War again

I don’t know anything about it at all BUT just a little bit of hope is surely given by the fact that the first three letters of Palestine are PAL…….that’s got to mean something??…..a good Omen surely?
 
I see one of Israel's biggest, and certainly the oldest, newspapers is calling the the Israeli Government's rabid anti Palestine campaign a factor in the Hamas atrocities.
 
The treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israelis is a tragedy. Gaza is an apartheid state that is a the mercy of Israel, its an open prison. Children are born into that, it's a no hope environment which is a breeding ground for young fighting men for radicalisation.
Israel have killed far more innocent Palestinians than the other way, that said I found the footage of hostage taking a bridge too far.
What is coming is going to be slaughter on a massive scale. The world will watch, the West wants a "friendly" state in the middle East.
 
If Israel is as bad if not worse than Hamas why aren’t the west backing Hamas instead of being firmly behind Israel?

Genuine question by the way as some on here think we are backing the wrong side.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
If Israel is as bad if not worse than Hamas why aren’t the west backing Hamas instead of being firmly behind Israel?

Genuine question by the way as some on here think we are backing the wrong side.
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Because the US wants a friend in the middle East. They'll turn a blind eye to almost anything for that.
 
Shandypants said:
Because the US wants a friend in the middle East. They'll turn a blind eye to almost anything for that.
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Not just the US though is it?

Even Sunak was in a synagogue today saying the whole of the UK is behind Israel.

Many European countries firmly behind Israel.

Just seems one or two on here aren’t for some strange reason but backing a bunch of murdering terrorists instead.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Maybe Hamas accidentally shot those 260 civilians at that music festival. 🤷‍♂️
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The guy in that interview raised what were a lot of good points and of course as you'd expect he is pro Palestinian but his blatant lies cannot ever benefit the cause if he continues to deny that innocent civilians weren't targetted. The overwhelming evidence shows that they were.
 
20togo said:
The guy in that interview raised what were a lot of good points and of course as you'd expect he is pro Palestinian but his blatant lies cannot ever benefit the cause if he continues to deny that innocent civilians weren't targetted. The overwhelming evidence shows that they were.
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Indeed I’m just shocked some on here actually believe what they’ve seen in that video as the truth and nothing but it.
 
20togo said:
How the hell can you call it an excellent interview when he blatantly lies about Hamas not targetting civilians?
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Because he gets the points across that some of you on here refuse to even consider.
Let’s just see from here on in, who condemns the massacre of civilians on the Palestinian side, or the war crimes of collective punishment, which is what is being done by cutting off food, water, fuel and electric to Gaza.
 
Johnno said:
Because he gets the points across that some of you on here refuse to even consider.
Let’s just see from here on in, who condemns the massacre of civilians on the Palestinian side, or the war crimes of collective punishment, which is what is being done by cutting off food, water, fuel and electric to Gaza.
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Seems that you refuse to consider that he's told a blatant lie. Of course, historically there should be a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians but let 's not deny what has just happened. The old saying two wrongs don't make a right seems to be one you want to ignore in your attempt to justify what has happened. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject like so many on here seem to think you are but for me the answer is that this will always be a lose/lose situation as it has been pretty much since the state f Israel was created. And why that state has to be much firmer and more aggressive in certain situations with other nations who want to wipe them off the face of the earth.
 
20togo said:
Seems that you refuse to consider that he's told a blatant lie. Of course, historically there should be a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians but let 's not deny what has just happened. The old saying two wrongs don't make a right seems to be one you want to ignore in your attempt to justify what has happened. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject like so many on here seem to think you are but for me the answer is that this will always be a lose/lose situation as it has been pretty much since the state f Israel was created. And why that state has to be much firmer and more aggressive in certain situations with other nations who want to wipe them off the face of the earth.
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I’m not trying to justify what’s happened, it’s abhorrent, I just think that people should consider what makes people willing to commit such atrocities.
Did you catch the bit in the vid where he says he doesn’t accept the killing of civilians by either side (using the word ‘accept’ as a broken English way of saying ‘condone’?), Do we even know when that interview took place, and how much detail about the rave massacre was known by that time?
Anyway , I’m out, we’ll be going round in circles. We’re both entitled to our own opinions, and we both know each other’s.
 
Netanyahu is an evil piece of dirt but our government fail to condemn his actions. When you think they couldn't sink any lower.
 
Johnno said:
I’m not trying to justify what’s happened, it’s abhorrent, I just think that people should consider what makes people willing to commit such atrocities.
Did you catch the bit in the vid where he says he doesn’t accept the killing of civilians by either side (using the word ‘accept’ as a broken English way of saying ‘condone’?), Do we even know when that interview took place, and how much detail about the rave massacre was known by that time?
Anyway , I’m out, we’ll be going round in circles. We’re both entitled to our own opinions, and we both know each other’s.
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with regards to your first line, I felt i've made it pretty clear that there should be a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian cause and you can understand if that's the right word why the people feel aggrieved. But Hamas and certain other nations wanting to wipe Israel of the face of the earth will never be an acceptable solution and so to some extent why Israel must never show a sign of weakness. And of course their heavy handedness no doubt has probably over stepped the mark on too many occasions. And one thing is for certain, There;s been far greater minds than those on AVFTT doing their best to find a solution where everyone can live in peace. But do some Arab nations want that? Maybe there needs to be a recognition on here of that point before some jump in to condemn a country who seemingly has to live in fear on a day by day basis.
 
