Liar

[gjr69]

Well to me, that sounds as if it's all about what you want. You had plans but have now had to change them, so I get you're not happy.
But as you said it's what the majority voted for and even though you don't like it you just have to get on with it. Because being in a permanent state of anger over it, is not gonna do you any good, nor is it gonna get you anywhere.

I'm not a selfish person pal if that's what you are getting at. I think taxes should be paid and we should look after those less fortunate and I put my money where my mouth is in my own small way. I also think the UK as a whole would be better and could see no tangible gains to leaving. I knew there would be a tangible loss to me and my family and some of my friends and that obviously pisses me off a bit more.
And anger is very rare for me I'm a bit more like Sergeant Wilson in Dads Army, I'm chilled and a little bit world weary and a bit sceptical of the motives of the people in charge.

 

[20togo]

I'm not a selfish person pal if that's what you are getting at. I think taxes should be paid and we should look after those less fortunate and I put my money where my mouth is in my own small way. I also think the UK as a whole would be better and could see no tangible gains to leaving. I knew there would be a tangible loss to me and my family and some of my friends and that obviously pisses me off a bit more.
And anger is very rare for me I'm a bit more like Sergeant Wilson in Dads Army, I'm chilled and a little bit world weary and a bit sceptical of the motives of the people in charge.

No not saying that at that at all, but just making the point that we all consider how it affects us individually.
We've a long way to go to see what the implications and benefits are and of course Covid has had a massive effect so it is gonna be along time before we are able to separate that issue and being out of the EU has on us as a nation. i do expect though that some on here will conveniently forget about the effect Covid has had on all aspects of us as a nation to deliberately make criticisms with regards to Brexit.

 

[gjr69]

No not saying that at that at all, but just making the point that we all consider how it affects us individually.
We've a long way to go to see what the implications and benefits are and of course Covid has had a massive effect so it is gonna be along time before we are able to separate that issue and being out of the EU has on us as a nation. i do expect though that some on here will conveniently forget about the effect Covid has had on all aspects of us as a nation to deliberately make criticisms with regards to Brexit.

You are right Covid casts a fog over everything and we will not really know the effects of Brexit in isolation until that fog clears, but I'm pretty sure people like Rees-Mogg, Farage and Ratcliffe etc. didnt have my best interests at heart when they took the country down this path.

 

[Newholland]

Well as he played a big part in spreading the lie that we would be better off out of the EU then not really.
I actually don't hold him as accountable as the 52% of people who voted for it. They all have brains yet fell for all the lies and have now gained what?
He has pleased his rich benefactors and will live a full and happy life when he tires of being PM, might even spend a lot of time on his backers yachts and staying in their villas, a tangible benefit for him.
Yet what do most of us get, nothing! Voting for that is perverse, 52% of the population can now be classified as perverts!

another pro remain condescending **!!

 

[gjr69]

another pro remain condescending **!!

Another aggressive dick head irrespective of views and opinions!
I said people thought about it and voted a certain way which is their choice.
Some people say that all who voted for it are thick, I don't think that, I think nationally we made a bad choice but we all have to live with it.
The outcome doesn't appear to have made you very happy, why so bothered about what a loser like me thinks?

 

[BlackpoolsFinest]

No, I mean that there are only so many ways a poster can say the same thing and the fact that the OP gives each post a different title doesn't deflect from the monotonous repetition. This time, he's actually condemning the PM for reducing the armed forces, an expense which he has criticised in the past.

And yet despite all the animosity from the noisy minority the country is heavily swinging towards the view that Boris is the best leader. If the general election was today, Boris would walk it again. If he's so bad, and he's a persistent liar, why is it that he's so popular with the electorate?

You answered your own question.

 

[Tangojoe]

If the general election was today, Boris would walk it again. If he's so bad, and he's a persistent liar, why is it that he's so popular with the electorate?

Blackpool's Finest:
You answered your own question.


I didn't answer my question and nobody else has either, but I'll venture an opinion on why the PM's popularity is rocketing. Here are a few reasons

1. There's no credible alternative leader in any political party

2. His handling of the vaccine roll out has been impeccable

3. People are beginning to realise what a bunch of scheming, underhand, incompetent twats some of the EU leaders are and that the voters' decision to exit was the right one.

