War again

Lost Seasider said:
Those are news outlets, not sources.

Also, taking the huge leap of faith that the sources are correct, is that 2,800 dead Hamas fighters, or 2,800 dead civilians?denier
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Ah.

So you're a war atrocity denier.

Israel is copying the Russian playbook. Deny ever killing anyone who didn't deserve it.

Don't be stupid.

You have very little credibility left. Every death on both sides is terrible. What pisses me off is the defence of the Israeli Government who ALWAYS overreact.
 
UN supply depot destroyed in Gaza, Israeli bombing.

Safe route declared by Israel and then bombed.

Crossing point from Egypt into Gaza, loads of lorries of supplies ready to go, Israel bombed the road Gaza side.

Hospital bombed

Israel's President saying all Gaza residents are legitimate targets

Does no one care about Israel breaking International law? Or is it only the terrorist HAMAS who break it? UN, Amnesty, MSF, Labour Party, China, all calling for attacks on uninvolved civilians to cease. Causing another tragedy never does balance the original tragedy . I don't know why we are even arguing about this.

Jaw not war, please. De escalate, target HAMAS leadership, not unarmed defenceless children.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Those are news outlets, not sources.

Also, taking the huge leap of faith that the sources are correct, is that 2,800 dead Hamas fighters, or 2,800 dead civilians?
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Most death toll numbers seem to be coming from the Palestine Health Ministry. The accuracy of this number will clearly be pinned down by independent third parties over the coming weeks and months, and it will rise as that happens. Lewis Goodall, journalist for LBC, tweeted earlier that the World Health Organisation had stated 3,000 deaths in Gaza, although I haven't seen WHO announce that publicly. They are, however, urgently condeming Israels attacks on hospitals. There are now reports (and pictures) that Israel has bombed Al Ahli hospital, with hundreds dead. Women and children are dying, of this there is no doubt. The United Nations earlier today reported that Israeli airstrikes have hit a school in a UN refugee camp. Please do not imply that they are only killing Hamas fighters. If you support Israel's actions, you have to make the case that this is proportionate and acceptable as collateral. If that's your belief, I find it abhorrent. But not as abhorrent as pretending it is only the terrorists being killed and robbing the innocent people caught up in this - men, women and children - of their victimhood. To insinuate only Hamas fighers are dying is to construct a safe, fantasy land. Not to live in reality.
 
Matesrates said:
Reports that hundreds have been killed in a hospital bombed in Gaza. Israel will start losing support if this continues.
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I think it is quite unexpected the tone shift we have seen from western leaders. They all lined up extremely strongly behind Israel. I dont know who they think Netanyahu is and why they didnt see this coming, but the explicit and unhidden war crimes seem to have actually put a few cracks in that previous unconditional, consensus. I hope that they find the courage, which shouldn't be needed, to speak up and stand out against these war crimes, in the way they did against Hamas's terrorism, especially considering they actually have diplomatic ties to Israel.
 
foggy said:
I think it is quite unexpected the tone shift we have seen from western leaders. They all lined up extremely strongly behind Israel. I dont know who they think Netanyahu is and why they didnt see this coming, but the explicit and unhidden war crimes seem to have actually put a few cracks in that previous unconditional, consensus. I hope that they find the courage, which shouldn't be needed, to speak up and stand out against these war crimes, in the way they did against Hamas's terrorism, especially considering they actually have diplomatic ties to Israel.
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This could be an Armageddon moment, if this inflames the likes of Iran and other Islamic states to enter the war.
 
Netanyahu now targeting hospitals.

Ethnic cleansing on an industrial level.

Anyone standing up for him now?
 
Ollygon said:
Ah.

So you're a war atrocity denier.

Israel is copying the Russian playbook. Deny ever killing anyone who didn't deserve it.

Don't be stupid.

You have very little credibility left. Every death on both sides is terrible. What pisses me off is the defence of the Israeli Government who ALWAYS overreact.
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I didn't think it would get this bad this quickly.

Netanyahu and the Zioist zealots completely to blame now.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Those are news outlets, not sources.

