Schools closed - load of bollocks!

The issue 20's is the foresight and leadership - anyone in education over Christmas could have told you that we needed to stay closed, they should have known too with the detailed registers we've had to submit each day on reasons for staff and child absence, down to covid cases in school, close contact with a positive case outside of school etc. Boris on Sunday night was saying send the kids to school, Monday night keep them at home. There's no way in less than 24 hours the data suddenly changed. Reactive and not pro-active.
Then there's the 'world class' track and trace system etc - if we're going to make out we're world leaders, don't compare ourselves to the shortcomings of other countries.
 
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hertfordseasider said:
I stand by my original post and my reply to you. Just because other countries are making a pigs ear of it doesn't excuse us doing it too! Stop trying to get into an argument for the sake of it. If you think it is all going great, good for you, again you failed to answer any of the questions you come out with a what about these countries which I have answered, any comments on why you think we are doing things so well or so badly?

Also, this is a message board, the politics section to discuss political things, it's just a load of opinions and debate, why do you always have to make such a cock of yourself by trying to be clever?
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Where have I ever said it's going great? Don't bring things into it that I haven't said. And I ain't trying to be clever. If I was I'd be like those who think they've got all the answers. Of course it's not going great, it's a world wide disaster with millions suffering from this dreaded disease and is it now over a million deaths.
I'll repeat this is an unprecedented world wide pandemic the like of which in modern times has never hit Europe before. Was/is anyone really handling it well, does anyone really know what they are doing? Mistakes are being made, loads of them but as a country we are not alone in that. Genuinely how many people thought that after the first wave and coming out of lockdown that a second wave would hit us even harder than the first? Think most people hoped or even thought we were over the worst of it, numbers were coming down etc. Complacency setting in. Then boom! And like I keep saying, it's not just the UK is it? We're all human, living in Europe in a free world. As I said, there isn't an easy solution to this until every one is vaccinated and even then we'll be hoping it's fully effective.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
The issue 20's is the foresight and leadership - anyone in education over Christmas could have told you that we needed to stay closed, they should have known too with the detailed registers we've had to submit each day on reasons for staff and child absence, down to covid cases in school, close contact with a positive case outside of school etc. Boris on Sunday night was saying send the kids to school, Monday night keep them at home. There's no way in less than 24 hours the data suddenly changed. Reactive and not pro-active.
Then there's the 'world class' track and trace system etc - if we're going to make out we're world leaders, don't compare ourselves to the shortcomings of other countries.
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Yep, I get all that and you have my admiration in what are clearly testing times for you all. And yes, it's crazy that the decision can be one thing one day and the opposite the next. And of course that is poor leadership. I won't use the word foresight because if foresight was available to us all, then many things would be different. But, I'm also sure that you'll agree that there has also been a general voice questioning the decision to close. My point being that whatever decision is made, it will draw criticism from some quarters. On whatever issue. And that's been the case for nine months now. It's not defending the PM but I'd imagine there's people pecking in his ears 24/7 offering advice, telling him what needs to be done. And I daresay there will be so much conflicting advice in there. Who'd be him? Probably expected a cushy number once he got Brexit sorted and then this shitstorm came along. He'll be toast soon enough.
 
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20togo said:
Where have I ever said it's going great? Don't bring things into it that I haven't said. And I ain't trying to be clever. If I was I'd be like those who think they've got all the answers. Of course it's not going great, it's a world wide disaster with millions suffering from this dreaded disease and is it now over a million deaths.
I'll repeat this is an unprecedented world wide pandemic the like of which in modern times has never hit Europe before. Was/is anyone really handling it well, does anyone really know what they are doing? Mistakes are being made, loads of them but as a country we are not alone in that. Genuinely how many people thought that after the first wave and coming out of lockdown that a second wave would hit us even harder than the first? Think most people hoped or even thought we were over the worst of it, numbers were coming down etc. Complacency setting in. Then boom! And like I keep saying, it's not just the UK is it? We're all human, living in Europe in a free world. As I said, there isn't an easy solution to this until every one is vaccinated and even then we'll be hoping it's fully effective.
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Let's hope that with the nearly 12,000 pharmacies that are ready to do 1.6 million a week plus all the doctors surgeries and other centres that are going to be used that we can actually far exceed the 2 million a week. It depends if we can get the vaccinations themselves. I want this to work, everybody does, but there is overwhelming evidence that the government have been reactionary rather than pro-active, as have many other countries, but things like the schools were there for everyone to see and the way it was done was ridiculous. Like I said, just because other countries are messing it up doesn't excuse us and I have no doubt Starmer and his lot would have been just the same. I just don't rate politicians very much. Look at the USA!!!

