Covid Europe

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tangojoe

Well-known member
Mmmm the desperation of brexiteers claiming the vaccination programme is a result of leaving the EU is a classic. Such foresight when you cast your vote in 2016. 😂
Meanwhile riots in Northern Island last night and ongoing trade issues. Thank god for covid the ultimate dead cat.

You'll be telling us next that the troubles brewing in Northern Ireland are nothing to do with Brexit.
 

Matesrates

Well-known member
MrsDP just spoke to our friends in France.
They started a 4 week 'Lockdown' from midnight last night.
They're OK, have 23 acre land area and nearest village about 2 miles.
Love going there, hope we can this year.
Have you got room in your car for two more?
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
What BFCx3 does not get, and never gets, is that they planned for it here and executed that plan.

The UK government game, and plan for all sorts of scenarios - so,l they either screwed up the gaming or were terrible at execution.

Or the two countries faced completely different situations.
 

TSSeasider

Well-known member
Mmmm the desperation of brexiteers claiming the vaccination programme is a result of leaving the EU is a classic. Such foresight when you cast your vote in 2016.
Of course those who viewed to leave the EU couldn't have known that a global pandemic was a few years away; but they did know that the institution of the EU is a slow, cumbersome and political organisation.

The fact that those characteristics have cost lives in member states is self evident, the fact that being completely independent of the EU enabled a much nimbler response.

I can't see that this is up for challenge really.

And as for the future, and future challenges and opportunities, who knows?

It may be a disaster, it may be a move which is brilliant, as it stands it's far too early to tell.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Very nice was the food and wine too 👍

What BFCx3 does not get, and never gets, is that they planned for it here and executed that plan.

The UK government game, and plan for all sorts of scenarios - so,l they either screwed up the gaming or were terrible at execution.

The one thing they have done brilliantly well is the vaccination roll out and don’t forget the distribution was organised by the army - but Boris must take credit for that as he must take the blame for the failures.

JVT deserves a knighthood 👍 and Kate Bingham deserves the equivalent.
What S1 doesn’t get is that the whole region that he lives in has barely suffered anything like the issues with Covid experienced elsewhere and whilst he might have convinced himself that has to do with ‘planning’, he certainly hasn’t provided much in the way of compelling evidence at all, to support that claim.

It’s easy to be smug when you’ve had a lucky break, but when luck isn’t a factor (in the case of vaccination progress) it seems that Singapore are very much, behind the curve, when compared to the forerunners like the U.K....

Perhaps they were too busy slapping backs ?
 

Shandypants

Well-known member
You'll be telling us next that the troubles brewing in Northern Ireland are nothing to do with Brexit.
The loyalists are kicking off, don't forget it was Johnson that said repeatedly there wasn't going to be a border, he lied, pity he wasn't honest in the first place and he made a massive issue about May's backstop deal. Of course its to do with Brexit. No doubt you'll blame the EU, you know the organisation that didn't set up the red line system.
 

Davepick

Well-known member
Have you got room in your car for two more?
Mates, with the stuff we take, both for ourselves, and our friends, we're lucky to both get in the car.
I downsized when I bought this car, now I'm beginning to think that I made a mistake. 🙄
We're also taking some Bowling equipment, mats, Jacks etc which we got cheap.
They've built their own green on their land.
 

Newholland

Well-known member
Too late with the lockdown last year. Thousands died because they ignored the scientific advice.
Billions to a privatised Track and Trace which is still failing even now, 9 months on. Millions too to other Tory donors and friends in corrupt contract processes.
Ignoring the science again in the autumn, allowing the second wave to again kill thousands.
The insult of a 1% rise (effectively a pay cut) to those NHS workers who have gone above and beyond during the pandemic.
Incompetence on a massive scale over schools in the last 12 months.
But they have managed to get one thing right. Whoopy doo!
You refer to 1% pay rise for NHS staff, has that been confirmed? As I understand it’s a recommendation to now be decided by the pay review body in the next couple of months? As for the rest of your post, different scientific advice would be the government’s defence. Track and trace... you’ll get no argument from me there.
 

seasideone

Well-known member
What S1 doesn’t get is that the whole region that he lives in has barely suffered anything like the issues with Covid experienced elsewhere and whilst he might have convinced himself that has to do with ‘planning’, he certainly hasn’t provided much in the way of compelling evidence at all, to support that claim.

It’s easy to be smug when you’ve had a lucky break, but when luck isn’t a factor (in the case of vaccination progress) it seems that Singapore are very much, behind the curve, when compared to the forerunners like the U.K....