Also, taking the huge leap of faith that the sources are correct, is that 2,800 dead Hamas fighters, or 2,800 dead civilians?
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You are full of one sided hatred, this is an humanitarian tragedy for both sides not just one. Why can’t you admit that innocent civilians, in thier thousands, from both sides have been killed?
 
hertfordseasider said:
You are full of one sided hatred, this is an humanitarian tragedy for both sides not just one. Why can’t you admit that that innocent civilians, in thier thousands, from both sides have been killed?
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I suggest you have a look back at Ollygons many posts on this thread. A poster who has been pretty clear with his anti semitic views.
 
hertfordseasider said:
You are full of one sided hatred, this is an humanitarian tragedy for both sides not just one. Why can’t you admit that innocent civilians, in thier thousands, from both sides have been killed?
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Partly because I don't believe anything that comes from Palestinian sources, so we've no idea how reliable those numbers are, or how "civilian" the victims really were, or what the circumstances were behind the strike, or indeed who conducted the strike in the first place.

At a more fundamental level, everything that Israel does has a wider goal, to prevent the kind of atrocities that Hamas perpetrated 10 days ago, everything that Hamas does has a single goal, to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible on Jews worldwide.

I am not in favour of rape and murder, if you think that's one-sided hatred, then that is a label I will wear with pride.
 
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Lost Seasider said:
Partly because I don't believe anything that comes from Palestinian sources, so we've no idea how reliable those numbers are, or how "civilian" the victims really were, or what the circumstances were behind the strike, or indeed who conducted the strike in the first place.

At a more fundamental level, everything that Israel does has a wider goal, to prevent the kind of atrocities that Hamas perpetrated 10 days ago, everything that Hamas does has a single goal, to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible on Jews worldwide.

I'm not in favour of rape and murder, if you think that's one-sided hatred, then that's a label I'll wear with pride.
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Lost, I think this situation has gone beyond our petty AVFTT fisticuffs. I think we all need to have concerns about this situation and want peace..for civilians on both sides.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Lost, I think this situation has gone beyond our petty AVFTT fisticuffs. I think we all need to have concerns about this situation and want peace..for civilians on both sides.
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I'd suggest that a great many of Losts posts are in reply to anti semitic comments by Ollygon.
 
Lost Seasider said:
At a more fundamental level, everything that Israel does has a wider goal, to prevent the kind of atrocities that Hamas perpetrated 10 days ago, everything that Hamas does has a single goal, to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible on Jews worldwide.
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When you start saying things like this you are really writing a blank cheque for Israel to do what they want. If politicians started saying this I would find this exceptionally dangerous rhetoric used to justify bombing hospitals and schools
 
20togo said:
I'd suggest that a great many of Losts posts are in reply to anti semitic comments by Ollygon.
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Partly.

Ultimately, Hamas have demonstrated exactly what they want, which is to say the violent death of every Jew in Palestine, what is left to discuss?

I have every sympathy for the genuinely innocent Palestinians, but everything that is now happening lays at the door of Hamas (plus Iran, etc), so, if we have to take sides, I know which side I'm on, and it's not that of the baby-killing rapist murderers aka Hamas.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It's not a competition.
What happened to the Israelis was disgusting, this is also disgusting. It's not really the thread for your accusations of hypocrisy, everyone is horrified by needless murder of whoever by whoever.
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....but are they? I see nothing in Ollygons posts to suggest that. In fact he stated that Netanyahu and the Zionists are completely to blame. How do you explain that? As I said, there are afew who haven't condemned the actions of Hamas at all.
 
20togo said:
do fuck off. Completely to blame? More anti semitism from you. Yet the mods allow you to get away with it.
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You moron. I'm against the extreme right wing Zionist government.

Hopefully the sensible JEWISH voters will get rid of Netanyahu soon, before someone else dies.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Partly.

Ultimately, Hamas have demonstrated exactly what they want, which is to say the violent death of every Jew in Palestine, what is left to discuss?

