France Again (you couldn’t make it up)

But at no point do you ever seem to defend out actions. Your second post on the thread was to criticise the UK.
I don't defend our actions. Gunboat diplomacy is 19th century nonsense.

If we'd let them sail in, they'd make their point and leave. No harm done. It's like calling in water cannon at football protests, a total over reaction.

And you're still wrong about automatic promotion🤣 and at no time have you acknowledged your error.
 
So it wasn't the French govt threatening to cut of the electricity to Jersey then? That is the French govt that are part of the EU are they not? Like i said you didn't think things through in your haste to knock the UK. That's all you ever do isn't it? .
The British Government have been ignoring previous peaceful protests to resolve this Brexit-made problem and so when asked what more France could do, it noted that Jersey was dependent on France for its electricity. So instead of seeking to resolve the problem, the British government sent in the gun boats. I don't think that will help keep the lights on.
 
I don't defend our actions. Gunboat diplomacy is 19th century nonsense.

If we'd let them sail in, they'd make their point and leave. No harm done. It's like calling in water cannon at football protests, a total over reaction.

And you're still wrong about automatic promotion🤣 and at no time have you acknowledged your error.
I think i did if you check back.
 
Ever since Brexit, the French have done anything they can to undermine us, from moaning about fishing waters to making it difficult receiving merchandise from us.
Also, although we pay them to intercept migrants, they continue shepherding them to halfway across The Channel until they get to our waters.
I really wish we had never built the Channel Tunnel.
 
Ever since Brexit, the French have done anything they can to undermine us, from moaning about fishing waters to making it difficult receiving merchandise from us.
Also, although we pay them to intercept migrants, they continue shepherding them to halfway across The Channel until they get to our waters.
I really wish we had never built the Channel Tunnel.
Brexit was always going to turn co-operation into conflict. This is the result.
 

Excellent article, written by someone in the know and not tory supporters advocating war....
 
Brexit was always going to turn co-operation into conflict. This is the result.
I don’t think that’s a reason not to leave is it. Just because the French will instigate stunts like this instead of following official negotiations when they aren’t getting their own way.
Would you advocate not leaving a bad marriage because your ex partner threatens to thump you after the divorce ?
Should we have just accepted the status quo just through fear of someone else’s unreasonable actions as a way of punishing us for making our own choices and choosing independence?
 
I don’t think that’s a reason not to leave is it. Just because the French will instigate stunts like this instead of following official negotiations when they aren’t getting their pen way.
Would you advocate not leaving a bad marriage because your ex partner threatens to thump you after the divorce ?
I suggest you read the article I posted above before branding the French as instigating stunts, its not that simple and (believe it or not) the UK govt is particularly good at instigating stunts of its own.
 
I suggest you read the article I posted above before branding the French as instigating stunts, its not that simple and (believe it or not) the UK govt is particularly good at instigating stunts of its own.
There are an awful lot of cunning stunts in politics.
 
I’ve read the article. A French government MP threatening to turn off Jerseys electricity was the first step out of the sequence of events that was aggressive and intentional and out of step with protocols. Even if those protocols were overly bureaucratic and cumbersome.
Again , my argument was really to BHOK that this instance doesn’t mean in anyway that we should have voted to remain ‘ just incase. ‘
 
I suggest you read the article I posted above before branding the French as instigating stunts, its not that simple and (believe it or not) the UK govt is particularly good at instigating stunts of its own.

An anti-Boris view of one person so not really an authoritative statement. Nevertheless, he makes a correct observation that "French fishers take more naturally to protest than paperwork".

His more significant observation is that Jersey cocked up by "issuing the new licences on a Friday afternoon and leaving the out-of-office on for the long weekend, having not informed the French of any changes beforehand. This probably wasn’t helped by the fact that apparently any paperwork was submitted to Normandy, who submitted it to French officials, who submitted it to UK officials, who sent it on to Jersey, a process that clearly has absolutely no room for error. Since writing this, I discovered that Brussels is also apparently in this conga line of bureaucracy." So, basically, a Jersey cock-up hindered by UK and EU bureaucracy.
 
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There are an awful lot of cunning stunts in politics.
There is, but the narrative it's the French that shoulder all the blame is frankly bullshit, but its conveniently lapped up by too many on these shores. Critical thinking has gone, the education system has failed. Despite the whiff of stench and corruption that surrounds the tory party, vast swathes of the population still believe literally anything they are told by them. Literally anything!
 
I’ve read the article. A French government MP threatening to turn off Jerseys electricity was the first step out of the sequence of events that was aggressive and intentional and out of step with protocols. Even if those protocols were overly bureaucratic and cumbersome.
Again , my argument was really to BHOK that this instance doesn’t mean in anyway that we should have voted to remain ‘ just incase. ‘
You've conveniently omitted the bit where we suddenly claimed the territorial waters. One MP threatened isn't the same as the French govt did. My MP could threaten China with all sorts of aggressive overtones, so what?
 
You've conveniently omitted the bit where we suddenly claimed the territorial waters. One MP threatened isn't the same as the French govt did. My MP could threaten China with all sorts of aggressive overtones, so what?
We didn’t claim these waters during this stand off did we ? We claimed them as part of the legal process during negotiations.
 
