£20 additional charge for a physical card..

I'm as forward looking with tech as the next man but I like having a card for me and my lad cos I can look after his. Do 5 year olds have to have smart phone do for that matter?
 
Dollar Thief said:
To suit what?

This season I've used both the card and my phone.
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It always takes a little bit of time for people to adjust and get into the swing of a new system.... It's been the same with every change...

charnleysball said:
This is crazy!

Understand the move to digital, but £20 charge for a card just has not been thought through. Young supporters are our future, surely the club does not expect a child’s £49.00 season ticket - under 12s / under 5s - the children will either be expected to have a smart phone for the digital ticket, or pay an extra 40% on the cost of the season ticket - come on, think again!
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Kids who are old enough to go on their own will have a phone... For those who aren't the ticket will be on the parents phone. Also miles easier for attracting new fans as you'll be able to get match tickets digitally, instead of postage or collection from ticket office and all the faff and extra cost that is involved.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If Liverpool FC is anything to go by, you notify the online system and they provide your mate with a digital ticket to use at the game… So no hassle of having to give them your card and get it back, risk losing it etc…

Much easier 👍
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Yeah coz Blackpool’s online ticketing system is flawless 🤔
I’m not against a digital ticket, but there shouldn’t be a financial penalty for not wanting one. Especially when I have a ST card I could just use again
 
The £20 extra will dissuade quite a few from getting the ST plastic card and go digital. Probably those intending to go to every match. But for the odd match that circumstances prevent them from attending they will not be able to pass a card onto a friend, they are not going to loan out their smartphone. THAT is the real reason for the £20 uplift for a card.

Strictly speaking, the T&Cs of buying a ST forbid loaning it out to another but the club seems to have decided, rightly, that it is impossible to police the ST cards unless you check the name on the ST card against photo-ID at every turnstile for every supporter. Which would cause chaos and enormous queues. Even if they found some illicit users, confiscation of the ST card for the rest of the season is fraught with problems, just extremely bad PR.

However, I have always thought these particular T&Cs to be terrible PR. What exactly is wrong with two friends or a family, who may be quite skint, clubbing together to share a ST? The number who would do that would be tiny... and yet it would generate good feeling in those who might otherwise be excluded.

In the long ago days of the paper ticket or cash on the turnstile this was never really an issue. Whoever had the ticket or the ST book / slip got in. The plastic card reader greatly simplified entry and worked very well... but did not stop transfers of STs. This new digital system might make such transfers harder, but the benefit in a small increased income (1 to 2% of the gate?) is hugely outweighed by the bad PR and nasty greediness.

The £20 surcharge seems to be on the basis that the ST card is going to be loaned out at least once a season so the club might as well get some incremental cash. It is just dreadfully cynical, imho. Just let people share STs !
 
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Qblock said:
Yeah coz Blackpool’s online ticketing system is flawless 🤔
I’m not against a digital ticket, but there shouldn’t be a financial penalty for not wanting one. Especially when I have a ST card I could just use again
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Why shouldn’t people pay for their personal choices / preferences?

If I go to a restaurant and order fillet steak, should I pay the same price as someone who orders chicken soup ?
 
Simple really.

If you’re renewing they can upgrade onto your existing card, no charge.

If you are a new season ticket holder it’s digital or you pay extra (£20 if they say so) to have a card.

If you’re an existing ST holder and want to move over to digital only, you get a £19.53 voucher to spend in the Club shop.

Increases sales, gives something to the digital crew to move them over and you look after you your existing ST holders who like having a card.

Everyone’s a winner.

Who’s behind these decisions at club?

We’re as creative as we are at free-kicks.
 
Archibald Knox said:
The £20 extra will dissuade quite a few from getting the ST plastic card and go digital. Probably those intending to go to every match. But for the odd match that circumstances prevent them from attending they will not be able to pass a card onto a friend, they are not going to loan out their smartphone. THAT is the real reason for the £20 uplift for a card.

Strictly speaking, the T&Cs of buying a ST forbid loaning it out to another but the club seems to have decided, rightly, that is impossible to police unless you check the name on the ST card against photo-ID at every turnstile for every fan.. Which would cause chaos and enormous queues. Even if they found some illicit users, confiscation of the ST card for the rest of the season is fraught with problems, just very bad PR.