Macseasider said:
Don't think there are sides to take in all this other than complete condemnation of these actions against innocent kids. I pray for those taken hostage. It's chilling.

Both sides are wrong. There has been nothing righteous from either side for decades in the West Bank.
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I agree with all that but just one point.

This is all happening in Gaza. The West Bank is relatively quiet although there are elements in this currently extreme RW Israeli government who are trying to provoke a confrontation.

I also think it’s wrong to assume all Israelis have the same pov. It’s only a few weeks ago that hundreds of thousands of Israelis were protesting the attempts by Netanyahu’s government to subvert the courts and the rule of law. And a great many of them have been critical of the actions of settlers in particular, designed to humiliate and provoke Palestinians. However when the country is under threat the people do come together. But many of them blame, and won’t forget or forgive, Netanyahu.
 
Wouldn’t have happened on Trumps watch. He’d brought stability to the area with the Abraham accords and making real progress. But still at least we don’t have any mean tweets now!!
 
Palestine is a Roman name. After the Jewish people were forcibly exiled (again) the name was applied in 63BCE. Even the name Palestine has negative connotations for many Jewish people.
Bloodtangerine said:
I don’t know anything about it at all BUT just a little bit of hope is surely given by the fact that the first three letters of Palestine are PAL…….that’s got to mean something??…..a good Omen surely?
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It is a clusterfeck of epic proportions. Couldn’t believe the hatred on both sides when I was over there. There will not be peace over there until mankind evolves considerably more.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
If Israel is as bad if not worse than Hamas why aren’t the west backing Hamas instead of being firmly behind Israel?

Genuine question by the way as some on here think we are backing the wrong side.
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The US trade votes for the oppression of the Palestinian people.

The rest of the West follow the US by supporting a prison camp in Gaza run by the Israelis

The West have had years to sit round a table and give the Palestinians some sort of freedom but they have not dealt with it.
 
20togo said:
How the hell can you call it an excellent interview when he blatantly lies about Hamas not targetting civilians?
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He also said "mainly military targets" (3.55mins). There is nuance to the whole debate which many don't have the capacity to understand.

Footage should have been shown of the Festival during the interview and the poor woman in the back of the truck whilst asking the interviewee to explain what was going on. He may not have seen that evidence.

Again though this is a completely pointless debate if people cannot see both sides and their grievances.
 
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Don’t think what happened in Israel can’t happen here. You’ve seen the demonstrations in London Manchester, hundreds of thousands military aged males arriving every year that we know nothing about, all done on purpose and supported by hand wringing liberals. Where do you think their loyalties lie. It only needs to escalate and the order will go out, what happens then? I wouldn’t go to London for love nor money nowadays
 
Seasider3610 said:
The US trade votes for the oppression of the Palestinian people.

The rest of the West follow the US by supporting a prison camp in Gaza run by the Israelis

The West have had years to sit round a table and give the Palestinians some sort of freedom but they have not dealt with it.
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Completely understand the issues surrounding the Palestinian people but I specifically was referring to Hamas here and how can anyone support them.
 
Memphisboy said:
Wouldn’t have happened on Trumps watch. He’d brought stability to the area with the Abraham accords and making real progress. But still at least we don’t have any mean tweets now!!
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Wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference, whoever was in power, because:
  1. this was an attack by Iran in reality, and;
  2. Hamas believes in the total destruction of Israel, so any agreement short of that still wouldn't stop the attacks.
 
Memphisboy said:
Don’t think what happened in Israel can’t happen here. You’ve seen the demonstrations in London Manchester, hundreds of thousands military aged males arriving every year that we know nothing about, all done on purpose and supported by hand wringing liberals. Where do you think their loyalties lie. It only needs to escalate and the order will go out, what happens then? I wouldn’t go to London for love nor money nowadays
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"Hand wringing liberals" WTF does that actually mean? Congratulations, you've just won AVFTT Tuesday bullshit bingo.
 
Memphisboy said:
Don’t think what happened in Israel can’t happen here. You’ve seen the demonstrations in London Manchester, hundreds of thousands military aged males arriving every year that we know nothing about, all done on purpose and supported by hand wringing liberals. Where do you think their loyalties lie. It only needs to escalate and the order will go out, what happens then? I wouldn’t go to London for love nor money nowadays
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"Military aged males", "supported by hand wringing liberals", "where do their loyalties lie", "and the order will go out".

