War again

Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Silly?

That’s the problem even you must see that.

It’s time Hamas dropped the human shield and fought like men in the open and not hiding in buildings full of civilians or are you so blind to see that? Surely not?

There’s always the option of surrendering and ending this war is that being silly?

Oh and If you haven’t seen that report on captured Jewish women being raped/butchered and then murdered I recommend you watch it and then you just might understand what all this tough line retaliation is all about, yes its brutal but as I’ve said over and over again you simply have to look at who started these massacres? who started this war?
Click to expand...
Yes I can see that Hamas are hiding behind civilians. But can’t you see that the same argument can be used to say that the IDF are hiding behind their artillery and aircraft?

Militarily there is another option. It’s for a wave of infantry to move in and overwhelm Hamas fighters. Without bombardments from artillery and bombers which are what are causing all the civilian deaths. And fight “man to man” as you put it.

Obviously that would mean a much higher body count for the IDF and it’s a price they aren’t prepared to pay. They prefer instead to drop bunker busters into crowded civilian populations.

And yes I’m well aware of the disgusting Hamas atrocities on 7 October (and before and since actually). But hundreds of posts on you’ve not been able to explain why those murders justify the murder of innocent civilians. Beyond “war is shit and they started it”.
 
20togo said:
Absolutely disgusting post.

suggest you read Lost Seasiders link.. That's what Hamas did when they "came out fighting man t man in the streets". Except they weren't really fighting were rhey? They were shooting and killing all the men and then raping and torturing the women. I also find it odd these claims from the Hamas govt regarding the number of deaths. Was their claim that over 16,000 have been killed of which over 12,000 were women and children. That figure seems somewhat disproportionate! The number f men killed seems low in cmparison.Less than 25%. Where are all the men? Hiding in underground tunnels. Carrying out raids and still having a supply of rockets to fire into Israel whilst still using women and children as human shields.

Now can you see how silly you sound? Except the word "silly" is putting it mildly!
Click to expand...
See my reply to Jaffa. You’re the same.

No one has disputed that the Hamas atrocities were vile and certainly no one has attempted to condone them. The point that you’ve failed to answer is how those murders justify the murder of innocent civilians in their thousands.

The best you can come up with is “war is shit and they started it” which is feeble. You did come up with a weird and sickening argument that somehow death by bombing and artillery was somehow more humane that killing someone “face to face”, presumably in an attempt to argue that the deaths in Gaza somehow didn’t count. Thankfully you seem to have dropped that argument, at least for now.

So for the hundredth time. Explain to me how the murders on 7 October justify the deaths of innocent women and children? Israel does NOT have a blank cheque, so where would you draw the line? 16,000 deaths in (although I agree a lot of those will be terrorists; 5000 was a guesstimate I saw).
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Yes I can see that Hamas are hiding behind civilians. But can’t you see that the same argument can be used to say that the IDF are hiding behind their artillery and aircraft?

Militarily there is another option. It’s for a wave of infantry to move in and overwhelm Hamas fighters. Without bombardments from artillery and bombers which are what are causing all the civilian deaths. And fight “man to man” as you put it.

Obviously that would mean a much higher body count for the IDF and it’s a price they aren’t prepared to pay. They prefer instead to drop bunker busters into crowded civilian populations.

And yes I’m well aware of the disgusting Hamas atrocities on 7 October (and before and since actually). But hundreds of posts on you’ve not been able to explain why those murders justify the murder of innocent civilians. Beyond “war is shit and they started it”.
Click to expand...
Er nope sorry I can’t see it in the same light as you do.

Hamas knew what they were going to be up against and knew what would become of it after those atrocities they carried out.

No one likes to see civilian casualties in wars but I’m afraid it’s what happens and like I keep repeating myself it’s Hamas that are getting these civilians killed by hiding behind them so it’s time they either came out fighting or surrendered as that’s the only way peace will prevail.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Er nope sorry I can’t see it in the same light as you do.

Hamas knew what they were going to be up against and knew what would become of it after those atrocities they carried out.

No one likes to see civilian casualties in wars but I’m afraid it’s what happens and like I keep repeating myself it’s Hamas that are getting these civilians killed by hiding behind them so it’s time they either came out fighting or surrendered as that’s the only way peace will prevail.
Click to expand...
It is unrealistic to expect Hamas fighters to fight a war in a way that will doubtless see them exterminated. You cannot expect them to effectively commit suicide by fighting a traditional war. Of course they are going to fight in a way that is most advantageous to them.
To me it looks like neither side has any regard for the civilians caught up in the middle of this.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
See my reply to Jaffa. You’re the same.