However, I have always thought these T&Cs to be terrible PR. What exactly is wrong with two friends or a family, who may be quite skint, clubbing together to share a ST? The number who would do that would be tiny... and yet it would generate good feeling in those who mightt otherwise be excluded.
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Another complete misrepresentation of how the system works.

The digital system allows the very simple transfer of tickets and allows the owner to assign individual matches and send a digital ticket to their mates phone.

It actually makes it EASIER to let a mate have use of your ticket.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Why shouldn’t people pay for their personal choices / preferences?

If I go to a restaurant and order fillet steak, should I pay the same price as someone who orders chicken soup ?
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No because you’re paying for a completely different experience.
Strange reply tbh
 
Adams Kebab said:
Simple really.

If you’re renewing they can upgrade onto your existing card, no charge.

If you are a new season ticket holder it’s digital or you pay extra (£20 if they say so) to have a card.

If you’re an existing ST holder and want to move over to digital only, you get a £19.53 voucher to spend in the Club shop.

Increases sales, gives something to the digital crew to move them over and you look after you your existing ST holders who like having a card.

Everyone’s a winner.

Who’s behind these decisions at club?

We’re as creative as we are at free-kicks.
Click to expand...
This ⬆️.
Although I wouldn’t even penalise a new ST purchaser with the £20 fine. It’s not for the club to impose these things on people
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yes.. of course it’s a choice…

Older people often don’t like change and so they don’t embrace technology or modernisation. There’s no sudden mental impairment because you are old… No reason you can’t learn new things, which is proven by the millions of older people who cope just fine.

Obviously, dementia and genuine issues are a different matter.

The Club aren’t proposing to cut elderly people off though in any case and the old (although new at one time and subject to all the same ridiculous arguments) system is still in place.

They’re just offering a cheaper, modern and better system for those of us who want to use it.
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As I have already suggested, speak to Age UK or ask your GP when you next see then. There are many older people who embrace technology and keep mentally agile. However, at some point we all start to struggle. That’s not a choice, it’s the result of the ageing process.

You lack the mental capacity to understand the basics of human life and the changes we go through.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Simple really.

If you’re renewing they can upgrade onto your existing card, no charge.

If you are a new season ticket holder it’s digital or you pay extra (£20 if they say so) to have a card.

If you’re an existing ST holder and want to move over to digital only, you get a £19.53 voucher to spend in the Club shop.

Increases sales, gives something to the digital crew to move them over and you look after you your existing ST holders who like having a card.

Everyone’s a winner.

Who’s behind these decisions at club?

We’re as creative as we are at free-kicks.
Click to expand...
Not simple at all…

1. The financial incentive will encourage more people to make the change, which is what the Club wants to happen…

2. It’s not the card that costs the money… It’s maintaining an old system that doesn’t offer the same advantages.

The only ‘winners’ in that case would be the technophobes and we seem to have far too many.

Maybe we could just implant a microchip chip in anyone who can’t use a phone.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
As I have already suggested, speak to Age UK or ask your GP when you next see then. There are many older people who embrace technology and keep mentally agile. However, at some point we all start to struggle. That’s not a choice, it’s the result of the ageing process.

You lack the mental capacity to understand the basics of human life and the changes we go through.
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Why do I need to ask a GP?

As I said, I heard the same old shyte when we were introducing card readers on the turnstiles. Now they’re just accepted as basic simple technology that even old people can use.

I understand that getting old can be an issue and that you can’t do what you once could, but that doesn’t mean the world can’t move on for the rest of us.

The Club are making the older systems available… So what’s the problem?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Another complete misrepresentation of how the system works.

The digital system allows the very simple transfer of tickets and allows the owner to assign individual matches and send a digital ticket to their mates phone.

It actually makes it EASIER to let a mate have use of your ticket.
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So the club has completely changed the Terms & Conditions, covering the non-transferability clause, for the use of issued STs has it? Show me the small print.
 
Archibald Knox said:
So the club has completely changed the Terms & Conditions, covering the non-transferability clause, for the use of issued STs has it? Show me the small print.
Click to expand...
With the new system any transfer of tickets would be authorised by the Club. The details of the person receiving the ticket transfer would be input into the online system….

The system is already in use at other Clubs …
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Why do I need to ask a GP?

As I said, I heard the same old shyte when we were introducing card readers on the turnstiles. Now they’re just accepted as basic simple technology that even old people can use.

