Mings, Southgate has finally sussed that Henderson is not up to it either. Not including an England Captain speaks volumes.
He's stated the reason he hasn't included him is because of the extra games he's had to play this season and to give a bit of a trial opportunity to other less tried players, e.g. JWP. Henderson will be straight back in for the world cup, and rightfully so in my opinion.
 
He's stated the reason he hasn't included him is because of the extra games he's had to play this season and to give a bit of a trial opportunity to other less tried players, e.g. JWP. Henderson will be straight back in for the world cup, and rightfully so in my opinion.
Fair enough if that was true, but it isn't. Henderson has had many games where he hasn't started, and if he's come on usually around the 65 min mark.
I agree, he will be part of the WC squad, but mainly for his 'leadership' qualities. He will be torn a new one by some of these top players if picked by Southgate.He's not influential enough with his skillset and his workrate and speed has noticeably slowed.
 
You cannot underestimate how good a player Henderson is when you see his contributions for Liverpool. Does the simply things well and the intelligence he shows at times is beyond most players.
 
Maguire is a decent player imo and so is Mings. Mings isn't a stand out player at the top international level and so yep it's time for Southgate to look at yyounger players and Tomori has been getting rave reviews in Italy. Bowen has had a great season for WHU so on that basis deserves a call up. But I'm far from convinced he's anywhere near the level required for England to be at the top.
 
You cannot underestimate how good a player Henderson is when you see his contributions for Liverpool. Does the simply things well and the intelligence he shows at times is beyond most players.
'simply things well' accepted, that's his forte, but please.....intelligence? Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard et al showed 'intelligence' as midfielders. To say that Henderson is in the same league as them is an insult to the standard they set.
 
Maguire is a decent player imo and so is Mings. Mings isn't a stand out player at the top international level and so yep it's time for Southgate to look at yyounger players and Tomori has been getting rave reviews in Italy. Bowen has had a great season for WHU so on that basis deserves a call up. But I'm far from convinced he's anywhere near the level required for England to be at the top.
I could see Bowen being a bit of a wild card impact sub at international level. He is full of energy and is a decent finisher.
As for Mings and Maguire they are both good players, you don't play for big clubs in the Premier League on a regular basis if you aren't but Maguire in particular hasn't been great this season.
We have a lot of good English centre backs but none of them are anywhere near to Van Dijk type levels, pick any two or three from Maguire, Mings, Tomori, Coady, Keane, White, Tarkowski, Stones, Kilman, Konsa, Mee probably others you could throw in. Depends what Southgate wants from them and the formation he picks. Personally I don't see Maguire as an automatic choice.
 
'simply things well' accepted, that's his forte, but please.....intelligence? Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard et al showed 'intelligence' as midfielders. To say that Henderson is in the same league as them is an insult to the standard they set.
Got further with England than any of those, twice.
 
Got further with England than any of those, twice.
Eriksen was a bit of a fraud really, he looked like some sort of Scandinavian professor of football but I can't once remember him saying anything insightful or interesting about the game. How did he get away with it and become a multi millionaire in the process!! And shagging fit at the time ulrika on the side!!!
Southgate would've done better with the same players but when his time is done with England I'm pretty sure a big club won't employ him. Not saying he doesn't deserve a chance but I don't think he'll get it.
As for Henderson if he was around in the same era as Scholes Gerrard and Lampard he wouldn't have played many times for England.
 
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Fair enough if that was true, but it isn't. Henderson has had many games where he hasn't started, and if he's come on usually around the 65 min mark.
I agree, he will be part of the WC squad, but mainly for his 'leadership' qualities. He will be torn a new one by some of these top players if picked by Southgate.He's not influential enough with his skillset and his workrate and speed has noticeably slowed.
Well he's started 42 games this season, come off the bench a further 14 times and still has a Champions League final to play. That's surely a lot of games by anybody's standards. Regardless, the point stands about Southgate wanting to give other players a chance. There's really no secret conspiracy here.
 
Eriksen was a bit of a fraud really, he looked like some sort of Scandinavian professor of football but I can't once remember him saying anything insightful or interesting about the game. How did he get away with it and become a multi millionaire in the process!! And shagging fit at the time ulrika on the side!!!
Southgate would've done better with the same players but when his time is done with England I'm pretty sure a big club won't employ him. Not saying he doesn't deserve a chance but I don't think he'll get it.
I agree about Southgate and club management, but the national team is a completely different job.

How many WC winning managers have been great club managers? It's not a long list and basically consists of just Ramsey, del Bosque and Lippi off the top of my head, the rest have almost all been through the national system, just like Southgate.
 
'simply things well' accepted, that's his forte, but please.....intelligence? Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard et al showed 'intelligence' as midfielders. To say that Henderson is in the same league as them is an insult to the standard they set.
And yet is highly valued by Klopp and has lifted the Champions League and Premier League trophies playing a pivotal role in an extremely effective system.

In 2019/20 he won England player of the year, Football Writer's player of the season, Liverpool fans Player of the season, and made the PFA team of the season.

Not bad for a duffer.
 
I agree about Southgate and club management, but the national team is a completely different job.

