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Very proud of The Government and NHS
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Seasider53
Well-known member
Yes well done the NHS and the government.
But my understanding is, this has nothing to do with Brexit. We could have taken exactly the same path if we were in Europe. We would not have been obliged to take part in the joint procurement of vaccines. We have our own independent pharmaceuticals approvals agency the MHRA
But my understanding is, this has nothing to do with Brexit. We could have taken exactly the same path if we were in Europe. We would not have been obliged to take part in the joint procurement of vaccines. We have our own independent pharmaceuticals approvals agency the MHRA
Wizaard
Well-known member
We were still in the EU when we put all our orders in across six different vaccines in development. That was the key moment that has got us off and running so quickly and not a consequence of Brexit.
No, you’re wrong.
The point and key moment was that we were able to put in our orders as a nation in our own right, as we weren’t in the EU’s joint procurement scheme, thanks to Brexit.
Add to this the EU’s well known childish behaviour over Northern Island and the attempts to slow the vaccine rollout.
Matesrates
Well-known member
So could all other Eu members, but they didn’t and if we were still in, we probably wouldn’t have either. Let’s give credit where credits due.
Wizaard
Well-known member
Where's the proof. We were in, and we did put in the orders, so that would suggest your theory is wrong.
Sounds to me like credit should be given for obtaining the vaccines, being out of the EU meant we were more inclined to do our own thing but we could have done our own thing as an EU member.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
Can I just add, well done to all the UK nations, now on track to get vaccination done in the predicted time scale, a great team effort 
TangerineBayern
Well-known member
And the Government are very confident that Groups 5-9 will be offered vaccines by end April 
Ruperthoop
Well-known member
So very proud of the NHS. They never let us down and are the envy of the world. So many competent and caring people who rise to any challenge and this pandemic is proving that.
Matesrates
Well-known member
No, we were in transition, but in any case, no other Eu country did and look where that’s got them. Credit where credit is due.
Wizaard
Well-known member
While we were in transition we were subject to their rules but still managed to sort it. I agree that credit is due, as I've said all along. It's nothing to do with Brexit though.
catinstalbans
Well-known member
Boris Johnson's negligence has killed thousands of people.
But let's forget this, forget the corruption,
Forget "taking it on the chin"
Forget the cowardice,
Forget the incompetence
Forget the lies he has told
All because he got one decision right and did not push delivering the vaccine out into the private sector.
The NHS is fantastic.
Boris Johnson needs to be accountable for the "social murder" of thousands of UK citizens. (Note to mods- this accusation is acceptable for the BMJ)
But let's forget this, forget the corruption,
Forget "taking it on the chin"
Forget the cowardice,
Forget the incompetence
Forget the lies he has told
All because he got one decision right and did not push delivering the vaccine out into the private sector.
The NHS is fantastic.
Boris Johnson needs to be accountable for the "social murder" of thousands of UK citizens. (Note to mods- this accusation is acceptable for the BMJ)
This has been discussed a number of times in the press and I'll try to find some authority for it, but the gist is that the European Commission hijacked the vaccine programme and required member states to let it lead the procurement. We would have been subject to this procurement programme in the same way France, Germany and the other states were. The problem was compounded by Macron pressuring the EC to buy the French vaccine (that subsequently failed) and was further affected by the EC entering into prolonged negotiations with AstraZenica to get better terms and we know how that ended. All of this was a mess and we could have been part of that.
The pain of Boris Johnson's vaccine procurement success is burning a hole in you cat. Just let it go.
The NHS is great but I've never investigated other countries health services or asked many people from foreign countries if they would rather have ours.
I guess if they really thought about it and did not think it was a path to an evil communist dictatorship then most Americans would be envious.
Sometimes we have to be careful if we glibly say that our institutions are the best, politicians do it all the time, as it may prevent them from being even better.
Our armed forces, police, judicial system, parliamentary system, even Wimbledon and the Premier League all pronounced the best, I'm not so sure.
Anyway in this instance the NHS is definitely a wonderful thing!
20togo
Well-known member
....but yet you say China have done nothing wrong. Still they continue to cover it up. Just like you tried to cover up your lies. You were exposed for what you are Cat.
Covid-19 pandemic: China 'refused to give data' to WHO team
A member of the team accuses China of withholding full data on the early days of the outbreak.
www.bbc.co.uk
Blackpool Are Back!
Well-known member
I remember being surprised that the NHS was only ranked 15th or 16th out of 35 countries in europe.
