Edward Colston statue toppled in Bristol...

I can identify with why the protesters pulled his statue down, but agree that it could be put in a museum in Bristol to show future generations what this guy did. We’ve visited similar historical momuments of a similar vibe over the years, which include, the infamous Dome in Hiroshima, The Nazi Rally Grounds in Nuremberg, The Lorraine Motel and Civil Rights Museum in Memphis, Nazi Concentration camps still to visit. All these horrendous events in time should never be erased from history.
 
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Did you see the chap with long blonde dreadlocks being the first to jump all over the statue as soon as it hit the ground? Then all his mates. Reminded me of the Saddam Hussein statue in Iraq.
 
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catinstalbans said:
Bet it's all from white people of a particular cured ham persuasion.
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The AVFTT Mod - you know who you are -voice of reason - says I cannot challenge Cats statement as my post will be deleted. So it seems the mods will initially allow him to post controversial messages but these can't be challenged by me. It's a one way street and the mod is allowing the poster to now have carte blanche to post his messages of hatred.
YOU CLEARLY DIDN'T THINK YOUR ACTIONS THROUGH BECAUSE I NEVER START THE POSTS. SHAME ON YOU.
 
Levi501 said:
I can identify with why the protesters pulled his statue down, but agree that it could be put in a museum in Bristol to show future generations what this guy did. We’ve visited similar historical momuments of a similar vibe over the years, which include, the infamous Dome in Hiroshima, The Nazi Rally Grounds in Nuremberg, The Lorraine Motel and Civil Rights Museum in Memphis, Nazi Concentration camps still to visit. All these horrendous events in time should never be erased from history.
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I agree although facts are facts and it was an act of vandalism.
 
20togo said:
The AVFTT Mod - you know who you are -voice of reason - says I cannot challenge Cats statement as my post will be deleted. So it seems the mods will initially allow him to post controversial messages but these can't be challenged by me. It's a one way street and the mod is allowing the poster to now have carte blanche to post his messages of hatred.
YOU CLEARLY DIDN'T THINK YOUR ACTIONS THROUGH BECAUSE I NEVER START THE POSTS. SHAME ON YOU.
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Jeez 20s you’re not going to hijack another thread with your anti Cat campaign are you?

If, as you claim, you’ve had a warning from the Mods, why don’t you stop and think for a moment? I bet they don’t have any issue at all in you debating the particular issue with Cat. I suspect it’s your continual personal attacks, regardless of the topic, that they’ve had enough of.
 
Levi501 said:
I can identify with why the protesters pulled his statue down, but agree that it could be put in a museum in Bristol to show future generations what this guy did. We’ve visited similar historical momuments of a similar vibe over the years, which include, the infamous Dome in Hiroshima, The Nazi Rally Grounds in Nuremberg, The Lorraine Motel and Civil Rights Museum in Memphis, Nazi Concentration camps still to visit. All these horrendous events in time should never be erased from history.
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I think part of the problem is that that solution has been talked about for years and nothing was ever done. There comes a time when civil disobedience is the only way. The suffragettes got pelters for their campaign but would have had to wait for years for the right to vote, if they hadn’t taken direct action.

And closer to home, there were of course the protests outside BR and in Waddington.
 
TBH I was very surprised to learn that this statue was on display in Bristol in this age. How could it have remained there for so long and what does it say about the city and it's people? I am glad that it has been removed but why didn't the city council remove it in (for instance) the 1980s? I'm sure that the statue will be recovered and then it can go in a museum somewhere, there is a slavery musuem in Liverpool and also one in Hull.
On another note, statues are there to honour and remember people, buildings are functional and can be renamed.
 
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Mexboroseasider said:
Jeez 20s you’re not going to hijack another thread with your anti Cat campaign are you?

If, as you claim, you’ve had a warning from the Mods, why don’t you stop and think for a moment? I bet they don’t have any issue at all in you debating the particular issue with Cat. I suspect it’s your continual personal attacks, regardless of the topic, that they’ve had enough of.
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I suggest you go and read the AJ thread regarding personal attacks. It's not a one way street you know. He is the chief protagonist for starting threads and posting his views. He is a political agitator. Why shouldn't I be allowed to challenge those views?
 
20togo said:
I suggest you go and read the AJ thread regarding personal attacks. It's not a one way street you know. He is the chief protagonist for starting threads and posting his views. He is a political agitator. Why shouldn't I be allowed to challenge those views?
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Challenge the views by all means. Dissect them; analyse them; explain why they are wrong.

But your knee jerk response is always to attack Cat personally.