I understand that getting old can be an issue and that you can’t do what you once could, but that doesn’t mean the world can’t move on for the rest of us.

The Club are making the older systems available… So what’s the problem?
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To understand the challenges facing the elderly and those with mental health disabilities.

The problem is, that for the majority of fans there is a choice. If they can use a smartphone but prefer a card, then they accept the £20 charge.

However, as has been pointed out by others, we already have cards that can be updated.

Last season I forgot to bring my phone, but I did have my card. It took my son the same amount of time to scan his phone as it did for me to slot my card in the machine.

The key point about choice is that we have fans that are not able to use a smartphone. That may not just be the elderly, but also some people with a mental health disability. These fans have no choice and they will be forced to pay £20.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
To understand the challenges facing the elderly and those with mental health disabilities.

The problem is, that for the majority of fans there is a choice. If they can use a smartphone but prefer a card, then they accept the £20 charge.

However, we have fans that are not able to use a smartphone. That may not just be the elderly, but also some people with a mental health disability. These fans have no choice and they will be forced to pay £20.
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I understand them…I just think you’re overplaying the issue and pretty much writing off old people as stupid.

Everyone has a choice though!!

They can choose to buy a ticket or choose not to.

I used a restaurant as an example before, so let’s stick to the same theme.

If I walked into a all you can eat for a fiver buffet-restaurant and said … “I’m really sorry, but I have an allergy that prevents me from eating anything apart from Lobster Thermidor”…

Should the restaurant accommodate my needs on me and charge me a fiver for my Lobster or would it be reasonable for them to charge me the associated cost to meet my specific requirements?
 
Dollar Thief said:
How is it rubbish, some people using their season ticket on their phone will be the slow ones who used to takes ages opening up their season ticket and looking for the right paper ticket to hand over in the old days.
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To be fair u would have people stood at the turnstile getting there wallet out to get the card out so not much difference
 
Just remove the £20 charge, make a physical card available free of charge on request - pay for it by restricting senior prices to recipients of pension credit. 👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Why shouldn’t people pay for their personal choices / preferences?

If I go to a restaurant and order fillet steak, should I pay the same price as someone who orders chicken soup ?
Click to expand...

I'd say you'd be one of the first to call out a sh1t analogy.

That is a sh1t analogy.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The 'elderly supporters' already get a discount.... Despite the fact that they likely have far more disposable income than younger supporters with families etc.. And someone with Dementia is going to struggle to attend a Football Match without a carer, regardless of whether the tickets are a plastic card, a digital smartphone ticket or an old fashioned paper booklet.

There's nothing 'Morally Wrong' about providing fans with a Digital Option and passing on the benefit of that more efficient system to those who use it. It shouldn't be up to me (or anyone else) to fund other people, who (for whatever reason) are unable to cope with more modern technology.

Nobody is 'targeting vulnerable fans' and it's bloody ridiculous and completely OTT to frame this in that kind of way.
Click to expand...
What a crass post😡😡
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I understand them…I just think you’re overplaying the issue and pretty much writing off old people as stupid.

Everyone has a choice though!!

They can choose to buy a ticket or choose not to.

I used a restaurant as an example before, so let’s stick to the same theme.

If I walked into a all you can eat for a fiver buffet-restaurant and said … “I’m really sorry, but I have an allergy that prevents me from eating anything apart from Lobster Thermidor”…

Should the restaurant accommodate my needs on me and charge me a fiver for my Lobster or would it be reasonable for them to charge me the associated cost to meet my specific requirements?
Click to expand...
You’re a clown and lack the ability to knit your various and conflicting arguments together. If you’re struggling now, you will be challenged in your old age.

Despite a prompt from @20togo you’ve still not answered questions about your conflicting posts on the disposable income of people in the Blackpool area.

You have your view on the challenges of old age, that’s fine, but try to educate yourself on the matter and see if your views remain the same. I suspect you won’t want to bother with the facts.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
With the new system any transfer of tickets would be authorised by the Club. The details of the person receiving the ticket transfer would be input into the online system….

The system is already in use at other Clubs …
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WOULD BE... WOULD BE... IN USE AT OTHER CLUBS... etc.
So, it’s not actually in place yet at BFC then ? And there is no announcement it is imminent?

