If you are blaming Appleton then you are an idiot

Qblock said:
Why does anyone have to be to blame? Yes we’ve lost two matches (and I went to Rotherham and was shocked by how bad we were) that looked a good opportunity to pick up points. But why when we lose a game of football do we straight away start talking about people losing their jobs?
Maybe lower mid table/relegation fight is where we are as a club at the moment?
Maybe we have an owner who, wealthy as he is, can’t afford the initial investment to buy the club, the clean up operation after the previous owners, the signings to get us out of league one, the £30/£40 million investment that must be made in a fit for purpose training ground and completed stadium AND an ongoing bankrolling of the quality of player who would help us be a better team at this level?
I think that’s where we are, and I’d suggest people get used to it for a couple of seasons. If we can stay in this division, or even better be competitive in this division, whilst the owner puts things in place that will allow the club to sustain itself for the medium term, then I’m happy.
That’s not to say Appleton is a great appointment ( we don’t know yet) or that there aren’t lessons to be learnt in terms of recruitment, but a lot of fans (or those self entitled ones on here) need to have a look at themselves. You seem to be very good at spending other millionaires money for them, which is probably why you’re not millionaires.
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Oh fuck off with your level headed, sensible nonsense, there’s no place for it on this board!! 😂
 
AngelBFC said:
Would never have left Bolton

Those who thought he would are deluding themselves
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Exactly. Because it sounds like he is a honourable man 're his contract and relationship with their Chairwoman and board. Which is to be admired tbh. Even if it is Bolton !.
 
AngelBFC said:
Would never have left Bolton

Those who thought he would are deluding themselves
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Evatt was verbally offered the position before Critchley and wanted the job; after the club rescinded the offer it is no surprise that Evatt would never work again for BFC under the current regime.

Such a shame, had Evo been appointed, he would have been afforded time to succeed and the fans would have been totally behind him. As it is, we have an unpopular manager who is not only unsuccessful, he is playing a brand of football that is crap to watch and totally contradictory to his alleged attacking philosophy.

I still think he should be given time, but if things haven't improved by Xmas then we need to let him go before relegation is inevitable. I hope he turns it around but don't think he has the desire nor the backing to succeed.
 
Philbfctrois said:
Nope i just thought it was a wrong appointment due to his lack of experience

As it proved
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Really, promotion was a bad thing then? Some of your posts regarding Critchley were far worse than a lot of the posts regarding Appleton's misgivings - far worse.
 
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AngelBFC said:
The dislike of Michael Appleton on here is bizarre.

I just cannot see what’s wrong with him.

What’s he done wrong ?

Nothing .

I agree with the headline of this thread .
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Rosenior perhaps?

A lot of posters thought LR was a shoo-in for the job, so when that didn't happen the assumption was that LR had turned us down and Appleton was second choice, and he continues to be viewed in that light.
 
He may well prove to be to blame, but not yet. I mean how can you blame someone for something that's not their doing? He's putting up with 2/3 years of totally bad windows, where the core problems haven't been addressed meaning he couldn't bring in the players he wanted.

and before anyone says 'we bid over a mill for the Oxford geezer', we didn't actually sign him, nor imo did we ever intend to. It was just for show. All big bids have been.

Our level is targets that look good on you tube in an U23 game or the EFL trophy.

I like the kids brought in, but they aren't going to be sort of indepth team player we need. Someone like Charly P should be told to do what you're good at and not worry too much if it doesn't come off as we have another 9 to cover for you. I fear we are in 'no Charly P don't lose the ball there and if you do track back'. The creativity will be at risk of being stiffled before it gets chance to flourish.

None of that is MA's fault.

A 4 year deal, I mean what were the powers thinking off? That's total madness, stupidity or something far worse......
 
fcblackpool said:
He may well prove to be to blame, but not yet. I mean how can you blame someone for something that's not their doing? He's putting up with 2/3 years of totally bad windows, where the core problems haven't been addressed meaning he couldn't bring in the players he wanted.

and before anyone says 'we bid over a mill for the Oxford geezer', we didn't actually sign him, nor imo did we ever intend to. It was just for show. All big bids have been.

Our level is targets that look good on you tube in an U23 game or the EFL trophy.