There’s a big difference.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Challenge the views by all means. Dissect them; analyse them; explain why they are wrong.

But your knee jerk response is always to attack Cat personally.

There’s a big difference.
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Why shouldn't I suggest he's a political agitator? I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest he is.
And you're totally missing the basic premise of my point too. I cannot explain why they are wrong. Why? Because they are his views and opinions and he's perfectly entitled to have them! I said that more than once. What I believe I am entitled to do is point out Cats motives and question them. What other purpose does he come on to AVFTT for!
In your own words " There's a big difference".
 
20togo said:
Why shouldn't I suggest he's a political agitator? I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest he is.
And you're totally missing the basic premise of my point too. I cannot explain why they are wrong. Why? Because they are his views and opinions and he's perfectly entitled to have them! I said that more than once. What I believe I am entitled to do is point out Cats motives and question them. What other purpose does he come on to AVFTT for!
In your own words " There's a big difference".
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Well at least you didn’t say “he started it!!”, which is progress of a sort I suppose (or maybe you did?).

Of course you can claim he’s a political agitator (although the same claim could be made about anyone who posts on the political thread) but you do much more than that. You attack Cat personally. Some people (not sure whether you have to be fair and I can’t be bothered checking) have even questioned whether they are fit to be a teacher.

And of course it’s possible to challenge someone’s opinion. If someone suggests the world is flat or the moon landings are a hoax, those are opinions but it’s perfectly possible to challenge those opinions and show they are nonsense. In fact I’m challenging your opinion that it’s not possible to challenge opinions! Which must prove it’s possible.

In short, play the ball; not the man/girl.

But you know this perfectly well.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Well at least you didn’t say “he started it!!”, which is progress of a sort I suppose (or maybe you did?).

Of course you can claim he’s a political agitator (although the same claim could be made about anyone who posts on the political thread) but you do much more than that. You attack Cat personally. Some people (not sure whether you have to be fair and I can’t be bothered checking) have even questioned whether they are fit to be a teacher.

And of course it’s possible to challenge someone’s opinion. If someone suggests the world is flat or the moon landings are a hoax, those are opinions but it’s perfectly possible to challenge those opinions and show they are nonsense. In fact I’m challenging your opinion that it’s not possible to challenge opinions! Which must prove it’s possible.

In short, play the ball; not the man/girl.

But you know this perfectly well.
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But whatabout Cat's lack of compassion!
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Well at least you didn’t say “he started it!!”, which is progress of a sort I suppose (or maybe you did?).

Of course you can claim he’s a political agitator (although the same claim could be made about anyone who posts on the political thread) but you do much more than that. You attack Cat personally. Some people (not sure whether you have to be fair and I can’t be bothered checking) have even questioned whether they are fit to be a teacher.

And of course it’s possible to challenge someone’s opinion. If someone suggests the world is flat or the moon landings are a hoax, those are opinions but it’s perfectly possible to challenge those opinions and show they are nonsense. In fact I’m challenging your opinion that it’s not possible to challenge opinions! Which must prove it’s possible.

In short, play the ball; not the man/girl.

But you know this perfectly well.
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Look, I've no problems admitting I've questioned his fitness to be a teacher.
But again, you're missing the exact same point I made.
Cat's perfectly entitled to his viewpoints - that's the ball - but questioning his motives means I have to challenge the man.Why shouldn't I be able to say I believe he is far left extremist, he's made exactly the same accusations about posters on here being on the far right.Perhaps your own political persuasions fail to notice that!
Look, I've made my point, my problem here isn't with Cat, it's with the moderator who has censored my right to reply.
 
I think a lot of English people would have said they had worked as a slave years ago.
Working in the mills, down mines etc
Levi501 said:
The statue should’ve gone years ago. David Olusoga was interviewed earlier, being a Bristol resident and halfway through the series ‘ A House through Time’ set in Bristol for this series. Definitely recommend it to anyone interested in social history, excellent viewing.
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I gave up on it Levi when, describing how one of the rooms was used for schooling he actually apologized the fact that the class was made up of males. This is history, some of what we read or see we will not like , but the fact is it happened. We have to deal with that.
 
I can identify with why the protesters pulled his statue down, but agree that it could be put in a museum in Bristol to show future generations what this guy did.
He was a merchant and went into slavery which we now know is wrong.
He also set up many charitable foundations (a little like Pablo Escobar giving back to to the people) so good came from bad!!!
I understand that the statue had to come down, just not like it did.
I would also suggest that some of the charities that he founded are closed down as we cant have it both ways can we!!
 