We didn’t claim these waters during this stand off did we ? We claimed them as part of the legal process during negotiations.
Jersey have clearly been a victim of brexit despite not having a vote and not being in the EU. The UK using an arcane law to claim the waters, is underhand particularly when fisherman's plight throughout the UK has suffered badly post brexit.
 
once again Shandy shows how much he loathes this country. Anything and everything to put the country down. Disgusting.
 
I’ve read the article. A French government MP threatening to turn off Jerseys electricity was the first step out of the sequence of events that was aggressive and intentional and out of step with protocols. Even if those protocols were overly bureaucratic and cumbersome.
Again , my argument was really to BHOK that this instance doesn’t mean in anyway that we should have voted to remain ‘ just incase. ‘
We could have left the EU and stayed in the Single Market and 90% of the problems the UK is being hit with wouldn't exist. The UK was more powerful and successful in the EU so not sure the bad marriage suggestion is a good analogy. It's looking like going it alone means we are now getting beaten up in thousands of different areas by thousands of different self-interested parties, Jersey fishing just being the latest example.
 
We negotiated legally throughout the Brexit process and stood alone to do this against all the other member states.
You can’t blame the U.K. for every single outcome that doesn’t take your fancy.
You laughed when we lost parts of the negotiations and you seethe at the parts we won.
Was always going to be thus.
 
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We negotiated legally throughout the Brexit process and stood alone to do this against all the other member states.
You can’t blame the U.K. for every single outcome that doesn’t take your fancy.
You laughed when we lost parts of the negotiations and you seethe.
Was always going to be thus.
That was always going to be the case because it was our decision to leave, and Boris' dealings around the Irish border werent legal.
 
We could have left the EU and stayed in the Single Market and 90% of the problems the UK is being hit with wouldn't exist. The UK was more powerful and successful in the EU so not sure the bad marriage suggestion is a good analogy. It's looking like going it alone means we are now getting beaten up in thousands of different areas by thousands of different self-interested parties, Jersey fishing just being the latest example.
My analogy is that fear of unfair repercussions shouldn’t have dissuaded us from choosing to leave.
I’m glad it didn’t. I voted to remain but am now glad we chose to leave because of the constant one dimensional harping on by some remainers who won’t accept the democratic choice of the people of the U.K.
 
My analogy is that fear of unfair repercussions shouldn’t have dissuaded us from choosing to leave.
I’m glad it didn’t. I voted to remain but am now glad we chose to leave because of the constant one dimensional harping on by some remainers who won’t accept the democratic choice of the people of the U.K.
Democracy has continued to move on since then so it's about the problems being caused right now and those we are on course to hit in the next decade or so. When a pilot of a plane or captain of a ship sees a storm ahead, they take corrective action to navigate a better route, not just keep going in the blind faith things don't get too bad.
 
Democracy has continued to move on since then so it's about the problems being caused right now and those we are on course to hit in the next decade or so. When a pilot of a plane or captain of a ship sees a storm ahead, they take corrective action to navigate a better route, not just keep going in the blind faith things don't get too bad.
I’m sure the U.K. will attempt to do that as much as all the EU states will do 👍
 
We could have left the EU and stayed in the Single Market and 90% of the problems the UK is being hit with wouldn't exist. The UK was more powerful and successful in the EU so not sure the bad marriage suggestion is a good analogy. It's looking like going it alone means we are now getting beaten up in thousands of different areas by thousands of different self-interested parties, Jersey fishing just being the latest example.
Thousands? Go on then name them.
 
Cher President Macron Regarding the situation in Jersey I have three words Special Air Service so no more nonsense there‘s a good chap Best regards B Johnson Esq
 
once again Shandy shows how much he loathes this country. Anything and everything to put the country down. Disgusting.
Once again I point out some fact, you then revert to type by not debating the points and descend into childish name calling. Hate this country, not at all. Hate this lying shambles of a govt, yes. Grow up or stick to the football side of the forum.
 
Once again I point out some fact, you then revert to type by not debating the points and descend into childish name calling. Hate this country, not at all. Hate this lying shambles of a govt, yes. Grow up or stick to the football side of the forum.
You simply never have anything positive to say.
 
You simply never have anything positive to say.
I don't see many positives in this current government and the direction that this country has gone politically. That's fair enough isn't it?
Let's put the tired and lazy argument to bed about me hating this country?
 
Napoleon Bonaparte died 200 years ago this week a “ nation of shopkeepers “ indeed he should have stuck around for another century or so
 
Not often I get a ton on here but to get well over two ton. 😮

You just don’t realise how many people are anti Great Britain these days and moan about anything. 🇬🇧
 
Brexit was always going to turn co-operation into conflict. This is the result.
Why? If the Eu are the grownups as you seem to think, then they should acknowledge democracy. We held a democratic referendum and the people voted to leave. Because they don’t like it, doesn’t mean they should engage in conflict, instead they should be doing everything they can to make it work for their citizens and ours.
 