No one has disputed that the Hamas atrocities were vile and certainly no one has attempted to condone them. The point that you’ve failed to answer is how those murders justify the murder of innocent civilians in their thousands.

The best you can come up with is “war is shit and they started it” which is feeble. You did come up with a weird and sickening argument that somehow death by bombing and artillery was somehow more humane that killing someone “face to face”, presumably in an attempt to argue that the deaths in Gaza somehow didn’t count. Thankfully you seem to have dropped that argument, at least for now.

So for the hundredth time. Explain to me how the murders on 7 October justify the deaths of innocent women and children? Israel does NOT have a blank cheque, so where would you draw the line? 16,000 deaths in (although I agree a lot of those will be terrorists; 5000 was a guesstimate I saw).
Click to expand...
suggest you read my posts from the start. I talked about the need for Israel to respond and i mentioned the term "heavy handed" and how that was to be judged. I've also previously stated that Israel will state innocent people are getting killed because Hamas are hiding behind these people. That is Israels attempts to justify it. Neither have I dropped any points whatsoever. You ask me how the murders on 7 October justify the deaths of innocent women and children. Seems you like the term "justify" except when it's thrown back at you. No=one can justify the sadness for many innocent people getting killed. But make no mistake about it and let this sink into your mind so you can process it properly. Hamas started this war, Hamas started these atrocities and now the so called people they claim to represent are suffering and being killed because of it. War is brutal and many people have lost their lives because of it. Hamas knew what the consequences were always likely to be and yet they are still continuing to put innocent civilians in harms way.

The way you talk, ir comes across as if this is is 100% down to Israel what is happening here when it most definitely is not.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It is unrealistic to expect Hamas fighters to fight a war in a way that will doubtless see them exterminated. You cannot expect them to effectively commit suicide by fighting a traditional war. Of course they are going to fight in a way that is most advantageous to them.
To me it looks like neither side has any regard for the civilians caught up in the middle of this.
Click to expand...
100% agree with your last paragraph and yes it is shocking to see.

But don’t you think Hamas should have thought about this before they opened Pandora’s box?

07/10/23 took 3 years in the planning I’ve read but how long did it take Hamas to consider the civilians after that day and what the consequences would be as for me they clearly didn’t give it one thought.
 
Last edited:
20togo said:
You ask me how the murders on 7 October justify the deaths of innocent women and children.
Click to expand...
That's pretty simple really, Hamas wants to reorganize and rearm and then go again, they are using their civilians as a tool to help them achieve that goal

7/10 demonstrated that no negotiated solution is possible, Israel's actions are therefore an attempt to prevent a repeat of 7/10, any civilian casualties are ultimately on Hamas's head.

Also, don't get fooled into believing Hamas's 16,000 civilian casualties figure, that's almost certainly a wild exaggeration, and the true figure likely includes a majority of legitimate targets.
 
20togo said:
what an immature response but no surprise with you. You seem to imply that Israel had no right to respond. Maybe Israel should have just gone to the Court of Human Rights and asked them if they could issue a slapped wrist warning saying please don't do it again.
Click to expand...
Israel has a right to defend itself. But its response has to be proportionate and in line with its obligations under international law. The same as any other nation.

Lots of people don’t think the response is proportionate or legal.

Israel’s ultimate goal is also far from clear apart from the “destruction of Hamas”. How will anyone know when that’s been achieved? What does it even look like? Is it every Hamas fighter? Every Hamas sympathiser? Or just the leadership? And how many Palestinian children have to be killed to achieve that objective? Whatever it might be.
 
20togo said:
what an immature response but no surprise with you. You seem to imply that Israel had no right to respond. Maybe Israel should have just gone to the Court of Human Rights and asked them if they could issue a slapped wrist warning saying please don't do it again.
Click to expand...
Lost Seasider said:
Are you saying that trying to prevent a repeat of 7/10 is "wrong".

Have you read my previous link BTW?
Click to expand...
Glad you picked up on the intended tone 20s. The argument of you and Jaffa seems to be "well they started it" so I was continuing the theme.

Terrorist acts are wrong, war crimes are wrong.

Let's not pretend Israel didn't have a choice with their response, a powerful military will have plenty of options. They made their choice and will be judged accordingly, possibly in a future war crimes tribunal, we'll have to wait and see. Whether you agree with the State of Israel's actions depends if you think collective punishment is appropriate action, personally I don't believe more innocent children should be killed because of the acts of terrorists.