I like the kids brought in, but they aren't going to be sort of indepth team player we need. Someone like Charly P should be told to do what you're good at and not worry too much if it doesn't come off as we have another 9 to cover for you. I fear we are in 'no Charly P don't lose the ball there and if you do track back'. The creativity will be at risk of being stiffled before it gets chance to flourish.

None of that is MA's fault.

A 4 year deal, I mean what were the powers thinking off? That's total madness, stupidity or something far worse......
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I don't think we've had 2/3 years of bad windows, we've had some failures but many have been decent and served a purpose, helped us achieve our goals.
 
JJpool said:
I don't think we've had 2/3 years of bad windows, we've had some failures but many have been decent and served a purpose, helped us achieve our goals.
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But they've been on good length contracts, some still are and the budget doesn't stretch forever. Clogged up.
 
Hazi said:
What utter drivel
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Yeah no way was it some setup, otherwise Oxford would have to be in on it, bit of a gamble to risk that, on the off chance Oxford might break their wage structure to keep him, all so we can look like were making bids.

I don’t get this complete mistrust, we've tried to make the signings, the problem is not the will to make them but the wage structure is low for the division, making good signings with more than 1 option more difficult.
 
JJpool said:
The majority have served us well so far, even this window there has been good signings, but just a few holes.
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Of course there have been good ones.
Dougall was v good, not so now, but in the good category.
Gabrial- good
Yates- Good
Lavery- Good
carey- probably will be good soon
Bowler - good
Grimmy- good
Epo -good
Keogh -good, but not the issue now he's gone
Anderson- hot and cooler
Cj- Can be hotish, but can be tepid
Madine- no way should he have got a new contract.
Virtue- new contract and loaned out with us paying part of the wages.
Thorniley- was/is good, but loaned paying his wages for a while (SL?)

Hardie- loaned out (paying wages again) after paying a fee until sold
Sarkic- didn't kick a ball, are we still paying his wages?
Nuttall- garbage and still paying
Lubala- as above
Robson- as above
Dale- as above
Kirk- lucky escape after agreeing a fee
James- garbage and still paying
garbutt- garbage
Mitchell- paid his wages for too long.

Casey, Tharme- who knows? Emmerson too.

And don't get me started on Stweart.

There's a lot of wasted money still being paid to some of these.

There are some I've probably missed both good and bad.

Edit Beesley and Wright- injured
 
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JJpool said:
Yeah no way was it some setup, otherwise Oxford would have to be in on it, bit of a gamble to risk that, on the off chance Oxford might break their wage structure to keep him, all so we can look like were making bids.

I don’t get this complete mistrust, we've tried to make the signings, the problem is not the will to make them but the wage structure is low for the division, making good signings with more than 1 option more difficult.
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Wasn't it Karen Brady who told Karl Oyston 'If you haven't got the money, don't go shopping' or somert like.
 
fcblackpool said:
Of course there have been good ones.
Dougall was v good, not so now, but in the good category.
Gabrial- good
Yates- Good
Lavery- Good
carey- probably will be good soon
Bowler - good
Grimmy- good
Epo -good
Keogh -good, but not the issue now he's gone
Anderson- hot and cooler
Cj- Can be hotish, but can be tepid
Madine- no way should he have got a new contract.
Virtue- new contract and loaned out with us paying part of the wages.
Thorniley- was/is good, but loaned paying his wages for a while (SL?)

Hardie- loaned out (paying wages again) after paying a fee until sold
Sarkic- didn't kick a ball, are we still paying his wages?
Nuttall- garbage and still paying
Lubala- as above
Robson- as above
Dale- as above
Kirk- lucky escape after agreeing a fee
James- garbage and still paying
garbutt- garbage
Mitchell- paid his wages for too long.

Casey, Tharme- who knows? Emmerson too.

And don't get me started on Stweart.

There's a lot of wasted money still being paid to some of these.

There are some I've probably missed both good and bad.

Edit Beesley and Wright- injured
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Some of the ones you mention have served a purpose, Garbutt not that good now but got us out of league 1, where he looked good.

Lubala a weird situation, not really the clubs fault.

Hardie probed he was decent, just never got a chance here.

Etc etc.

So the majority have worked alright or served a purpose.

Don't forget loans too, of the loans only Williams has looked shaky, the others look quality.

Someone did the full list and we got most right,with some obvious failures.

This window we did well in some respects, but missed some key areas and experience.
 