They also have legislation to keep lockdown going to the 31st March and I think they will go to that to allow the vaccines to really be effective in huge numbers. It's about keeping the rate down and vaccinations up.
 
20togo said:
Yep, I get all that and you have my admiration in what are clearly testing times for you all. And yes, it's crazy that the decision can be one thing one day and the opposite the next. And of course that is poor leadership. I won't use the word foresight because if foresight was available to us all, then many things would be different. But, I'm also sure that you'll agree that there has also been a general voice questioning the decision to close. My point being that whatever decision is made, it will draw criticism from some quarters. On whatever issue. And that's been the case for nine months now.
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I'd agree with the fact that Boris has had a lot of different voices in his ear and it's been the hardest post-war time to be the PM. It's the dithering and constantly denying that schools have any impact on transmission when they clearly do that's got to me, along with zero warning before action was being taken. Union rumblings seem to have helped with the decision when really the science data and health experts should have helped him make the decision before Monday. They could have and should have made contingency plans since the last lock-down ie world class online provision, along with policies that ensured every school delivered the same quality. Gavin Williams is worse than a chocolate teapot.
 
My daughter's primary school head teacher has sent literally a begging letter for parents not to send their kids to school.

Unfortunately being a public sector key worker makes up a massive % of occupation for parents (including families where both parents are key workers) across the Fylde coast meaning the schools remain pretty full.

It's such a shame and a terrible predicament for both the school and the parents involved. It applies to us however I work from home therefore can home school my daughter.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
I'd agree with the fact that Boris has had a lot of different voices in his ear and it's been the hardest post-war time to be the PM. It's the dithering and constantly denying that schools have any impact on transmission when they clearly do that's got to me, along with zero warning before action was being taken. Union rumblings seem to have helped with the decision when really the science data and health experts should have helped him make the decision before Monday. They could have and should have made contingency plans since the last lock-down ie world class online provision, along with policies that ensured every school delivered the same quality. Gavin Williams is worse than a chocolate teapot.
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Yes understand and agree. Said pretty much nine months ago that mistakes would be made and it was just a case of trying to limit the severity of them. Pretty much though it's been one crisis after another and in a way because of that it's been more about re-action to them.
 
20togo said:
My point being is simply that there is no easy solution to this like you seem to think there should be. Remember it was you who said "after nearly a year..." Well after nearly a year no-one is getting it right. Oh apart from the ** know all experts on AVFTT.
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After a year you'd think someone would have put in place a plan that could be rolled out in the event of rates rising. Apparently not.
 
Macseasider said:
My daughter's primary school head teacher has sent literally a begging letter for parents not to send their kids to school.

Unfortunately being a public sector key worker makes up a massive % of occupation for parents (including families where both parents are key workers) across the Fylde coast meaning the schools remain pretty full.

It's such a shame and a terrible predicament for both the school and the parents involved. It applies to us however I work from home therefore can home school my daughter.
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Agree and sympathise with everyone in this predicament. A nightmare scenario. But as I say above there simply just isn't an easy solution to it.
 
20togo said:
Where have I ever said it's going great? Don't bring things into it that I haven't said. And I ain't trying to be clever. If I was I'd be like those who think they've got all the answers. Of course it's not going great, it's a world wide disaster with millions suffering from this dreaded disease and is it now over a million deaths.
I'll repeat this is an unprecedented world wide pandemic the like of which in modern times has never hit Europe before. Was/is anyone really handling it well, does anyone really know what they are doing? Mistakes are being made, loads of them but as a country we are not alone in that. Genuinely how many people thought that after the first wave and coming out of lockdown that a second wave would hit us even harder than the first? Think most people hoped or even thought we were over the worst of it, numbers were coming down etc. Complacency setting in. Then boom! And like I keep saying, it's not just the UK is it? We're all human, living in Europe in a free world. As I said, there isn't an easy solution to this until every one is vaccinated and even then we'll be hoping it's fully effective.
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It was 'unprecedented' a year ago (although it wasn't, just it hadn't happened to us as a nation since 1918). It's not now but we continue to make the same mistake of not planning for anything and changing our minds after backing ourselves into a corner. We all knew schools were a source of transmission. What changed in the data from Sunday night when schools were safe, to Monday night when they became a primary source?

The only thing that changed was Boris once again having to give up on his latest wheeze of pretending all was well. The science had been telling him that since September.
 