 

[Newholland]

Another aggressive dick head irrespective of views and opinions!
I said people thought about it and voted a certain way which is their choice.
Some people say that all who voted for it are thick, I don't think that, I think nationally we made a bad choice but we all have to live with it.
The outcome doesn't appear to have made you very happy, why so bothered about what a loser like me thinks?

You blame 52% for your altered retirement plans, you call 52% perverts....less than 3 months into a monumental change you Know it is a bad choice... you claim I’m unhappy with my decision. Unless you can see into the future or are a mind reader I stand by my post.

 

[EPM46]

The title of this thread is “Liar”. It’s not about whether the Government are right or wrong to reduce the size of our armed forces, but it is about what the “Bumbling Fool” said in November 2019. Another lie to add to the many others he has uttered in his career. He was even sacked from the Cabinet by Michael Howard for telling bare faced lies!
If you are happy to have a Prime Minister who is a compulsive liar, then crack on, but I am not, and I reserve the right to criticise and call him out whenever it is appropriate!

 

[gjr69]

You blame 52% for your altered retirement plans, you call 52% perverts....less than 3 months into a monumental change you Know it is a bad choice... you claim I’m unhappy with my decision. Unless you can see into the future or are a mind reader I stand by my post.

If you read the post I was responding to maybe mine makes more sense, I probably should have put a winking emoji to make it clear my last sentence was tongue in cheek.
I do not think 52% of British people are perverts, that figure obviously refers to the Germans

 

[Wizaard]

No not saying that at that at all, but just making the point that we all consider how it affects us individually.
We've a long way to go to see what the implications and benefits are and of course Covid has had a massive effect so it is gonna be along time before we are able to separate that issue and being out of the EU has on us as a nation. i do expect though that some on here will conveniently forget about the effect Covid has had on all aspects of us as a nation to deliberately make criticisms with regards to Brexit.

Just as any increase in economic output will be portrayed as a Brexit bonus and not a slight recovery from a disastrous slump caused by covid. It works both ways.

 

[Scaramanga]

The title of this thread is “Liar”. It’s not about whether the Government are right or wrong to reduce the size of our armed forces, but it is about what the “Bumbling Fool” said in November 2019. Another lie to add to the many others he has uttered in his career. He was even sacked from the Cabinet by Michael Howard for telling bare faced lies!
If you are happy to have a Prime Minister who is a compulsive liar, then crack on, but I am not, and I reserve the right to criticise and call him out whenever it is appropriate!

Think you will be waiting a long time then, they are politicians, they lie, they always have and always will regardless of who you think is your shinning light of decency.

 

[20togo]

Just as any increase in economic output will be portrayed as a Brexit bonus and not a slight recovery from a disastrous slump caused by covid. It works both ways.

Indeed it does, but it's not me that is relentlessly negative is it? But by saying what you say it sounds as if you do not want an increase in economic output so you can then claim you were proven right. So straight back at you, It works both ways, so which do you want?

 

[Wizaard]

Indeed it does, but it's not me that is relentlessly negative is it? But by saying what you say it sounds as if you do not want an increase in economic output so you can then claim you were proven right. So straight back at you, It works both ways, so which do you want?

I want separation of the facts from spin. Won't get it.

 

[20togo]

I want separation of the facts from spin. Won't get it.

Yep, deflection from you making a point which it has to be said wasn't really a good one on your part.
Spin and facts have been happening for years in politics haven't they? It's what politicians do. I remember supporting Blair and the war in Iraq.

 

[Wizaard]

Yep, deflection from you making a point which it has to be said wasn't really a good one on your part.
Spin and facts have been happening for years in politics haven't they? It's what politicians do. I remember supporting Blair and the war in Iraq.

Its not a deflection. I don't see it as a binary choice. I want the economy to recover from the covid shambles and I want the true economic picture over Brexit to be clear. They're not incompatible.

 

[gjr69]

Yep, deflection from you making a point which it has to be said wasn't really a good one on your part.
Spin and facts have been happening for years in politics haven't they? It's what politicians do. I remember supporting Blair and the war in Iraq.