I have read the article Lost, it was a tough read and stirred up all the emotions you'd expect. However, I disagree with you saying that it's what a Free Palestine looks like as I don't think you should associate all Palestinian people with the crimes of Hamas.
 
Until Islam goes through a similar reformation to Christianity, there will continue to be entities like Hamas. Whatever Israel do, they won't destroy an ideology even if they level Gaza.

It feels like they're on a rat hunt in Gaza where they're happy to move into areas and level everywhere, regardless of civilian casualties. Carpet bombing in Vietnam didn't work, I'm not sure this will either ultimately.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Yes I can see that Hamas are hiding behind civilians. But can’t you see that the same argument can be used to say that the IDF are hiding behind their artillery and aircraft?
Click to expand...
The difference is hiding behind artillery and aircraft doesn't get your civilians killed, unlike hiding in the midst of your civilian populations as the hamas cowards do
 
Mexboroseasider said:
The point that you’ve failed to answer is how those murders justify the murder of innocent civilians in their thousands.
Click to expand...
They don't but responsibility for every single one of those civilian deaths like squarely at the feet of the Hamas cowards as they choose to hide amongst their civilians and use them as a human shield and also indiscriminately launch rockets against Israel and sometimes their own people from the midst of civilian populations in order to target israeli civilian targets where there is no Israeli military presence.
 
Incidentally both targeting civilians and using civilians as Human shields are war crimes, so that makes the Hamas leadership guilty of at least 2 war crimes

Unlike the Israeli government and IDF who try to target the Hamas leadership and fighters who unfortunately choose to hide amongst their civilian population and thereby cause civilian casualties

Any attempt to accuse Israel of war crimes, given that all the casualties are being caused by Hamas cowardice, therefore needs to be simply called out for the anti-semitism it is
 
Sven said:
I have read the article Lost, it was a tough read and stirred up all the emotions you'd expect. However, I disagree with you saying that it's what a Free Palestine looks like as I don't think you should associate all Palestinian people with the crimes of Hamas.
Click to expand...
That is irrelevant, because the extremists (Hamas, etc) have demonstrated their ability to seize power, so whatever the complicity of the "Palestinian people" (and 7/10 seems to have had broad support amongst them), the reality of a "free Palestine" is 7/10, but this time 24/7.
 
Sven said:
Glad you picked up on the intended tone 20s. The argument of you and Jaffa seems to be "well they started it" so I was continuing the theme.

Terrorist acts are wrong, war crimes are wrong.

Let's not pretend Israel didn't have a choice with their response, a powerful military will have plenty of options. They made their choice and will be judged accordingly, possibly in a future war crimes tribunal, we'll have to wait and see. Whether you agree with the State of Israel's actions depends if you think collective punishment is appropriate action, personally I don't believe more innocent children should be killed because of the acts of terrorists.

I have read the article Lost, it was a tough read and stirred up all the emotions you'd expect. However, I disagree with you saying that it's what a Free Palestine looks like as I don't think you should associate all Palestinian people with the crimes of Hamas.
Click to expand...
The only choice Israel had was not to retaliate at all and let’s be honest not one country on this planet would have sat back and done nothing after those atrocities.
Hamas picked a fight they clearly cannot win maybe they should have given it some thought before 07/10/23 and thought about the civilian casualties?

Just a thought.
 
April13th1970 said:
Incidentally both targeting civilians and using civilians as Human shields are war crimes, so that makes the Hamas leadership guilty of at least 2 war crimes

Unlike the Israeli government and IDF who try to target the Hamas leadership and fighters who unfortunately choose to hide amongst their civilian population and thereby cause civilian casualties

Any attempt to accuse Israel of war crimes, given that all the casualties are being caused by Hamas cowardice, therefore needs to be simply called out for the anti-semitism it is
Click to expand...
I agree with your first paragraph.

Your second paragraph is very disingenuous. I’ve no doubt the IDF are targeting the Hamas leadership but there is substantial evidence that they are doing so indiscriminately and without any care for civilian casualties. If you drop a bunker buster is a residential area no other outcome can be expected but massive civilian casualties.

The accusation of anti semitism in your third paragraph is nonsense. Israel is subject to the same laws as every other nation. Why should it be treated differently?