I lived in Bristol for a while

Every time I went past the bust of the black poet Alfred Fagon in St Pauls I felt sick.

This statue was a personal affront to my heritage.

I'm thinking of going back to Bristol, throwing a rope around it, pulling it down and chucking it in the harbour.

Will the police be ok with this?
 
Ollygon said:
I lived in Bristol for a while

Every time I went past the bust of the black poet Alfred Fagon in St Pauls I felt sick.

This statue was a personal affront to my heritage.

I'm thinking of going back to Bristol, throwing a rope around it, pulling it down and chucking it in the harbour.

Will the police be ok with this?
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Why did you feel sick? - please expand.
Sorry to piss on your bonfire but the police are currently identifying the people involved and it sounds like they will be charged with criminal damage.

www.bbc.co.uk

Edward Colston: Bristol slave trader statue 'was an affront'

But the prime minister describes the toppling of Edward Colston's statue as a "criminal act".
www.bbc.co.uk

So if you did do what you have suggested you would be arrested and charged with criminal damage - that is if you weren't stopped by the general public first. Why don't you try it and see what happens?
 
Wizzerboy said:
I can identify with why the protesters pulled his statue down, but agree that it could be put in a museum in Bristol to show future generations what this guy did.
He was a merchant and went into slavery which we now know is wrong.
He also set up many charitable foundations (a little like Pablo Escobar giving back to to the people) so good came from bad!!!
I understand that the statue had to come down, just not like it did.
I would also suggest that some of the charities that he founded are closed down as we cant have it both ways can we!!
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Obviously we can’t change history, and Bristol like Liverpool became a wealthy city through this horrendous trade. A museum on the lines of the International Museum of Slavery in Liverpool would benefit the city, though I expect other museums will probably feature this part of their history. Pity you gave up on the house through time over one small point, this is the third of his series on this theme, the others being Liverpool and Newcastle, thoroughly enjoyable imo.
Wizzerboy said:
I can identify with why the protesters pulled his statue down, but agree that it could be put in a museum in Bristol to show future generations what this guy did.
He was a merchant and went into slavery which we now know is wrong.
He also set up many charitable foundations (a little like Pablo Escobar giving back to to the people) so good came from bad!!!
I understand that the statue had to come down, just not like it did.
I would also suggest that some of the charities that he founded are closed down as we cant have it both ways can we!!
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I wonder why the Police have "deliberately" toned down any response to these marches (with a few exceptions of course) and politicians have come out with the "everyone has a right to protest".statements. We all knew there would be outbreaks of violence etc which would grab the headlines.
Still it detracts from the Governments failure on testing figures, the mess that is Track n Trace and the introduction of this 14 day quarantine malarkey............
 
"Colston’s legacy and memory has been honoured in Bristol for centuries, and his name is seen on streets and buildings throughout the city. His statue stood on Colston Avenue, as does Colston Tower; Colston Hall is located on Colston Street; Colston’s Day is celebrated on 14 November, when Colston buns are eaten. A number of schools also bear his name."

Bit of a problem for the people of Bristol then?
 
Greeno said:
Lewis Hamilton now inciting wanton destruction, asking which statue next. Must be hard to decide which one to pick from Monaco.
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He's just announced that he's not going to skulk in his Tax Haven anymore.

He's coming back to the UK, he's going to pay tax like the rest of us, he's going to sell his diamond earrings, and he's going to donate all of his wealth to black charities.

His hypocrisy is breathtaking, but not surprising.
 
Levi501 said:
Obviously we can’t change history, and Bristol like Liverpool became a wealthy city through this horrendous trade. A museum on the lines of the International Museum of Slavery in Liverpool would benefit the city, though I expect other museums will probably feature this part of their history. Pity you gave up on the house through time over one small point, this is the third of his series on this theme, the others being Liverpool and Newcastle, thoroughly enjoyable imo.
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Mrs Wizzerboy enjoys the series Levi, I'm just cured that when you watch certain programs the PC angle nearly always rears its head.
Anyone with a modicum of common sence knows what happened in history and it is for them to decide if it was right or wrong.
Anyone with a modicum of decency already knows.
 
Wizzerboy said:
Mrs Wizzerboy enjoys the series Levi, I'm just cured that when you watch certain programs the PC angle nearly always rears its head.
Anyone with a modicum of common sence knows what happened in history and it is for them to decide if it was right or wrong.
Anyone with a modicum of decency already knows.
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Wiz, we all have different angles on topics, it’s the lifeblood of AVFTT obvs. 👍
 
20togo said:
Oh indeed we do. Free speech and all that. Oh hang on a mo.
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😂 How can your right to free speech be being infringed if your post (that’s the one I’m replying to) is showing? And I see you’re also on the old site complaining you’re being persecuted, the victim of a left wing witch-hunt. 😂 😆

The mods have told me before to stop teasing Scara but you don’t hear me continually mithering about it, or alleging there’s a right wing conspiracy to silence me do you? No you don’t!

