Training ground update

I rather thought that the “4600” capacity for the new East Stand, was directly linked to replacing the current capacity of the East Stand.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Poolfoot is constantly busy, all day, every day. It must bring in quite a lot of cash. Also, the place is apparently buzzing. Ours will feel quite flat by comparison. A brown building, with hardly any BFC branding, and a few people rattling around on the odd days they are in. Players’ don’t even have a dedicated area to mingle, have their lunch etc.
There will be a decade of cash restrictions from SS while he pays it off. No attempt to engage with all the local community and turn those Man City supporters into BFC supporters. Makes no sense.
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How do you know all that Neil? I put forward an opinion and I get asked that question.
 
BISONS said:
I’d be staggered if his personal wealth is anywhere near £40m so to suggest he’s going to spend that sort of money brings questions.

We are kept fully in the dark so nobody knows a thing about what’s going on.
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Why don't you get in touch with him and ask to speak to his financial people because you're definitely entitled to know all about his personal finances.

Oh, and are you the same BISONS that gets called out on Twitter for never even going to a game?

What a whopping weapon you are!!
 
bfcpete said:
A detailed planning application was only made the middle of last year and there has been a subsequent update to take account of points or objections made in the consultation period. That was reported on in the Gazette before Christmas. It is now in the hands of the council to consider. We will know soon, one way or the other. Time for a bit more patience.
This is BFC's design and plans for a TG and, if it comes off, will show real ambition. There is no point in comparing us to Fleetwood or Fylde TGs as we should aspire to more ambition. And the basis of financing and running it is a matter for the owner/ club.
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Finally some sense. People on here moan constantly about little Blackpool and when ambition is shown they unbelievably want less ambition.

Some of these people are actually well educated and hold down important jobs. God knows how!
 
TheLuker said:
Why don't you get in touch with him and ask to speak to his financial people because you're definitely entitled to know all about his personal finances.

Oh, and are you the same BISONS that gets called out on Twitter for never even going to a game?

What a whopping weapon you are!!
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Thanks for your considered input.
 
BISONS said:
I’ve seen it. I’ve not been in it though.

Ok so let’s say he’s worth £200m - when he said he would personally finance the capital projects to the tune of £40m do you seriously believe he’s willing to use almost 25% of his entire wealth? Knowing he wouldn’t get it back?
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40m as a percentage of 200m is 20% not 25%.

It might be worth you taking GCSE maths because numbers really seem to get you all confused.
 
BISONS said:
Finally some sense. People on here moan constantly about little Blackpool and when ambition is shown they unbelievably want less ambition.

Some of these people are actually well educated and hold down important jobs. God knows how!
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Your now saying ambition is being shown but earlier in thread you said that Sadler doesn't have the money to pay for any of this!

You're all over the place BISONS!

One too many clouts on the head when you were terrifying away fans on Central Drive in the 80's?
 
BISONS said:
Ours does have something very similar, look at the plans. Not sure if our dome will be bigger than their dome though.

From the relatively short time he’s been running his fund ( looks very successful so far) I’d guess less than £50m personal wealth.

What would your guess be?
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A £50 million figure plucked out of the air, Avftt at its finest.
 
parker14 said:
I don't think Sadler has anywhere near the amount of money we'd like to think he has.
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Yet, as already said look at the 14.5m dividend he got from the subsidiary alone, look at the post on this thread saying how much the fund made from selling in Activision Blizzard.

On another thread it was said these Hedge funds typically take 2% of the total value of the fund every year and 20% of the profits as their fee.

How long has he been doing it?

When you think about all that a low amount seems daft.
 
bollieboy said:
The Glazers have not used their own money. The Glazers borrowed the money to buy Man Utd and put the debt incurred (from buying the club) against the club. The club has to pay interest payments on the debt out of income. The Glazers have also extracted money from the club via dividends rather than allowing profit being re-invested in the club.

Simon Sadler bought the club with his own money. Since then he has loaned money to club interest free. Also the one season, since SS bought the club, when the club has made money SS donated the tax benefit, from off-setting previous losses, to the club.

You must have absolutely no idea about football finances to compare SS with the Glazers.
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Nope stand by what I said and when he moves on we’ll see who he really is by his actions.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Of course it matters...
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I'd guess that like most football club owners, Sadler would loan the money in the first instance but again, as with most owners will probably end up writing the loan off.

The alternative to an owner loan would be an outside loan if the club could get one but if the club could the interest rate would be high given the risk associated with football. An outside loan would destroy the clubs cash flow though and wmcould quite possibly sink the club.

So, the only other alternative is that the owner and/or someone else gifts the money in the first instance.
 
JJpool said:
Yet, as already said look at the 14.5m dividend he got from the subsidiary alone, look at the post on this thread saying how much the fund made from selling in Activision Blizzard.