I have every sympathy for the genuinely innocent Palestinians, but everything that is now happening lays at the door of Hamas (plus Iran, etc), so, if we have to take sides, I know which side I'm on, and it's not that of the baby-killing rapist murderers aka Hamas.
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What's left to discuss is whether Israel should be bombing hospitals and schools and murdering potentially thousands of innocent civilians. Women and children, seeking shelter and medical aid. What's left to discuss is whether they should be allowed to starve millions of people of food, electricity and water. Whether any country will use its diplomatic ties and urge for restraint. Whether any nation will stand behind the World Health Organisation, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the countless other NGOs pleading with Israel to show any kind of restraint in their indiscriminate retaliation. Israel may have carte blanche in your eyes to commit whatever atrocities it seems necessary, but most people see this as a tragic situation that needs restraint. There does not appear to be any strategy right now, just a hail of thousands of rockets and bombs and indiscriminate mass killing. The West stood as one in contempt at Hamas's actions. They should do the same with what is happening right now. This is a humanitarian crisis, and these countries have diplomatic ties to Israel. They have influence, they can try to curtail them, to focus their efforts. To reduce the bloodshed.
 
Ollygon said:
You moron. I'm against the extreme right wing Zionist government.

Hopefully the sensible JEWISH voters will get rid of Netanyahu soon, before someone else dies.
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bullshit. I saw your thumbs up to the anti semitic comment about America inviting all Jews to go and live there.
 
20togo said:
....but are they? I see nothing in Ollygons posts to suggest that. In fact he stated that Netanyahu and the Zionists are completely to blame. How do you explain that? As I said, there are afew who haven't condemned the actions of Hamas at all.
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We are on the verge of WW3 and your main contribution to the thread is to accuse other posters of hypocrisy, to try to score points.
 
20togo said:
....but are they? I see nothing in Ollygons posts to suggest that. In fact he stated that Netanyahu and the Zionists are completely to blame. How do you explain that?
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Fair enough but in post 377 Lost is essentially saying Hamas are completely to blame so shouldn’t you be calling him out as well as Ollygon? After all it’s not Hamas who are currently firing the artillery shells and dropping the bombs on Gaza.

Seems to me there’s a good argument to be made that Lost and Ollygon are opposite sides of the same coin.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
💯
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You and 20, and to some degree Lost ( although I think he's changing a bit) are deranged.

As with most things you can only see one side. I put the other side. You must hate being confronted by people who put a mirror up to your face. It must be a horrible sight.

By the way, reports now talk of 500 killed. This is tragic whichever side suffers, but I reiterate that THIS attack is entirely the fault of Netanyahu and his cohorts. He's created the blood lust for revenge- at any price
 
Lost Seasider said:
Partly.

Ultimately, Hamas have demonstrated exactly what they want, which is to say the violent death of every Jew in Palestine, what is left to discuss?

I have every sympathy for the genuinely innocent Palestinians, but everything that is now happening lays at the door of Hamas (plus Iran, etc), so, if we have to take sides, I know which side I'm on, and it's not that of the baby-killing rapist murderers aka Hamas.
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What is left to discuss? Do you think Biden has come all the way from America because there's nothing more to discuss! Don't ever enter the diplomatic service.
 
Ollygon said:
You and 20, and to some degree Lost ( although I think he's changing a bit) are deranged.

As with most things you can only see one side. I put the other side. You must hate being confronted by people who put a mirror up to your face. It must be a horrible sight.

By the way, reports now talk of 500 killed. This is tragic whichever side suffers, but I reiterate that THIS attack is entirely the fault of Netanyahu and his cohorts. He's created the blood lust for revenge- at any price
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Absolute bullshit.

It’s the fault of Hamas attacking Israel a week last Saturday or have you been asleep for a week?

Can you not understand had this attack not happened we wouldn’t be seeing this blood bath right now?