Frankly I thought you were made of sterner stuff, but currently you’re drifting dangerously close to “Big Girl’s Blouse” territory.

Shocking!!
 
Mexboroseasider said:
😂 How can your right to free speech be being infringed if your post (that’s the one I’m replying to) is showing? And I see you’re also on the old site complaining you’re being persecuted, the victim of a left wing witch-hunt. 😂 😆

The mods have told me before to stop teasing Scara but you don’t hear me continually mithering about it, or alleging there’s a right wing conspiracy to silence me do you? No you don’t!

Frankly I thought you were made of sterner stuff, but currently you’re drifting dangerously close to “Big Girl’s Blouse” territory.

Shocking!!
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"
"persecuted" is way over the top but clearly you say that to get a re-action so👍.

I tend to think I'm just making my point be that subtly or not. I'll repeat it if you want as I like to labour a point.
Big girls blouse territory is for those that can't stand the heat. Not sure that's something you could ever accuse me of. I don't run away from questions,debate or challenges. Never have never will.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
😂 How can your right to free speech be being infringed if your post (that’s the one I’m replying to) is showing? And I see you’re also on the old site complaining you’re being persecuted, the victim of a left wing witch-hunt. 😂 😆

The mods have told me before to stop teasing Scara but you don’t hear me continually mithering about it, or alleging there’s a right wing conspiracy to silence me do you? No you don’t!

Frankly I thought you were made of sterner stuff, but currently you’re drifting dangerously close to “Big Girl’s Blouse” territory.

Shocking!!
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The last post you sent me told me to Fuck off Because I upset your gentle sensibilities.
 
Yes History is history, and you can't change what happened, by throwing a statue in the dock. Some things are there to remind us not to go down that route again. We still keep Auschwitz open to remind us what can happen if things get out of control. I agree that maybe the statue should have gone into a museum a long time agao.
 
groundsman said:
Plenty of dickheads on Twitter saying its not vandalism because of who he was ( I had never heard of him). Perhaps we could smash up Deepdale and then just post on social media its not vandalism due to not liking PNE? This lot weren't protesting, they were exercising anarchy.
I was in Lytham today and there was a perfectly safe and well respected protest attended by a few hundred. They didn't try and smash the town up.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1269657093893742597
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Were the 1989 crowds in Berlin, Warsaw, Budapest, Prague and elsewhere 'dickheads' because they tore down statues of Lenin, Stalin and Marx? What about the crowds that demolished statues of Saddam Hussein in Iraq? History since ancient times has involved people showing their disdain for past glories by demolishing statues, when those glories are shown to be wrong.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
History since ancient times has involved people showing their disdain for past glories by demolishing statues, when those glories are shown to be wrong.
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So, Deliberate destruction and theft of cultural heritage that has been conducted by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant is fine then?
 
Mr Tangerine Man said:
So, Deliberate destruction and theft of cultural heritage that has been conducted by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant is fine then?
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I don't believe that state-sponsored terrorism or that carried out by armies comes under the same banner as demonstrations by the people. Why, do you think that?
 
Wonder what would have happened if Owen Oyston had erected a statue to himself outside Bloomfield Road (not that he would have paid for one himself)

Personally I think the statue should be recovered and put in a museum because its now become a part of this Country’s history and the events surrounding it will be an indicator to future generations who will probably look back in amazement that such a person was commemorated and that it took so long for it to be removed - that way the past hasn’t been erased and shows how society has changed
 
Is the statue of ‘Bomber’ Harris still in Dover?
I always thought it was a slap in the face of our German visitors, when the first thing they see on leaving the ferry port was a statue of the man who orchestrated the killing of thousands of their innocent civilians.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Were the 1989 crowds in Berlin, Warsaw, Budapest, Prague and elsewhere 'dickheads' because they tore down statues of Lenin, Stalin and Marx? What about the crowds that demolished statues of Saddam Hussein in Iraq? History since ancient times has involved people showing their disdain for past glories by demolishing statues, when those glories are shown to be wrong.
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OK then like I said, shall we all mass outside Deepdale and smash the ground up due to our dislike for PNE? Isn't that our view point, our freedom of speech, our rights as Blackpool fans?
 
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