So what you say is not wholly true, it might be at some future time, but as of now you are misleading people.

There is no news article on ticket transfer in the online system that I can find yet. It used to be the case that you could return tickets to the ticket office and they would sell them for you and remit cash to your account (after any fees) BUT ONLY if the match was a sell-out - they would prioritise sales of unsold seats first. I am not aware that policy has changed yet.

You ought to read the webpage on Terms & Conditions explicitly linked in the new ST announcement...


Specifically, refer to the initial paragraph which states...

“A Season Ticket is personal to the holder, is not transferable and shall not be transferred or resold under any circumstances, save where expressly permitted by the Club in its absolute discretion.”

Then section 3.1
“... The Season Ticket is not refundable or transferable (and no rights arising out of or in connection with it are transferable or refundable) to any other person.”

Then section 7.1
“Season Tickets are issued for the Holder’s sole use, and you shall not sell, dispose of, assign, transfer, lend or otherwise deal with the Season Ticket or benefit of the same to any other person without the prior written consent of the Club. If the ticket is resold or transferred without the prior written consent of the Club, it will become void, and the Holder will be refused entry to or ejected from the Grounds for that Match and any subsequent Matches. A transfer may be authorised by the Club in the Club's absolute discretion and providing that such sale or transfer is in respect of an individual Match and in consideration of no payment or benefit in excess of the face value of a match ticket. The Club may charge administrative fees with respect to any such transfer or sale. Such resell or transfer will be subject to these Terms and Conditions.”

So, transfer only with the prior WRITTEN consent of the club. Good luck on getting that on matchday morning. Even if they build that consent into a digital transfer system, they do not mention any actual possibility of that in all their 11 PAGES of T&Cs.

In fact, later on it all gets even more aggressive in terms of non-transferability...

“7.5. The unauthorised sale or disposal of a Season Ticket may amount to a criminal offence under section 166 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, as amended by the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, the Ticket Touting (Designation of Football Matches) Order 2007 and may also be a further criminal offence under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. The Club will inform the police, the English Football League, other English Football League clubs and the relevant local authorities when it becomes aware that a Season Ticket has been sold illegally and will press for charges to be brought against those breaking this law. The information that we share may include your personal data, information about the offence and about ticket purchases (including payment details) to identify and prevent ticket touting offences and disorder at Matches.”

“7.7 Any Season Ticket obtained or used in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Entry shall be automatically void and all rights conferred or evidenced by such Season Ticket shall be nullified. Any person seeking to use a Season Ticket in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Entry in order to gain entry to the Ground or remain at a Match may be considered to be a trespasser and may be refused entry to, or ejected from, the Ground in respect of a particular Match and/or may have their Season Ticket cancelled or withdrawn. In the event of any cancellation and withdrawal in accordance with this paragraph 7.8, no refund shall be payable. The Club further reserves its right to take any legal or disciplinary action against any person(s) as it sees fit in connection with such matters, including a claim for an account of any profits made from an unauthorised use of a Season Ticket.”

OK, I accept the latter two clauses appear to be aimed at touts and profiteering, but nowhere in the T&Cs do they refer to easy transfer of a digital ticket for a single match to a mate.

And woe betide you, if you happen to be a Senior ST holder and you want to transfer your ST digiticket to a mate under 65 yo...

“8.2 Any supporter entering the Ground on an ineligible Season Ticket will have the Season Ticket withdrawn and no refund will be given on Matches remaining in the season. The Club reserve the right, in such cases, to pursue a criminal prosecution.”

“12.5 Any deliberate misuse of a Season Ticket, including any attempt of any nature which, in the Club’s reasonable opinion, constitutes an attempt to defraud the Club, will result in the Holder being ejected from the Ground in respect of the Match at which the same occurs and no refund will be payable to the Holder in respect of any unexpired portion of the same. The Club further reserves its right to take legal action against any appropriate persons as it sees fit in connection with such matters.”

OK, rant over, it’s a particular annoyance to me that tickets are not transferable. OK, I understand preventing adults from using childrens’ cheap tickets but peer-to-peer transfers should be allowed.

So, if you can find the equivalent small print that states how easy it will be to transfer the digital-ticket to a mate on matchday morning, then please enlighten me. I would be most grateful because I intend to do that on a good half-dozen of the season’s games. Thank you in advance.
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Why?
Click to expand...

