As we were saying...

Looking at the media today I am thinking that there may have been a decision by the men in suits to sacrifice Johnson over his Covid mistakes and the Brexit 'teething' problems. It sort of solves a problem, blame can be laid at Johnson's door, and the government can move on with a new leader putting the past behind them. It would kill two birds with one stone just as things are probably going to get significantly better.
Both the Mail and Telegraph, from what I have heard, have lead with something similar today, surely that is a barometer of Conservative thinking atm. I wonder if / when a potential new leader will put his / her head above the parapet.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Looking at the media today I am thinking that there may have been a decision by the men in suits to sacrifice Johnson over his Covid mistakes and the Brexit 'teething' problems. It sort of solves a problem, blame can be laid at Johnson's door, and the government can move on with a new leader putting the past behind them. It would kill two birds with one stone just as things are probably going to get significantly better.
Both the Mail and Telegraph, from what I have heard, have lead with something similar today, surely that is a barometer of Conservative thinking atm. I wonder if / when a potential new leader will put his / her head above the parapet.
Click to expand...
Gove, Rees-Mogg, Patel, Hancock.
Christ on a bike.
 
The media are starting to ask difficult questions and at PMQs the same difficult question asked by KS - i.e. that the government didn't do everything possible to save life as it keeps stating.
The cynic in me is thinking that somewhere in the smoky backrooms of the Conservative Party, the powerful have realised that a sacrifice must be made and that it would go a long way to drawing a line under things as the situation starts to improve.
 
Wizaard said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Covid-19: 'Poor decisions' to blame for UK death toll, scientists say

A "legacy of poor decisions" in 2020 and before the pandemic led to 100,000 deaths, scientists say.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Pretty damning indictment of how we've handled the crisis.

Johnson accepts "full responsibility"
Click to expand...
More tosh from the spin doctor. Think you're acting as the propaganda machine of China. He accepts responsibility for the decisions the govt have had to make and in a few cases got badly wrong. Of course he's rightly sorry for that. I said over nine months ago that it was inevitable that mistakes would be made and lives would be lost because of it. It was a case of simply trying to make as few mistakes as possible. Like I said last night go and watch "This World" and see the lies of China, firstly to it's own people then to the WHO and the rest of the world. They want to blame the rest of the world for over 2 million lives lost. Nowhere near that many lives would have been lost if China had been honest and closed it's own borders in the first place..
 
20togo said:
More tosh from the spin doctor. Think you're acting as the propaganda machine of China. He accepts responsibility for the decisions the govt have had to make and in a few cases got badly wrong. Of course he's rightly sorry for that. I said over nine months ago that it was inevitable that mistakes would be made and lives would be lost because of it. It was a case of simply trying to make as few mistakes as possible. Like I said last night go and watch "This World" and see the lies of China, firstly to it's own people then to the WHO and the rest of the world. They want to blame the rest of the world for over 2 million lives lost. Nowhere near that many lives would have been lost if China had been honest and closed it's own borders in the first place..
Click to expand...
And as this report said, weve got decisions wrong at every single point.

The only thing that emerges with any credit is the vaccine development and rollout. We continue to repeat the mistakes we made right at the start and appear to have learned nothing.

Not spin, over 100,000 deaths, a lot of which were avoidable.
 
As I said,, it may well be that Johnson is offered as a blood sacrifice. He has done what the 'forces of conservatism' wanted in that he has got Brexit done. In short he has served his purpose and will be a convenient scapegoat for mistakes made in this crisis. He isn't really PM material as many on all sides have realised.
 
There is no doubt in mind that China holds a large responsibility for this crisis not that they will give a fuck.
Having said that, I can find no direct links to China for the large number of decisions made in the UK that has led to the record number of deaths
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
As I said,, it may well be that Johnson is offered as a blood sacrifice. He has done what the 'forces of conservatism' wanted in that he has got Brexit done. In short he has served his purpose and will be a convenient scapegoat for mistakes made in this crisis. He isn't really PM material as many on all sides have realised.
Click to expand...
I think you are onto something here No named horse. Johnson does seem to be putting himself out there (not that he shouldn't as PM)
 
Wizaard said:
And as this report said, weve got decisions wrong at every single point.