The politicians that get to the top in all parties, in all countries are generally not in it for the people, one day we might all wake up to that.
As it is if they do something and it benefits you it is generally as a result of them doing something to please somebody wealthy or influential who can help them out after their political career has peaked.
Just look at Blair and Cameron.

 

[20togo]

Its not a deflection. I don't see it as a binary choice. I want the economy to recover from the covid shambles and I want the true economic picture over Brexit to be clear. They're not incompatible.

your first post was based on negativity by the fact you were looking for reasons in saying that the recovery of the economy will not be solely down to Brexit. It's like you are getting in your excuses now, which of course is what you are doing.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I think you place far too much emphasis on this issue then. Be honest with yourself, Johnson got in as PM pretty much based solely on the issue of Brexit alone coupled with any lack of clarity from Corbyn. Are you seriously trying to suggest a 9,500 reduction in our Armed Forces would have swayed millions of people who voted for Johnson.

It's one part of a whole. The narrative perpetuated by the media and swallowed by the Tory voting public is that Corbyn is a traitor who would ban nuclear weapons and leave us exposed to the filthy huns/ frogs / Ruskies (depending when your time machine lands), whilst 'battling Boris' loves our armed forces and wants to keep these 'Sacred Isles' safe from those pesky Romans, Normans, Boers, Argies (time Machine dependent).
It fits with us standing alone against the inhumane EU, with our hero Winston Johnson at the helm as we fight them on the beaches etc, etc.

 

[20togo]

It's one part of a whole. The narrative perpetuated by the media and swallowed by the Tory voting public is that Corbyn is a traitor who would ban nuclear weapons and leave us exposed to the filthy huns/ frogs / Ruskies (depending when your time machine lands), whilst 'battling Boris' loves our armed forces and wants to keep these 'Sacred Isles' safe from those pesky Romans, Normans, Boers, Argies (time Machine dependent).
It fits with us standing alone against the inhumane EU, with our hero Winston Johnson at the helm as we fight them on the beaches etc, etc.

I think that's over egging it a bit of course but that just suggests to me that you think too many of our population really are not fit to vote. Either that, or unless they agree with your politics then they shouldn't have an opinion.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I think that's over egging it a bit of course but that just suggests to me that you think too many of our population really are not fit to vote. Either that, or unless they agree with your politics then they shouldn't have an opinion.

Well, there are those of us more suited to an intellectual consideration of politics - and I include those of a right wing persuasion here. An election based on the majority of those more intelligent types would, I suggest, make for a more discerning and moderate kind of politics.

If that's what you want me to say then I can tell you...it's bollocks. Voting in a democrasy appears to be a lottery sometimes but it is always the case that an opposition has to make a case for earning votes. At the moment the message from Labour is not getting through. This does not mean that it's because the Government is doing the right things.

 

[Giro]

He can be trusted to win an election by a landslide majority
he can be trusted to oversee the best and most effective vaccine roll out in the world
he can be trusted to piss off lefties

He can also be trusted to lead the world in the highest covid death rate per capita

He can also be trusted to line the pockets of his mates with billions for a track and trace app that’s less use than an abacus, and handing PPE contracts to companies who have no previous experience in PPE.

Obviously I realise it was simply an oversight that you forgot to add them to your list?

PS He can also be trusted to say leaving the EU wasn’t in our best interests. Until of course he’s sees an opportunity to climb to the top of the greasy pole. And guess what? He does a full 180 degree turn.

A man of such morals can always be trusted, not!

 

[20togo]

Well, there are those of us more suited to an intellectual consideration of politics - and I include those of a right wing persuasion here. An election based on the majority of those more intelligent types would, I suggest, make for a more discerning and moderate kind of politics.

If that's what you want me to say then I can tell you...it's bollocks. Voting in a democrasy appears to be a lottery sometimes but it is always the case that an opposition has to make a case for earning votes. At the moment the message from Labour is not getting through. This does not mean that it's because the Government is doing the right things.