Perhaps they were too busy slapping backs ?
It was not luck it was a plan that had been decided years before and executed.

Vaccination is taking place here at a rate that is good enough as the virus is not really here.

The UK should have shut the borders and it did not - that’s the major difference.
 
Last edited:

tangerinenotorange

Well-known member
The loyalists are kicking off, don't forget it was Johnson that said repeatedly there wasn't going to be a border, he lied, pity he wasn't honest in the first place and he made a massive issue about May's backstop deal. Of course its to do with Brexit. No doubt you'll blame the EU, you know the organisation that didn't set up the red line system.

Johnson was wrong about the NI border. The EU was wrong too. That situation was foreseeable, but apparently both sides failed to see it. The obvious remedy is for both sides to revisit the issue, but the EU is refusing. And that pretty much sums up the basic difference between the two. The big lumbering inflexible bloc can't deal with necessary adjustments in the trading arrangements like it can't deal with changes in the vaccine roll out, like it can't secure agreement on the covid rescue fund or on anything else. Hell, it can't even agree to extend the period of grace in Northern Ireland. How do you deal with an organisation like that?
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
It want luck it was a plan that had been decided years before and executed.

Vaccination is taking place here at a rate that is good enough as the virus is not really here.

The UK should have shut the borders and it did not - that’s the major difference.
It was luck

Singapore did nothing remarkably different to the U.K. as Lost Seasiders has diligently demonstrated with facts on more than one occasion.

When you’ve finished your meal, perhaps ask the Waiter for the ‘reality’ check 👍
 

seasideone

Well-known member
It was luck

Singapore did nothing remarkably different to the U.K. as Lost Seasiders has diligently demonstrated with facts on more than one occasion.

When you’ve finished your meal, perhaps ask the Waiter for the ‘reality’ check 👍
Which bit of Singapore shut the borders and the UK didn’t (and still haven’t) do you not get?

Why was that luck? They looked at the evidence and made the correct decision.

Why don’t you ask your waiter for a reality check instead? - oh sorry, you can’t!!!!!
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
Which bit of Singapore shut the borders and the UK didn’t (and still haven’t) do you not get?

23 March, the day we went into lockdown, at which point the borders were effectively shut anyway, not that with 50,000+ domestic infections per day it would've made much of a difference either way.

AFAIK Singapore never really closed the borders either, there were always the same exemptions for essential travel and returning residents that the UK had, so the practical difference between the two country's actions (in this area at least) was minimal.
 

Wizaard

Well-known member
It is indeed but when you have relentless negativity from so many on here with regards to the UK and the EU it's good to celebrate something we've been ahead of the game in. Pity that so many remainers are reluctant to do that though.
Name one who hasn't said the vaccination programme hasn't been a success.

You're talking bollox.
 

Wizaard

Well-known member
23 March, the day we went into lockdown, at which point the borders were effectively shut anyway, not that with 50,000+ domestic infections per day it would've made much of a difference either way.

AFAIK Singapore never really closed the borders either, there were always the same exemptions for essential travel and returning residents that the UK had, so the practical difference between the two country's actions (in this area at least) was minimal.
Effectively shut apart from the hundreds of thousands continuing to come and go.
 

20togo

Well-known member
Name one who hasn't said the vaccination programme hasn't been a success.

You're talking bollox.
Have I said that? Not mentioned it at all. Just mentioned the relentless negativity and that's what it is. Go and read any post from Cat for proof. Not me talking bollox, it's you.
 

Wizaard

Well-known member
Have I said that? Not mentioned it at all. Just mentioned the relentless negativity and that's what it is. Go and read any post from Cat for proof. Not me talking bollox, it's you.
You said relentless negativity, yet acknowledge remainers have praised the vaccination programme.

You just can't admit you're wrong.

"Pity so many remainers are reluctant to do that though"
 

catinstalbans

Well-known member
Have I said that? Not mentioned it at all. Just mentioned the relentless negativity and that's what it is. Go and read any post from Cat for proof. Not me talking bollox, it's you.
More bullying! A sneaky attack even when replying to others you disagree with.
 

20togo

Well-known member
You said relentless negativity, yet acknowledge remainers have praised the vaccination programme.

You just can't admit you're wrong.

"Pity so many remainers are reluctant to do that though"
Bit like you were with "for me,I...."
 

seasideone

Well-known member
23 March, the day we went into lockdown, at which point the borders were effectively shut anyway, not that with 50,000+ domestic infections per day it would've made much of a difference either way.