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
15 million people already vaccinated and still a day to go to the Governments target.
Yet for some strange reason you’ve still yet to mention anything at all about it.
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Which would make it average in the world of national health services, this is where we have to be careful in praising without knowing all the facts. Appreciate the good parts and improve the weaker areas that way we might end up with the worlds best health service.
The financial windfall from Brexit which was promised will obviously help, but we do need to hold our politicians to account and not blindly accept their jingoistic proclamations no matter how comforting and ego bolstering they may be.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
The debate always seems to be framed in terms of NHS v US system, ignoring the fact that there are 30 or so "first world" countries and thus 30 or so competing models, many of which seem to deliver better outcomes than either the UK or US systems.
The fact that no other advanced country has copied the NHS model ought to give some on the left pause for thought.
catinstalbans
Well-known member
Got one thing right is acknowledging it.15 million people already vaccinated and still a day to go to the Governments target.
Yet for some strange reason you’ve still yet to mention anything at all about it.
When have you mentioned the lies, corruption, negligence, cowardice and incompetence of this government over the last 12 months.
BigHandsOliverKahn
Well-known member
People have rose tinted glasses in Britain and think we are the best at everything. Football should provide an indicator that we aren't quite as good as we believe.
Another one that will surprise some people is with press freedom. We are down in position 35 for that yet people seem to believe we have very open reporting.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
Yes and no.
In this alternative timeline we need to think about where the government would be after a no vote for Brexit. Likely Mr Cameron would still be PM, with a very slim majority (if any) and relying upon the DUP for support, the election would've been due in May 2020 but likely delayed until 2021, in this scenario the government could well have been forced by parliament into the communal scheme or otherwise decided to play it safe and not pick a fight and join it anyway.
On the other side of the coin, with a no vote, the EMA would still be based in London and maybe with the UK holding the EC's feet to the fire the whole EU joint procurement wouldn't have been such a shambles in the first place.
So yes, we could have followed the same path inside the EU, but it doesn't mean that we would have.
catinstalbans
Well-known member
That is a very good point. Boris Johnson's conservatives have done more to attack a free press in this country than any in living memory.
This is where we need to be open minded and not jingoistic or dogmatic.
Look at what's out there and see if we can learn from other countries, ideas cant always be transplanted completely but I'm sure we could tweak things to bring about some improvements.
Poultongirl
Well-known member
I like this new poster
He will certainly give cat a run for his money 
He will certainly give cat a run for his money
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
Nobody thinks we’re best at everything that’s a ludicrous statement.
But we are the best at something’s and we ALL should support our country in the things we are doing right.
TANGERINETOWERPOWER
Well-known member
The NHS and Government have done a great job with the vaccine and should rightly be applauded BUT that doesnt excuse them for being so rank bad in many other areas throughout this pandemic. All the Govt backslapping and self congratulation is unedifying and is akin to a racing tipster giving eight losers in a row and then finally tipping a winner and proclaiming how great they are.
I think we need to be more careful about shouting out that we are the best in the world at anything.
It's a huge thing to claim about anything and when politicians say it I am very sceptical.
Prove it with facts and then shout about it. We should be proud of our achievements and world beating institutions but they need validation.
catinstalbans
Well-known member
And attack our government for the poverty, inequality it imposes on our poorest and most vulnerable.
And root out the corruption at the heart of the conservatives.
And campaign for a fair tax system.
Remember thousands of people died because of Conservative policies long before the pandemic hit this country.
And root out the corruption at the heart of the conservatives.
And campaign for a fair tax system.
Remember thousands of people died because of Conservative policies long before the pandemic hit this country.
Lytham_fy8
Well-known member
CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA MOTHER ** CHINA.....but yet you say China have done nothing wrong. Still they continue to cover it up. Just like you tried to cover up your lies. You were exposed for what you are Cat.
Covid-19 pandemic: China 'refused to give data' to WHO team
A member of the team accuses China of withholding full data on the early days of the outbreak.www.bbc.co.uk
Matesrates
Well-known member
But would we have done it if we weren’t out? I somehow doubt it.
Certitude: I’m very proud of the govt and NHS. We nailed the vaccine rollout
Wizaard: We were still in the EU when we put all our orders. That was the key moment that has got us off and running so quickly and not a consequence of Brexit.
Wizaard: It's nothing to do with Brexit though.
Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's negligence has killed thousands of people.
Catinstalbans: When have you mentioned the lies, corruption, negligence, cowardice and incompetence of this government over the last 12 months.
