straightatthewall
Well-known member
Should this 4 day free for all be scrapped?
NoShould this 4 day free for all be scrapped?
If I could second-guess behaviour and expect everyone to behave with caution I would say, no. However, I can't and they won't so I would be tempted to say, yes. Then again, as per Robbie, it would be impracticable to change it now.Should this 4 day free for all be scrapped?
It depends if it is a free for all. There is a large element of people having to take on some responsibility for me. With my elderly relatives, we see it as not worth the risk, so we won't be looking beyond our existing household.Should this 4 day free for all be scrapped?
I can see limits being tightened. 6 adults, excluding grown up children who live with the adults. Only immediate family, no Aunts/Uncles unless they are/were in a SB with you. No significant partners unless they live with them. Once your bubble is made, no visitors beyond that.
Good postI don't think that you can realistically stop people from visiting their families.
The problem that I have with the government's message is that it gives the impression that it is OK to mix and sort of ignore the rules for a few days. A lot of people don't need an excuse but this gives them that excuse. A better message would be to hold off, be disciplined and to have your Christmas at Easter or in the summer this year when it is safer. It seems particularly stupid given that the end may now be in sight with the vaccination programme. I expect the end of January will be some of the worst days in this pandemic and for there to be another national lockdown at this time.
Another aspect is that Xmas has been given special rules whereas other religious festivals had to suck it up. This will also lead to more rule breaking by some people who quite rightly may feel resentful.
Anyway it seems that a lot of scientists think that the government have sent the worng message but it is probably too late now. It would have been better to delay the announcement until it was clear what the situation is, it seems that it is currently worse than was expected and is getting worse as well.
Is that any different though to plans having to be changed when lockdown's were introduced or restrictions on foreign travel varied ?It could be difficult to do it without creating different problems, I suppose. If you've booked a train to visit family I don't think you'd react well to being told you couldn't do it after all.
And it's hardly a free for all if people do as they are being asked. I realise that is a very big "if".
Depends whose plans they areIs that any different though to plans having to be changed when lockdown's were introduced or restrictions on foreign travel varied ?
Yes....Is that any different though to plans having to be changed when lockdown's were introduced or restrictions on foreign travel varied ?
It’s not going to cost many lives at all...That’s total bullshitIt's going to cost many lives, maybe thousands. Is that a fair price to pay for a family Christmas? I don't think so.
It’s not going to cost many lives at all...That’s total bullshit
It’s absolutely debatable...and it has nothing at all to do with thanksgiving...that’s a complete red herring.It's not even debatable. It's exactly what happened in the USA at Thanksgiving.
You cant really say that bifster, I guess it depends on your definition of many?It’s not going to cost many lives at all...That’s total bullshit
On the basis that we now know virus transmission spreads more readily at household gatherings than in any other setting I really don't see how you can say thatIt’s absolutely debatable...and it has nothing at all to do with thanksgiving...that’s a complete red herring.
The trajectory in the US was going up anyway... I’m not convinced that Thanksgiving has really added much to that in truth... Sounds like a convenient excuse for totally shit overall management of the virus, which days back all the way to March.On the basis that we now know virus transmission spreads more readily at household gatherings than in any other setting I really don't see how you can say that
See attached as a sample of the many articles linking Thanksgiving and increases in Covid transmission https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ing-covid-19-surge-is-here-what-to-expect-now
And for those who don't want to open the link here's a taster
Two weeks after Thanksgiving, the spike on COVID-19 tracking graphs in the United States is a straight line going in the wrong direction.
The number of new cases is up more than 20 percent from 2 weeks ago.
The number of hospitalizations has increased by 21 percent.
The number of deaths has jumped 39 percent, with the United States surpassing 3,000 deaths in 1 day for the first time.
,Not really sure how you actually say that with any certainty. Ok perhaps that is in your opinion?1 day, 2 days or 5 days it won’t make a jot of difference to the number of cases or deaths. None whatsoever...
I can say that and I just have...You cant really say that bifster, I guess it depends on your definition of many?
XMAS get togethers will unfortunately lead to an increase in transmission of the virus .
Will the result be more death? YES
With regard to 3, surely that's now irrelevant. Were a sovereign state who dont care what Europe does...Yes....