20togo said:
I thought that's what the Nightingale hospitals were erected for.
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If only we had staff to put in them, but after a decade of staff cuts to the absolute minimum and a mass decamp of EU staff, there isnt anyone.

You can build a hospital in a few days if pushed, but staff trained for intensive care takes years and there is no slack in the system.
 
Macseasider said:
My daughter's primary school head teacher has sent literally a begging letter for parents not to send their kids to school.

Unfortunately being a public sector key worker makes up a massive % of occupation for parents (including families where both parents are key workers) across the Fylde coast meaning the schools remain pretty full.

It's such a shame and a terrible predicament for both the school and the parents involved. It applies to us however I work from home therefore can home school my daughter.
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She must be at the same school as my granddaughter Mac. I read the letter and I really felt for the head. Her own personal stress was oozing out of the tone and content. It’s a shame.
It’s aimed mainly at the p takers and folk working at home and still sending their kids to school just because they are classed as key workers 👎
 
Wizaard said:
It was 'unprecedented' a year ago (although it wasn't, just it hadn't happened to us as a nation since 1918). It's not now but we continue to make the same mistake of not planning for anything and changing our minds after backing ourselves into a corner. We all knew schools were a source of transmission. What changed in the data from Sunday night when schools were safe, to Monday night when they became a primary source?

The only thing that changed was Boris once again having to give up on his latest wheeze of pretending all was well. The science had been telling him that since September.
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You looking for an argument. Firstly I did say modern times and secondly I also said it was crazy that he could say one thing one day and change to the opposite the next.
 
20togo said:
You looking for an argument. Firstly I did say modern times and secondly I also said it was crazy that he could say one thing one day and change to the opposite the next.
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I wasn't commenting exactly on what you said, just adding my two penn'orth.
 
Lala said:
She must be at the same school as my granddaughter Mac. I read the letter and I really felt for the head. Her own personal stress was oozing out of the tone and content. It’s a shame.
It’s aimed mainly at the p takers and folk working at home and still sending their kids to school just because they are classed as key workers 👎
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I felt very sorry for her Lala. Also feel sorry for the lack of guidance for her. But I personally wouldn't refer to a key worker at home being a p taker by taking their kid to school. It depends what they are doing. I struggle a lot to complete my working day with my girl there. There are parents out there with multiple children in school. But I agree they should make the sacrifice and keep them home. Most public sector employers will show a level of understanding.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Just because other countries are ** it up too, doesn't make us ** it up right, that's a ridiculous argument!

I'm interested in our country and it just shows how useless governments are all over, Politicians are a bit shit, shock horror!
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Attempting to justify this Governments actions by comparing them to another is a bit like saying, when Pool concede, it's OK because Sunderland have conceded as well. and Ipswich.
 
Macseasider said:
I felt very sorry for her Lala. Also feel sorry for the lack of guidance for her. But I personally wouldn't refer to a key worker at home being a p taker by taking their kid to school. It depends what they are doing. I struggle a lot to complete my working day with my girl there. There are parents out there with multiple children in school. But I agree they should make the sacrifice and keep them home. Most public sector employers will show a level of understanding.
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I think the idea is if you’re at home or someone is at your home then you must keep your child at home with you otherwise it defeats the idea of lockdown and stopping the spread of the virus.
Keyworkers at home couldn’t send their kids last time so this is what has caused a massive issue . It’s about keeping people at home even if you have work to do in the home, a bit of leeway on the work output front is far better than one kid spreading the virus to multiple families.
Im with the head, only key workers who have to leave their home should be putting their kids in school.
What’s the point in an adult working at home to stay safe yet sending their kids to school 👎
 
Hertsseasider said:
Attempting to justify this Governments actions by comparing them to another is a bit like saying, when Pool concede, it's OK because Sunderland have conceded as well. and Ipswich.
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Maybe tell Cat that whose one sentence statement was comparing our government to those of other countries 🤔 or it is it just 20’s who isn’t allowed to make comparisons 🙄
 
Lala said:
Maybe tell Cat that whose one sentence statement was comparing our government to those of other countries 🤔 or it is it just 20’s who isn’t allowed to make comparisons 🙄
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I think the issue is that he' only makes comparisons that makes our Government look like they're unable to act because of factors beyond their control, rather than they're a bunch of incompetents who have failed us at every turn, then refuses to acknowledge that it's not even a valid comparison, as we've more recent deaths than all the major European countries combined.
 