Finally the claim “Hamas is hiding behind the civilians” is undoubtedly true. However nowhere in international law does it say that relieves a nation of its obligations. It seems to be the only defence you, Lost, Jaffa and 20s have, but it just doesn’t work, legally at least. (I also don’t think it works morally either although clearly others have a different view).
 
Sven said:
Glad you picked up on the intended tone 20s. The argument of you and Jaffa seems to be "well they started it" so I was continuing the theme.

Terrorist acts are wrong, war crimes are wrong.

Let's not pretend Israel didn't have a choice with their response, a powerful military will have plenty of options. They made their choice and will be judged accordingly, possibly in a future war crimes tribunal, we'll have to wait and see. Whether you agree with the State of Israel's actions depends if you think collective punishment is appropriate action, personally I don't believe more innocent children should be killed because of the acts of terrorists.

I have read the article Lost, it was a tough read and stirred up all the emotions you'd expect. However, I disagree with you saying that it's what a Free Palestine looks like as I don't think you should associate all Palestinian people with the crimes of Hamas.
Click to expand...
but those terrorists are the controlling party in Gaza. I've already posted a link which over the last few years shows results of different opinion polls conducted by the Palestinian Authorty shows a significatnt majority of the people of Gaza support an armed conflict with Israel.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I agree with your first paragraph.

Your second paragraph is very disingenuous. I’ve no doubt the IDF are targeting the Hamas leadership but there is substantial evidence that they are doing so indiscriminately and without any care for civilian casualties. If you drop a bunker buster is a residential area no other outcome can be expected but massive civilian casualties.

The accusation of anti semitism in your third paragraph is nonsense. Israel is subject to the same laws as every other nation. Why should it be treated differently?

Finally the claim “Hamas is hiding behind the civilians” is undoubtedly true. However nowhere in international law does it say that relieves a nation of its obligations. It seems to be the only defence you, Lost, Jaffa and 20s have, but it just doesn’t work, legally at least. (I also don’t think it works morally either although clearly others have a different view).
Click to expand...
so what do you suggest Israel do? Just withdraw and leave it at that. Until the next time of course. And consider this. Hamas are still putting up a fierce resistance. Who would Hamas listen to in order to stop them? Iran and that's it and that's never gonna happen.
 
20togo said:
but those terrorists are the controlling party in Gaza. I've already posted a link which over the last few years shows results of different opinion polls conducted by the Palestinian Authorty shows a significatnt majority of the people of Gaza support an armed conflict with Israel.
Click to expand...
The polls don't surprise me, imagine if you lived in Gaza under the conditions imposed on you by a foreign power who had taken your land. It's not surprising that people would support an armed conflict, I think a lot of people would in that situation.

It doesn't necessarily mean they support the terrorist attacks and the types of acts listed in Lost's BBC article, or does it?
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
The only choice Israel had was not to retaliate at all and let’s be honest not one country on this planet would have sat back and done nothing after those atrocities.
Hamas picked a fight they clearly cannot win maybe they should have given it some thought before 07/10/23 and thought about the civilian casualties?

Just a thought.
Click to expand...
I wish Hamas would have thought about a lot of things but they're clearly past the point of rational or humane thought.

Israel did and still does have options, nobody has suggested that they just let it slide.
 
Lost Seasider said:
That is irrelevant, because the extremists (Hamas, etc) have demonstrated their ability to seize power, so whatever the complicity of the "Palestinian people" (and 7/10 seems to have had broad support amongst them), the reality of a "free Palestine" is 7/10, but this time 24/7.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's a twisted view on freedom.
 
Sven said:
The polls don't surprise me, imagine if you lived in Gaza under the conditions imposed on you by a foreign power who had taken your land. It's not surprising that people would support an armed conflict, I think a lot of people would in that situation.

It doesn't necessarily mean they support the terrorist attacks and the types of acts listed in Lost's BBC article, or does it?
Click to expand...
Oh come on, don't be so naive. Yep, I've already much earlier in this thread said about how living in Gaza must be pretty much like living in an open prison camp and i have a lot of sympathy with their plight. But if they support an armed conflict, and they can't take on the might of Israel in an all out attack on them then how on earth do you think they can do it? By the attacks like that that happened on 7/10 perhaps? So of course it "necessarily means". Perhaps, you think all these wives and friends of Hamas fighters going of to prepare for this attack [supposedly 3 years in the making] were completely unaware of what their husbands and friends were doing. As i said, Hamas said over 16,000 supposedly killed so far of which over 12,000 were women and children, So 75%. A highly disproportionate figure. Where were all the men? Hiding in tunnels behind their wives and children.