On another thread it was said these Hedge funds typically take 2% of the total value of the fund every year and 20% of the profits as their fee.

How long has he been doing it?

When you think about all that a low amount seems daft.
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20% of profit from a sale of the activision shares would be around £200m

I’m not sure that is right. 3% is £30m. That might be closer but then you have tax and bonuses for staff etc etc
 
BISONS said:
20% of profit from a sale of the activision shares would be around £200m

I’m not sure that is right. 3% is £30m. That might be closer but then you have tax and bonuses for staff etc etc
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A lot of speculation there. What's it based on? Do you work in finance?
 
BISONS said:
20% of profit from a sale of the activision shares would be around £200m

I’m not sure that is right. 3% is £30m. That might be closer but then you have tax and bonuses for staff etc etc
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I'm only saying what others have said on here, I don't know much about hedge funds. Very secretive by nature.

I think it was @TKL_Seasider and @bollieboy who commented in the past and understand these things far better. Maybe @cside As well seeing as he provided that info.

Maybe they can chip in on the estimated worth and also the new info on his apparent good year with the Activision shares and how that might play out in potential earnings?
 
1953 said:
So, the pronoun 'she' is a derogatory slur yet calling supporters 'mushrooms' and 'scabs' is OK by you (see other thread)
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I believe the poster was trying to use it as a derogatory term. I don't think "she" should be viewed as one.
Yes, using the term "mushroom" is very much acceptable in my view.
 
TheLuker said:
I'd guess that like most football club owners, Sadler would loan the money in the first instance but again, as with most owners will probably end up writing the loan off.

The alternative to an owner loan would be an outside loan if the club could get one but if the club could the interest rate would be high given the risk associated with football. An outside loan would destroy the clubs cash flow though and wmcould quite possibly sink the club.

So, the only other alternative is that the owner and/or someone else gifts the money in the first instance.
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The owner (or other funder(s)) might purchase the training ground and rent it to the Club I suppose.

As TAM points out, the facility might also be used by the community and be revenue generating.

Of course if there were to be a debt against the BFC accounts (as suggested by FCB) there would also be an asset value to be added to the accounts also… whether that would be realised in a subsequent sale is obviously a moot point, but the £12M capital expenditure doesn’t just get written off.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The owner (or other funder(s)) might purchase the training ground and rent it to the Club I suppose.

As TAM points out, the facility might also be used by the community and be revenue generating.

Of course if there were to be a debt against the BFC accounts (as suggested by FCB) there would also be an asset value to be added to the accounts also… whether that would be realised in a subsequent sale is obviously a moot point, but the £12M capital expenditure doesn’t just get written off.
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The point about the debt and the asset value is a really interesting one when it comes to football, particularly at our level.

Let's use simple numbers and let's assume that the club has no debt and is worth 10m.

Sadler builds a training ground for 12m using debt.

In theory you'd say that the club is now worth 22m with 12m of debt.

In practice though, in football, I don't think it's like that, partly because there are so many clubs with the infrastructure built that becomes available in distressed sales at proper knockdown prices.

I reckon the club would be worth maybe 16-18m with 12m of debt immediately after the TG is finished and within a couple of years the club would probably be worth 12-14m but would still likely be carrying most of the 12m debt.

It would be interesting to know how the accounts would value the asset though. I suspect that they would not depreciate the asset as fast as the market does and would value the new training ground at way more than the market value.

The point of all this is that it goes to show how dangerous the debt can be for the club which I guess was your point when you wrote earlier that it does matter where any funding is coming from.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The owner (or other funder(s)) might purchase the training ground and rent it to the Club I suppose.

As TAM points out, the facility might also be used by the community and be revenue generating.

Of course if there were to be a debt against the BFC accounts (as suggested by FCB) there would also be an asset value to be added to the accounts also… whether that would be realised in a subsequent sale is obviously a moot point, but the £12M capital expenditure doesn’t just get written off.
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There isn’t going to be a new training ground …The Emporers New Clothes , OOs retractable roof stadium .. All Bullshit
 
JJpool said:
I'm only saying what others have said on here, I don't know much about hedge funds. Very secretive by nature.

I think it was @TKL_Seasider and @bollieboy who commented in the past and understand these things far better. Maybe @cside As well seeing as he provided that info.

Maybe they can chip in on the estimated worth and also the new info on his apparent good year with the Activision shares and how that might play out in potential earnings?
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I don’t know either but 3% seems the norm following a quick dredge on Google.

I’m with BFCX3 in that it would be good to know where we’re at and how these projects will be financed.

This doesn’t mean I need to know his inside leg measurements, but as fans who have and still pour a large percentage of their lives investing in the club I feel we should be trusted with the knowledge of the whys and wherefores
 
BISONS said:
I don’t know either but 3% seems the norm following a quick dredge on Google.