Crikey! All dramatic, emotive, generic right-wing guff intended to scare the gullible.

All absolute bollux of course.

Some may conclude that you`re a bit of a snowflake for being fearful of visiting London.

Because of what exactly?
 
OneStepBeyond said:
He also said "mainly military targets" (3.55mins). There is nuance to the whole debate which many don't have the capacity to understand.

Footage should have been shown of the Festival during the interview and the poor woman in the back of the truck whilst asking the interviewee to explain what was going on. He may not have seen that evidence.

Again though this is a completely pointless debate if people cannot see both sides and their grievances.
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Is it only one side of the debate that can't see both sides? I think I've been pretty clear in seeing both sides but the fact is Hamas have committed a massive atrocity. And is a starting point for the debate the fact that Hamas, Iran and maybe other nations want to wipe IsraeL of the face of the earth?
 
spudgun said:
"Military aged males", "supported by hand wringing liberals", "where do their loyalties lie", "and the order will go out".

Crikey! All dramatic, emotive, generic right-wing guff intended to scare the gullible.

All absolute bollux of course.

Some may conclude that you`re a bit of a snowflake for being fearful of visiting London.

Because of what exactly?
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Handy to use it as an excuse to avoid Pool matches in the Smoke 😀
 
Macseasider said:
It is really alarming that Israeli secret services did not have any intel that something was being planned.
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It’s hard to believe that they didn’t know.

Maybe this is the “Grand Plan” to take over Gaza and push the 2m Palestinians into refugee camps in Egypt ……
 
Any discussion around the settlements? The beaking of UN mandates? The cutting off of supplies, water, electricity? The masacre of innocents on both sides for many years? What do regular Israeli's want? What do regular Palestinian's want?

As you well know the war didn't start on Saturday.
 
Reading the history of Jerusalem, which is one of the oldest cities in the world, it’s been attacked 52 times, captured and recaptured 44 times, besieged 23 times and destroyed twice. It’s swung between Jews and Arabs in all that time, so fairness would be the two state system, but that needs a massive shift in western positions.
 
Seasider3610 said:
It’s hard to believe that they didn’t know.

Maybe this is the “Grand Plan” to take over Gaza and push the 2m Palestinians into refugee camps in Egypt ……
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From the Telegraph: Hamas avoided detection by 'going back to the Stone Age'

Israel lulled into believing it was containing dissent in Gaza through economic incentives despite warnings from intelligence agencies
Hamas fooled Israel over two years into believing it was too war weary to fight, going “stone age” to escape high-tech surveillance and training on a mock Israeli settlement as it plotted Saturday’s devastating attack.

In a major intelligence failure, Israel believed it was containing Hamas by giving economic incentives to workers in Gaza, despite fighters often conducting exercises in plain sight and reported warnings from other intelligence agencies.


Essentially, they thought Hamas had lost the will to fight, they were warned something was coming but never saw anything on this scale.
 
Matesrates said:
Ready the history of Jerusalem, which is one of the oldest cities in the world, it’s been attacked 52 times, captured and recaptured 44 times, besieged 23 times and destroyed twice. It’s swung between Jews and Arabs in all that time, so fairness would be the two state system, but that needs a massive shift in western positions.
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Haven't we just seen that would just be another way for Hamas to kill Israelis?
 
This thread is indicative of the same discussions, arguments and counter-arguments being held about this conflict in every country that allows freedom of thought the world over. No solution is going work until Israel takes the lead in holding out an olive branch in order to make the two state solution work. This will not happen whilst Netenyahu's Likud Party holds sway in a seven party coalition of the populist far-right.
 
There will be no peace while there is a single Israeli alive in Palestine.

There will be no peace while there is a single Palestinian alive in Palestine.
 
Lost Seasider said:
From the Telegraph: Hamas avoided detection by 'going back to the Stone Age'

Israel lulled into believing it was containing dissent in Gaza through economic incentives despite warnings from intelligence agencies
Hamas fooled Israel over two years into believing it was too war weary to fight, going “stone age” to escape high-tech surveillance and training on a mock Israeli settlement as it plotted Saturday’s devastating attack.

In a major intelligence failure, Israel believed it was containing Hamas by giving economic incentives to workers in Gaza, despite fighters often conducting exercises in plain sight and reported warnings from other intelligence agencies.


Essentially, they thought Hamas had lost the will to fight, they were warned something was coming but never saw anything on this scale.
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Netanyahu has the final say and has all the intelligence reports required to see what is going on.

Is it a “failing” of the best intelligence service in the world/Middle East or is it the “Grand Plan” ?
 
Seasider3610 said:
Netanyahu has the final say and has all the intelligence reports required to see what is going on.

Is it a “failing” of the best intelligence service in the world/Middle East or is it the “Grand Plan” ?
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Was 9/11 part of the "Grand Plan" as well?

How about Sandy Hook, Chemtrails, Covid-19, Vaccination, Malaysia-370, QAnon etc........................
 
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