Abu Dhabi GP

SeasideTerrier said:
Formula 1 officials are pleased to confirm their alliance with the EFL.
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clappers said:
I think that’s why Hamilton was so magnanimous at the end, but the safety car situation was utter farce.
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I was a Scalectrix (new thread needed on that!) But to lose a race on 'not-pitting' is bollocks because Hamilton would have lost track position. Verstappen had no track position to lose.... The 'lapped' drivers are all thinking its more than 2 bollocks.
Goforgoal said:
It might not seem very fair, and it might not be. However the alternative after an accident would be to stop the race and restart after the track has been cleared. In which case the cars would be all together anyway. It’s a six and two threes if afraid.
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Erm, tyre swaps? and pitting?
 
20togo said:
nothing like levelled up at all. One at the start of a race one at the end.
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Yeah so 1-1 is equal? Unless I've mis-understood. He gained over a 1second advantage, irrespective whether it was Max or Lewis's fault. Which meant he was out of DRS range by lap 3. Huge huge advantage for Lewis.
Lytham_fy8 said:
So they let Verstappen get it to position, completely against the norm and rules, then immediately pulled the safety car, they literally just handed it to him.
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Come on, you know full well that is the norm. You're an F1 fan. That happens 99.99 % of the time. Don't sound like a casual because you aren't. That is literally what happens every single time.

They wanted to get racing and they should have got the cars through far earlier.
 
seaside7 said:
Absolutely disgraceful. That's me done with F1. I could've understood it if Lewis and Max had been going head to head but the race was as good as finished before the safety car. In fairness it would be hard to argue that Verstappen/Red Bull don't deserve it over the course of the season (as unlikeable as they both are) but that was just a fix - F1 just sacrificed any sporting decency or sense of justice to provide a "spectacle" for 30 seconds.
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Bullshit. You'll be watching next year. Load of bollocks.
 
SeasideTerrier said:
I was a Scalectrix (new thread needed on that!) But to lose a race on 'not-pitting' is bollocks because Hamilton would have lost track position. Verstappen had no track position to lose.... The 'lapped' drivers are all thinking its more than 2 bollocks.

Erm, tyre swaps? and pitting?
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All together at the re-start.😳
 
There is part of me that feels like some of this post race dramarama is staged for maximum publicity by Liberty Media.
 
Red Bull on the way to see stewards. Verstappen to be disqualified/place penalty for breaking rules?;) Getting n front of Hamilton whilst safery car still on track?
 
Regarding the safety car, I've always thought it's completely unfair - a driver could have driven the race of his life and built up a big lead by being the best on the track, and then a mistake by another driver can mean you don't win. It is a bit ridiculous if you think about it, I'm not sure anything similar happens in any other sport, but then other sports aren't as dangerous of course. All that said, that's what's always happened with safety cars so I think you just have to say really hard luck for Hamilton. I'm disappointed for him but he has had slices of good fortune many times in the past.
That's not to say what happened on the restart was correct, just that it was terrible luck that another driver made a mistake and gave Verstappen the opportunity.

Also, regarding the restart, the alarm bells started ringing for me a couple of weeks ago when the race director was negotiating with one of the teams. It's just wrong. There should be a clear rule and a clear punishment, there should be no chatting with the team to find out what kind of action they'd prefer. To me it showed that the rules either aren't clear enough, or the people that make these decisions have no backbone - or both. If they did take the action on that last lap just to get a racing finish and didn't follow the process, then the warning signs were there and we shouldn't really be surprised even if it is wrong.
 
The race director has been spineless and allowed team leaders to barrack him - not to mention making decisions which have left grey areas for overtaking/ pushing cars off etc. He’s been like a weak football referee who w entails lost control.
 
They should have shown a red flag so all teams can change their tyres. It does not sit right with me that Verstappen was able to change his tyres because of his track position without affecting that position but Hamilton was not able to. If he had gone in then Verstappen would have been ahead. Verstappen got a benefit of both the new tryres and the fact that the distance between him and Hamilton was reduced to zero on the last lap. And when he passed Hamilton he then weaved repeatedly across the track, which you are not allowed to do.
 
the bunch up behind the safety car is normal what i couldn't get my head round was the fact that there were three cars between Lewis and Max when safety car was deployed, surely they should still be between them at the restart as Lewis had overtaken them but Max hadn't ,to remove them gave Max a clear run at Lewis,any suggestions as to why?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
This is dragging on, they might actually be over turning this
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Highly damaging to the product of F1 if they do. The stewarding has been a shitshow all season. As someone else has posted, the influence that Mercedes and RedBull in having direct comms with Stewards is laughable. There should only be comms in relation to safety and nothing else.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Yeah so 1-1 is equal? Unless I've mis-understood. He gained over a 1second advantage, irrespective whether it was Max or Lewis's fault. Which meant he was out of DRS range by lap 3. Huge huge advantage for Lewis.

Come on, you know full well that is the norm. You're an F1 fan. That happens 99.99 % of the time. Don't sound like a casual because you aren't. That is literally what happens every single time.

They wanted to get racing and they should have got the cars through far earlier.
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The restart and bunching was fine, it was the 'half the field can overtake' which is the problem.
 
Macseasider said:
Highly damaging to the product of F1 if they do. The stewarding has been a shitshow all season. As someone else has posted, the influence that Mercedes and RedBull in having direct comms with Stewards is laughable. There should only be comms in relation to safety and nothing else.
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Agree, it should stand, it's done.
 
the specialone said:
the bunch up behind the safety car is normal what i couldn't get my head round was the fact that there were three cars between Lewis and Max when safety car was deployed, surely they should still be between them at the restart as Lewis had overtaken them but Max hadn't ,to remove them gave Max a clear run at Lewis,any suggestions as to why?
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Exactly, totally unfair imo.
 