If we are on about the fillet steak/chicken soup analogy then I'm not going to bother wasting my time explaining.

I was in the middle of reading your idea about microchipping those without a smart phone when I got your message.

Are you backing this idea ?

If so, where do I apply ?
 
Halifax71 said:
Just remove the £20 charge, make a physical card available free of charge on request - pay for it by restricting senior prices to recipients of pension credit. 👍
Click to expand...

As a sprightly young non smart phone user that will do me just fine.

I don't know how the feck you will get that past x3 Halifax but good to see you still bashing old folk when you get a chance :)
 
bleach51 said:
What a crass post😡😡
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Thanks 👍

TimperleyTangerine said:
You’re a clown and lack the ability to knit your various and conflicting arguments together. If you’re struggling now, you will be challenged in your old age.

Despite a prompt from @20togo you’ve still not answered questions about your conflicting posts on the disposable income of people in the Blackpool area.

You have your view on the challenges of old age, that’s fine, but try to educate yourself on the matter and see if your views remain the same. I suspect you won’t want to bother with the facts.
Click to expand...
I have 20’s on ignore, so I only see his posts when I view ignored posts, so I haven’t seen his post.

You can describe me as a clown if you wish, I think that pulling up the ‘Ill health’ card is a poor argument, because it attempt to shut down alternative opinion by grabbing the supposed moral high ground.

As I have already said on here… The elderly and disabled already benefit from substantial discounts and the Club goes a long way to trying to accommodate any special needs. They also have a responsibility to try and make Football affordable for the majority of the fanbase too.

You seem to be insistent in your attempts to try and squeeze some kind of sympathy vote out of me.. I’m perfectly well aware of the challenges faced by all kinds of different human beings (old and young)…. As I’ve said… It’s not the kind of argument that I find persuasive or useful. That doesn’t make me unable to be understanding or empathetic, I’m just not inclined to be emotionally blackmailed and nor should the Club.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yes they can.... And the Club can also pass the financial benefit of the digital system onto those who are able to use it....


You really need me to explain?

If the club has 500 Supporters and needs to make £500,000 revenue then that means each supporter needs to pay £1,000 per season...

If half of those are 'OAPS' and only pay £500 each, then that means the other half will need to pay £1,500 each to make up the deficit.

It's pretty basic economics and stuff that even the over 65's can understand I'd have thought.


Are you a Parrot?




Jesus Christ... Can you actually read?
Click to expand...
Do you really need me to explain...
You personally are NOT subsidising the oaps as you claim!
The club is!
God your thick!
 
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Archibald Knox said:
That’s rubbish, you are misleading people. You ought to read the webpage on Terms & Conditions explicitly linked in the new ST announcement...


Specifically, refer to the initial paragraph which states...

“A Season Ticket is personal to the holder, is not transferable and shall not be transferred or resold under any circumstances, save where expressly permitted by the Club in its absolute discretion.”

Then section 3.1
“... The Season Ticket is not refundable or transferable (and no rights arising out of or in connection with it are transferable or refundable) to any other person.”

Then section 7.1
“Season Tickets are issued for the Holder’s sole use, and you shall not sell, dispose of, assign, transfer, lend or otherwise deal with the Season Ticket or benefit of the same to any other person without the prior written consent of the Club. If the ticket is resold or transferred without the prior written consent of the Club, it will become void, and the Holder will be refused entry to or ejected from the Grounds for that Match and any subsequent Matches. A transfer may be authorised by the Club in the Club's absolute discretion and providing that such sale or transfer is in respect of an individual Match and in consideration of no payment or benefit in excess of the face value of a match ticket. The Club may charge administrative fees with respect to any such transfer or sale. Such resell or transfer will be subject to these Terms and Conditions.”

So, transfer only with the prior WRITTEN consent of the club. Good luck on getting that on matchday morning. Even if they build that consent into a digital transfer system, they do not mention any actual possibility of that in all their 11pages of T&Cs.

In fact, later on it all gets even more aggressive in terms of non-transferability...

“7.5. The unauthorised sale or disposal of a Season Ticket may amount to a criminal offence under section 166 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, as amended by the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, the Ticket Touting (Designation of Football Matches) Order 2007 and may also be a further criminal offence under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. The Club will inform the police, the English Football League, other English Football League clubs and the relevant local authorities when it becomes aware that a Season Ticket has been sold illegally and will press for charges to be brought against those breaking this law. The information that we share may include your personal data, information about the offence and about ticket purchases (including payment details) to identify and prevent ticket touting offences and disorder at Matches.”