Lala said:
Maybe tell Cat that whose one sentence statement was comparing our government to those of other countries 🤔 or it is it just 20’s who isn’t allowed to make comparisons 🙄
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Not sure which of Cats posts you refer to but the last one had 2 sentences. One factual, one opinionated. Seems fair to me. And I'd point out you bought 20's into this.
 
So when 20s excuses Boris Johnsons negligence by saying that It's the same in France and Germany he should be allowed to get away with such an untruth when the reality is that it is so much worse here!
 
Wizaard said:
I think the issue is that he' only makes comparisons that makes our Government look like they're unable to act because of factors beyond their control, rather than they're a bunch of incompetents who have failed us at every turn, then refuses to acknowledge that it's not even a valid comparison, as we've more recent deaths than all the major European countries combined.
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I think the bias posting applies both ways Wiz. I rarely see a totally balanced political viewpoint from anyone on here.
It certainly isnt just a 20’s trait, or even a
20’s trait. To be fair he mainly tries to balance out the one track posters but gets dogs abuse for doing so.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Let's hope that with the nearly 12,000 pharmacies that are ready to do 1.6 million a week plus all the doctors surgeries and other centres that are going to be used that we can actually far exceed the 2 million a week. It depends if we can get the vaccinations themselves. I want this to work, everybody does, but there is overwhelming evidence that the government have been reactionary rather than pro-active, as have many other countries, but things like the schools were there for everyone to see and the way it was done was ridiculous. Like I said, just because other countries are messing it up doesn't excuse us and I have no doubt Starmer and his lot would have been just the same. I just don't rate politicians very much. Look at the USA!!!

They also have legislation to keep lockdown going to the 31st March and I think they will go to that to allow the vaccines to really be effective in huge numbers. It's about keeping the rate down and vaccinations up.
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Starmer !! there, but for the grace of god, it could have been Diane Abbott and Co, Shudders.
 
Lala said:
I think the bias posting applies both ways Wiz. I rarely see a totally balanced political viewpoint from anyone on here.
It certainly isnt just a 20’s trait, or even a
20’s trait. To be fair he mainly tries to balance out the one track posters but gets dogs abuse for doing so.
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I'm not calling 20s out for this, just responding to your point. There are plenty of posters on both sides who don't offer much balance or reason to the debate.
 
Bit of Phil's Law required but posters who just like to argue with very little factual back up don't help. Especially when they get gratification from winding other posters up to the point they back off.
 
td53 said:
Or they're mirroring the indecision at the top? Is that the fault of the DFE or the teachers?

DFE chose to put out a statement at 8pm and go no advance warning to anyone. As far as the school are concerned, they were being threatened with legal action over closure the (school term) week before this and now they're supposed to read the runes and know about closures?

How?

Schools haven't had any inside info, they haven't had 'the nod'

Beneath all the rhetoric, that's one of the things the unions are raging about - that everything is last minute and schools aren't consulted or given any information and then can't plan properly.

I got the same text from my lads head, followed by texts at 8.30 saying 'sorry, plan changed'. I'm not angry at him - he's just trying to keep the school open and do what's asked of him but what's asked of him keeps changing constantly and also being released to the public at the same time as him.

Whilst I'm not saying some schools or teachers aren't shit, Boris must have his big moment at prime time for his big reveal when actually it could all be done so much better. That's the bigger incompetence. I'm not slagging them cos they're Tories, I'm slagging them because they don't communicate clearly and then we all suffer the chaos.
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They were able to tell their mates in the media around 5.00pm because everyone forecast exactly the same thing, but not the people directly affected.
 
Frustrated and rather fearful as we may be in this desperate,unprecedented and horrible pandemic and also with the government`s handling of it I think 20`s makes a fair point that we are trying to deal with an incredibly difficult situation and the fact that many governments from the leading countries in Europe such as Germany, which is generally regarded as the most efficiently governed country in Europe, and others are struggling to cope.

We all want our government to get everything right,but inevitably, like most other governments it will make mistakes and much though we hate any mistakes in this life and death crisis we should at least be grateful that we started vaccinating ahead of everyone else and in the end that is the only way out of this.

Let`s just try to all pull together not pull apart.
 
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catinstalbans said:
More cases in the UK yesterday than France, Italy and Germany combined. When it comes to incompetence, Boris Johnson truly is a world leader.
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catinstalbans said:
So when 20s excuses Boris Johnsons negligence by saying that It's the same in France and Germany he should be allowed to get away with such an untruth when the reality is that it is so much worse here!
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I just love it I really do. Guess what sunshine? This is a thread about schools. And guess what else? My links are about the problems in other countries regarding schools.