AFAIK Singapore never really closed the borders either, there were always the same exemptions for essential travel and returning residents that the UK had, so the practical difference between the two country's actions (in this area at least) was minimal.
That’s simply not true!!!!

The UK has NEVER locked its borders.

Singapore brought mandatory hotel quarantine in very early on.

You are not allowed by international law to stop your own citizens coming in, BUT Singapore quarantined them for two weeks.

The UK just kept, and still does throw petrol on the flames.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I’d be interested to know who Cat has bullied. Perhaps you could enlighten us.
He bullies all the people who are fed up of his constant attacks in all his posts. He tries to brow beat us because of his obsession and hatred of the govt and PM. That's bullying.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Which bit of Singapore shut the borders and the UK didn’t (and still haven’t) do you not get?

Why was that luck? They looked at the evidence and made the correct decision.

Why don’t you ask your waiter for a reality check instead? - oh sorry, you can’t!!!!!
Which part of you're whole region hasn't had to cope with anything like the same issue that the U.K. has dealt with (and still hasn't) do you not get?

It was luck because the miniscule scale of the issue meant that it was easy to deal with.... The implemented similar measures at similar times to others, but luckily the virus just wasn't as much of an issue.

When Singapore can implement a vaccination programme on the scale of the U.K. , including developing, testing and implementing then come back and talk.... Until then enjoy your food and thank you're lucky stars that fortune was on your side.
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
That’s simply not true!!!!

The UK has NEVER locked its borders.

If you're not allowed to leave your house for 2 - 3 months except for exercise and essential shopping the fact that the borders are "open" is irrelevant anyway, nobody is flying in or out unless they really have to.

In any event the point I made was about timing, by the time Singapore acted on 23 March the virus was already established in the UK, at which point "there is no point [in shutting the borders], the virus is already here".

Some numbers to put things in perspective:
  • we know that the virus was imported about 1,500 times in Feb/March;
  • if we simplify that to 30 days that gives about 50 cases per day;
  • around 23 March the daily domestic infections were probably somewhere around 50,000 - 100,000;
  • the effect of closing the border on 23 March would therefore have been no more than 0.1% of daily infections (in reality less).

Singapore brought mandatory hotel quarantine in very early on.

You are not allowed by international law to stop your own citizens coming in, BUT Singapore quarantined them for two weeks.

"There is no point, it is already here".
 
Last edited:

seasideone

Well-known member
I give up on this thread because of the absolute lack of knowledge and understanding of what Singapore achieved and why they did it.

The UK lost thousands of people because of the governments incompetence at the beginning of this - obviously you support the decisions they made and think they were right.

Just a reminder, in comparison, Singapore has lost 30 people in a year and you STILL think they were lucky 👍
 

Scaramanga

Well-known member
More bullying! A sneaky attack even when replying to others you disagree with.
CAT you are such a cry baby, you come on pissing and moaning incessantly then when you get pulled up on it you cry Bully. So predictable, awaits removal of post and slap on the wrist from your complaint to the mods.
 

Thelaneends1

Well-known member
CAT you are such a cry baby, you come on pissing and moaning incessantly then when you get pulled up on it you cry Bully. So predictable, awaits removal of post and slap on the wrist from your complaint to the mods.
The guy is a prick why doesn't he do one and join his french/German weirdos and live in his EU dreamland.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
I give up on this thread because of the absolute lack of knowledge and understanding of what Singapore achieved and why they did it.

The UK lost thousands of people because of the governments incompetence at the beginning of this - obviously you support the decisions they made and think they were right.

Just a reminder, in comparison, Singapore has lost 30 people in a year and you STILL think they were lucky 👍
I think you are actually giving up because of your own lack of knowledge and understanding TBF. You've literally provided nothing remotely compelling to justify your assumptions / propaganda. The UK lost many thousand of lives because we faced a totally different and far more significant issue that Singapore did... Some lives may have been saved had we taken certain measures earlier, but not on the scale you imply. The fact Singapore has escaped the worst effects of the virus is a matter of fate not foresight.
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
I give up on this thread because of the absolute lack of knowledge and understanding of what Singapore achieved and why they did it.

The UK lost thousands of people because of the governments incompetence at the beginning of this - obviously you support the decisions they made and think they were right.

A chart to illustrate my point:
1617559516950.png

You can believe, if you like, that the whole of Europe, North America & South America completely f***ed up their response to the virus whilst all of Asia and only Asia got it 100% spot on, or you can suspect that maybe something else was going on that wasn't a function of the government's response.