For once take those bloody anti semitism specs off and understand why this has both happened and escalated to what it is today.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
We are on the verge of WW3 and your main contribution to the thread is to accuse other posters of hypocrisy, to try to score points.
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absolute nonsense. I'm calling out a poster who has posted nothing but an anti-semitic stance from the outset. Don't believe me, go and have a look at his first post on this thread. Which was prior to any subsequent actions by Israel.
 
foggy said:
What's left to discuss is whether Israel should be bombing hospitals and schools and murdering potentially thousands of innocent civilians. Women and children, seeking shelter and medical aid. What's left to discuss is whether they should be allowed to starve millions of people of food, electricity and water. Whether any country will use its diplomatic ties and urge for restraint. Whether any nation will stand behind the World Health Organisation, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the countless other NGOs pleading with Israel to show any kind of restraint in their indiscriminate retaliation. Israel may have carte blanche in your eyes to commit whatever atrocities it seems necessary, but most people see this as a tragic situation that needs restraint. There does not appear to be any strategy right now, just a hail of thousands of rockets and bombs and indiscriminate mass killing. The West stood as one in contempt at Hamas's actions. They should do the same with what is happening right now. This is a humanitarian crisis, and these countries have diplomatic ties to Israel. They have influence, they can try to curtail them, to focus their efforts. To reduce the bloodshed.
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To be fair I think the international community, and the US in particular, are working quite hard in the background to rein in the Netanyahu government and ensure the reprisals are proportionate. Unfortunately so far they don’t seem to have had much success, except perhaps that the threatened ground offensive hasn’t yet happened. The big test (and coming very, very soon) is to ensure the humanitarian aid starts to flow.
 
20togo said:
Everybody should be against that but why is there a lack of condemnation from some on here over the Hamas atrocities?
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There isn't, I know what Ollygone has been posting, I have been reading this thread since it started and as usual, for certain posters on here it becomes completely one sided. Hamas started this particular event in the 2 sides conflict and thousands of innocent Israeli lives were taken by terrorists, it was shocking and deplorable. The terrorists hide amongst the civilians of Gaza, which is a cowardly way to behave and consequently there have been retaliatory strikes against Hamas targets where I have no doubt many Terrorists have been killed and some civilians as well.

Hamas are continuing, with the support of Hezbollah and Iran, to try and bombard Israel with missiles and fortunately Israel have a very good air defence system so most of the missiles have been successfully stopped, if they hadn't been we would have seen many thousands of innocent Israeli deaths so they absolutely have the right to fight back, they have to.

However, the atrocities of the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists are one thing as is retaliating against them, but people can surely see that as well as innocent lives lost tragically in Israel is one thing, there have also been thousands of innocent men, women and Children in the Gaza that have been killed by Israeli retaliation; schools, hospitals (They are reporting one just now where 4000 refugees were sheltering as they can't get across the border), Convoys of civilians trying to flee in the ceasefire. There is no excuse for that either and are a humanitarian catastrophe along with what I have outlined above.

War is unacceptable in any form but it will continue to happen across the globe until infinity and this is no different. It is also bringing in the likes of Iran, USA, China, Russia, other Arab states, Europe, which in itself is a further problem. There needs to be some balance on here, the whole thing is terrible there are going to be many thousands more innocent lives lost on both sides, but Israel have the upper hand strength wise and of course Hamas and Hezbollah aren't going to stop but it stands to reason that where we are now many more Palestinian civilians are going to die than Israeli because it is so one sided, but Hamas don't care and there is blood on their hands.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
To be fair I think the international community, and the US in particular, are working quite hard in the background to rein in the Netanyahu government and ensure the reprisals are proportionate. Unfortunately so far they don’t seem to have had much success, except perhaps that the threatened ground offensive hasn’t yet happened. The big test (and coming very, very soon) is to ensure the humanitarian aid starts to flow.
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Yeah, what I mean is, that is what is 'left'. They action they seem to be currently taking. In LS's view, they should be sitting back and letting Israel so what it wants. No diplomacy whatsoever. Indiscriminate killing.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Absolute bullshit.

It’s the fault of Hamas attacking Israel a week last Saturday or have you been asleep for a week?

Can you not understand had this attack not happened we wouldn’t be seeing this blood bath right now?

For once take those bloody anti semitism specs off and understand why this has both happened and escalated to what it is today.
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Its pointless responding to you and 20s.

You only read what you want to read. You'll never change with your bigoted right-wing views, whether it's Israel/ Gaza, Johnson, Trump, Brexit,Covid and so on and so on.

