England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 v Italy 🇮🇹 Euro Final 🏆 Official Thread 11.07.21

20togo said:
Best post of the whole Euros that straiters.
As you say why shouldn't Lineker have his say. He's a fan like us and he's much more than that as well. Agree about TTA too but would Southgate have given him much game time? Not so sure. And your key point is about Sterling. Technically in tight spaces he comes up well short. Blistering pace one on one but when it requires better ball control when surrounded by two or three defenders he's not good enough. And that has always been the case and is why Italy comfortably coped with him last night. He's had a good successful lengthy spell scoring plenty of goals but their are flaws to his game and as you say at 26 they aren't gonna be resolved.
Rice for me probably had his best game of the tournament last night but at this point in time him and Phillips are a long way from being the dominant defensive foundation that we need.
And one more on Southgate. So far in this tournament he's been pretty pro-active. Last night wasn't the case. It was puzzling to see his failure to re-act to what seemed obvious what needed to be done.
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Southgate wouldn't have given TAA game time. He's just too scared of us being carved open and it's clear to see the brilliant defensive cover Walker offers. TAA's injury was the best thing that could have happened for GS as it took the debate off the table.
 
Interesting he didn't want Grealish to take that 5th pen.

For me you always have your best penalty taker going 5th.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Interesting he didn't want Grealish to take that 5th pen.

For me you always have your best penalty taker going 5th.
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Our best penalty taker took our first. No issue with that as it gets you on the board. Beyond that it's really a lottery. Let's not forget that Jorginho has scored loads and is considered a real master of the art. And he missed...
 
straightatthewall said:
Our best penalty taker took our first. No issue with that as it gets you on the board. Beyond that it's really a lottery. Let's not forget that Jorginho has scored loads and is considered a real master of the art. And he missed...
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You could be out before your 5th pen is even taken, so a potential waste of good pen saving the best till last.
 
to sum up for me, Southgate is the man in charge and that's not gonna change. He's got just over a year to get the balance right. To some extent because of results you could say he got away with it up til last night but last last night there seemed to be a whole host of errors including the starting line up. No problem with going with wing backs but I'm not sure there's anything he could say which could justify starting Mount in the position he did. And then his decision making just got worse. But he will know that too and he'll be his own harshest critic.
 
20togo said:
to sum up for me, Southgate is the man in charge and that's not gonna change. He's got just over a year to get the balance right. To some extent because of results you could say he got away with it up til last night but last last night there seemed to be a whole host of errors including the starting line up. No problem with going with wing backs but I'm not sure there's anything he could say which could justify starting Mount in the position he did. And then his decision making just got worse. But he will know that too and he'll be his own harshest critic.
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Think that's fair comment. He said last night that he took responsibility as he chose the penalty takers. With power comes responsibility and all that.

I also think he'll reflect on what's happened and learn from it, and we'll be better for it too.

It's like with most 'debates' on here. Some have decided they don't like him, so pile in when we finally lose and decry the efforts to get there in order to justify their original stance. Seen it time and time again with various players and managers.
 
While I don't think we should settle for second best, I think we need to take a step back sometimes. We were in unchartered territory for England in the euros, and did far far better than we normally do. The players performed, but just fell a little short at the end. I agree with someone's earlier comment that it's in our nature to look for something to blame, but maybe it's less about anything we did wrong and more that Italy just have a better team right now with the belief that a three year run brings (think 'pool in 2010 where I felt we could've beaten anyone to win promotion). It's all ifs and buts. We could've been more adventurous but that might've meant losing in 90, we just don't know. GS will have learnt a lot last night, as will the players.

Also, a lot has been made of home advantage and how we'll never get a better chance - something I disagree with. Since 1980, Italy, Germany, England, Portugal and France have all hosted the euros and not one has won while hosting (France won in 1984 but didn't while hosting in 2016). It isn't easy to win a home tournament. Brazil didn't win the world cup while hosting in 2014, and Germany didn't win the world cup when they hosted in 2006. In fact, whenever a footballing 'heavyweight' hosts a major tournament, more often than not they don't actually win it.

Before this tournament i'd have said it's unlikely i'll ever see us win something, but now i'd say these players do have what it takes. They were all excellent, and I hope they remember this disappointment and use it as motivation at the World cup. I liked our players reactions actually; they didn't just look disappointed they were visibly annoyed/angry at losing imo. That's how you should be if you want to win things. Can't wait for the world cup now.
 
While I fundamentally disagree with Qatar hosting the next World Cup, the advantage for England is that nobody will have the home turf advantage from the teams who can conceivably win it.
 
Wizaard said:
While I fundamentally disagree with Qatar hosting the next World Cup, the advantage for England is that nobody will have the home turf advantage from the teams who can conceivably win it.
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There will also be no time zone issues or 'end of season fatigue' to consider. Not that I would say any of those things makes or any more or less likely to win it.
 
Wizaard said:
Think that's fair comment. He said last night that he took responsibility as he chose the penalty takers. With power comes responsibility and all that.

I also think he'll reflect on what's happened and learn from it, and we'll be better for it too.

It's like with most 'debates' on here. Some have decided they don't like him, so pile in when we finally lose and decry the efforts to get there in order to justify their original stance. Seen it time and time again with various players and managers.
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Will he learn? It didn't feel like he learnt from the Croatia experience. I'm not for changing the manager but he needs to see where he's going wrong and I think it's not hard to see really. In his defence, we don't currently have the midfield players to compete with the best midfields. He deals with that by going ultra defensive, but it hasn't worked against the teams with a clearly stronger midfield. He reverted fully to type on Sunday and sat on his hands, and made an unholy mess of the penalties. I don't see an obvious replacement for him though, and I think it's tweaking that's needed, not a new start. Bring someone in to work with him on developing a better balance.
 
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