I included Japan alongside the continents btw, because they have a large elderly population that ought to be vulnerable to Covid, and because they are thought to have f***ed up their pandemic response as well, but somehow they did even better than the average for Asia.
 

Recidivist3

Well-known member
CAT you are such a cry baby, you come on pissing and moaning incessantly then when you get pulled up on it you cry Bully. So predictable, awaits removal of post and slap on the wrist from your complaint to the mods.
🙄 comedy magic coming from Mr ‘OI MODS’
 

catinstalbans

Well-known member
Three posters yesterday. Three posters today. Abusive comments because I am willing to criticise Boris Johnson.
20s is always one of them but the mods continue to do nothing except pull whole threads.
 

seasideone

Well-known member
I think you are actually giving up because of your own lack of knowledge and understanding TBF. You've literally provided nothing remotely compelling to justify your assumptions / propaganda. The UK lost many thousand of lives because we faced a totally different and far more significant issue that Singapore did... Some lives may have been saved had we taken certain measures earlier, but not on the scale you imply. The fact Singapore has escaped the worst effects of the virus is a matter of fate not foresight.
Nope

The UK screwed up by leaving the borders open and not realising the problem - even though Matt Hancock admitted he knew of the problem coming in Jan 2020

UK 127000 deaths v Singapore 30
UK Population 66m v Singapore 5.5m

The ratios don’t quite match.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Nope

The UK screwed up by leaving the borders open and not realising the problem - even though Matt Hancock admitted he knew of the problem coming in Jan 2020

UK 127000 deaths v Singapore 30
UK Population 66m v Singapore 5.5m

The ratios don’t quite match.
Lol...

We know that the U.K. suffered more deaths.... That’s not up for debate..

What is up for debate is the reasons for the difference.... You’re yet to provide anything at all that supports your argument, beyond repeating your own assumptions...
 

seasideone

Well-known member
Lol...

We know that the U.K. suffered more deaths.... That’s not up for debate..

What is up for debate is the reasons for the difference.... You’re yet to provide anything at all that supports your argument, beyond repeating your own assumptions...
I don’t think the UK death toll is a ‘Lol...’ comment, that’s pretty poor if you ask me 😞

The difference is simple - one government acted correctly and one didn’t.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
I don’t think the UK death toll is a ‘Lol...’ comment, that’s pretty poor if you ask me 😞

The difference is simple - one government acted correctly and one didn’t.
I was lolling at the fact that you had managed to fail so spectacularly in justifying your assumptions.

I suppose it would suit your purpose though to try and go off on a tangent by coming up with some bullshit accusation.

Like I said before...

Lost Seasider has consistently owned you in this debate. They have provided evidence to support their argument and to undermine yours...By contrast you’ve offered nothing beyond your own assumptions.

You have no credibility at all 👎
 

seasideone

Well-known member
I was lolling at the fact that you had managed to fail so spectacularly in justifying your assumptions.

I suppose it would suit your purpose though to try and go off on a tangent by coming up with some bullshit accusation.

Like I said before...

Lost Seasider has consistently owned you in this debate. They have provided evidence to support their argument and to undermine yours...By contrast you’ve offered nothing beyond your own assumptions.

You have no credibility at all 👎
127000 deaths v 30, and I have no credibility in suggesting Singapore got it right and the UK didn’t.
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
It’s not shit - it’s a fact.

127000 v 30

On what day did Singapore close its borders?

If the UK had exactly mirrored Singapore's actions on the same day what effect do you think it would've had on the outbreak?

Evidence and reasoning for your opinion please.

Finally please explain why Japan did none of the things that Singapore did but still ended up with broadly comparable outcomes.
 

seasideone

Well-known member
On what day did Singapore close its borders?

If the UK had exactly mirrored Singapore's actions on the same day what effect do you think it would've had on the outbreak?

Evidence and reasoning for your opinion please.

Finally please explain why Japan did none of the things that Singapore did but still ended up with broadly comparable outcomes.
Japan have had approx 9200 deaths compared to 30, so not sure that’s a broadly similar outcome as it’s c300x more deaths.

The actual dates the borders closed are not that relevant, as it is the individual date for each country that matters depending on where they were up to - as each country was at a different stage.

127000 v 30 - which government got it right?
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
It’s not shit - it’s a fact.

127000 v 30
It may well be fact, but it is not proof of your assumptions.

So have you got anything else to add that supports your assumptions, beyond repeating the same thing over and over or can we conclude that your argument is as flimsy as it appears to be! ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top
X