The only thing that emerges with any credit is the vaccine development and rollout. We continue to repeat the mistakes we made right at the start and appear to have learned nothing.

Not spin, over 100,000 deaths, a lot of which were avoidable.
Click to expand...
Indeed they were avoidable. If China had done the right thing in the first place. Simple fact is they didn't yet you want to put all the blame of the 100,000 deaths at the govts door. Here's a fact, if China hadn't released the virus across the globe, not one single UK resident would have died. S
 
At least he had the balls to say it’s my responsibility.

I wonder what Comrade Corbyn would have Said had he won the election? “Blame the Home Secretary Dianne Abbott nothing to do with me” 🙄
 
20togo said:
Indeed they were avoidable. If China had done the right thing in the first place. Simple fact is they didn't yet you want to put all the blame of the 100,000 deaths at the govts door. Here's a fact, if China hadn't released the virus across the globe, not one single UK resident would have died. S
Click to expand...
So China released the virus. Pray tell be how they could have not done so. PS - huge numbers of people travel in and out of China all the time ((well did anyway) including thousands of Brits and other Europeans who wanted (needed) to get home
 
Hertsseasider said:
So China released the virus. Pray tell be how they could have not done so. PS - huge numbers of people travel in and out of China all the time ((well did anyway) including thousands of Brits and other Europeans who wanted (needed) to get home
Click to expand...
The spread to Europe was thought to be initially between China and Northern Italy. There is a lot of trade and consequently travel between these two regions with many 'Italian' goods relying on Chinese manufacturers.
 
Wizaard said:
And as this report said, weve got decisions wrong at every single point.

The only thing that emerges with any credit is the vaccine development and rollout. We continue to repeat the mistakes we made right at the start and appear to have learned nothing.

Not spin, over 100,000 deaths, a lot of which were avoidable.
Click to expand...
So now it's a lot that were avoidable. Not all of them. Make up your mind
 
Hertsseasider said:
So China released the virus. Pray tell be how they could have not done so. PS - huge numbers of people travel in and out of China all the time ((well did anyway) including thousands of Brits and other Europeans who wanted (needed) to get home
Click to expand...
So if China had closed their borders much earlier than they did, if they ever did, rather than come out with their lies and deceit, is it reasonable to think that the death total around the globe would perhaps be considerably less than the 2 million it currently is? But hey, your logic is that each and every country is entirely to blame for their own deaths.
 
20togo said:
So if China had closed their borders much earlier than they did, if they ever did, rather than come out with their lies and deceit, is it reasonable to think that the death total around the globe would perhaps be considerably less than the 2 million it currently is? But hey, your logic is that each and every country is entirely to blame for their own deaths.
Click to expand...
OK, that's better, well done. Right do you know when China closed it's borders ? Here's a clue it was in March 2020. The problem is that this was for inbound only. It was the responsibility of other countries to close their borders to China. And guess when the UK did just that ?
 
20togo said:
So if China had closed their borders much earlier than they did, if they ever did, rather than come out with their lies and deceit, is it reasonable to think that the death total around the globe would perhaps be considerably less than the 2 million it currently is? But hey, your logic is that each and every country is entirely to blame for their own deaths.
Click to expand...
We still havent closed our borders so your point is invalid.
 
Wizaard said:
I'm being reasonable. You should try it instead of blaming everything on anything but Boris.
Click to expand...
I love your logic Wiz.
Taking your logic, it's like saying Germany started two world wars but our countries deaths were our fault because we went to war with them. Not a nice analogy I know, but that's the logic you are using by putting every single uk death at the govts door..
Hertsseasider said:
OK, that's better, well done. Right do you know when China closed it's borders ? Here's a clue it was in March 2020. The problem is that this was for inbound only. It was the responsibility of other countries to close their borders to China. And guess when the UK did just that ?
Click to expand...
Right, so they closed their incoming borders in March but KNOWINGLY allowed their residents to take the virus to all parts of the globe. But hey, that's not their issue. Of course it is. They needed to show some responsibility from the outset. That was in December 2019 and they showed NONE.
 