“7.7 Any Season Ticket obtained or used in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Entry shall be automatically void and all rights conferred or evidenced by such Season Ticket shall be nullified. Any person seeking to use a Season Ticket in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Entry in order to gain entry to the Ground or remain at a Match may be considered to be a trespasser and may be refused entry to, or ejected from, the Ground in respect of a particular Match and/or may have their Season Ticket cancelled or withdrawn. In the event of any cancellation and withdrawal in accordance with this paragraph 7.8, no refund shall be payable. The Club further reserves its right to take any legal or disciplinary action against any person(s) as it sees fit in connection with such matters, including a claim for an account of any profits made from an unauthorised use of a Season Ticket.”

OK, I accept the latter two clauses appear to be aimed at touts and profiteering, but nowhere in the T&Cs do they refer to easy transfer of a digital ticket for a single match to a mate.

And woe betide you, if you happen to be a Senior ST holder and you want to transfer your ST digiticket to a mate under 65 yo...

“8.2 Any supporter entering the Ground on an ineligible Season Ticket will have the Season Ticket withdrawn and no refund will be given on Matches remaining in the season. The Club reserve the right, in such cases, to pursue a criminal prosecution.”

“12.5 Any deliberate misuse of a Season Ticket, including any attempt of any nature which, in the Club’s reasonable opinion, constitutes an attempt to defraud the Club, will result in the Holder being ejected from the Ground in respect of the Match at which the same occurs and no refund will be payable to the Holder in respect of any unexpired portion of the same. The Club further reserves its right to take legal action against any appropriate persons as it sees fit in connection with such matters.”

So, if you can find the equivalent small print that states how easy it will be to transfer the digital-ticket to a mate on matchday morning, then please enlighten me. I would be most grateful because I intend to do that on about half the season’s games. Than you in advance.
Click to expand...
The written consent of the Club would be covered off by an agreement to transfer and issuing of a ticket to the proposed transferee.

As I said, this is ‘exactly’ what happens at other club’s who use the same system.

Of course, it’s perfectly possible BFC might seek to impose a charge or refuse to transfer. That’s a commercial matter that the Club needs to consider carefully.
 
Everybody has completely missed the issue here. As far as I'm aware, and I was told this a couple of seasons ago, the simple fact is that the technology has advanced. They are putting in new readers that will read the NFC tag into off a phone and not the older, less secure, more cloneable, more expensive RFID tags on the old cards.
They put in interim readers a couple of years ago that could cope with both, but the new systems are far more secure and reliable.

I'm not saying I agree with the cost model, but the reasons for doing it are down to technology upgrades, nothing more sinister than that.
 
Archibald Knox said:
That’s rubbish, you are misleading people. You ought to read the webpage on Terms & Conditions explicitly linked in the new ST announcement...


Specifically, refer to the initial paragraph which states...

“A Season Ticket is personal to the holder, is not transferable and shall not be transferred or resold under any circumstances, save where expressly permitted by the Club in its absolute discretion.”

Then section 3.1
“... The Season Ticket is not refundable or transferable (and no rights arising out of or in connection with it are transferable or refundable) to any other person.”

Then section 7.1
“Season Tickets are issued for the Holder’s sole use, and you shall not sell, dispose of, assign, transfer, lend or otherwise deal with the Season Ticket or benefit of the same to any other person without the prior written consent of the Club. If the ticket is resold or transferred without the prior written consent of the Club, it will become void, and the Holder will be refused entry to or ejected from the Grounds for that Match and any subsequent Matches. A transfer may be authorised by the Club in the Club's absolute discretion and providing that such sale or transfer is in respect of an individual Match and in consideration of no payment or benefit in excess of the face value of a match ticket. The Club may charge administrative fees with respect to any such transfer or sale. Such resell or transfer will be subject to these Terms and Conditions.”

So, transfer only with the prior WRITTEN consent of the club. Good luck on getting that on matchday morning. Even if they build that consent into a digital transfer system, they do not mention any actual possibility of that in all their 11pages of T&Cs.