BHOK: People have rose tinted glasses in Britain and think we are the best at everything. Football should provide an indicator that we aren't quite as good as we believe.
Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's conservatives have done more to attack a free press in this country than any in living memory.
Catinstalbans: Remember thousands of people died because of Conservative policies long before the pandemic hit this country.
Every day is Groundhog Day on AVFTT
Someone has the nerve to say something positive and the pack of hyenas are on it in a flash
Wizaard: We were still in the EU when we put all our orders. That was the key moment that has got us off and running so quickly and not a consequence of Brexit.
Wizaard: It's nothing to do with Brexit though.
Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's negligence has killed thousands of people.
Catinstalbans: When have you mentioned the lies, corruption, negligence, cowardice and incompetence of this government over the last 12 months.
BHOK: People have rose tinted glasses in Britain and think we are the best at everything. Football should provide an indicator that we aren't quite as good as we believe.
Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's conservatives have done more to attack a free press in this country than any in living memory.
Catinstalbans: Remember thousands of people died because of Conservative policies long before the pandemic hit this country.
Every day is Groundhog Day on AVFTT
Someone has the nerve to say something positive and the pack of hyenas are on it in a flash
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Recidivist3
Well-known member
northstand
Well-known member
Careful O/P, you're not allowed to be too optimistic on here 
catinstalbans
Well-known member
The truth bears repeating!Certitude: I’m very proud of the govt and NHS. We nailed the vaccine rollout
Wizaard: We were still in the EU when we put all our orders. That was the key moment that has got us off and running so quickly and not a consequence of Brexit.
Wizaard: It's nothing to do with Brexit though.
Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's negligence has killed thousands of people.
Catinstalbans: When have you mentioned the lies, corruption, negligence, cowardice and incompetence of this government over the last 12 months.
BHOK: People have rose tinted glasses in Britain and think we are the best at everything. Football should provide an indicator that we aren't quite as good as we believe.
Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's conservatives have done more to attack a free press in this country than any in living memory.
Catinstalbans: Remember thousands of people died because of Conservative policies long before the pandemic hit this country.
Every day is Groundhog Day on AVFTT
Someone has the nerve to say something positive and the pack of hyenas are on it in a flash
Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
Wizaard
Well-known member
Nice editing there. I think you'll find I've consistently praised the vaccine programme.Certitude: I’m very proud of the govt and NHS. We nailed the vaccine rollout
Wizaard: We were still in the EU when we put all our orders. That was the key moment that has got us off and running so quickly and not a consequence of Brexit.
Wizaard: It's nothing to do with Brexit though.
Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's negligence has killed thousands of people.
Catinstalbans: When have you mentioned the lies, corruption, negligence, cowardice and incompetence of this government over the last 12 months.
BHOK: People have rose tinted glasses in Britain and think we are the best at everything. Football should provide an indicator that we aren't quite as good as we believe.
Catinstalbans: Boris Johnson's conservatives have done more to attack a free press in this country than any in living memory.
Catinstalbans: Remember thousands of people died because of Conservative policies long before the pandemic hit this country.
Every day is Groundhog Day on AVFTT
Someone has the nerve to say something positive and the pack of hyenas are on it in a flash
20togo
Well-known member
What's he edited?
Wizaard
Well-known member
He's quoted all the bits pointing out that Brexit is an irrelevance to the debate and ignored the praise for the vaccine programme.. Hate filled agenda, some might say.
You seem to revel in making an awful lot of slanderous posts, which won’t appeal to the middle ground electorate and those with a fair minded and balanced mind.
So, who is your intended audience?
Please also confirm and prove which Conservative policies have caused thousands of people to die - as that’s some claim!
I don't hate you Wiz. I look upon you as a kind of AVFTT friendly uncle. I don't mind that you don't like the UK and Brexit and the government and the PM and being happy.
Very true.
Boris Johnson is guilty of massive mismanagement over Covid. However, as others have said, credit where it's due on the vaccination programme.
What are the proven cases of “massive mismanagement” over Covid he’s been found guilty of?
There’s not even been an enquiry yet?
Humans do make mistakes, and I’m confident that Boris hasn’t intentionally made them to harm people.
Wizaard
Well-known member
120,000 dead. And no one said intentionally.
Right from the off though, he ignored advice and we've ended up with tens of thousands dead more than were inevitable.
catinstalbans
Well-known member
You won't accept reports from the UN, the World Bank, the US Department of the Treasury Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, as proof so the question has to be asked- just what proof would you accept?