NewburyOne said:
No I can't, it's just an excuse. Do we not have a development squad? Did we not loan out players? He's a fraud and needs giving the boot. Lincoln didn't want him, our players don't want him, not even all the board wanted him, yet because 1 man alone did, we are supposed to accept it? Rotherham was a disgrace, Millwall in many ways was worse. Get rid now before he completely undoes all the good work before him.
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I don't know how you can know what the players want , unless you talk to them all. So it makes me doubt the rest of your comments.
 
fcblackpool said:
Wasn't it Karen Brady who told Karl Oyston 'If you haven't got the money, don't go shopping' or somert like.
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Doesn't matter who said it it doesn't mean we under Sadler are making false bids.

We've just not closed deals doe to wages mainly I'd imagine.
 
haggertyf said:
If Appleton is a better manager than Critchley then surely Critchley's signings would be playing better than they are now, but to me if anything they are playing worse so far this season
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I think that is a very fair point but I guess it could be argued that Critchleys recruits were for a different system and maybe dont suit the new tactics...at times it looks like we have 11 strangers playing for the first time...Appleton needs to turn things around and the next 6 games are not easy...
Norwich at home(tough in anyones book)
Sunderland away(take a point now)
Watford at home (not easy but a game that we could do with winning)
Sheff Utd (won there last season but would be happy with a point)
Hull at home...(no such thing as a must win game at this early point of the season but this does look an important game and anything less than 3 points would be disappointing)
PKE at home...(inconceivable we lose this one)

The truth is zero points out of these 6 games and its curtains for Appleton...win all 6 and he is in great shape...somewhere between those extremes is probably the likely answer and a 9 point return would be fine and ought to be achievable. The performances are not particularly important as points make prizes but I would say if we lose the next 3 or 4 then the manager will be under the cosh and we will need to beat Hull and PKE.

I want him to succeed and will hold judgement until after the next six...fingers crossed.
 
fcblackpool said:
Of course there have been good ones.
Dougall was v good, not so now, but in the good category.
Gabrial- good
Yates- Good
Lavery- Good
carey- probably will be good soon
Bowler - good
Grimmy- good
Epo -good
Keogh -good, but not the issue now he's gone
Anderson- hot and cooler
Cj- Can be hotish, but can be tepid
Madine- no way should he have got a new contract.
Virtue- new contract and loaned out with us paying part of the wages.
Thorniley- was/is good, but loaned paying his wages for a while (SL?)

Hardie- loaned out (paying wages again) after paying a fee until sold
Sarkic- didn't kick a ball, are we still paying his wages?
Nuttall- garbage and still paying
Lubala- as above
Robson- as above
Dale- as above
Kirk- lucky escape after agreeing a fee
James- garbage and still paying
garbutt- garbage
Mitchell- paid his wages for too long.

Casey, Tharme- who knows? Emmerson too.

And don't get me started on Stweart.

There's a lot of wasted money still being paid to some of these.

There are some I've probably missed both good and bad.

Edit Beesley and Wright- injured
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Go through the squad list of any professional club, particularly one that has moved into a higher division, and you'll find the same, unfortunately not all signings work out, and not all of them can adapt to playing at a higher level.
 
JJpool said:
Doesn't matter who said it it doesn't mean we under Sadler are making false bids.

We've just not closed deals doe to wages mainly I'd imagine.
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The reason why the deal isn't been done is not that important. The deal doesn't get done for financial reasons. You and I know that if you're bidding a million for a player he's not going to accept5K a week- he'll want a wage commensurate with his fee.

So knowing you cannot compete with the likely wage demands, why go in for him? It makes no sense.
 
JJpool said:
Some of the ones you mention have served a purpose, Garbutt not that good now but got us out of league 1, where he looked good.

Lubala a weird situation, not really the clubs fault.

Hardie probed he was decent, just never got a chance here.

Etc etc.

So the majority have worked alright or served a purpose.

Don't forget loans too, of the loans only Williams has looked shaky, the others look quality.

Someone did the full list and we got most right,with some obvious failures.

This window we did well in some respects, but missed some key areas and experience.
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I left the loans ot because I'm talking about building a core that loans will add too; not replace the core.

It's the fact we are still paying out for dross (loans or here) that restricts wages in the market. Players who aren't up to it given long contracts.
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
I don't know how you can know what the players want , unless you talk to them all. So it makes me doubt the rest of your comments.
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Actions speak louder than words, the last 4 performances have been abject. I include the win against Huddersfield. I don't see a happy camp, I see players lacking in coaching, belief and energy. It's clear he feels he needs more allies within the team as there's no way we should be looking at the likes of Bridcutt.
 