In fact, later on it all gets even more aggressive in terms of non-transferability...

“7.5. The unauthorised sale or disposal of a Season Ticket may amount to a criminal offence under section 166 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, as amended by the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, the Ticket Touting (Designation of Football Matches) Order 2007 and may also be a further criminal offence under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. The Club will inform the police, the English Football League, other English Football League clubs and the relevant local authorities when it becomes aware that a Season Ticket has been sold illegally and will press for charges to be brought against those breaking this law. The information that we share may include your personal data, information about the offence and about ticket purchases (including payment details) to identify and prevent ticket touting offences and disorder at Matches.”

“7.7 Any Season Ticket obtained or used in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Entry shall be automatically void and all rights conferred or evidenced by such Season Ticket shall be nullified. Any person seeking to use a Season Ticket in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Entry in order to gain entry to the Ground or remain at a Match may be considered to be a trespasser and may be refused entry to, or ejected from, the Ground in respect of a particular Match and/or may have their Season Ticket cancelled or withdrawn. In the event of any cancellation and withdrawal in accordance with this paragraph 7.8, no refund shall be payable. The Club further reserves its right to take any legal or disciplinary action against any person(s) as it sees fit in connection with such matters, including a claim for an account of any profits made from an unauthorised use of a Season Ticket.”

OK, I accept the latter two clauses appear to be aimed at touts and profiteering, but nowhere in the T&Cs do they refer to easy transfer of a digital ticket for a single match to a mate.

And woe betide you, if you happen to be a Senior ST holder and you want to transfer your ST digiticket to a mate under 65 yo...

“8.2 Any supporter entering the Ground on an ineligible Season Ticket will have the Season Ticket withdrawn and no refund will be given on Matches remaining in the season. The Club reserve the right, in such cases, to pursue a criminal prosecution.”

“12.5 Any deliberate misuse of a Season Ticket, including any attempt of any nature which, in the Club’s reasonable opinion, constitutes an attempt to defraud the Club, will result in the Holder being ejected from the Ground in respect of the Match at which the same occurs and no refund will be payable to the Holder in respect of any unexpired portion of the same. The Club further reserves its right to take legal action against any appropriate persons as it sees fit in connection with such matters.”
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Archie

I was not going to get involved in any season ticket squabbling on here until I heard about this £20 non digital charge but until I read what you said I hadn't even thought about the transfer of cards.

In ye olde days when I had a season ticket, I'd never miss a game but the last few times I've had one I've given my ticket away for plenty of games - to be honest it's harder than you think to get rid of it.

I can't say it will make any big difference to me but as you say, knowing that it can't be transferred will definitely put some folk of getting a season ticket.


*** AVFTT caveat - I am not saying the club should or shouldn't allow season tickets to be transferred, I am just stating IN ISOLATION that it will put some people of buying a season ticket ***
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
If we are on about the fillet steak/chicken soup analogy then I'm not going to bother wasting my time explaining.

I was in the middle of reading your idea about microchipping those without a smart phone when I got your message.

Are you backing this idea ?

If so, where do I apply ?
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Why not?

Please explain… You took the time to criticise the analogy, so surely it’s the least you can do!!

And yes, I think we should microchip the elderly and infirm in their left buttocks and charge them £50 each for the privilege…
 
Tangerine Tractor said:
Everybody has completely missed the issue here. As far as I'm aware, and I was told this a couple of seasons ago, the simple fact is that the technology has advanced. They are putting in new readers that will read the NFC tag into off a phone and not the older, less secure, more cloneable, more expensive RFID tags on the old cards.
They put in interim readers a couple of years ago that could cope with both, but the new systems are far more secure and reliable.

I'm not saying I agree with the cost model, but the reasons for doing it are down to technology upgrades, nothing more sinister than that.
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Tractor

Nobody has missed the issue here.

Everybody is aware that the change is down to a technological advance, the discussion/debate is around the charge imposed by the club on those unwilling/unable to make the change.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The written consent of the Club would be covered off by an agreement to transfer and issuing of a ticket to the proposed transferee.

As I said, this is ‘exactly’ what happens at other club’s who use the same system.

Of course, it’s perfectly possible BFC might seek to impose a charge or refuse to transfer. That’s a commercial matter that the Club needs to consider carefully.
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So, you have misrepresented the BFC position in all your posts...

