Pilley guilty

AngelBFC said:
I don't wish to pish on anyone's chips here but having thought about this over the weekend it is quite possible that there will no POCA proceedings.

You see with POCA the money derived from the confiscation goes to the treasury, the courts etc and not to victims.

If the court confiscates AP's assets that money will not be available to the victims of his crime.

He could be ordered to pay compensation but this may be limited and the courts powers to enforce are fairly limited.

Its entirely possible that Trading Standards will not pursue POCA and let any victims sue via the civil courts so it may well not be as bad financially for AP as first thought.

Just my thoughts I have no idea whats actually going on.
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Not with you on this one Angel. Poca is the obvious route- as others have said it’s a reverse burden of proof, easier to go behind any transfer of assets designed to avoid it AND most importantly the threat of more years in prison if not paid AND the debt still exists even after serving more tome

None of that applies to civil enforcement, it puts the cost of suing on victims, and harder to enforce any judgement

I’d be absolutely astonished if he doesn’t get hit with a huge poca figure
 
tigger said:
Not with you on this one Angel. Poca is the obvious route- as others have said it’s a reverse burden of proof, easier to go behind any transfer of assets designed to avoid it AND most importantly the threat of more years in prison if not paid AND the debt still exists even after serving more tome

None of that applies to civil enforcement, it puts the cost of suing on victims, and harder to enforce any judgement

I’d be absolutely astonished if he doesn’t get hit with a huge poca figure
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tigger you might be right and indeed the language used on Tuesday suggests a poca

www.lep.co.uk

Fleetwood Town FC chairman Andy Pilley ‘benefitted from £15m’ from mis-sold contracts, prosecutors estimate

Disgraced Fleetwood Town owner Andy Pilley ‘benefitted from £15m’ from mis-sold contracts, prosecutors in his fraud case estimate.
www.lep.co.uk www.lep.co.uk

My point is that if the state confiscates his assets the usual course is that the proceeds are paid to the state not to victims .

There are likely to be many thousands of victims who knew or know now that they have possibly been done who trading standards may well not even know about .

If the state takes all his money does this not frustrate their potential civil action ?

I’ve just come across this article which sheds a bit further light on these types of possible scenario.

www.davidsonsforensic.co.uk

Confiscation v Compensation | Davidsons Forensic Accountants

www.davidsonsforensic.co.uk www.davidsonsforensic.co.uk

The problem of course is that I’m relying on the reporting of the case in the newspaper which has been surprisingly pretty light and I know very little about the case so I’m just speculating .
 
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Fleetwood Town can confirm Andy Pilley has stepped down as Chairman and Director of the club.

Steve Curwood, who has been the Club’s CEO for 15 years, will be appointed Interim Chairman with current Vice Chairman Phil Brown to join the board as a Director.

The Club have this week entered discussions with the EFL in relation to requirements surrounding a change of ownership and control.


The Club would also like to clarify there will be no other changes to the board before the planned change of ownership.

In the meantime, the Club will continue to operate business as usual and will make a further announcement in due course.
 
Loco said:
Fleetwood Town can confirm Andy Pilley has stepped down as Chairman and Director of the club.

Steve Curwood, who has been the Club’s CEO for 15 years, will be appointed Interim Chairman with current Vice Chairman Phil Brown to join the board as a Director.

The Club have this week entered discussions with the EFL in relation to requirements surrounding a change of ownership and control.


The Club would also like to clarify there will be no other changes to the board before the planned change of ownership.

In the meantime, the Club will continue to operate business as usual and will make a further announcement in due course.
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I'm not sure I understand that. Jamie and Melissa were appointed yesterday and have resigned today, according to Martin Calladine.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
I'm not sure I understand that. Jamie and Melissa were appointed yesterday and have resigned today, according to Martin Calladine.
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Sorry Robbie, when you mention those appointments/resignations are they just part of the change process or as a result of some sort of internal in fighting ?
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Sorry Robbie, when you mention those appointments/resignations are they just part of the change process or as a result of some sort of internal in fighting ?
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Obviously I'm only guessing. But I suspect that someone - presumably the EFL - have made it clear that a simple transfer of ownership between family members will not be satisfactory. Either that or they have forgotten about the Owners & Director's Test and jumped the gun in announcing the appointments. I doubt it's in-fighting.