So where in the o/p obvious expertise in all things football management [sic] does leadership come? Forget who’s not here - he has this team and they do not seem motivated. The preparation of a team to go on a pitch is down to the head coach / manager. That is clearly lacking. Trying to infer that the head coach has no responsibility here is a moronic argument. Not the person - the argument.

But then calling anyone who has an alternative point of view an idiot is clearly ok on a reasoned debate isn’t it. Actually no it’s not it’s another example of a small, narcissistic personality.
 
fcblackpool said:
The reason why the deal isn't been done is not that important. The deal doesn't get done for financial reasons. You and I know that if you're bidding a million for a player he's not going to accept5K a week- he'll want a wage commensurate with his fee.

So knowing you cannot compete with the likely wage demands, why go in for him? It makes no sense.
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Brannagan from all accounts was getting a pay rise and was happy with it, its just he got a better offer we didn't want to match.

Not sure why you'd be so cynical of SS and the board, they aren't the Oystons, even if they don't get it all right.
 
fcblackpool said:
I left the loans ot because I'm talking about building a core that loans will add too; not replace the core.

It's the fact we are still paying out for dross (loans or here) that restricts wages in the market. Players who aren't up to it given long contracts.
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There has been some dross, any more than some other clubs though?

When we're going for potential gems of the future you're going to get some that work and some that don't, even some that could but don't fit us.
 
TANGERINETOWERPOWER said:
I think that is a very fair point but I guess it could be argued that Critchleys recruits were for a different system and maybe dont suit the new tactics...at times it looks like we have 11 strangers playing for the first time...Appleton needs to turn things around and the next 6 games are not easy...
Norwich at home(tough in anyones book)
Sunderland away(take a point now)
Watford at home (not easy but a game that we could do with winning)
Sheff Utd (won there last season but would be happy with a point)
Hull at home...(no such thing as a must win game at this early point of the season but this does look an important game and anything less than 3 points would be disappointing)
PKE at home...(inconceivable we lose this one)

The truth is zero points out of these 6 games and its curtains for Appleton...win all 6 and he is in great shape...somewhere between those extremes is probably the likely answer and a 9 point return would be fine and ought to be achievable. The performances are not particularly important as points make prizes but I would say if we lose the next 3 or 4 then the manager will be under the cosh and we will need to beat Hull and PKE.

I want him to succeed and will hold judgement until after the next six...fingers crossed.
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I want him to succeed as well,but I was at Millwall and it felt like Paul Ince was back in charge
 
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JJpool said:
There has been some dross, any more than some other clubs though?

When we're going for potential gems of the future you're going to get some that work and some that don't, even some that could but don't fit us.
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What's the saying? Fit your own oxygen mask before helping others. We need players for the here and now, not kids who look good on you tube. Once the bulk of the team is competitive, then you look to the future.
JJpool said:
Brannagan from all accounts was getting a pay rise and was happy with it, its just he got a better offer we didn't want to match.

Not sure why you'd be so cynical of SS and the board, they aren't the Oystons, even if they don't get it all right.
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Not being cynical of SS. He's a bloke with a finite budget. It's the people around him I don't trust as far as I could throw them.

On CB, 3 windows. That's a lot of agent talking time.

The bottom line is if you want to stay in this league you have to compete. You'll only survive for so long doing otherwise.
 
fcblackpool said:
What's the saying? Fit your own oxygen mask before helping others. We need players for the here and now, not kids who look good on you tube. Once the bulk of the team is competitive, then you look to the future.

Not being cynical of SS. He's a bloke with a finite budget. It's the people around him I don't trust as far as I could throw them.

On CB, 3 windows. That's a lot of agent talking time.

The bottom line is if you want to stay in this league you have to compete. You'll only survive for so long doing otherwise.
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I've already said we've left some key areas lacking this time and had some failures, also haven't got the experience I'd hoped, bit we have still got some good talent. The argument you made was the last 2/3 years windows were shit, which was not right as we achieved promotion and stayed up, so the players we had worked.

Moving onto the next level is where we've struggled with permanent signings as its harder to get better talent with our budget.
 