“Of course, it’s perfectly possible BFC might seek to impose a charge or refuse to transfer.”

That happens to be the current situation as I understand it and there has been no indication from the club it is about to change. So it’s all supposition from you, unless you are totally ITK then ?

And I would guess that the “other clubs” who use this system tend to be those which have waiting lists for STs and which frequently sell out their home games? That is, for clarity, almost certainly Premier League clubs. Not so relevant to BFC then?
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Why not?

Please explain… You took the time to criticise the analogy, so surely it’s the least you can do!!

And yes, I think we should microchip the elderly and infirm in their left buttocks and charge them £50 each for the privilege…
Click to expand...

I'll go in to your sh1t anology in a second but I'll discuss your microchipping idea first.

Microchipping - So I see you are not backing your idea and that you are actually imposing the charge on the supporters themselves. You only mentioning microchipping the elderly though, will your great initiative also be available to younger supporters and at the same bargain price of £50 ?

Sh1t anology - I shouldn't waste my time but here goes. BFC - the football club not your good self - have decided to impose a charge of £20 on supporters unwilling/unable to transfer the method of using their season ticket card. Your analogy said something along the lines of should a chap having a fillet steak in a restaurant be charged the same as a chap who only had chicken soup. I would suggest that a far better analogy would be to question whether a chap having a fillet steak in a restaurant and paying using cash be charged any more than another chap going in to the same restaurant for an identical fillet steak but paying by Debit/Credit card.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
And yes, I think we should microchip the elderly and infirm in their left buttocks and charge them £50 each for the privilege…
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That’s what Braverman, Rees-Mogg, Francois, Barclay and their ultra-RW pals would approve of. It’s better than an Identity Card being wholly non-transferable unless you want a gaping, bleeding wound in your arse which means you can’t sit down for a month.

If ID cards ever came in, I would have the bar-code tattooed across my forehead in protest.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Unable. The unwilling can go hang.
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Good evening 66, that's very interesting.

Before I make an appointment to meet you at the gallows, please can you advise me on which category (unwilling or unable) that I fall into.

You may wish to consider that I am not old, well I am but not pension age, I am certainly capable of using a smartphone but I have no desire to acquire one.
 
The club is unlikely to easily agree to transfer of the ST digital ticket for a single match, because the reduced price per match is regarded as a loyalty bonus for the supporter who will attend every match.

If taken to the extreme, it could result in one ST being used by 23 people each getting in for £15 each, instead of £26.
I accept that logic is reductio ad absurdum but it will feature in their policy thinking.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Good evening 66, that's very interesting.

Before I make an appointment to meet you at the gallows, please can you advise me on which category (unwilling or unable) that I fall into.

You may wish to consider that I am not old, well I am but not pension age, I am certainly capable of using a smartphone but I have no desire to acquire one.
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2020, I condemn you as I would condemn a rabid dog. OK, back on planet Earth. I understand your point and would rather persist with a card myself. But, it's not going to happen so, as a minimum, I would like to see the incapacitated cared for.
 
Archibald Knox said:
So, you have misrepresented the BFC position in all your posts...

“Of course, it’s perfectly possible BFC might seek to impose a charge or refuse to transfer.”

That happens to be the current situation as I understand it and there has been no indication from the club it is about to change. So it’s all supposition from you, unless you are totally ITK then ?
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As I have said, the system is in operation elsewhere and the transfer of tickets is simplified, whilst being under the control of the Club.

The issuing of individual digital tickets (for example) to Individuals who are registered as friends and family. So no need to swap around the plastic card and associated messing around.

I don’t see any practical benefit to restricting people from ‘sharing’ a Season Ticket (exiles for example) as it would likely reduce sales.

Of course, there’s good reason for wanting to control access and prevent tickets from simply being issued to anyone… (Hoteliers providing tickets to guests who are fans from opposing clubs for example).

As someone else mentioned, it’s quite typical for everyone to focus on the negatives and draw assumptions about the practicalities and reasoning for the systems changes, however as he said, these changes are driven by advances in technology and do not need to be viewed with cynicism!
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If Liverpool FC is anything to go by, you notify the online system and they provide your mate with a digital ticket to use at the game… So no hassle of having to give them your card and get it back, risk losing it etc…

Much easier 👍
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You have to have an LFC fans membership to benefit from this ..
 
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