Wizaard said:
Except plenty on here say he bears no responsibility, because it's all China's fault.
Click to expand...
Clearly didn’t watch the programme on BBC last night then ? Think part 2 is on tonight. I suggest you take a look if you still believe China are innocent.
 
20togo said:
Right, so they closed their incoming borders in March but KNOWINGLY allowed their residents to take the virus to all parts of the globe. But hey, that's not their issue. Of course it is. They needed to show some responsibility from the outset. That was in December 2019 and they showed NONE.
Click to expand...
Whilst this may surprise you, I tend to agree on China allowing it's citizens to travel. However, what about all the non Chinese in China ? Should they have been locked in ? And also, what is your view on the UK not closing its Borders to date ?
 
20togo said:
More tosh from the spin doctor. Think you're acting as the propaganda machine of China. He accepts responsibility for the decisions the govt have had to make and in a few cases got badly wrong. Of course he's rightly sorry for that. I said over nine months ago that it was inevitable that mistakes would be made and lives would be lost because of it. It was a case of simply trying to make as few mistakes as possible. Like I said last night go and watch "This World" and see the lies of China, firstly to it's own people then to the WHO and the rest of the world. They want to blame the rest of the world for over 2 million lives lost. Nowhere near that many lives would have been lost if China had been honest and closed it's own borders in the first place..
Click to expand...
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Hertsseasider said:
Whilst this may surprise you, I tend to agree on China allowing it's citizens to travel. However, what about all the non Chinese in China ? Should they have been locked in ? And also, what is your view on the UK not closing its Borders to date ?
Click to expand...
Said before we perhaps should have closed our borders. Do I have to keep repeating myself by saying that the govt have made mistakes. That said, and again as I've already said, we could have closed our borders two weeks before the rest of Europe or even at the same time as them, but the disease was already here. It was already spreading. Like lockdown you can go into it, but once you come out it starts spreading again, it doesn't eliminate it.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
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China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China China
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Just for you Lytham, might cheer you up.

T'Pau - China In Your Hand (Official Video) - YouTube
 
Scaramanga said:
Clearly didn’t watch the programme on BBC last night then ? Think part 2 is on tonight. I suggest you take a look if you still believe China are innocent.
Click to expand...
I've never once said they are. Of course there's some culpability born out of their culture of secrecy, but that doesnt excuse our continued failure to react appropriately, or heaven forbid, act proactively to reduce the impact.
 
20togo said:
I love your logic Wiz.
Taking your logic, it's like saying Germany started two world wars but our countries deaths were our fault because we went to war with them. Not a nice analogy I know, but that's the logic you are using by putting every single uk death at the govts door..

Right, so they closed their incoming borders in March but KNOWINGLY allowed their residents to take the virus to all parts of the globe. But hey, that's not their issue. Of course it is. They needed to show some responsibility from the outset. That was in December 2019 and they showed NONE.
Click to expand...
Completely inappropriate analogy and deep down you know it.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
As I said,, it may well be that Johnson is offered as a blood sacrifice. He has done what the 'forces of conservatism' wanted in that he has got Brexit done. In short he has served his purpose and will be a convenient scapegoat for mistakes made in this crisis. He isn't really PM material as many on all sides have realised.
Click to expand...
I think secretly he'd be quite glad to go. Boris never did like work much and there's a world of pain ahead for whoever's in charge. He must be so envious of Cameron, who's stepped round the dog toffee he created and just quietly schmooozed his way to a nice little earner.
 
Mark_GT said:
I think secretly he'd be quite glad to go. Boris never did like work much and there's a world of pain ahead for whoever's in charge. He must be so envious of Cameron, who's stepped round the dog toffee he created and just quietly schmooozed his way to a nice little earner.
Click to expand...