I’m with BFCX3 in that it would be good to know where we’re at and how these projects will be financed.

This doesn’t mean I need to know his inside leg measurements, but as fans who have and still pour a large percentage of their lives investing in the club I feel we should be trusted with the knowledge of the whys and wherefores
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I thought we'd established that you don't go to games though! Even if those of us that invest in the club were entitled to know more, you're one of the loudmouth that don't contribute so you're entitled to nothing.
 
TheLuker said:
The point about the debt and the asset value is a really interesting one when it comes to football, particularly at our level.

Let's use simple numbers and let's assume that the club has no debt and is worth 10m.

Sadler builds a training ground for 12m using debt.

In theory you'd say that the club is now worth 22m with 12m of debt.

In practice though, in football, I don't think it's like that, partly because there are so many clubs with the infrastructure built that becomes available in distressed sales at proper knockdown prices.

I reckon the club would be worth maybe 16-18m with 12m of debt immediately after the TG is finished and within a couple of years the club would probably be worth 12-14m but would still likely be carrying most of the 12m debt.

It would be interesting to know how the accounts would value the asset though. I suspect that they would not depreciate the asset as fast as the market does and would value the new training ground at way more than the market value.

The point of all this is that it goes to show how dangerous the debt can be for the club which I guess was your point when you wrote earlier that it does matter where any funding is coming from.
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I don’t doubt the saleable value of the club might not increase by the cost of the TG asset itself, although I think you may be over-egging the pudding a bit when talking about clubs that are in a so called ‘distressed state’ …

In most cases those clubs will have debt that may need to be settled by a new owner, player contracts may have been run down, Stadium and Training Grounds may be in a poor state of repair, separated from or not owned by the Club. Then you may have a disgruntled or eroded fanbase too.

Ultimately it’s like any business or property, a potential owner is going to look at the state of the business and see what level additional investment might be required and then base an offer with that in mind….. If the Ckub already has a tip top training facility, then that’s money that doesn’t need to be expended… likewise a Stadium
 
TheLuker said:
What do you mean by "when he moves on we'll see who he really is by his actions"?
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When he sells up and accounts are settled you will know how altruistic Sadler is in regard to BFC. In regard to your earlier gift comment. No need to gift which makes life more complicated. Better to sponsor. Think scale but it will be very interesting to see how city circumvented ffp. Other clubs will do a variant but hopefully not as clumsily as Everton.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I don’t doubt the saleable value of the club might not increase by the cost of the TG asset itself, although I think you may be over-egging the pudding a bit when talking about clubs that are in a so called ‘distressed state’ …

In most cases those clubs will have debt that may need to be settled by a new owner, player contracts may have been run down, Stadium and Training Grounds may be in a poor state of repair, separated from or not owned by the Club. Then you may have a disgruntled or eroded fanbase too.

Ultimately it’s like any business or property, a potential owner is going to look at the state of the business and see what level additional investment might be required and then base an offer with that in mind….. If the Ckub already has a tip top training facility, then that’s money that doesn’t need to be expended… likewise a Stadium
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New owner will measure assets and liabilities. If set up as currently planned tg more likely to be classed as a liability as arguably not generating income. Timing will be everything because the day of reckoning for British football is coming closer with the dilution of talent base around the world as the competition for eyeballs and customers intensifies as countries develop their own leagues.
 
Theoneandonly said:
When he sells up and accounts are settled you will know how altruistic Sadler is in regard to BFC. In regard to your earlier gift comment. No need to gift which makes life more complicated. Better to sponsor. Think scale but it will be very interesting to see how city circumvented ffp. Other clubs will do a variant but hopefully not as clumsily as Everton.
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How altruistic are you expecting Sadler to be?

(I'll ignore your comment on sponsorship as in the same sentence you discredited it by mentioning the issues ay two Prem clubs).
 
Theoneandonly said:
New owner will measure assets and liabilities. If set up as currently planned tg more likely to be classed as a liability as arguably not generating income. Timing will be everything because the day of reckoning for British football is coming closer with the dilution of talent base around the world as the competition for eyeballs and customers intensifies as countries develop their own leagues.
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What exactly are you trying to say?
 
JJpool said:
You made that point to yourself...
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No idea what that means and stand by my original comment whilst validating your comments. The Glazers have used every trick in the book and did so from the start. Just selling a portion to R covered their purchase price and then some.
 
TheLuker said:
How altruistic are you expecting Sadler to be?

(I'll ignore your comment on sponsorship as in the same sentence you discredited it by mentioning the issues ay two Prem clubs).
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The first question makes no sense as I don’t know the man. Sponsorship if used judiciously is a perfectly fine way of helping your club. The charges for Everton and upcoming for city focused/will focus on many areas. I would imagine with city it will involve cross pollination with their sister clubs and payments for transfers. Moving forward I imagine more players will become corporations to ring fence assets.
 
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