BBC reporting Red Bull and Horner have left the stewards office fuming. Could be just poker faces but it feels this may rumble on a while longer! All of this should have been avoided by applying the rules correctly, allow all, or none of the lapped cars to overtake the safety car.
 
20togo said:
Red Bull on the way to see stewards. Verstappen to be disqualified/place penalty for breaking rules?;) Getting n front of Hamilton whilst safery car still on track?
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I thought he looked close at the time but to be fair that does happen a lot, five second penalty? Would give the title to Lewis but would be a shambles.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
It’s going to be a very brave decision if this is overturned.

Red Bull will appeal no doubt and rightly so.
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Indeed it is and probably why they won't. But Mercedes rightly feel the rules haven't been followed and of course Red Bull are happy. This isn't the fault of the two teams, this is the fault of the stewards, the race director and ultimately the FIA.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Yeah so 1-1 is equal? Unless I've mis-understood. He gained over a 1second advantage, irrespective whether it was Max or Lewis's fault. Which meant he was out of DRS range by lap 3. Huge huge advantage for Lewis.

Come on, you know full well that is the norm. You're an F1 fan. That happens 99.99 % of the time. Don't sound like a casual because you aren't. That is literally what happens every single time.

They wanted to get racing and they should have got the cars through far earlier.
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Kurt convince me how an 11 second lead can turn out with both cars starting level with one lap to go?

How is that fair and square 😩
 
20togo said:
Indeed it is and probably why they won't. But Mercedes rightly feel the rules haven't been followed and of course Red Bull are happy. This isn't the fault of the two teams, this is the fault of the stewards, the race director and ultimately the FIA.
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Yep, it's like Masi didn't realise Max was on fresh tyres and it was going to be a turkey shoot.

If I was putting money on this it would be on it getting overturned, unsuccessful appeals don't drag on this long. Hope not though.
 
As much as I feel Mercedes are right and justified in appealing, to turn it over now would be damaging all round to the sport. Just reading the comments online from people who tuned in to that race shows people enjoyed it but don’t have a clue why there’s any controversy.
They need to look at firing off Masi, changing the rules next season regarding safety cars and pitting, and never ever letting Ginger Spice near a microphone after a race again, all of which will improve F1.
 
the race director fucked up and it cost Hamilton the race. I reckon Red Bull know that. So the solution is for the FIA to offer Verstappen a share of the title. Failure to accept it means result of race over-turned.
 
20togo said:
the race director fucked up and it cost Hamilton the race. I reckon Red Bull know that. So the solution is for the FIA to offer Verstappen a share of the title. Failure to accept it means result of race over-turned.
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I can't see that happening, maybe we go for a Fast & Furious style drag race on the little electric scooters they buzz around on. 🤣
 
I've watched most races this year.

It's a technical sport; one where you can be disqualified from qualifying because your wing is 0.1mm too wide or you've not got enough fuel to test at the end of a race so you lose your points.

Under safety car conditions Max overtook Lewis, twice.

Massi last week messed up so badly the FiA had to step in; twice.

Today, looked corrupt.

The decision to allow only 5 lapped cars to over take and not 8 effectively stopped those 3 racing as well as obviously putting LH at an impossible disadvantage.

Throw in the fact that the safety car didn't do another lap and they've not followed their own regulations. Twice.

If they give Max a 5 second penalty, it's on him.

If they accept that the last lap shouldn't have taken place, they will have to lose that last lap, it's on them.

I can't see the FiA doing either, but they should.

LH should be 8 time World Champion.

Massi shouldn't be anywhere near a race track again.
 
straightatthewall said:
I didn’t watch any of it and all this palaver suggests I’m right not too. F1 desperate for a new champion/marketplace to promote the brand.
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Possibly but Hamilton is already box office for them, this kind of stuff has always happened one way or the other even when the stakes were this high, I was always annoyed that Williams didn't appeal Schumacher driving in to Damon in 94. It's still amazing that Senna got away with taking Prost out in 90 and even that was due to political manoeuvres, swapping his pole position so he was on the dirty side of the track.

It's always been technically contentious and it's always been ethically dodgy and people have always complained that it's not as good as it used to be or that politics is ruining it, but it still fascinates me because mortal human beings can't do what these drivers do, most racing drivers can't do what F1 drivers do.
 
20togo said:
Indeed it is and probably why they won't. But Mercedes rightly feel the rules haven't been followed and of course Red Bull are happy. This isn't the fault of the two teams, this is the fault of the stewards, the race director and ultimately the FIA.
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The stewards will probably make up other rules when considering the appeal. Utter shambles by the race director making things up on the hoof to give some drivers a racing advantage and others a disadvantage, especially when he had been lobbied by Red Bull on the mic. A bit like the earlier race when the race director asked Red Bull what penalty they wanted on racing order. Ridiculous
 
Simple two questions to be asked of Masi is a straightforward yes or no question, Did you follow the rules by allowing all the lapped cars to pass the safety car? The only answer is no.

2nd question, As the rules specify did the safety car complete a full lap with all the cars in their correct position.? Answer is again no.

He clearly didn't follow the rules and protocol for the sake of wanting to give the crowd a spectacle of a finish.

If this had happened pretty much any other time in the race then he would have followed the correct rules and protocol.
 
decision in 15 mins

One Mercedes protest rejected - the one about overtaking before the restart.

"Although (VER) did, for a very short period of time, move slightly in front of (HAM), when both were accelerating and braking, moved back behind and not in front when safety car period ended"
 
16 minutes to wait. No way are thet gonna change the result but I don't know how they can justify or validate their decision.
 
first appeal rejected probably rightly so but it's pushing it a bit to say Max was behind when the race restarted. He was much more alongside than behind.
 
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