I think the first explanation is more likely, but it's only an educated guess.

If the club really is up for sale that would suggest my preferred explanation is plausible. And if it is (up for sale, I mean), the first question that will be asked is "what happens to the historic debt"?

I don't think we have seen a case quite like this before.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Strange that, isn't it?
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I don't really get why you don't understand the FTFC club statement I posted?
It states who the current board members are and how they are trying to resolve what happens next with the EFL.
It's a delicate situation for the club, supporters, staff etc.
You seem to have a less supportive stance on this than other clubs in difficulty with ownership?
 
Loco said:
I don't really get why you don't understand the FTFC club statement I posted?
It states who the current board members are and how they are trying to resolve what happens next with the EFL.
It's a delicate situation for the club, supporters, staff etc.
You seem to have a less supportive stance on this than other clubs in difficulty with ownership?
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Loco said:
I don't really get why you don't understand the FTFC club statement I posted?
It states who the current board members are and how they are trying to resolve what happens next with the EFL.
It's a delicate situation for the club, supporters, staff etc.
You seem to have a less supportive stance on this than other clubs in difficulty with ownership?
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I'm saying that the latest statement is incomplete and possibly out of date, if Martin Calladine is right. He says that the two Directors who were appointed yesterday have subsequently resigned. Why that might be is a source of some speculation, but what is going in there is patently NOT business as usual.

As for being supportive - there has been a club in the town for 115 years and it has a rich history. Having watched them probably a couple of hundred times I have a lot of fondness for the club they were when was a nipper. They will have some fans who were around then and I feel for them - this situation is really rough on them in particular. I have no sympathy for the owner whatsoever. Hope that is all clear.

The whole situation is fascinating because it is a manifestation of "failure" we haven't seen in football before, as far as I know.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
I'm saying that the latest statement is incomplete and possibly out of date, if Martin Calladine is right. He says that the two Directors who were appointed yesterday have subsequently resigned. Why that might be is a source of some speculation, but what is going in there is patently NOT business as usual.

As for being supportive - there has been a club in the town for 115 years and it has a rich history. Having watched them probably a couple of hundred times I have a lot of fondness for the club they were when was a nipper. They will have some fans who were around then and I feel for them - this situation is really rough on them in particular. I have no sympathy for the owner whatsoever. Hope that is all clear.

The whole situation is fascinating because it is a manifestation of "failure" we haven't seen in football before, as far as I know.
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The statement was an hour old when I posted it.
 
Many clubs are vanity projects these days. It's sad for the town and community. That goes without saying, however peevish people want to be about Fleetwood.
 
Loco said:
It seems quite irrelevant to me if Pilley's kids are or are not classed as directors in the interim. It's an ownership issue now.
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I'd disagree with you about the relevance, but it doesn't matter as the issue is moot now, by the look of it.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
I'm saying that the latest statement is incomplete and possibly out of date, if Martin Calladine is right. He says that the two Directors who were appointed yesterday have subsequently resigned. Why that might be is a source of some speculation, but what is going in there is patently NOT business as usual.

As for being supportive - there has been a club in the town for 115 years and it has a rich history. Having watched them probably a couple of hundred times I have a lot of fondness for the club they were when was a nipper. They will have some fans who were around then and I feel for them - this situation is really rough on them in particular. I have no sympathy for the owner whatsoever. Hope that is all clear.

The whole situation is fascinating because it is a manifestation of "failure" we haven't seen in football before, as far as I know.
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Owners being wrong 'uns has happened lots of times. Looks like two L1 clubs might be reliving their derby in non league again soon 🤔
 
Martonmosser said:
Not if Jamie is allowed to buy it for the same amount first 🤔
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Won’t the EFL want proof he is able to fund the club Mosser ?