1. The government has essentially committed to Christmas for some time.
2. People are fed up and CoVid weary... They need a break. There’s a significant risk that any attempt to curtail Christmas could spill over into public disorder (like we have seen in other parts of Europe)
3. Other EU countries have largely similar rules to us for Christmas. So it would be seen as unfair.
4. There’s absolutely no reason whatsoever to do it.
I don’t think you’ll ever get away from people drawing comparisons with their physical neighbours or even countries further afield. It’s human nature.With regard to 3, surely that's now irrelevant. Were a sovereign state who dont care what Europe does...
Most of what you said doesn't stand up to scrutiny but your comment above does make some sense.You’re correct that Xmas get togethers will result in more death, but there’s a lot more to consider here...
For a start, it’s going to happen anyway... So attempts to micro-manage how people interact will make no difference.
Then scrutinise it properly instead of making an off the cuff comment and provide a proper supporting argument for your perspective.Most of what you said doesn't stand up to scrutiny but your comment above does make some sense.
However, some countries are running media campaigns to encourage citizens to meet but to take the usual precautions.
I see Gemany have gone down from a 7 day xmas relaxation to 3 so their experts must feel there is some benefit on reducing the time period?I can say that and I just have...
You’re correct that Xmas get togethers will result in more death, but there’s a lot more to consider here...
For a start, it’s going to happen anyway... So attempts to micro-manage how people interact will make no difference.
Secondly, if you are essentially sticking to guidelines and maintaining a bubble, then the risk of meeting 1 day or 2 days is unlikely to be much different.
Thirdly, people aren’t, in the main, going to be meeting for all 5 of the days. They will much more likely meet for one or two days out of the five...It will just be a different two days for different families... So imho, you gain nothing at all by cutting the number of days down... Instead you just force everyone to choose the same two days.
Finally, If you did successfully isolate people with legislation at Christmas then suicide rates (already a huge issue this time of year) could increase dramatically.
I'm absolutely certain that if the UK Government changed from 5 days to 2 that it wouldn;t make any difference.. The Germans had obviously gone a bit overboard to start off with, so from there perspective perhaps reining it in was sensible... Their rules were much different to ours originally though and didn't provide many of the protections ours do.I see Gemany have gone down from a 7 day xmas relaxation to 3 so their experts must feel there is some benefit on reducing the time period?
You of course can say whatever you like
You just seem very definite in your tone.
At the end of the day you are nothing more than overly opinionated middle aged man on a football forum
So apologies but Im really not sure that qualifies you any better than others on here as the all seeing eye on covid that you purport to be .
It is impossible to be certain about things like that because you cannot run the reality twice with different conditions.I'm absolutely certain that if the UK Government changed from 5 days to 2 that it wouldn;t make any difference.. The Germans had obviously gone a bit overboard to start off with, so from there perspective perhaps reining it in was sensible... Their rules were much different to ours originally though and didn't provide many of the protections ours do.
I'll ignore the personal bullshit...You clearly have personal insecurities.
The theory is simple... The Goverment can say whatever they like, but it won't change what people choose to do at Christmas... As far as I'm concerned people sit in one of two camps.BFC I get what you sat about mismanaged response to pandemic and that at xmas people will fo as they wish
However if it's just BS why are governments all over the world tightening restrictions at great social and economic cost.
Not having pop but interested in your theories
Nah..It is impossible to be certain about things like that because you cannot run the reality twice with different conditions.
I would suggest, that reducing the days from 5 to 2 would have some effect on social mixing as some people do follow government advice. Less social mixing means less transmission. Less transmission means less hospital admission and less death. It would seem that the German government also think this is true.
Ok but yes again you simply cannot be certain.I'm absolutely certain that if the UK Government changed from 5 days to 2 that it wouldn;t make any difference.. The Germans had obviously gone a bit overboard to start off with, so from there perspective perhaps reining it in was sensible... Their rules were much different to ours originally though and didn't provide many of the protections ours do.
I'll ignore the personal bullshit...You clearly have personal insecurities.
Of course I can be certain... I’m not asking you to be certain, but I am... 100%.Ok but yes again you simply cannot be certain.
Apologies bifster if I came across personal, I suppose it was a response to your bombastic tone
Yes im sure I have insecurities, tbh I think all humans do & believe it or not that may even includes you .
Peace x
This isn't true in my experienceThe theory is simple... The Goverment can say whatever they like, but it won't change what people choose to do at Christmas... As far as I'm concerned people sit in one of two camps.
Camp 1 - They will do whatever they want at Christmas and the Government can fuck off
Camp 2 - They are acutely aware of the dangers of Covid and they will be keeping Christmas to a minimum (regadless of Government advice)