How many WC winning managers have been great club managers? It's not a long list and basically consists of just Ramsey, del Bosque and Lippi off the top of my head, the rest have almost all been through the national system, just like Southgate.
Agreed, it's a different thing, and Southgate is suited to international management. Sven on the other hand was distinctly average at both but possibly a top shagger!!!
 
How do you know that he's not a major contributer to the team?
He is, he's given Pickford and Pope plenty of kicking practice with his backpasses.

To be fair, he's integral to the Liverpool team and its success, and Klopp obviously values him for his contribution. Strange that no other side has openly ever been in for him if he was that 'good'. Brendan Rodgers told him he wasn't needed, so not everyone rates the mighty Hendo. Southgate, being Southgate probably picks him for his status at Liverpool, but realistically he's generally been poor for England, only excelling against lower tier sides and being generally anonymous against the top ones.
 
And yet is highly valued by Klopp and has lifted the Champions League and Premier League trophies playing a pivotal role in an extremely effective system.

In 2019/20 he won England player of the year, Football Writer's player of the season, Liverpool fans Player of the season, and made the PFA team of the season.

Not bad for a duffer.
I agree not bad for a duffer.
 
Agreed, it's a different thing, and Southgate is suited to international management. Sven on the other hand was distinctly average at both but possibly a top shagger!!!
He was hugely influenced by Hodgson!

But yeah, a ** terrible national manager, the 5-1 against Germany kept him in the job for years and we only qualified for that World Cup thanks to an inspired Beckham against Greece.

My abiding memory of him as a manager was the 2002 Brazil game, they were down to ten men for 30+ minutes and he couldn't influence anything, didn't even change the shape and our main attacking threat was Danny ** Mills on the 442 overlap.
 
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Agreed, it's a different thing, and Southgate is suited to international management. Sven on the other hand was distinctly average at both but possibly a top shagger!!!
I'm not sure he got enough credit for that aspect of his game. 🤠
 
I quite like the latest squad. Bowen is better than Emile Smith Rowe. We're a bit light in central midfield but it's been like that for years since we saw Scholes, Carrick, Lampard and Gerrard etc retire.

Any side with Harry Kane in has a chance.
Bowen would be worthy of selection if he didn't play for the p**s chuckers - I can't support one of their players 😃
 
He was hugely influenced by Hodgson!

But yeah, a ** terrible national manager, the 5-1 against Germany kept him in the job for years and we only qualified for that World Cup thanks to an inspired Beckham against Greece.

My abiding memory of him as a manager was the 2002 Brazil game, they were down to ten men for 30+ minutes and he couldn't influence anything, didn't even change the shape and our main attacking threat was Danny ** Mills on the 442 overlap.
The 1 5 against a really poor Germany, imagine somebody like Carsten Jancker playing for them now!!, definitely fuelled the myth that Eriksen was a football genius!!
 
The 1 5 against a really poor Germany, imagine somebody like Carsten Jancker playing for them now!!, definitely fuelled the myth that Eriksen was a football genius!!

3 successive quarter-finals, the first a narrow loss to the eventual champions, the next 2 both lost on penalties.

His successor couldn't even qualify for the Euros, the next one went out in the first knockout round, the one after that managed a penalty loss in the Euro QF's before going out in the group stage at the world cup and then losing to Iceland in the Euros.

Between Ramsey and Southgate, he's got the best record of any England manager for almost 50 years.
 
3 successive quarter-finals, the first a narrow loss to the eventual champions, the next 2 both lost on penalties.

His successor couldn't even qualify for the Euros, the next one went out in the first knockout round, the one after that managed a penalty loss in the Euro QF's before going out in the group stage at the world cup and then losing to Iceland in the Euros.

Between Ramsey and Southgate, he's got the best record of any England manager for almost 50 years.
England should always get out of the initial group at a world cup finals. With the players at his disposal should've done better. He definitely underachieved with the available players, if the team picked themselves and selected the tactics they would have got to the QFs.
That's probably what happened!!
 
Tomori is an interesting one. Saw on SSN that he’s getting rave reviews after a title winning season at AC Milan.
 
He’s only captained his team to every trophy going. But then again what would Klopp know? You Henderson haters obviously know better than him 😉
Rusty, in a sort of comparison, Mike Brearley captained England with reasonable success, he wasn't really the standard of other cricketers in the team, but was integral to their success.

Henderson is such a player in Klopp's side. His footballing ability is distinctly average though. ( Goals and assists in his Liverpool tenure are poor, even for the Hendo lovers spouting 'He's a holding midfielder')

His passing statistics are seriously embellished as he predominantly passes sidewards or backwards, and only tends to pass to colleagues who are close by and unmarked with rarely no territorial gain or tactical advantage. Klopp obviously encourages this tactic, but as I alluded to previously, Brendan Rodgers wanted shut.
 
I quite like the latest squad. Bowen is better than Emile Smith Rowe. We're a bit light in central midfield but it's been like that for years since we saw Scholes, Carrick, Lampard and Gerrard etc retire.

Any side with Harry Kane in has a chance.
Any side with Harry cane playing against a top international side has no chance as proven time and time again .He scores against poor sides but has no pace and gets found out .time after time against top sides This is fact but you can't help delusion and need to understand pace is the difference at the top level
 
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