If it’s £20 million in debt and makes £2 million loss a year where’s the money coming from ?

Does he even have a job this lad ?

The police had been watching him for 5 years and applied for a football banning order against him.

He once paid a £750 fine for throwing a beer bottle at police at Holland v England match .

I’m not sure he ‘s a shoe in tbh .
 
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Martonmosser said:
Depends if you can run as a selling club I suppose, they’re miles ahead of us with their training ground, academy and youth conveyor belt aren’t they?
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Which of their players will be worth a fee ? Very few and then only nominal.

Once you take out Pilley's contributions via sponsorship and direct cash injection there is very little real revenue. Anybody buying the club will have to fund the gap between revenue and outgoings until the wage bill is brought down closer to revenue. I wouldn't be surprised if that cost is not far off the value of ground and training ground.

Fleetwood Town is not an attractive proposition to buyers wanting to get into football due to its limited capability for growth. BFC isn't also very attractive but compared to the Cods it is way ahead.
 
My prediction is that the club is heading into administration. If not now within the next 12-18 months .

Let’s face facts here . It’s already in debt it loses millions every year its owner and benefactor is in prison and likely to remain there for a significant period of time.

I do think it’s a real shame but it’s not looking good is it?

There’s no point sugar coating it they have real problems on the face of it .
 
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Ive heard tonight that fleetwood town has definitely been put up for sale. Hmmmm
Fleetwood confirmed in a statement that the club, which went from non-league to League One status under Pilley's ownership, is now up for sale.
 
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Quite interesting reading cod army chat on Facebook. There's an elephant in the room and they naively think it's business as normal and nothing will change.
 
PNENIL said:
Quite interesting reading cod army chat on Facebook. There's an elephant in the room and they naively think it's business as normal and nothing will change.
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How will nothing change when the club needs funding and it can't be from AP?
 
bollieboy said:
Which of their players will be worth a fee ? Very few and then only nominal.

Once you take out Pilley's contributions via sponsorship and direct cash injection there is very little real revenue. Anybody buying the club will have to fund the gap between revenue and outgoings until the wage bill is brought down closer to revenue. I wouldn't be surprised if that cost is not far off the value of ground and training ground.

Fleetwood Town is not an attractive proposition to buyers wanting to get into football due to its limited capability for growth. BFC isn't also very attractive but compared to the Cods it is way ahead.
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Can’t remember his name but they have a lad they sold to Villa with a massive sell on clause Andy told me. One every couple of years like him or Jamie Vardy would help a club with low overheads survive
 
Martonmosser said:
Can’t remember his name but they have a lad they sold to Villa with a massive sell on clause Andy told me. One every couple of years like him or Jamie Vardy would help a club with low overheads survive
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Would help but currently they would need to be bringing in £3m to £4a year in transfer fees to balance the books. That ain't going to happen.
 
They've got a young back-up goalie who is meant to be one to watch. Would be ace if we find ourselves in the fortunate position of being able to cherry-pick their best assets, including Poolfoot, for a song.
 
The cods are saying they’ll stick by Pilley. Also think business as usual. I don’t think they quite understand the seriousness of his situation
Also lost civil case in the high court with 2 councils Cheshire and Chester.
 
rockontommy said:
They've got a young back-up goalie who is meant to be one to watch. Would be ace if we find ourselves in the fortunate position of being able to cherry-pick their best assets, including Poolfoot, for a song.
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The club don't own Poolfoot it's one of AP's businesses so it up to him if wanting to sell, doesn't help the club one jot as it not monies on their books.

IF FTFC is for sale you've a club which has no training ground but use of one, a ground they don't own with 2 million a year operating loss and lot of Income from Pilleys companies be it BES shirt sponsorship or office rental etc.

The club is all about one person now their fucked unless he manages someway to keep the tap on.
 
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