Labour Party as Dead as Disco

Costero Poderoso said:
Which labour style policies did Blair implement?
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Minimum wage. devolution, Freedom of Information Act, open borders (which was the right thing to do but sowed the seeds of discontent in Labour's heartlands).

Overshadowed by his pretty far right policies of NHS privatisation, public service reforms, anti terror laws, illegal wars, tuition fees and generally being a proper cnut.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Minimum wage. devolution, Freedom of Information Act, open borders (which was the right thing to do but sowed the seeds of discontent in Labour's heartlands).

Overshadowed by his pretty far right policies of NHS privatisation, public service reforms, anti terror laws, illegal wars, tuition fees and generally being a proper cnut.
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And, whatever your political stripe, he reduced NHS waiting lists drastically, and waiting time to see your GP.
 
Corbyn for his (many) flaws was principled and ‘honest’. Starmer is principled and seems fairly honest. You don’t win a fist fight in the gutter without being able to scrap. The Tories understand that, and will use any means they can to win. Labour at the moment will moan about how unfair it is. They need to get into the gutter and start swinging (insert image or joke about Starmer’s terrible boxing, although Khan looked like he was fairly competent on the ring).
 
Yep, Corbin was honest, hence the 80 seat majority. Total pleb.
 
Seaside Aggro said:
Corbyn for his (many) flaws was principled and ‘honest’. Starmer is principled and seems fairly honest. You don’t win a fist fight in the gutter without being able to scrap. The Tories understand that, and will use any means they can to win. Labour at the moment will moan about how unfair it is. They need to get into the gutter and start swinging (insert image or joke about Starmer’s terrible boxing, although Khan looked like he was fairly competent on the ring).
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Nope, they need some policies
 
bfcpete said:
The original Gang of Four were experienced big hitters. The current crop of politicians (of all parties) are far less respected and capable.
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The SDP we’re doing remarkably well in the opinion polls within 12 months of forming from memory but again from memory were a bit torpedoed when the Falklands kicked off and Thatch steamed in
 
Ragnarok said:
Been thinking about it a bit more and he might actually have been a union leader rather than an MP. Just remember him being interviewed a few times outside Westminster. Maybe pierce was hiding in the bushes to whisk him away
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He might’ve been the guy in charge of the London Fire Brigades Union? Name escapes me for the moment.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I agree about Starmer but do we know what the government stands for?

It's all a race to the bottom right now, ** shambles the lot of them, it's Labour's responsibility to hold the government to account over their obvious corruption but all Starmer can do is look a bit like a slightly harassed middle manager on his way to parents evening.
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My thoughts entirely. I am struggling to see how anyone on this thread can raise the energy to praise either party?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
That's what I meant. There is not a single person of their calibre in Parliament on the opposition benches
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And the SDP, with their big hitters, failed.

Which sort of means a new centrist party is a non starter surely?

Stuck with Labour as the alternative party of opposition I’m afraid until we get PR.
 
Bloodtangerine said:
I still don’t understand it but bear in mind this is a a man who lost control of his own Farm to a bunch of animals so he can’t have been that bright can he

Blondey Candy Floss Good

Wallpaper Posery Bad
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Blood you are aware that this knock will be scrubbed off the record book for match fixing (too many posts by the O/P)? 😁
 
Mexboroseasider said:
New parties always start well. And then they meet reality. Or “Events” as per Harold McMillan.
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True, I suppose the only option is for a New New Labour, basically an entirely new party under an old name. they need to find someone as electable as Blair, I never liked him but the guy was an election winning machine.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
And the SDP, with their big hitters, failed.

Which sort of means a new centrist party is a non starter surely?

Stuck with Labour as the alternative party of opposition I’m afraid until we get PR.
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I would argue that their leaving and setting up a new party forced Labour down the modernising route, as they saw the loss of their broad appeal. Labour took a long time to deal with their extremists, Kinnock and Smith both sweated blood to leave an electable party. I am still not sure Blair would have won if the Tabloids were not so keen to expose Tory corruption. Murdoch switched, Blair and Brown proved to be highly competent, and continued to win, improving the economy, and reducing debt. Whether it was socialism lite or Tory Lite, it was seen by the electorate at the time as fairer, with a broad appeal.

You could also argue that, despite the ideological dominance of the Eton Old Boys and their extreme agenda, the reality through the pandemic has been closer to socialism than anything Labour would have dared. You have pointed out many times furlough is about protecting businesses, but it has been spun as protecting ordinary citizens. The NHS, by necessity, has had the support of which it has been deprived for eons, public workers have been seen by the public as heroes.

I still think the corruption stories have a way to run, at some point it will get too much, and Boris will be sacrificed. There will then be a battle between the two wings of the Tory party for dominance.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
I would argue that their leaving and setting up a new party forced Labour down the modernising route, as they saw the loss of their broad appeal. Labour took a long time to deal with their extremists, Kinnock and Smith both sweated blood to leave an electable party. I am still not sure Blair would have won if the Tabloids were not so keen to expose Tory corruption. Murdoch switched, Blair and Brown proved to be highly competent, and continued to win, improving the economy, and reducing debt. Whether it was socialism lite or Tory Lite, it was seen by the electorate at the time as fairer, with a broad appeal.

You could also argue that, despite the ideological dominance of the Eton Old Boys and their extreme agenda, the reality through the pandemic has been closer to socialism than anything Labour would have dared. You have pointed out many times furlough is about protecting businesses, but it has been spun as protecting ordinary citizens. The NHS, by necessity, has had the support of which it has been deprived for eons, public workers have been seen by the public as heroes.

I still think the corruption stories have a way to run, at some point it will get too much, and Boris will be sacrificed. There will then be a battle between the two wings of the Tory party for dominance.
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Yeah I agree with that. But a new centrist party - is its role to replace Labour or knock it onto a new course? Bearing in mind that if they are competing for the same votes doesn’t that ensure Tory hegemony?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
I would argue that their leaving and setting up a new party forced Labour down the modernising route, as they saw the loss of their broad appeal. Labour took a long time to deal with their extremists, Kinnock and Smith both sweated blood to leave an electable party. I am still not sure Blair would have won if the Tabloids were not so keen to expose Tory corruption. Murdoch switched, Blair and Brown proved to be highly competent, and continued to win, improving the economy, and reducing debt. Whether it was socialism lite or Tory Lite, it was seen by the electorate at the time as fairer, with a broad appeal.

You could also argue that, despite the ideological dominance of the Eton Old Boys and their extreme agenda, the reality through the pandemic has been closer to socialism than anything Labour would have dared. You have pointed out many times furlough is about protecting businesses, but it has been spun as protecting ordinary citizens. The NHS, by necessity, has had the support of which it has been deprived for eons, public workers have been seen by the public as heroes.

I still think the corruption stories have a way to run, at some point it will get too much, and Boris will be sacrificed. There will then be a battle between the two wings of the Tory party for dominance.
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Always an ever new explanation for a Labour defeat and an invented forward dated reason why it will be different next time zzzz
 
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