JJpool said:
I've already said we've left some key areas lacking this time and had some failures, also haven't got the experience I'd hoped, bit we have still got some good talent. The argument you made was the last 2/3 years windows were shit, which was not right as we achieved promotion and stayed up, so the players we had worked.

Moving onto the next level is where we've struggled with permanent signings as its harder to get better talent with our budget.
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OK , you win
 
Andrew_Preview said:
So where in the o/p obvious expertise in all things football management [sic] does leadership come? Forget who’s not here - he has this team and they do not seem motivated. The preparation of a team to go on a pitch is down to the head coach / manager. That is clearly lacking. Trying to infer that the head coach has no responsibility here is a moronic argument. Not the person - the argument.

But then calling anyone who has an alternative point of view an idiot is clearly ok on a reasoned debate isn’t it. Actually no it’s not it’s another example of a small, narcissistic personality.
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Its quite simple to me

Appleton wanted several players that for whatever reason he's been unable to bring in to suit his system and style of play

Appleton hasn't been able to play his preferred formation due to a lack of personal

And that isnt the fault of the head coach

The club also decided to 'cash in' on Bowler and we have created very little since

Selling Bowler on the last day of the window was an awful bit of business, as its proving

So for all your sly comments and personal attacks you are just fcuking wrong
 
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NewburyOne said:
Bullshit Ben didn't choose to play 5 at the back, Connolly as a wing back and coach the players. We look disorganised, confused and lacking in the basics. Yes, the recruitment was poor but to suggest Appleton shouldn't share the blame is idiotic. He's dull, uninspiring and lacks integrity and his reign can't end soon enough for me.
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Bullshit Ben contributed to him having to play 3 centre halves for failing to land any of the Head Coaches central midfield targets
 
Philbfctrois said:
Bullshit Ben contributed to him having to play 3 centre halves for failing to land any of the Head Coaches central midfield targets
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Appleton inherited a squad that more than held its own last season, a happy camp of players who worked hard for the shirt. A team that weren't always the best to watch but were organised and had a plan. What I see now is a shadow of that team, players who looked every inch Championship level no longer do. Grimshaw, Ekipeteta, Garbriel to name 3. You can keep banging on about the summer transfer window all you like, a good manager is able to coach and organise a team, we clearly don't have a good manager.
 
NewburyOne said:
Actions speak louder than words, the last 4 performances have been abject. I include the win against Huddersfield. I don't see a happy camp, I see players lacking in coaching, belief and energy. It's clear he feels he needs more allies within the team as there's no way we should be looking at the likes of Bridcutt.
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I see a totally different picture . I see Yates and Lavery running their socks off . I see Eccy at the back making great last ditch tackles . I see Grimmy pulling off some unbelievable saves and I see all the New signings trying to impress . I also see a midfield short of creativity and a Canadian who could have got us some points at Millwall thinking he can score everytime without passing the ball to unmarked strickers.
 
NewburyOne said:
Appleton inherited a squad that more than held its own last season, a happy camp of players who worked hard for the shirt. A team that weren't always the best to watch but were organised and had a plan. What I see now is a shadow of that team, players who looked every inch Championship level no longer do. Grimshaw, Ekipeteta, Garbriel to name 3. You can keep banging on about the summer transfer window all you like, a good manager is able to coach and organise a team, we clearly don't have a good manager.
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We have lost our best player are you conveniently forgetting about that to push your agenda against the head coach

We also had an abysmal end to the season
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
I see a totally different picture . I see Yates and Lavery running their socks off . I see Eccy at the back making great last ditch tackles . I see Grimmy pulling off some unbelievable saves and I see all the New signings trying to impress . I also see a midfield short of creativity and a Canadian who could have got us some points at Millwall thinking he can score everytime without passing the ball to unmarked strickers.
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Ekipeteta hasn't even got close to the levels of last season.

Gabriel has been very poor.

Yes Yates and Lavery are running their socks off but they are hardly pulling up trees creating or scoring. Headless chickens with very little meaningful service probably sums it up best.

Everyone just wants to blame Williams but the truth is most players have been poor. Now that can't all be down to Appleton but the defensive formations are, the lack of organisation is and during the last 2 games he's been woeful at spotting games drifting away from us.

I fully accept the board will give him time to shape the team but that doesn't mean to say we all have to agree with it. Tactically we are way below the levels of last season and getting worse, a good coach can make a difference, we don't have one of those though.
 
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