Just perhaps you want to believe one sides agenda but not the others.
 
20togo said:
Oh come on, don't be so naive. Yep, I've already much earlier in this thread said about how living in Gaza must be pretty much like living in an open prison camp and i have a lot of sympathy with their plight. But if they support an armed conflict, and they can't take on the might of Israel in an all out attack on them then how on earth do you think they can do it? By the attacks like that that happened on 7/10 perhaps? So of course it "necessarily means". Perhaps, you think all these wives and friends of Hamas fighters going of to prepare for this attack [supposedly 3 years in the making] were completely unaware of what their husbands and friends were doing. As i said, Hamas said over 16,000 supposedly killed so far of which over 12,000 were women and children, So 75%. A highly disproportionate figure. Where were all the men? Hiding in tunnels behind their wives and children.

Just perhaps you want to believe one sides agenda but not the others.
Click to expand...

Can I ask you if you think that the Christian community in Gaza support Hamas?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Can I ask you if you think that the Christian community in Gaza support Hamas?
Click to expand...
that's a curveball question. Without any real conviction, I'd probably say no but then perhaps Id question why they choose to live there under a ruling party deep rooted in religious hatred. Of course, getting out would not necessarily be easy to. But prior to 7/10 the world was a different place. A quick google tells me there are less than a 1000 with that number having significantly dropped.
 
20togo said:
Oh come on, don't be so naive. Yep, I've already much earlier in this thread said about how living in Gaza must be pretty much like living in an open prison camp and i have a lot of sympathy with their plight. But if they support an armed conflict, and they can't take on the might of Israel in an all out attack on them then how on earth do you think they can do it? By the attacks like that that happened on 7/10 perhaps? So of course it "necessarily means". Perhaps, you think all these wives and friends of Hamas fighters going of to prepare for this attack [supposedly 3 years in the making] were completely unaware of what their husbands and friends were doing. As i said, Hamas said over 16,000 supposedly killed so far of which over 12,000 were women and children, So 75%. A highly disproportionate figure. Where were all the men? Hiding in tunnels behind their wives and children.

Just perhaps you want to believe one sides agenda but not the others.
Click to expand...
You don't sound sympathetic. You sound like advocate war crimes against them, and that you think they deserve it.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
100% agree with your last paragraph and yes it is shocking to see.

But don’t you think Hamas should have thought about this before they opened Pandora’s box?

07/10/23 took 3 years in the planning I’ve read but how long did it take Hamas to consider the civilians after that day and what the consequences would be as for me they clearly didn’t give it one thought.
Click to expand...
Israel declared war, formally. As such they are bound by the " laws of war " and International Humanitarian Law. We know and agree what Hamas is. But Israel is blatantly ignoring their LEGAL responsibilities to protect civiliams. My own view is that Israel only values the lives of its own citizens.
 
20togo said:
What are these options. Protest to the Court of Human Rights how naughty Hamas are!
Click to expand...
A military intervention operating inside of international law would be a good start. Unless you want to tear up the rule book?
 
Sven said:
You don't sound sympathetic. You sound like advocate war crimes against them, and that you think they deserve it.
Click to expand...
Have you read my post. So me saying it must be like living in a prison camp isn't having sympathy?

Anyway, you said Israel had options. So are you going to tell me them or not?
 
Sven said:
You don't sound sympathetic. You sound like advocate war crimes against them, and that you think they deserve it.
Click to expand...
I think if truth be known many of the so called civilians are harbouring the terrorists as many are Sons, fathers, cousins, uncles brother in laws etc.
You have to ask yourself why are they so many civilians still held out in Gaza city after all that’s gone on? It’s just madness.

And finally Israel does not have an option like you say other than to stop the war and do you think it will? It’s still not got all the people responsible yet for those massacres on 07/10/23 it’s not going to stop until Hamas are gone.
 
Last edited:
Brazil said:
Israel declared war, formally. As such they are bound by the " laws of war " and International Humanitarian Law. We know and agree what Hamas is. But Israel is blatantly ignoring their LEGAL responsibilities to protect civiliams. My own view is that Israel only values the lives of its own citizens.
Click to expand...
So we know and agree what Hamas is. And by that you'll mean that they are a terrorist organisation. But you need to accept they are much more than that. They are the ruling party in the territory of Gaza which is part of the state of Palestine which is recognised by 139 members of the United Nations. You seem to overlook that fact. So does that not bind them to all the things you suggest Israel are bound by?
 