An anti-Boris view of one person so not really an authoritative statement. Nevertheless, he makes a correct observation that "French fishers take more naturally to protest than paperwork".

His more significant observation is that Jersey cocked up by "issuing the new licences on a Friday afternoon and leaving the out-of-office on for the long weekend, having not informed the French of any changes beforehand. This probably wasn’t helped by the fact that apparently any paperwork was submitted to Normandy, who submitted it to French officials, who submitted it to UK officials, who sent it on to Jersey, a process that clearly has absolutely no room for error. Since writing this, I discovered that Brussels is also apparently in this conga line of bureaucracy." So, basically, a Jersey cock-up hindered by UK and EU bureaucracy.
The article seems like a realistic view to me. Unfortunately, the anti EU/French brigade on here won’t believe that the UK, or anyone associated with them, can do any wrong!
 
Why? If the Eu are the grownups as you seem to think, then they should acknowledge democracy. We held a democratic referendum and the people voted to leave. Because they don’t like it, doesn’t mean they should engage in conflict, instead they should be doing everything they can to make it work for their citizens and ours.
The current spat is between France and Jersey/U.K. The involvement of the EU is peripheral.
 
I was replying to “Brexit was always going to turn cooperation into conflict, this is the result “
Well that statement is correct as well.

The point is that Brexit was all about “kicking over the bricks”. I remember those exact words being used before the referendum.

If you “kick over the bricks” then you can’t really be surprised if there are implications and repercussions. Whichever country or bloc of countries is responsible for starting the particular spat that’s getting everyone het up in any particular week.

Specifically on this spat I was just addressing the claim that the EU was directly involved. It isn’t. It’s between France and Jersey with the U.K. being pulled in.
 
Well that statement is correct as well.

The point is that Brexit was all about “kicking over the bricks”. I remember those exact words being used before the referendum.

If you “kick over the bricks” then you can’t really be surprised if there are implications and repercussions. Whichever country or bloc of countries is responsible for starting the particular spat that’s getting everyone het up in any particular week.

Specifically on this spat I was just addressing the claim that the EU was directly involved. It isn’t. It’s between France and Jersey with the U.K. being pulled in.
Yes of corgis is France, not the Eu, but the original post blamed Brexit. France appears to be engaging in revenge conflict at the temerity of th U.K. to vote to leave.
 
Yes of corgis is France, not the Eu, but the original post blamed Brexit. France appears to be engaging in revenge conflict at the temerity of th U.K. to vote to leave.
Well I’m not sure “blame” is necessarily the best word. But it’s clearly a consequence of Brexit. That’s indisputable. If Brexit hadn’t happened then things would have just trundled on as before and none of this would have happened.

As for who is to “blame” for the current spat you should read the article posted earlier. French Fishermen have had their livelihoods put in jeopardy and aren’t happy. (And so have Fishermen in Jersey and the U.K.) This particular spat started with the licences issued with conditions attached (or not issued) by the Jersey government. The French were then at fault by escalating with the threat re electricity (although that might just have been a gobby French MP rather than the actual government position) and obviously with the blockade. And sending naval patrol boats (both sides) didn’t help much either.

Especially when the withdrawal agreement has a dispute mechanism included.

But back to the original point. So far the involvement of the EU is peripheral.
 
What? You mean the French Navy turned up; bossed it; and everyone including the RN went home?

That’s a bit of an edgy take on it Jaffa if you don’t mind me saying. Not sure it’ll go down well on here to be honest.
I mean exactly what I say apologies if you don’t understand it.
A peaceful protest was made by the French trawler men with both countries having warships in the area, at the end of the day no harm was done by either side so everyone went home happy.
Yes even the French as they got their meeting with the Jersey fisheries commission even though they thought they didn’t achieve much.
 
Well I’m not sure “blame” is necessarily the best word. But it’s clearly a consequence of Brexit. That’s indisputable. If Brexit hadn’t happened then things would have just trundled on as before and none of this would have happened.

As for who is to “blame” for the current spat you should read the article posted earlier. French Fishermen have had their livelihoods put in jeopardy and aren’t happy. (And so have Fishermen in Jersey and the U.K.) This particular spat started with the licences issued with conditions attached (or not issued) by the Jersey government. The French were then at fault by escalating with the threat re electricity (although that might just have been a gobby French MP rather than the actual government position) and obviously with the blockade. And sending naval patrol boats (both sides) didn’t help much either.

Especially when the withdrawal agreement has a dispute mechanism included.

But back to the original point. So far the involvement of the EU is peripheral.
One doth protest too much.
 
Jersey should have sorted this. Their waters - their fishing rights. Everyone else should feck off.
Unfortunately, Jersey is being bullied by their huge neighbour, preventing them from “sorting it”. Which is why their big brother has turned up to back them.

If this was the 19thC, France would have invaded by now. If it had not been for the Battles of the Nile and Trafalgar Old Boney would have done so. So, it is perhaps somewhat anachronistic that the Channel Islands have survived historically as independent countries.

Which is giving the French the hump. We will have resolutions in the United Nations if they carry on like this. I did say immediately after Brexit that the Royal Navy would need a lot more coastguard cutters.
 
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