So tell me what untruth there is or where I've made a comparison on this thread with regards to Covid figures.
 
Hertsseasider said:
Attempting to justify this Governments actions by comparing them to another is a bit like saying, when Pool concede, it's OK because Sunderland have conceded as well. and Ipswich.
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Yep, another one like Cat spectacularly missing the point and getting it wrong.
Hertsseasider said:
Bit of Phil's Law required but posters who just like to argue with very little factual back up don't help. Especially when they get gratification from winding other posters up to the point they back off.
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I'd suggest there's a good few posters who either don't visit this side of the forum or who rarely post on it simply for having a different pov to the left wing viewpoint that is constantly peddled on here. I remember some-one the other day made an accusation about me which I challenged. The poster in question didn't even have the good grace to acknowledge my reply. Not the first time it's happened either. Pretty gutless if you ask me.
 
Wizaard said:
They were able to tell their mates in the media around 5.00pm because everyone forecast exactly the same thing, but not the people directly affected.
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Absolutely.

And here we have exams cancelled and no one with the foggiest idea what will replace them.

Again, something that could have been planned for.

What would it take? A few meetings between school heads associations, the DFE and ofqual in summer around a 'what if' scenario, based on avoiding the fuck up last time. It's not like Boris has to do those meetings himself. What does the DFE actually do all day? Genuinely?

What pisses me off is each person coping with the chaos is an individual, essentially on their own, whether they're a student who doesn't know how they get their grades or a business that doesn't know ever changing rules on support or how to trade and yet the government have an army of people working for them.

It's hard, yeah, of course it is, but the people coping with the shit communication are on their own, whereas boris has *literally thousands of people* working for him.

These heads are just one example of real people who don't have a civil service to draw upon on or experts advising them, they're just guessing and looking to government for clear guidance and not getting it.

And yet they get shit and we're all supposed to forgive Boris everything because he's tired.

Again, I'm not having a go cos he's a tory, I do have a certain measure of sympathy for the hand dealt but it's last minute, under planned and ill communicated stuff all the time.
 
20togo said:
Yep, another one like Cat spectacularly missing the point and getting it wrong.

I'd suggest there's a good few posters who either don't visit this side of the forum or who rarely post on it simply for having a different pov to the left wing viewpoint that is constantly peddled on here. I remember some-one the other day made an accusation about me which I challenged. The poster in question didn't even have the good grace to acknowledge my reply. Not the first time it's happened either. Pretty gutless if you ask me.
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I don't think there's a constant left wing bias. Actually, I think there's quite a lot of right wing sentiment and some left wing posters who are vocal.

But let's not argue about that, we'll be here all night and nothing is more boring than discussing how two people see a message board. It proves nothing.

I think you tend to see/notice what annoys you. Facebook did some testing on what makes people stay online and it wasn't what they like, it was what made them angry. We have a negative bias if you like. So we can hear three good things (which obvs depends on our perspective) and one bad and we perceive the world is bad, even though that's illogical.
 
Hertsseasider said:
Fair point but the poster in question does more to pull us apart IMHO. Anyway, he's big enough (sic) to argue his own case. As I'm sure he will.
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Yep, a Blackpool fan on a Blackpool forum challenging people about non football issues. Yep, pulling us apart? Jeez, you don't half write some nonsense.
 
Hertsseasider said:
Thanks for the constructive criticism. Without the constructive bit.
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Perhaps I thought I'd just reply in the same manner as you did in that other thread where I constructively pulled your comment apart. A post you've not even had the good grace to acknowledge. Why is that?
 
20togo said:
Perhaps I thought I'd just reply in the same manner as you did in that other thread where I constructively pulled your comment apart. A post you've not even had the good grace to acknowledge. Why is that?
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Apologies 20's, I'm having to deal with some far more important issues than your petty approach. But, in response, there is little point in debating with you so, and I'm sure you will get pleasure from this, I'm out. Have a nice evening.
 
The notion that this side of the board is "left wing" is utter bobbins. When I come over to read there are about half a dozen posters who could obviously be viewed as being "left" in their opinions. The majority of regular posters on here are predominantly "right wing" or "very right wing" and spend endless hours spitting feathers whenever one of those half a dozen post.
 
Hertsseasider said:
Apologies 20's, I'm having to deal with some far more important issues than your petty approach. But, in response, there is little point in debating with you so, and I'm sure you will get pleasure from this, I'm out. Have a nice evening.
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My approach on the other thread was far from petty,as you full well know because I'm sure you'll have read it.
 
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