Theresa May has pulled in £2.5m this year from a few online speeches. No responsibilities, no hard decisions to make, no travelling. If Boris no longer fancies what must be the toughest job in this country's political history, he should cash in his chips now.
 
tommytwojags said:
Theresa May has pulled in £2.5m this year from a few online speeches. No responsibilities, no hard decisions to make, no travelling. If Boris no longer fancies what must be the toughest job in this country's political history, he should cash in his chips now.
Click to expand...
What a wonderful world we live in, you can completely fuck up and then get paid obscene amounts of money to talk about it!
Let's hope nobody tells the Stains.
 
Wizaard said:
I'm being reasonable. You should try it instead of blaming everything on anything but Boris.
Click to expand...
But I haven't blamed everything on anything but Boris. There you go once again twisting things round and making things up. And I'm far from the only poster who's noticed that. As Blood asked, have you been smoking the crack pipe again?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Looking at the media today I am thinking that there may have been a decision by the men in suits to sacrifice Johnson over his Covid mistakes and the Brexit 'teething' problems. It sort of solves a problem, blame can be laid at Johnson's door, and the government can move on with a new leader putting the past behind them. It would kill two birds with one stone just as things are probably going to get significantly better.
Both the Mail and Telegraph, from what I have heard, have lead with something similar today, surely that is a barometer of Conservative thinking atm. I wonder if / when a potential new leader will put his / her head above the parapet.
Click to expand...

Tories? Sacrifice a leader in a politically motivated coup that leaves them emerging chamaeleon like from the ruins of the previously tarnished reputation?

Next you'll be telling me we won 5-0 last night. Get out of here!
 
Surely one significant measure of a leader is how well he plays the hand he is dealt, as McMillon is purported to have said when asked what might knock a government off course, “events dear boy events” its how you deal with those events as to how the electorate will judge you.

Regardless of who dealt the cards Boris can in no way be said to have played them as well as he should or as well as others would have.

Time will tell if a successful vaccine roll out will purge the memories of many of how Boris has played his hand, but my feeling is, he will be long gone before the next general election.
 
Wizaard said:
And as this report said, weve got decisions wrong at every single point.

The only thing that emerges with any credit is the vaccine development and rollout. We continue to repeat the mistakes we made right at the start and appear to have learned nothing.

Not spin, over 100,000 deaths, a lot of which were avoidable.
Click to expand...
Jesus christ wizaard you're like bloody hyena.
Hanging around the edges until you see an animal in trouble then just go in for the kill.

The injured animal has little defence as it's already injured and it's only a matter of time before the rest of the hyenas get together and finish the job.

Like the looney left looking for any mistakes that a government makes even though that government is already injured through no fault of it's own. I really cannot see how you can absolve China from ANY blame but then again I can because then you wouldn't have such a big stick to beat them with.

A reasonable debate would be, once the pandemic struck the government for whatever reason made some bad mistakes but it wouldn't have mattered a job if other sources had been honest and up front.
But you wouldn't listen to that would you
 
Wizzerboy said:
Jesus christ wizaard you're like bloody hyena.
Hanging around the edges until you see an animal in trouble then just go in for the kill.

The injured animal has little defence as it's already injured and it's only a matter of time before the rest of the hyenas get together and finish the job.

Like the looney left looking for any mistakes that a government makes even though that government is already injured through no fault of it's own. I really cannot see how you can absolve China from ANY blame but then again I can because then you wouldn't have such a big stick to beat them with.

A reasonable debate would be, once the pandemic struck the government for whatever reason made some bad mistakes but it wouldn't have mattered a job if other sources had been honest and up front.
But you wouldn't listen to that would you
Click to expand...
Another who thinks I'm absolving China. I've never said that. The loony right has wrongly attributed it to me.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
But I haven't blamed everything on anything but Boris. There you go once again twisting things round and making things up. And I'm far from the only poster who's noticed that. As Blood asked, have you been smoking the crack pipe again?
Click to expand...
And I have never absolved China but you and your cohort keep saying I have.
 
Wiz, every time you mention China, it rings a bell, and that is what they react to.

Bloody Pavlov, coming over here with his fancy foreign ideas.....
 
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