You deserve each other.
 
hertfordseasider said:
There isn't, I know what Ollygone has been posting, I have been reading this thread since it started and as usual, for certain posters on here it becomes completely one sided. Hamas started this particular event in the 2 sides conflict and thousands of innocent Israeli lives were taken by terrorists, it was shocking and deplorable. The terrorists hide amongst the civilians of Gaza, which is a cowardly way to behave and consequently there have been retaliatory strikes against Hamas targets where I have no doubt many Terrorists have been killed and some civilians as well.

Hamas are continuing, with the support of Hezbollah and Iran, to try and bombard Israel with missiles and fortunately Israel have a very good air defence system so most of the missiles have been successfully stopped, if they hadn't been we would have seen many thousands of innocent Israeli deaths so they absolutely have the right to fight back, they have to.

However, the atrocities of the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists are one thing as is retaliating against them, but people can surely see that as well as innocent lives lost tragically in Israel is one thing, there have also been thousands of innocent men, women and Children in the Gaza that have been killed by Israeli retaliation; schools, hospitals (They are reporting one just now where 4000 refugees were sheltering as they can't get across the border), Convoys of civilians trying to flee in the ceasefire. There is no excuse for that either and are a humanitarian catastrophe along with what I have outlined above.

War is unacceptable in any form but it will continue to happen across the globe until infinity and this is no different. It is also bringing in the likes of Iran, USA, China, Russia, other Arab states, Europe, which in itself is a further problem. There needs to be some balance on here, the whole thing is terrible there are going to be many thousands more innocent lives lost on both sides, but Israel have the upper hand strength wise and of course Hamas and Hezbollah aren't going to stop but it stands to reason that where we are now many more Palestinian civilians are going to die than Israeli because it is so one sided, but Hamas don't care and there is blood on their hands.
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yep, good post.
 
Ollygon said:
Its pointless responding to you and 20s.

You only read what you want to read. You'll never change with your bigoted right-wing views, whether it's Israel/ Gaza, Johnson, Trump, Brexit,Covid and so on and so on.

You deserve each other.
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I find it truly amazing you have never once acknowledged on here what happened a week last Saturday and how 1,300 Jewish people mainly civilians men women children and babies were murdered in cold blood.

Serious question do you actually know what happened that Saturday morning as I'm certain you think Israel just decided to bomb the shit out of Gaza for no apparent reason.

Open yer dam eyes you fool.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
What is left to discuss? Do you think Biden has come all the way from America because there's nothing more to discuss! Don't ever enter the diplomatic service.
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He didn’t look well to be honest, my Dad suffered with a type of dementia and Biden has that look about him.

100% he shouldn’t be president no matter how good a politician he has been.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I find it truly amazing you have never once acknowledged on here what happened a week last Saturday and how 1,300 Jewish people mainly civilians men women children and babies were murdered in cold blood.

Serious question do you actually know what happened that Saturday morning as I'm certain you think Israel just decided to bomb the shit out of Gaza for no apparent reason.

Open yer dam eyes you fool.
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He’s a wind up merchant, has to be
 
Ollygon said:
Its pointless responding to you and 20s.

You only read what you want to read. You'll never change with your bigoted right-wing views, whether it's Israel/ Gaza, Johnson, Trump, Brexit,Covid and so on and so on.

You deserve each other.
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and you'll never change your looney left wing view. Not sure, I've ever had much if anything to say about Trump, very little on Johnson, and as for Covid there was just one idiot who wouldn't accept that it was China's fault who created the virus that killed millions around the world. Brexit, if we rejoin then that's fine. Doesn't bother me either way. On the other hand, you need to give your brain a rest as it's full of hatred on so many issues. Can't be good for your mental health. So try to take care of it, chuck.
 
20togo said:
and you'll never change your looney left wing view. Not sure, I've ever had much if anything to say about Trump, very little on Johnson, and as for Covid there was just one idiot who wouldn't accept that it was China's fault who created the virus that killed millions around the world. Brexit, if we rejoin then that's fine. Doesn't bother me either way. On the other hand, you need to give your brain a rest as it's full of hatred on so many issues. Can't be good for your mental health. So try to take care of it, chuck.
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He’s a nut job
 
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