20togo said:
so you've evidence to PROVE they are not?
Click to expand...
No I don't, do you have evidence to PROVE they have been?

My opinion comes from international opinion on the current conflict and also Israel's past record on international law and human rights for Arabs.

I guess we'll have to wait a while to see the truth, with thousands more kids dying in the meantime, either through weapons or a humanitarian crisis.
 
20togo said:
So we know and agree what Hamas is. And by that you'll mean that they are a terrorist organisation. But you need to accept they are much more than that. They are the ruling party in the territory of Gaza which is part of the state of Palestine which is recognised by 139 members of the United Nations. You seem to overlook that fact. So does that not bind them to all the things you suggest Israel are bound by?
Click to expand...
Hamas are not a state
 
Brazil said:
Israel declared war, formally. As such they are bound by the " laws of war " and International Humanitarian Law. We know and agree what Hamas is. But Israel is blatantly ignoring their LEGAL responsibilities to protect civiliams. My own view is that Israel only values the lives of its own citizens.
Click to expand...
Maybe Hamas should put a distance then between them and the civilians instead of hiding behind them?
 
20togo said:
I didn't say they were. Read what I said.
Click to expand...
Ok we are agreed. Hamas made the attack on 7/10 and Israel is at war with Hamas (and not the Palestinian state which in any case is not universally recognised).
Israel as a state are (should be) bound by international law.
In contrast, Hamas are a lunatic, genocidal terrorist group and do not follow any recognised law - that is not a justification of what they have done btw.

Do you think that Israel should follow international law that applies to states?

The guilt by association argument that you and others have put forwards breaks down in the case of the small Gazan Christian community. I think it is safe to say that they are not allies of Hamas and yet they are facing the same collective punishment as everyone else in Gaza.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Agree but Hamas are ruling Gaza though and have been for decades why haven’t these civilians revolted and ruled them out?
Hamas have blood on their hands just like Israel do in killing civilians in Gaza.
Click to expand...
Again the guilt by association argument.

Hamas seems to have banned elections - the last election in Gaza was in 2006, in which Hamas got 44% (I think). They were certainly not in the majority then. The more moderate Palestinian authority got something like 40%.
Without endangering their own lives, how can the majority of Gazan's who oppose Hamas get rid of Hamas if there are no elections?

en.wikipedia.org

Governance of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Last edited:
Sven said:
No I don't, do you have evidence to PROVE they have been?

My opinion comes from international opinion on the current conflict and also Israel's past record on international law and human rights for Arabs.

I guess we'll have to wait a while to see the truth, with thousands more kids dying in the meantime, either through weapons or a humanitarian crisis.
Click to expand...
I doubt that.

A real international lawyer: Is Israel’s response to Hamas’s attacks justified under international law?
 
The way this is going 100% of the remaining population in gaza will be hamas. This right wing populist Israeli govt are no better than terrorists, they're corrupt to the core and the sooner Netanyahu is dealt with the better. None of this is serving israel very well, it's certainly not making it safer in the short or long term.
 
Shandypants said:
The way this is going 100% of the remaining population in gaza will be hamas. This right wing populist Israeli govt are no better than terrorists, they're corrupt to the core and the sooner Netanyahu is dealt with the better. None of this is serving israel very well, it's certainly not making it safer in the short or long term.
Click to expand...
Islamist have been attacking and killing Jews for the last 75 years it’s the way it is the Palestinian children are brought up hating the Jews so it’ll carry on another 75 years they just cannot and will not accept a Jewish state in that region.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Ok we are agreed. Hamas made the attack on 7/10 and Israel is at war with Hamas (and not the Palestinian state which in any case is not universally recognised).
Israel as a state are (should be) bound by international law.
In contrast, Hamas are a lunatic, genocidal terrorist group and do not follow any recognised law - that is not a justification of what they have done btw.

Do you think that Israel should follow international law that applies to states?

The guilt by association argument that you and others have put forwards breaks down in the case of the small Gazan Christian community. I think it is safe to say that they are not allies of Hamas and yet they are facing the same collective punishment as everyone else in Gaza.
Click to expand...
Jeez, are you even reading all my posts. You've got into your head that the state of Palestine is NOT universally recognised. I've already proven fo S you a while back that Palestine is recognised by 139 of the United Nations member states. And Hamas runs one of the two territories making up the state of Palestine. So as such it is much more than a terrorist organisation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top