I think the fact you thought it spoke volumes, but hey no worries. As someone else above said, if it had been an increase in troops you lefties would have been all over it like a rash with your criticisms and I would say with pretty much certainty that if Labour had been in power and announced a reduction in troops you would have been applauding the decision even if it had been a u-turn. In other words, once again as like so many other issues it's about political point scoring. So rather than acknowledge and agreeing with the decision you lefties would rather call the PM a liar. Certainly in the case of the o/p'er anyway.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I think the fact you thought it spoke volumes, but hey no worries. As someone else above said, if it had been an increase in troops you lefties would have been all over it like a rash with your criticisms and I would say with pretty much certainty that if Labour had been in power and announced a reduction in troops you would have been applauding the decision even if it had been a u-turn. In other words, once again as like so many other issues it's about political point scoring. So rather than acknowledge and agreeing with the decision you'd rather call the PM a liar. Certainly in the case of the o/p'er anyway.

20s, please don't start putting words into my mouth, or into my thoughts as you also appear to be doing here.

1. I could write a convincing(ish) piece in support of any political party. The fact that I wouldn't believe it only speaks volumes about me having a fair grasp of politics and a way with words - no more than that.

2. I have posted on here more than once that I believe in increased numbers of troops (all three forces) and improved quantities & quality of equipment, better suited to a specific NATO and European-force limited role for the UK's armed forces, alongside that of home defence. I believe that this can be far better achieved by removing our reliance on a UK nuclear deterrent. Whether you agree with that or not, it is a view that I hold and would also hold if there was a Labour Government.

 

[Chunkylad]

You are right Covid casts a fog over everything and we will not really know the effects of Brexit in isolation until that fog clears, but I'm pretty sure people like Rees-Mogg, Farage and Ratcliffe etc. didnt have my best interests at heart when they took the country down this path.

The Etonians have never ever had the interest of the proles in their heart. It will always be about the rich getting richer. This is the reality of any capitalist or feudal society.
The question for all the voters out there is accepting the above to be totally correct and fact, are you personally better off feeding off the scraps thrown down or not?
(Those that believe yes will vote Tory, those who believe no will vote Labour. Those who are high on drugs and not of sound mind will cast their vote for the others)

Getting upset when the Etonians lie is futile. They always will do and say, what’s best for them. They control the capital and it’s all a game.
Choose your poison - it’ll make little difference to the Etonians, as they’ll continue to hold the power with the occasional rebellion where Labour take power for a term and spend cash to try to rebalance the system, but as a result open it back up for the Etonians to come back in and feed again.

Barring getting out the guillotines capitalism is an economic model that best feeds our natural selfish greed but leads to an inevitable conclusion of Jeff Bazos being announced as the New World Emperor.

 

[gjr69]

The Etonians have never ever had the interest of the proles in their heart. It will always be about the rich getting richer. This is the reality of any capitalist or feudal society.
The question for all the voters out there is accepting the above to be totally correct and fact, are you personally better off feeding off the scraps thrown down or not?
(Those that believe yes will vote Tory, those who believe no will vote Labour. Those who are high on drugs and not of sound mind will cast their vote for the others)

Getting upset when the Etonians lie is futile. They always will do and say, what’s best for them. They control the capital and it’s all a game.
Choose your poison - it’ll make little difference to the Etonians, as they’ll continue to hold the power with the occasional rebellion where Labour take power for a term and spend cash to try to rebalance the system, but as a result open it back up for the Etonians to come back in and feed again.

Barring getting out the guillotines capitalism is an economic model that best feeds our natural selfish greed but leads to an inevitable conclusion of Jeff Bazos being announced as the New World Emperor.

That pretty much nails it, ultimately the selfishness and greed of a handful of people will ultimately bring about the collapse of human civilisation, sad when there is so much to go round.
Most of us are guilty to some extent, I live a more comfortable life than a medieval king of England, I don't have the power to lock up, torture or behead my enemies but I'm ok with that. Meanwhile there are still billions in the world that don't get food and clean water everyday.
The world is a fucked up place and we should all be doing more to make it fairer.

 

[20togo]

Well, there are those of us more suited to an intellectual consideration of politics - and I include those of a right wing persuasion here. An election based on the majority of those more intelligent types would, I suggest, make for a more discerning and moderate kind of politics

20s, please don't start putting words into my mouth, or into my thoughts as you also appear to be doing here.

Am I? i was just going on what you put in that first quote of yours which you said in your next para was bollux.. Apologies if I've misunderstood.

 

[Davepick]

My friends in France managed to register before the due date, why couldn't the Brits in Spain?
Maybe they want to come home.
Possibly they will now whether they like it or not.
The big problem now is selling their properties. That could take years, also lower the prices.

 

[Wizaard]

your first post was based on negativity by the fact you were looking for reasons in saying that the recovery of the economy will not be solely down to Brexit. It's like you are getting in your excuses now, which of course is what you are doing.

Not at all. Let's see. The issue will be on when can we make a call. Brexiteers will be saying 'too soon' in line with JRM's 50 year forecast.

 

[Archibald Knox]

Back on subject... Historically, the Armed Forces always seem to suffer more cuts under a Conservative Government than a Labour one. OK, some of us oldies can remember the infamous TSR2 cancellation and the withdrawal from east of Suez etc, under Labour.

However, the most egregious defence cut of the 20thC was the 1981 Defence Review “Options for Change” by John Nott and Thatcher which was judged to have been extremely detrimental to the Defence of the Realm and thought to have contributed directly to the Argies’ invasion of the Falklands.

1981 Defence White Paper - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Back on subject... Historically, the Armed Forces always seem to suffer more cuts under a Conservative Government than a Labour one. OK, some of us oldies can remember the infamous TSR2 cancellation and the withdrawal from east of Suez etc, under Labour.

However, the most egregious defence cut of the 20thC was the 1981 Defence Review “Options for Change” by John Nott and Thatcher which was judged to have been extremely detrimental to the Defence of the Realm and thought to have contributed directly to the Argies’ invasion of the Falklands.

1981 Defence White Paper - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Nimrod MR4A about 50 times the cost of the TSR2 program just knocked on the head one morning billions already spent just thrown away in the big black hole.

 

[Archibald Knox]

Nimrod MR4A about 50 times the cost of the TSR2 program just knocked on the head one morning billions already spent just thrown away in the big black hole.

That was as a result of the “Strategic Defence and Security Review 2010” which was announced by the newly formed Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition in May 2010.

However, the cut-and-shut job of upgrading Nimrod with spliced fuselages and new wings/engines was always a silly idea, imho. When there were more modern off-the-shelf replacement aircraft available.

 

[Lost Seasider]

He can also be trusted to lead the world in the highest covid death rate per capita

The Czech Republic? What's that got to do with anything?

In fact if you look at excess deaths we're down in 16th place over the course of the pandemic (and likely to drop down further).

 

[20togo]

That pretty much nails it, ultimately the selfishness and greed of a handful of people will ultimately bring about the collapse of human civilisation, sad when there is so much to go round.
Most of us are guilty to some extent, I live a more comfortable life than a medieval king of England, I don't have the power to lock up, torture or behead my enemies but I'm ok with that. Meanwhile there are still billions in the world that don't get food and clean water everyday.
The world is a fucked up place and we should all be doing more to make it fairer.

The world has always been a fcuked up place since man inhabited it. I think it's far too simplistic to say we should all be doing more to make it fairer.Who is the judge on what "fairer" is?

 

[Giro]

The Czech Republic? What's that got to do with anything?

In fact if you look at excess deaths we're down in 16th place over the course of the pandemic (and likely to drop down further).

I haven’t a clue? You mentioned it, not me!

If the league tables have changed since I last looked, I’ll rephrase my comment to “one of the highest covid death rates per capita”, if it makes you feel better. It’s just semantics.

 

[gjr69]

The world has always been a fcuked up place since man inhabited it. I think it's far too simplistic to say we should all be doing more to make it fairer.Who is the judge on what "fairer" is?

Fair is people having basic sanitation, shelter, health care, food and water. Most things over and above that are luxuries to some extent.
The world used to be much less unfair before the feudal system and organised religion, our ancestors failed if they didn't work together.
Now we are all encouraged to create our own mini empires full of stuff we don't need so that a handful of people can have a biggest yacht and mansion competition.
There shouldn't be an individual judge on who decides what is fair, the better elements of human nature should do that, but too many of us buy into unfettered capitalism.

 

[Scaramanga]

Fair is people having basic sanitation, shelter, health care, food and water. Most things over and above that are luxuries to some extent.
The world used to be much less unfair before the feudal system and organised religion, our ancestors failed if they didn't work together.
Now we are all encouraged to create our own mini empires full of stuff we don't need so that a handful of people can have a biggest yacht and mansion competition.
There shouldn't be an individual judge on who decides what is fair, the better elements of human nature should do that, but too many of us buy into unfettered capitalism.

Everybody buys into unfettered capitalism

 

[gjr69]

Everybody buys into unfettered capitalism

I know. I'm not against capitalism. But it needs to be more controlled to make the world a fairer, happier and healthier place.

 

[Giro]

Everybody buys into unfettered capitalism

Capitalism, yes. Unfettered, no.

 

[gjr69]

Capitalism, yes. Unfettered, no.

We need fettered capitalism then we could all be fettlers and the world would be in fine fettle!

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Everybody buys into unfettered capitalism

Only if it comes with a flake, chocolate sauce and loads of sprinkles.

 

[Scaramanga]

Only if it comes with a flake, chocolate sauce and loads of sprinkles.

There you go 66, or another way to say it would be , a flash car, big house, and loads of dough in the bank.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

There you go 66, or another way to say it would be , a flash car, big house, and loads of dough in the bank.

On the back of millions of exploited workers on zero hours contracts, no representation, no health & safety provision and sod all by way of a safety net welfare provision from the State.
At least with mine all you need is an ice-cream van.

 

[Lost Seasider]

I haven’t a clue? You mentioned it, not me!

If the league tables have changed since I last looked, I’ll rephrase my comment to “one of the highest covid death rates per capita”, if it makes you feel better. It’s just semantics.

Czech Republic has the highest official Covid deaths per capita (strictly San Marino is higher but I've discounted them due to size), followed by Belgium, Montenegro, Slovenia, Hungary and then the UK.

In reality, based on excess mortality, there are at least another 14 countries that are likely worse off than Czechia, some of them way ahead of us (50% - 100% more), Italy almost certainly needs to be added to that list (data only goes up to 31/10) and there may be others too.

Furthermore, thanks to the vaccine programme. we now have one of if not the lowest current death rates in Europe just as Europe is starting to experience another wave of cases, thus we're likely to slip even further down the list.

 

[Eternaloptimist]

What The Cat in the Hat conveniently misses out is that we are investing in our defences.
And think about this, will we really need men on the ground when a nuclear war is declared.
Drones and all the other technical stuff are a massive thing nowadays which also negates the need for manpower, so get back in your Hat cat and bore someone else.
Oops, I’ll be accused of bullying !

 

[Giro]

Czech Republic has the highest official Covid deaths per capita (strictly San Marino is higher but I've discounted them due to size), followed by Belgium, Montenegro, Slovenia, Hungary and then the UK.

In reality, based on excess mortality, there are at least another 14 countries that are likely worse off than Czechia, some of them way ahead of us (50% - 100% more), Italy almost certainly needs to be added to that list (data only goes up to 31/10) and there may be others too.

Furthermore, thanks to the vaccine programme. we now have one of if not the lowest current death rates in Europe just as Europe is starting to experience another wave of cases, thus we're likely to slip even further down the list.

It really good to see we’ve now got a low death rate. It’s just a pity so many have died due to bad decision made in the first place.

 

[Lost Seasider]

It really good to see we’ve now got a low death rate. It’s just a pity so many have died due to bad decision made in the first place.

And there I was thinking it was a virus that caused the deaths.

Interestingly there's an article in The Telegraph that suggests being slightly late with the first lockdown may have in the end saved more lives than it cost.

 

[Giro]

Duplicate

 

[Giro]

And there I was thinking it was a virus that caused the deaths.

Interestingly there's an article in The Telegraph that suggests being slightly late with the first lockdown may have in the end saved more lives than it cost.

I hardly think it’s a subject for flippant comments. You, obviously think different?

In what way has not implementing isolation hotels, until 9 months after Australia did, contributed to saving lives?

 

[20togo]

What The Cat in the Hat conveniently misses out is that we are investing in our defences.
And think about this, will we really need men on the ground when a nuclear war is declared.
Drones and all the other technical stuff are a massive thing nowadays which also negates the need for manpower, so get back in your Hat cat and bore someone else.
Oops, I’ll be accused of bullying !

Be careful, some sneak on here will be reporting your post to the mods. These lefties like to give it out but they don't like getting it back and go crying to the mods.